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Anti Federalist
08-27-2010, 03:16 PM
This is looking like shit, right out of the gate. :mad:



Police Shoot And Kill Spokane Preacher

Web Reporter
5:48 PM PDT, August 26, 2010

http://www.q13fox.com/news/kcpq-082610-preacher-killed,0,4730091.story

Spokane Valley - A Spokane Valley Baptist preacher has been shot and killed by a police officer.

Police say Pastor Wayne Scott Creach, was shot sometime late Wednesday night during a confrontation with an officer in an unmarked patrol car.

Police say the officer had parked near the plant nursery Creach operated in response to concerns over late night car prowls. Creach, who lived next door to his nursery approached the officer and sometime during the confrontation the officer fired his duty weapon.

Creach served as pastor of Greenacres Baptist Church for 40 years.

Detectives say a handgun was found on the ground near Creach.

Kludge
08-27-2010, 03:21 PM
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2012742955_apwaspokanevalleyshooting.html

Sheriff urges no jumping to conclusions

Spokane County Sheriff Ozzie Knezovich urged residents not to jump to conclusions about an incident in which a police officer shot and killed a 74-year-old pastor this week.

The Associated Press
SPOKANE, Wash. —
Spokane County Sheriff Ozzie Knezovich urged residents not to jump to conclusions about an incident in which a police officer shot and killed a 74-year-old pastor this week.

A Spokane Valley officer shot Pastor Scott Creach in the parking lot of Creach's business late Wednesday night. According to Creach's family, he heard what he thought was a burglar just before 11:00 p.m., grabbed his gun and went outside to investigate. His wife reports hearing a shout followed by gunshots.

Knezovich and Spokane Valley Mayor Tom Towey on Friday expressed their condolences to the Creach family at the press conference outside he Spokane County Courthouse.






http://www.king5.com/news/local/Family-of-killed-pastor-irate-over-lack-of-answers-101678538.html

Family of killed pastor irate over lack of answers

SPOKANE VALLEY -- Family members of a killed Spokane Valley pastor are demanding answers as to why he was shot by a Spokane Valley Police officer.

KREM 2 News cameras were rolling early Thursday morning as two of the sons of Scott Creach shouted their frustrations at a Spokane County Sheriff's deputy.

Creach, 74, was sleeping inside his home on the 14,000 block of East 4th Avenue, when he thought he heard a burglar. Family members say he grabbed his gun, and went outside to investigate. Creach lives next door to his business, The Plant Farm, a local nursery.

Officers say a Spokane Valley Police officer was responding to a call for increased patrols in the area. Officers say there was some sort of confrontation between Creach and the officer in The Plant Farm parking lot, and Creach was shot in the chest. He died on scene.

Shortly after investigators arrived on scene of the officer-involved shooting, KREM 2 News cameras captured a heated discussion between two of Creach's family members and a Spokane County Sheriff's deputy.

One man, apparently Creach's son, shouted, "My father got out of his bed responded to what he thought was a burglar and took a gun with him. he challenged that vehicle in his parking lot and subsequently a deputy sheriff shot him and killed him!"

The men demanded answers from deputies, and claimed they weren't getting any.

KREM 2 News also heard one man shout, "You can't even tell the woman her husband is dead, you don't call emergency personnel for him, he lays there in the parking lot while he's dying, it's ridiculous!"

Officers say the police officer was in an unmarked vehicle, but he was wearing a standard uniform.

The officer has not been identified and was placed on paid administrative leave.

olehounddog
08-27-2010, 03:24 PM
This is looking like shit, right out of the gate. :mad:

Detectives say a handgun was found on the ground near Creach.

Who'd ever thunk it. BS:mad:
Excuse me for jumping jumpng to conclusions without proof.

Anti Federalist
08-27-2010, 03:27 PM
Yeah this is starting to look really bad.

I'm not ready to cry havoc just yet, but it sure seems like this is another case of a mundane being gunned down for daring to approach an enforcer.

oyarde
08-27-2010, 03:27 PM
This is Washington , so there could ba a secret directive where the police start shooting teachers so there is less competition for the pension money that is not there.:D

Dr.3D
08-27-2010, 03:29 PM
So the preacher confronts an unmarked car and gets shot by it's occupant. Hummmm.....

Something is wrong with this story.

nate895
08-27-2010, 03:31 PM
This is ridiculous. I'm actually afraid of cops these days, and I don't even break traffic laws, let alone anything really serious.

oyarde
08-27-2010, 03:31 PM
I would question why the cops were using an unmarked car if the purpose of them being there was to scare off kids from parking or whatever.Why would they not use a marked car ?

Anti Federalist
08-27-2010, 03:36 PM
This is ridiculous. I'm actually afraid of cops these days, and I don't even break traffic laws, let alone anything really serious.

As well you should be, let me dig up an old thread that shows how much more dangerous a random encounter with a cop, vs. just an average person, is.

:mad:

Any encounter with a state enforcer is, statistically, more liable to result in your last minute on this earth than it is with just anybody.

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=254109

Anti Federalist
08-27-2010, 03:38 PM
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=254109

Fox McCloud
08-27-2010, 03:56 PM
I'd like to know more about this...but if the Pastor did nothing, I hope the cops are nailed for murder....'course, that'll never happen...

Golding
08-27-2010, 04:11 PM
If it were the other way around, you know the news would be reporting all about a "cop killer" on the loose.

But when the police kill someone, it's complete damage control with "Don't jump to conclusions".

You mean like how this police officer is a scumbag murderer? Too late.

aGameOfThrones
08-27-2010, 04:12 PM
The officer has not been identified and was placed on paid administrative leave.

They always get paid for killing...

:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

fedup100
08-27-2010, 04:17 PM
I'd like to know more about this...but if the Pastor did nothing, I hope the cops are nailed for murder....'course, that'll never happen...

The dead man did do something, he approached a plain wrapper while carrying his weapon. This is an automatic death sentence today, only enforcers should have a weapon, all else are just targets.

nate895
08-27-2010, 04:19 PM
They always get paid for killing...

:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

Normal people call that "vacation."

Zippyjuan
08-27-2010, 04:19 PM
From the preacher's perspective: Thinks he hears a burglar, grabs his gun and goes outside to investigate. Sees people in an unmarked car so possibly aproaches it (no details so speculatoin here).

Cops view: They are watching the area based on previous problems. See a man in the dark aproach them with a gun. Probably yell at the man to drop it. He doesn't know for sure if they are police, they don't know if he is a criminal.

A tragedy- not a murder.

How would you react if you were either of these two people?

nate895
08-27-2010, 04:25 PM
From the preacher's perspective: Thinks he hears a burglar, grabs his gun and goes outside to investigate. Sees people in an unmarked car so possibly aproaches it (no details so speculatoin here).

Cops view: They are watching the area based on previous problems. See a man in the dark aproach them with a gun. Probably yell at the man to drop it. He doesn't know for sure if they are police, they don't know if he is a criminal.

A tragedy- not a murder.

How would you react if you were either of these two people?

Very simple for the cop: Flashlight on the individual, and say "identify yourself." This would (1) blind the suspect to prevent him from getting an accurate shot if he is, in fact, a criminal, and (2) cause the patrolling civilian to drop his weapon since he would already know he was at a disadvantage even if the cop is actually a criminal. This is a rational, relatively safe way of handling the situation from all perspectives, and probably would have ended with a "sorry, officer" in a sane, rational world. We don't live in a sane and rational world anymore.

aGameOfThrones
08-27-2010, 04:27 PM
From the preacher's perspective: Thinks he hears a burglar, grabs his gun and goes outside to investigate. Sees people in an unmarked car so possibly aproaches it (no details so speculatoin here).

Cops view: They are watching the area based on previous problems. See a man in the dark aproach them with a gun. Probably yell at the man to drop it. He doesn't know for sure if they are police, they don't know if he is a criminal.

A tragedy- not a murder.

How would you react if you were either of these two people?


Who was on whose property(or close to it)? I missed that part.

The preacher has a gun and has restraint and caution.
The Pirate has a gun has no restraint or caution.

The Pirate gets a paid vacation!

oyarde
08-27-2010, 04:27 PM
From the preacher's perspective: Thinks he hears a burglar, grabs his gun and goes outside to investigate. Sees people in an unmarked car so possibly aproaches it (no details so speculatoin here).

Cops view: They are watching the area based on previous problems. See a man in the dark aproach them with a gun. Probably yell at the man to drop it. He doesn't know for sure if they are police, they don't know if he is a criminal.

A tragedy- not a murder.

How would you react if you were either of these two people?

Marked car takes care of all of that.

Zippyjuan
08-27-2010, 04:40 PM
Very simple for the cop: Flashlight on the individual, and say "identify yourself." This would (1) blind the suspect to prevent him from getting an accurate shot if he is, in fact, a criminal, and (2) cause the patrolling civilian to drop his weapon since he would already know he was at a disadvantage even if the cop is actually a criminal. This is a rational, relatively safe way of handling the situation from all perspectives, and probably would have ended with a "sorry, officer" in a sane, rational world. We don't live in a sane and rational world anymore.

If you were checking up on a possible prowler and somebody flashed a light in your face would you stand there and see what happens, drop your gun, or shoot? You don't know if the person with the light is also armed.

Zippyjuan
08-27-2010, 04:41 PM
Marked car takes care of all of that.
That would have helped, certainly. But in this case it was unmarked so he had no idea who was in it.

Anti Federalist
08-27-2010, 04:46 PM
From the preacher's perspective: Thinks he hears a burglar, grabs his gun and goes outside to investigate. Sees people in an unmarked car so possibly aproaches it (no details so speculatoin here).

Cops view: They are watching the area based on previous problems. See a man in the dark aproach them with a gun. Probably yell at the man to drop it. He doesn't know for sure if they are police, they don't know if he is a criminal.

A tragedy- not a murder.

How would you react if you were either of these two people?

From every report I've seen so far, there was some sort of "altercation".

This indicates to me that there was a period of time in which to IFF (Identify, Friend or Foe).

If you were approached by a homeowner with a firearm, after trespassing, uninvited, on that homeowners property and fired, killing the homeowner, you would be prosecuted for murder, or at the very least, negligent homicide.

Unless you have a spiffy government uniform, then it becomes a tragedy.

nate895
08-27-2010, 04:47 PM
If you were checking up on a possible prowler and somebody flashed a light in your face would you stand there and see what happens, drop your gun, or shoot? You don't know if the person with the light is also armed.

I would drop my weapon because, even if I were to shoot, I would almost certainly miss due to blindness (have you ever had a bright flashlight shown to your face at night?), and holding my gun or shooting will most likely only get me killed. It is almost certain death with holding the gun, or a high chance of survival. Most prowlers don't carry bright flashlights and shine them in people's faces, either, so if you incorporate that into the scenario, it is certain death with gun vs. almost certain life if I drop it.

oyarde
08-27-2010, 05:42 PM
If the whole purpose of the police presence was to prevent tresspassing , I see no clear reason that a marked car was not being used.

squarepusher
08-27-2010, 07:08 PM
give this cop a paid vacation, raise, promotion, honors, etc... well done religion is the enemy of the state correct?

tjeffersonsghost
08-27-2010, 07:20 PM
Jonathan Ayers....

james1906
08-27-2010, 07:27 PM
and was placed on paid administrative leave

Cops have the best benefits since you can shoot a customer and get paid vacation time.

TC95
08-27-2010, 07:31 PM
This infuriates me. That cop better repent cuz Judgement Day is coming and God's not gonna be happy. :mad:

I'm not saying that just because the murdered was a preacher. God hates all murder. This kind of crap just really ticks me off!

JK/SEA
08-27-2010, 07:31 PM
Cop shot the wrong pastor...

http://www.king5.com/news/local/Neighbor-dogs-killed-twice-by-pastor--101658948.html

Baptist
08-27-2010, 08:16 PM
Cops are evil scumbags. Plain and simple.

oyarde
08-27-2010, 08:40 PM
Cops are evil scumbags. Plain and simple.

There are likely some who are not . I think it wise that if you have to speak to one to assume he is though.

Golding
08-27-2010, 10:42 PM
From the preacher's perspective: Thinks he hears a burglar, grabs his gun and goes outside to investigate. Sees people in an unmarked car so possibly aproaches it (no details so speculatoin here).

Cops view: They are watching the area based on previous problems. See a man in the dark aproach them with a gun. Probably yell at the man to drop it. He doesn't know for sure if they are police, they don't know if he is a criminal.

A tragedy- not a murder.

How would you react if you were either of these two people?Obviously the preacher won't react since he's dead.

But if I were the cop, I would be questioning the very reason for being stationed in a supposed trouble area, in an unmarked car no less. If it is such a trouble area, how is anyone to know that the cop isn't one of those people who do cause the trouble? If anything, his presence has made the area that much more troublesome. And of course, if I were the cop I would be absolutely ashamed of myself for killing an innocent person. Literally, this cop should be ashamed.

How much of a "trouble area" is Spokane, anyhow? Does it really necessitate stakeouts over there? Isn't it a fairly big tech area?

jclay2
08-28-2010, 12:04 AM
The fact of the matter is if the roles were reversed so that the cop was just a low slave citizen, they would be at a minimum facing some serious jail time.

Danke
08-28-2010, 12:07 AM
//

Ekrub
08-28-2010, 12:35 AM
Spokane isn't a big tech area, more like a giant suburb. We have our rough spots around town.

And while I agree that this was totally unnecessary and the Spokane police department should fire the sob, I think that the cop hating on this board is a little much. I have my issues with "Spokane's finest" but they are not all blood thirsty scumbags. If anything, they are ticket thirsty scumbags.

tremendoustie
08-28-2010, 12:48 AM
Spokane isn't a big tech area, more like a giant suburb. We have our rough spots around town.

And while I agree that this was totally unnecessary and the Spokane police department should fire the sob, I think that the cop hating on this board is a little much. I have my issues with "Spokane's finest" but they are not all blood thirsty scumbags. If anything, they are ticket thirsty scumbags.

Forget firing, the sob should go to jail for a long time.

Cops are not mostly bloodthirsty, but the popular police culture and training these days imbues them with the attitude that their lives are worth infinitely more than the peons -- that they have a right to intrude on anyone's property or anyone's home for the flimsiest of reasons, often swat style with no knock, and if anyone so much as blinks wrong, they'll get killed.

Ekrub
08-28-2010, 12:56 AM
Forget firing, the sob should go to jail for a long time.

Cops are not mostly bloodthirsty, but the popular police culture and training these days imbues them with the attitude that their lives are worth infinitely more than the peons -- that they have a right to intrude on anyone's property or anyone's home for the flimsiest of reasons, often swat style with no knock, and if anyone so much as blinks wrong, they'll get killed.

Well, I think he should get a trial no doubt. But in the mean time, the SPD should fire him, not put him on paid adminstrative leave or whatever.

And I would agree with that. I just see comments like "All cops are blood thirsty scumbags" and would have to say that comments like those are extremely naive.

Golding
08-28-2010, 01:09 AM
Spokane isn't a big tech area, more like a giant suburb. We have our rough spots around town.

And while I agree that this was totally unnecessary and the Spokane police department should fire the sob, I think that the cop hating on this board is a little much. I have my issues with "Spokane's finest" but they are not all blood thirsty scumbags. If anything, they are ticket thirsty scumbags.I've only driven by Spokane, so I legitimately didn't know. I think I was confusing it with Redmond, though.

I'm not among those that just hate cops in general, and have met plenty that I'm fine with on a personal level. I try not to generalize, but I tend toward caution when it comes to the police. Little "whoopsie" moments that earn them paid vacations while things blow over happen too often for comfort. What I don't like is the "protect our own" strategy that tends to take place in spite of the public, especially when it's plenty clear that no other member of the public would be so fortunate to get that kind of treatment. This cop acted in a way that cost an individual - concerned about his own safety - his life. That the officer will not be dealt any real justice for his actions is an absolute shame.

Ekrub
08-28-2010, 01:16 AM
Microsoft and nintendo are on the other side of the state. Spokane is in eastern Washington.

But I have no problem with reasonable criticism of cops. It's the irrational hate and name calling that I have issues with. And it's not so much that I disagree, more that I feel that it hinders the movement.

SnowCrash
08-28-2010, 01:19 AM
I would drop my weapon because, even if I were to shoot, I would almost certainly miss due to blindness (have you ever had a bright flashlight shown to your face at night?), and holding my gun or shooting will most likely only get me killed.

I'd most likely retain my weapon and seek cover.

nate895
08-28-2010, 01:24 AM
I'd most likely retain my weapon and seek cover.

I assumed that was not a viable option. If cover was a viable option, the discussion can continue from behind cover, or become a firefight if criminals are involved.

A Son of Liberty
08-28-2010, 04:05 AM
From the preacher's perspective: Thinks he hears a burglar, grabs his gun and goes outside to investigate. Sees people in an unmarked car so possibly aproaches it (no details so speculatoin here).

Cops view: They are watching the area based on previous problems. See a man in the dark aproach them with a gun. Probably yell at the man to drop it. He doesn't know for sure if they are police, they don't know if he is a criminal.

A tragedy- not a murder.

How would you react if you were either of these two people?

Of course we'll never hear the preacher's side of this story, but even in your scenario, this is not a tragedy - it's still murder. The cop could very simply have identified himself as an officer - as far as I know, cops don't have the right to gun people down, even if they do think they are a criminal. Confrontation over, unless this 74-year old preacher just decided to go out in a blaze of glory in a shoot out with the police. Unlikely.

Anti Federalist
08-28-2010, 07:27 PM
///

daviddee
08-28-2010, 08:53 PM
...

pcosmar
08-28-2010, 08:58 PM
I recommend that all liberty minded people practice point shooting.
Forget that nice guy stuff. That WILL get you killed in any confrontation.
If you have a gun and pick it up,, be damn sure you are ready to use it. Right NOW !
I also recommend head shots. Some of these criminals are known to wear body armor.

:mad:
You may be dead either way, but don't give them a paid vacation on your way out.