Man Arrested at Alaska State Fair With Impeach Obama Sign

[qh4dotcom]

YouTube - LaRouche supporter assaulted by Alaska State Fair Security (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ppBZM88mHvQ)

[Monarchist]

LaRoucheite, huh? Good.

[james1906]

Sad.

It just took that one jackboot to flash his badge and everyone backed off. The poor man was reduced to be given water like a wounded bird.

[brandon]

LaRoucheite, huh? Good.

"First they came for the Communists, but I was not a Communist so I did not speak out.
Then they came for the Socialists and the Trade Unionists, but I was neither, so I did not speak out.
Then they came for the Jews, but I was not a Jew so I did not speak out.
And when they came for me, there was no one left to speak out for me."

[Libertydad88]

"Isn't anybody going to help me?"

I pray everyday(to Aqua Buddha) that one day innocent people won't need to be asking that question anymore...

So sad...

[Uriel999]

They just keep pushing. People retaliate with sarcasm now, how long until they push back? Seriously, we will be facing violent riots in the next few years as the Depression worsens and tempers flare more. This is not a call to violence, but a stark warning, be careful at political rallies y'all. They could become dangerous. :(

[Spider-Man]

If I had been there, they would have to take me down with him.

[brandon]

How about a real discussion about how a bystander should handle this? Maybe this deserves it's own thread?

If I was there my reaction would have been to hurl a long string of expletives at the pig from about 2 inches away, and possibly physically attack them in an attempt to free that man. Obviously I'd end up arrested with an array of serious charges against me....unless everyone there formed a mob and got my back.

So how do we deal with this type of shit? How can we fight against the most powerful gang of all?

[CaseyJones]

LaRoucheite, huh? Good.

:mad:

[Monarchist]

:mad:

If you had heard "Oh, like Lyndon LaRouche?" when you explained you were a libertarian as many times as I have you'd feel the same way.

Besides, the video doesn't show the guy doing things like accosting toddlers and accusing them of being agents of the British Empire, as LaRouchies are wont to do, which led to security being dispatched on him.

[t0rnado]

LaRoucheite, huh? Good.

I hate LaRouche cult members as well, but to suggest that the stagnation of their free speech is good is just retarded.

"I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - Voltaire

[puppetmaster]

How about a real discussion about how a bystander should handle this? Maybe this deserves it's own thread?

If I was there my reaction would have been to hurl a long string of expletives at the pig from about 2 inches away, and possibly physically attack them in an attempt to free that man. Obviously I'd end up arrested with an array of serious charges against me....unless everyone there formed a mob and got my back.

So how do we deal with this type of shit? How can we fight against the most powerful gang of all?


well the truth is there is strength in numbers, but you never know if you have the numbers in that situation until you go past the point of no return. Things like this need to be planned in detail in advance....and you must surround yourselves with ones who do not fear sacrifice

[nate895]

How about a real discussion about how a bystander should handle this? Maybe this deserves it's own thread?

If I was there my reaction would have been to hurl a long string of expletives at the pig from about 2 inches away, and possibly physically attack them in an attempt to free that man. Obviously I'd end up arrested with an array of serious charges against me....unless everyone there formed a mob and got my back.

So how do we deal with this type of shit? How can we fight against the most powerful gang of all?

Or you could act like a gentleman and, assuming the police action was unjustified, ask the officer what his infraction was. When the officer cannot provide an answer, protest that the man was exercising his liberty to speak his mind on an issue and go from there. There is no need to be an insulting, petulant little punk in the face of the abuse of authority. That makes you no better than the corrupt police you oppose.

[DirtMcGirt]

Larouche supporters were handing out their stuff outside of Harrisburg PA the other day...

http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2010/08/traveling_anti-obama_petitione.html

Excerpt-
A group of Lyndon LaRouche supporters were in front of the Lemoyne Post Office on Market St. this afternoon protesting President Obama.
Joe Billington, a volunteer for LaRouche's political action committee, handed out fliers to people who walked by the post office and spoke about LaRouche and the reasons he felt Obama should be impeached.


Postmaster Rich Pinamonti said the group was allowed to set up their display outside the Post Office because they were within their first amendment rights. He said the group had checked with the West Shore Police and his supervisor told him that the display was legal as long as they didn't block the sidewalk or harass patrons.

He said he received a few complaints, but there was nothing he could do.

[Mini-Me]

Or you could act like a gentleman and, assuming the police action was unjustified, ask the officer what his infraction was. When the officer cannot provide an answer, protest that the man was exercising his liberty to speak his mind on an issue and go from there. There is no need to be an insulting, petulant little punk in the face of the abuse of authority. That makes you no better than the corrupt police you oppose.

Saying it makes you "no better" is going a little far, don't you think? ;)

That said though, you're right that asking semi-politely should always be the first resort. However, the real question is what to do when your protests go ignored.

[t0rnado]

Or you could act like a gentleman and, assuming the police action was unjustified, ask the officer what his infraction was. When the officer cannot provide an answer, protest that the man was exercising his liberty to speak his mind on an issue and go from there. There is no need to be an insulting, petulant little punk in the face of the abuse of authority. That makes you no better than the corrupt police you oppose.

More like, "Or you could act like a coward.."

Freeing a man from the clutches of thugs doesn't make you the same as those thugs. Bowing down to authority and acting like a bitch doesn't work.

[YumYum]

If a big group was at a family reunion in a public park and this guy came up with his billboard and was yelling about impeaching Obama, would the people attending the reunion be within their rights to call the police?

[nate895]

Saying it makes you "no better" is going a little far, don't you think? ;)

I don't really think so. To me, the situation is comparable to a war in which one side was barbaric and started the squabble by killing innocents. If the other side responded in kind, then they would be reduced to the level of their opponents.


That said though, you're right that asking semi-politely should always be the first resort. However, the real question is what to do when your protests go ignored.

When your protests go ignored, you ought to be willing to go to jail along with the man by being a thorn in their side. It is not necessarily that you should not annoy the corrupt authorities, it is that you should annoy the authorities in such a way as you would not be annoying if they are not corrupt. Only corrupt barbarians respond to polite, yet assertive, protests by throwing you in a jail cell or worse.

[t0rnado]

If a big group was at a family reunion in a public park and this guy came up with his billboard and was yelling about impeaching Obama, would the people attending the reunion be within their rights to call the police?

They can call whoever they want. The police shouldn't be able to acost someone who wasn't impeding upon anyone's rights.

[nate895]

More like, "Or you could act like a coward.."

Freeing a man from the clutches of thugs doesn't make you the same as those thugs. Bowing down to authority and acting like a bitch doesn't work.

I think my previous post clarifies my statement. I am just as willing to go to jail, or even die, in defense of my beliefs as anyone else on planet earth. It is just the fact that I think it should be done in a polite manner that tries to avoid violence if it is not necessary. I think that is one thing that separates conservatives like myself from libertarians. We might believe similar things about government and willing to act on them, but conservative-minded folk such as myself behave in a different fashion when it comes to tyrannical offenses.

Violence is not necessary yet. Rather, we ought to be a thorn in the side, protesting at every turn in a reasoned manner.

[JK/SEA]

2 things. I heard the security guy say he didn't PAY to get in the park?...was this a local fair with paid admission? ...

and if so, then this guy must have paid to get in, and why wasn't he stopped at the gate with his LARGE sign?

[sratiug]

Snowballs. And water balloons. Then rocks, etc...

[AtomiC]

If all the bystanders just idly standing around decided to take action and free the man from the oppressors who assaulted him, this would not have happened.

[Seraphim]

If all the bystanders just idly standing around decided to take action and free the man from the oppressors who assaulted him, this would not have happened.

Easy answer:

People are socialized to fear THE MAN.

[Petar]

Too bad the annoying LaDouchite didn't get tazed.

[Seraphim]

Too bad the annoying LaDouchite didn't get tazed.

Really :confused::confused::rolleyes:

[Petar]

Really :confused::confused::rolleyes:

Yeah, except the only problem is that it may have made him feel like even more of a persecuted "martyr/hero".

There are ways to practice civil disobedience without truly creating a public disturbance (screaming your head off like lunatic), but this guy really needs to learn something about subtlety I think.

Screw him.

[free1]

It looks like he was on private property, but it may come out in court that the fairgrounds are State owned, and that means it's really public property, held in trust for use by the people.

It's hard to tell what really happened, I hope this guy can get a good legal group to back him. I think they went a bit too far with the arrest. They could have waited for the cops to get there instead of pushing the guy to the ground.

Any more info would be appreciated.

Maybe someone out there can help by doing the research into the Fairgrounds and who owns it.

[Mini-Me]

I don't really think so. To me, the situation is comparable to a war in which one side was barbaric and started the squabble by killing innocents. If the other side responded in kind, then they would be reduced to the level of their opponents.
Of course, but your war scenario is comparing like actions (and specifically, actions taken against innocents on both sides), whereas your previous scenario was not. I mean, I just cannot agree that being and "insulting, petulant little punk" really rises anywhere near the level of someone abusing their authority and unjustly arresting people with physical force.


When your protests go ignored, you ought to be willing to go to jail along with the man by being a thorn in their side. It is not necessarily that you should not annoy the corrupt authorities, it is that you should annoy the authorities in such a way as you would not be annoying if they are not corrupt. Only corrupt barbarians respond to polite, yet assertive, protests by throwing you in a jail cell or worse.

I mostly agree, but it doesn't cover every scenario though. For instance, the cops could literally ignore you, and when you follow them to continue your verbal protests, they get out the billy clubs and either beat you down or threaten to do so if you don't stop "harrassing" and "intimidating" them. Do you persist? If they attack you, do you defend yourself [possibly unsuccessfully, raising the stakes even higher]? When the cops are lawless, the stakes are not always as low as just being unjustly arrested along with the other guy and being released the next day...and when the stakes go up, the appropriate response starts to become less clear.

[libertarian4321]

If that guy was just standing there with the sign, they should not have removed him- I can't tell from the video if he was disturbing people before the rent-a-cops got there.

However, if he was screaming and getting in everyone's face, scaring kids and the like while people were just trying to have a picnic lunch and enjoy the fair, they were right to remove him as he was surely violating local laws- disturbing the peace, harassment, assault, or whatever.

[james1906]

If that guy was just standing there with the sign, they should not have removed him- I can't tell from the video if he was disturbing people before the rent-a-cops got there.

However, if he was screaming and getting in everyone's face, scaring kids and the like while people were just trying to have a picnic lunch and enjoy the fair, they were right to remove him as he was surely violating local laws- disturbing the peace, harassment, assault, or whatever.

That doesn't look likely as people were not supporting the jackboots in subduing him.

[QueenB4Liberty]

Yeah, except the only problem is that it may have made him feel like even more of a persecuted "martyr/hero".

There are ways to practice civil disobedience without truly creating a public disturbance (screaming your head off like lunatic), but this guy really needs to learn something about subtlety I think.

Screw him.

I agree, Petar!

[devil21]

That was tough to watch and it's even tougher to read comments supporting the trampling of this man's right to free speech and right to not be attacked by a bunch of redneck rent-a-cops for voicing his opinion.

How can anyone honestly support the response to his protest and still claim to be a supporter of Liberty and Constitutional rights? I don't understand it...though I know there's plenty of state-worshipping trolls on RPF these days. Sure, he could have been less vocal but somehow I doubt his words were what caught the attention of the rent-a-cops. His giant sign calling for the impeachment of Obama did and someone didn't like his message and decided to silence him.

This is why EVERYONE should be armed at all times. Only one person tried to help that man. The rest stand around watching and shouting. The thugs know that shouting makes no difference. Go on ahead and shout while we stomp on this man's freedoms right in front of you. You'll be next. That video made me angry.

[BlackTerrel]

This is disturbing. What was he arrested for?

[MsDoodahs]

This is disturbing. What was he arrested for?

Not sure - maybe an unpopular opinion?

[Cowlesy]

That was absolutely disgusting.

I don't know all the lawyer/legal crap behind it (whether it was on private property or in a public right-a-way etc), but I'd say his first amendment was violated pretty severely.

[Old Ducker]

at least those pigs allowed that kind woman to give him water.

[Catatonic]

This is disturbing. What was he arrested for?

The state fair's press releases says he had a gun, which they did not allow as its private property, and he refused to leave.

[libertybrewcity]

Apparently the state fair grounds are private property, at least according to the state fair officials. And apparently he was causing a disturbance by waving the banner in people's faces and such..

http://www.ktva.com/ci_15916415?source=most_viewed

So I guess security had the right to ask him to leave even if he didn't do anything wrong.

[libertybrewcity]

There a was another person that had to be "taken down" because he had a weapon. Two different incidents.

[Jeremy]

Private property.

[JK/SEA]

From the article......


"He was just exercising just that, his freedom of speech," said Erin Hill. "They let him in with the banner that's in your face and then turned around and tried to stop him after they let him after he paid admission."

[free1]

From the article......


"He was just exercising just that, his freedom of speech," said Erin Hill. "They let him in with the banner that's in your face and then turned around and tried to stop him after they let him after he paid admission."

They probably let him in with what looked like a big stick, he probably had the sign rolled up. Why they let people in with a big stick is a good question. He also had a crutch if you look.

I hope this isn't the last we hear about this. Do we know what has happened since?

[oyarde]

Anybody know what types of things they show off at the state fair in Alaska ?

[nate895]

Anybody know what types of things they show off at the state fair in Alaska ?

Only the finest permafrost in all the world!!!

[oyarde]

Only the finest permafrost in all the world!!!

Well , I have only been there twice , once in the winter. The growing season would have to be pretty short .

[silentshout]

Wow, sounds exactly like what used to happen in the Bush years. nothing has changed, except that Obama did allow protestors at his speeches, rather than keeping them in "free speech zones."