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Anti Federalist
08-25-2010, 10:34 PM
Indian Carmaker Mahindra Cleared To Sell Pickups In U.S.

http://blogs.wsj.com/drivers-seat/2010/08/23/indian-carmaker-mahindra-cleared-to-sell-pickups-in-us/

http://s.wsj.net/public/resources/images/OB-JQ944_mahind_E_20100823142556.jpg

Indian car maker Mahindra & Mahindra says the Environmental Protection Agency cleared it to sell compact pickup trucks in the U.S., a Wall Street Journal report says. The company’s much-anticipated entry into the auto market here could shake up the intensely competitive pickup-truck market here.

Mahindra plans to begin selling a small truck with 2.2-liter, four-cylinder engine compact pickup truck in the U.S. by December. Previously the company was to introduce the truck here a year ago but delayed the roll-out because it didn’t get the necessary EPA approval and had to further develop the vehicle.

The new pickup could be tough competition for other compact-truck makers including Ford Motor Co., General Motors Corp., Toyota Motor Corp. and Nissan Motor Co., mainly because it will be the only small pickup available with a diesel engine. Mahindra says its pickup gets 30 miles per gallon, which is 50% better than that of some trucks on the market. Right now only large, heavy-duty pickups from the Detroit Three offer diesels.

Small pickups with good fuel economy could also attract buyers who hadn’t previously considered pickups because of their poor fuel economy and size that can make them ungainly. Following the pickup, Mahindra is expected to sell a version of its Scorpio SUV here next year, and a hybrid SUV by 2013.

The delay last year of the U.S. launch led auto dealer Global Vehicles U.S.A., which had agreed to distribute the trucks, to file a lawsuit against Mahindra accusing the Indian company of violating the agreement.

james1906
08-25-2010, 10:39 PM
Isn't there a steep tariff on imported trucks? Can these compete?

Will they catch on? Think of Crosslander, Daewoo, Sterling.....

Anti Federalist
08-25-2010, 10:46 PM
Isn't there a steep tariff on imported trucks? Can these compete?

Will they catch on? Think of Crosslander, Daewoo, Sterling.....

See this wiki entry on the "Chicken Tax".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicken_tax

In 2009, Mahindra & Mahindra Limited announced it will import pickup trucks from India in complete knock-down (CKD) kit form, again to circumvent the Chicken Tax.[5] CKDs are complete vehicles that can be assembled in the U.S. from kits of parts shipped in crates.[5][19]

james1906
08-25-2010, 10:59 PM
So this truck is essentially that go-kart ad in the back of Boy's Life magazine?

jmdrake
08-26-2010, 06:18 AM
See this wiki entry on the "Chicken Tax".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicken_tax

In 2009, Mahindra & Mahindra Limited announced it will import pickup trucks from India in complete knock-down (CKD) kit form, again to circumvent the Chicken Tax.[5] CKDs are complete vehicles that can be assembled in the U.S. from kits of parts shipped in crates.[5][19]

From the above link:

Subsequently, the Dutch accused the U.S. of dumping chickens at prices below cost of production.[10] The French government banned U.S. chicken and raised concerns that hormones could affect male virility.[10] German farmers' associations accused U.S. poultrymen of artificially fattening chicken with arsenic.[10] In fact, U.S. chicken farmers, with Food and Drug Administration approval, had treated chicken feed with antimony, arsenic compounds, or estrogen hormones to stimulate growth.[10]

Arsenic in chicken? :eek:

tjeffersonsghost
08-26-2010, 07:44 AM
Im sure they will be 30% less in cost than their American counterparts also...

Lafayette
08-26-2010, 07:44 AM
Arsenic in chicken? :eek:

It was OK'd by the FDA, its safe! ;)

EAT IT!

Baptist
08-26-2010, 08:02 AM
I checked out their website. I don't think they have 4-wheel drive. No 4wheel = worthless truck.

Warranty is 4-year bumper to bumper, though, which is better than Toyota's 3-year. Wonder what these will cost.

freshjiva
08-26-2010, 08:08 AM
This could be the first branded product of India to tap into US markets. I'm not sure if this is such a great idea by M&M, considering there's far better growth and production in India than here in the United States...

It's really interesting when you look at India's growth story. Mega-companies like Reliance (comparable to General Electric), Bharti AirTel (comparable to AT&T), Larsen & Toubro (comparable to Lockheed Martin) and others have achieved incredible success without having to even leave the Indian peninsula!

AdamT
08-26-2010, 08:23 AM
Ford was supposed to release a diesel F-150 this year, which I was highly considering buying (and becoming a first-time Ford owner). Then they canceled it for some crappy "eco-boost" gas engine. I only want diesels, to run them on veggie oil. So this new vehicle is interesting to me, and Ford has potentially lost a new customer.

erowe1
08-26-2010, 08:38 AM
What a shame that they even have to get "cleared" by a bunch of bureaucrats to sell them here.

I like that kit idea. Anything anyone can do to maintain some freedom in the face of a law that tries to remove it is good. I wonder if consumers can buy individual pre-assembled kits.

tjeffersonsghost
08-26-2010, 08:43 AM
Ford was supposed to release a diesel F-150 this year, which I was highly considering buying (and becoming a first-time Ford owner). Then they canceled it for some crappy "eco-boost" gas engine. I only want diesels, to run them on veggie oil. So this new vehicle is interesting to me, and Ford has potentially lost a new customer.

I agree, why the fuck do you need to spend $40k + to get a diesel engine? Why cant the offer diesel on an F-150 or a Chevy Silverado 1500? Whoever does that will sell some trucks and own the market. I too want a diesel truck but will not spend $40k to get one.

KCIndy
08-26-2010, 08:58 AM
I agree, why the fuck do you need to spend $40k + to get a diesel engine? Why cant the offer diesel on an F-150 or a Chevy Silverado 1500? Whoever does that will sell some trucks and own the market. I too want a diesel truck but will not spend $40k to get one.


Truck manufacturers could also offer smaller, scaled-down diesel engines that would send MPG through the roof and *still* give the truck enough power to haul nearly anything on would reasonably want to load in it or hook to it. I'm at a complete loss as to why manufacturers here in the U.S. have not picked up on this.... :(

The engines in the Dodge, Ford and Chevy diesel series are literally powerful enough to pull 40,000+ pound loads on a trailer - very easily. I know, because I know someone who went into business hauling cargo containers of that weight with his pickup.

Unless one wishes to haul loads comparable to that hauled by a semi truck, a small diesel, say, one quarter the displacement they're using now, would be more than enough to haul a camper or boat. And I'm guessing the MPG would rise considerably as a bonus.

I've got a VW Jetta with a diesel engine. It's only 1.7 liters, but it can keep up with practically anything on the road. I can drive it like a maniac and still get on the high side of 40 MPG.

Icymudpuppy
08-26-2010, 08:59 AM
Big time veggie burner here. I will be excited to get one of these. Keeping my old 82 VW rabbit diesel pickup on the road is getting harder and harder. The engine runs great still, but the rest of the truck is falling apart, and VW parts are hard to come by.

Wish a domestic manufacturer would sell small diesel pickups here. Ford has Rangers with diesels for sale in every other country in the world except USA and Canada. I saw them everywhere in the Philippines, Iraq, Panama, Ireland, etc.

legion
08-26-2010, 09:09 AM
I checked out their website. I don't think they have 4-wheel drive. No 4wheel = worthless truck.

Warranty is 4-year bumper to bumper, though, which is better than Toyota's 3-year. Wonder what these will cost.

Everywhere I saw on Mahindra's website seemed to indicate 4wd was a drivetrain option.

Mahindra currently only sells tractors in the US so offering 4wd would seem to be automatic for their marketing department, because people that buy their tractors are probably going to be the first to try these trucks.

Icymudpuppy
08-26-2010, 09:24 AM
I have 3 trucks without 4wd. They are used for commercial home service. 4wd transmissions waste fuel if your trucks are only used on hard surfaces. I have no need of 4wd, and will get a 2WD version.

freshjiva
08-26-2010, 09:27 AM
I am fascinated by everyone's comments here.

Pardon my ignorance, but can someone explain to me what benefits there are for having a diesel engine? Also, according to some of the comments here, it appears there's an unmet need of smaller sized trucks that run on diesel fuel, correct? If this is the case, do you guys think this Mahindra compact diesel truck will fill a void?

Icymudpuppy
08-26-2010, 09:35 AM
I am fascinated by everyone's comments here.

Pardon my ignorance, but can someone explain to me what benefits there are for having a diesel engine?

1. 30% better fuel economy for the same amount of power as a comparible gasoline

2. Longer engine life because of the tighter tolerances needed for compression ignition, as well as lower operational RPMs.

3. Alternative fuel compatibility. Biodiesel, Veg Oil, Motor Oil, Tranny Oil, Hydraulic Fluid, Brake Fluid, Power Steering Fluid, melted lard, bacon grease, etc will all burn in a compression ignition motor.

4. More low end torque for heavy hauling, idling in a rolling field while picking up hay bales, etc.

5. Fewer malfunctions as diesels require no electric parts to operate. No wires, plugs, distributer, etc.


Also, according to some of the comments here, it appears there's an unmet need of smaller sized trucks that run on diesel fuel, correct? If this is the case, do you guys think this Mahindra compact diesel truck will fill a void?

Absolutely. I've been wanting one for years.

KCIndy
08-26-2010, 09:35 AM
I am fascinated by everyone's comments here.

Pardon my ignorance, but can someone explain to me what benefits there are for having a diesel engine? Also, according to some of the comments here, it appears there's an unmet need of smaller sized trucks that run on diesel fuel, correct? If this is the case, do you guys think this Mahindra compact diesel truck will fill a void?


Diesel engines have several advantages:

They are more durable, generally speaking. If maintained correctly, a good diesel engine can last anywhere from 700,000 to 1,000,000 miles before needing a major overhaul.

They are more powerful for towing/hauling etc. Diesel engines produce more torque than gas engines.

Diesels can run on biodiesel and even, (with a few modifications in some cases), straight vegetable oil. Not only is this usually cheaper than petro diesel but it also insulates one from the fluctuations of the oil market, etc.

Because diesel fuel is denser, it is generally more fuel efficient than gasoline. Basically a matter of energy density. The only reason the big American pickup trucks aren't getting phenomenal mileage is because the engines are SO big they can haul semi truck sized loads, as I mentioned above.


Personally, (just my opinion) I think any company who enters the pickup truck market with a diesel engine big enough to have the power to pull a bass boat or camper trailer but small enough to get an MPG of 30+ would do very well here in the U.S.



EDIT: LOL icymudpuppy beat me to the answer by seconds!! :)

erowe1
08-26-2010, 09:46 AM
I'm sure others here know way more about this than I do. I'm not a truck guy and have never owned a diesel engine.

But, apart from the biodiesel option, diesel engines running on regular diesel fuel get way better gas mileage than regular engines. And despite that fact, and the fact that it supposedly wants to make auto manufacturers produce more fuel efficient cars, federal taxes per gallon of diesel are considerably higher than they are for regular gas. So the government is positively discouraging consumers from using more diesel engines. This is a good example of how a government action of trying to steer the market toward something that's supposedly more beneficial, ends up being counterproductive, because politicians will pick certain products that they want to promote as winners (such as hybrid engines), whereas the free market left on its own would have accomplished the desired end (better mileage) more efficiently with some other product (such as diesel engines, not just in trucks, but also cars).

Icymudpuppy
08-26-2010, 09:47 AM
EDIT: LOL icymudpuppy beat me to the answer by seconds!! :)

You gave more explanation for your answers.

Anti Federalist
08-26-2010, 11:06 AM
Just to add on a couple things here.

I don't know about these Mahindra engines, but I'm going to have to assume that the following is the case: those engines, in order to comply with EPA emissions are computer controlled, thus ending the simple reliability of a small, mechanical, diesel engine.

And, to those people thinking about running a diesel on vegetable oils or other "bio" combinations, you need an older mechanical diesel to do that. The new computerized ones won't run properly on straight vegetable oils.

And if you did modify a newer EPA compliant engine to run on vegetable oils, you'd be committing a federal felony.

jmdrake
08-26-2010, 11:14 AM
It was OK'd by the FDA, its safe! ;)

EAT IT!

Fluoride in water, mercury in vaccines and arsenic in chicken. And I bet if I started making an issue about arsenic in chicken some would call me a "conspiracy theorist". This is a classic example of how the regulatory state that is supposed to "protect" us is actually raping us. In a free market the arsenic using chicken farmer would have to convince the general public what they are doing is safe. But in our corporatist system the government does the work for them. :mad:

Icymudpuppy
08-26-2010, 11:20 AM
Just to add on a couple things here.

I don't know about these Mahindra engines, but I'm going to have to assume that the following is the case: those engines, in order to comply with EPA emissions are computer controlled, thus ending the simple reliability of a small, mechanical, diesel engine.

And, to those people thinking about running a diesel on vegetable oils or other "bio" combinations, you need an older mechanical diesel to do that. The new computerized ones won't run properly on straight vegetable oils.

And if you did modify a newer EPA compliant engine to run on vegetable oils, you'd be committing a federal felony.

True, the injectors will be computer controlled, as will the catalytic converter. However, not overly so. The added turbo boost is the most failure prone part of a modern diesel.

I have been running my modern computer injected, turbo boosted 2000 F-250 powerstroke on vegetable and other oils for over 140,000 miles without problems with a small conversion.

Fuck the EPA.

KCIndy
08-26-2010, 11:24 AM
And if you did modify a newer EPA compliant engine to run on vegetable oils, you'd be committing a federal felony.

WTF????

When did this happen??? :mad:

Anti Federalist
08-26-2010, 11:29 AM
True, the injectors will be computer controlled, as will the catalytic converter. However, not overly so. The added turbo boost is the most failure prone part of a modern diesel.

I have been running my modern computer injected, turbo boosted 2000 F-250 powerstroke on vegetable and other oils for over 140,000 miles without problems with a small conversion.

+1

Although, IIRC the 2000 model year is not so problematic, it's the "Tier 2" compliant engines built after 2004 that won't run worth a shit on PVOs.


Fuck the EPA.

+1776

dannno
08-26-2010, 11:34 AM
Hmmm I'd consider buying one of these.

Anti Federalist
08-26-2010, 11:36 AM
WTF????

When did this happen??? :mad:

Vegetable oil fuels are not approved for on road use in Tier 2 compliant diesel engines.

Use of these fuels will alter the NoX emissions of a diesel engine.

Altering the fuel or emissions of Tier 2 compliant engine is a federal crime, IIRC punishable by a $250,000 fine and three years in prison.

wiki:


The legality of burning SVO in the United States of America is debated by many. Though vehicle conversions are available both as do it yourself kits or professionally installed in virtually every metropolitan area, the EPA clearly states vegetable oil (raw or recycled) is not registered for use as a vehicle fuel.[9] Further, vehicles converted to use vegetable oil as fuel would "likely need to be certified by the EPA," and no such certifications have been done to date.

:mad:

Icymudpuppy
08-26-2010, 11:36 AM
Also, there are several LEOs in my area that are well aware of my running on VO and indeed have asked my help in converting their own vehicles. Given the Carbon neutral, "Green" aspect of running VO, only fools would try to enforce the EPA's oil company controlled edicts. I guess places like Chicago can enforce that shit, but it wouldn't fly around here.

HOLLYWOOD
08-26-2010, 11:39 AM
Don't forget one factor... the amount of energy in fuel: Diesel/Bio-Diesel is superior to Gasoline or E85

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gasoline_gallon_equivalent

Diesel engines are all low end torque machines and ideal for the ridiculously slow highway speed limits.

European Diesels are superior to US legacy garbage out of the big 3. On top of that, European engineered Diesels... don't sound like the "Cement Mixers" from US manufacturers.

It does take more crude to produce a gallon of Diesel compared to gas... but million mile reliable engines are far superior to their gas counterparts.

Consumer Diesel is almost a clean sweep win over gasoline engines.



Diesel engines have several advantages:

They are more durable, generally speaking. If maintained correctly, a good diesel engine can last anywhere from 700,000 to 1,000,000 miles before needing a major overhaul.

They are more powerful for towing/hauling etc. Diesel engines produce more torque than gas engines.

Diesels can run on biodiesel and even, (with a few modifications in some cases), straight vegetable oil. Not only is this usually cheaper than petro diesel but it also insulates one from the fluctuations of the oil market, etc.

Because diesel fuel is denser, it is generally more fuel efficient than gasoline. Basically a matter of energy density. The only reason the big American pickup trucks aren't getting phenomenal mileage is because the engines are SO big they can haul semi truck sized loads, as I mentioned above.


Personally, (just my opinion) I think any company who enters the pickup truck market with a diesel engine big enough to have the power to pull a bass boat or camper trailer but small enough to get an MPG of 30+ would do very well here in the U.S.



EDIT: LOL icymudpuppy beat me to the answer by seconds!! :)

Anti Federalist
08-26-2010, 11:41 AM
Also, there are several LEOs in my area that are well aware of my running on VO and indeed have asked my help in converting their own vehicles. Given the Carbon neutral, "Green" aspect of running VO, only fools would try to enforce the EPA's oil company controlled edicts. I guess places like Chicago can enforce that shit, but it wouldn't fly around here.

Oh, don't get me wrong, I do the same thing myself.

I'm just pointing out the reach and scope of the police state once again, and maybe getting a few more short sighted people who think, "well I'm not breaking any laws, what have I got to worry about?" to reconsider.

We're all criminals, you can't go a day in modern Amerika, without breaking a law somewhere, even when you try to "play by the rules" and "do the right thing".

KCIndy
08-26-2010, 11:42 AM
Also, there are several LEOs in my area that are well aware of my running on VO and indeed have asked my help in converting their own vehicles. Given the Carbon neutral, "Green" aspect of running VO, only fools would try to enforce the EPA's oil company controlled edicts. I guess places like Chicago can enforce that shit, but it wouldn't fly around here.


Ditto all the above for my area of rural Indiana. I knew that the manufacturers' specs were really tight on the NOX emissions, that's part of what drove Caterpillar out of the heavy diesel engine market. I just never realized it was a freakin' FELONY to alter the engine yourself, after purchasing it.... lots of people around here do it.

Nnnggh... errggghhh.... been a bad day already and now I find out there's one more way the Feds want to insert their intrusive presence up my ass.

Time to take a break before my brain explodes.

Cowlesy
08-26-2010, 11:45 AM
I'll stick with Deere for tractors (Mahindra also sells tractors) and Ford for trucks.

Anti Federalist
08-26-2010, 11:46 AM
Vegetable Oil Fuel is Illegal

http://www.dieselearth.com/notebook/vegetable-oil-fuel-is-illegal.html

A few things to consider before installing your own vegetable oil conversion kit:

According the Environmental Protection Agency (the EPA) operating a vehicle with a non-approved fuel delivery system is a violation of Federal regulations. Although the EPA has never prosecuted anyone for operating a vehicle powered by vegetable oil, the regulations in 40CFR state that alternative fuel systems must be approved by the EPA in passenger cars and light trucks before they can be used on-road.

In addition, before installing a veggie fuel conversion kit, consider that alternatively fueled vehicles are subject to state emission requirements as well as Federal regulations which may prohibit the use of vegetable oil as a fuel source. California residents should take extra precautions as their laws are the most stringent.

A primary consideration for the EPA in aftermarket alternative fuel conversions is that they must not interfere with existing OBD II systems on a vehicle.

OBD II systems are required to monitor

•Engine misfires
•Oxygen sensors
•Evaporative leaks
•Other emission-related power train components that might impact emissions
Biodiesel (also known as B100, B20, etc.), as opposed to pure vegetable oil, is approved for use in motor vehicles by the EPA. It seems the sticking point for pure vegetable oil is the delivery system, simply because no one has applied for and been approved to sell a secondary fuel source conversion kit for vegetable oil.

Anti Federalist
08-26-2010, 11:48 AM
I'll stick with Deere for tractors (Mahindra also sells tractors) and Ford for trucks.

+1776

I've got a 29 year old JD 310a backhoe, still going strong.

My 84 F150 had 370k + miles on and still running when I parked it.

Parts of it have been resurrected into an engine swap in my 1993 F150.

Cowlesy
08-26-2010, 11:52 AM
+1776

I've got a 29 year old JD 310a backhoe, still going strong.

My 84 F150 had 370k + miles on and still running when I parked it.

Parts of it have been resurrected into an engine swap in my 1993 F150.

Nice!

Along with having past experience of items with those brands operating very well, I also have two friends who work for Deere (one in fabrication and one in leasing) out in Iowa, and I have loyalty to a Ford dealership, not to mention besides those stupid eco-grants they took, they avoided the auto-bailout. So there is a bit of tradition/loyalty component for me.

Anti Federalist
08-26-2010, 11:53 AM
State makes big fuss over local couple's vegetable oil car fuel

From 2007

http://www.herald-review.com/news/local/article_5dae2327-a3cb-5bba-ac4c-14dac3b83327.html

DECATUR - David and Eileen Wetzel don't get going in the morning quite as early as they used to.

So David Wetzel, 79, was surprised to hear a knock on the door at their eastside home while he was still getting dressed.

Two men in suits were standing on his porch.

"They showed me their badges and said they were from the Illinois Department of Revenue," Wetzel said. "I said, 'Come in.' Maybe I shouldn't have."

Gary May introduced himself as a special agent. The other man, John Egan, was introduced as his colleague. May gave the Wetzels his card, stating that he is the senior agent in the bureau of criminal investigations.

"I was afraid," Eileen Wetzel said. "I came out of the bathroom. I thought: Good God, we paid our taxes. The check didn't bounce."

The agents informed the Wetzels that they were interested in their car, a 1986 Volkswagen Golf, that David Wetzel converted to run primarily from vegetable oil but also partly on diesel.

Wetzel uses recycled vegetable oil, which he picks up weekly from an organization that uses it for frying food at its dining facility.

"They told me I am required to have a license and am obligated to pay a motor fuel tax," David Wetzel recalled. "Mr. May also told me the tax would be retroactive."

Since the initial visit by the agents on Jan. 4, the Wetzels have been involved in a struggle with the Illinois Department of Revenue. The couple, who live on a fixed budget, have been asked to post a $2,500 bond and threatened with felony charges.

jmdrake
08-26-2010, 11:56 AM
I didn't know that. I did know that you could get fined out the wazoo for not paying your fuel excise. But they'll give you a "tax credit" that you have to fill out paperwork to get it.

There needs to be a video showing how regulations actually hurt the environment and the people in it. Arsenic fed chickens ok. Retrofitting your own car for biofuel not. That's our government.


Vegetable Oil Fuel is Illegal

http://www.dieselearth.com/notebook/vegetable-oil-fuel-is-illegal.html

A few things to consider before installing your own vegetable oil conversion kit:

According the Environmental Protection Agency (the EPA) operating a vehicle with a non-approved fuel delivery system is a violation of Federal regulations. Although the EPA has never prosecuted anyone for operating a vehicle powered by vegetable oil, the regulations in 40CFR state that alternative fuel systems must be approved by the EPA in passenger cars and light trucks before they can be used on-road.

In addition, before installing a veggie fuel conversion kit, consider that alternatively fueled vehicles are subject to state emission requirements as well as Federal regulations which may prohibit the use of vegetable oil as a fuel source. California residents should take extra precautions as their laws are the most stringent.

A primary consideration for the EPA in aftermarket alternative fuel conversions is that they must not interfere with existing OBD II systems on a vehicle.

OBD II systems are required to monitor

•Engine misfires
•Oxygen sensors
•Evaporative leaks
•Other emission-related power train components that might impact emissions
Biodiesel (also known as B100, B20, etc.), as opposed to pure vegetable oil, is approved for use in motor vehicles by the EPA. It seems the sticking point for pure vegetable oil is the delivery system, simply because no one has applied for and been approved to sell a secondary fuel source conversion kit for vegetable oil.

Anti Federalist
08-26-2010, 11:59 AM
Nice!

Along with having past experience of items with those brands operating very well, I also have two friends who work for Deere (one in fabrication and one in leasing) out in Iowa, and I have loyalty to a Ford dealership, not to mention besides those stupid eco-grants they took, they avoided the auto-bailout. So there is a bit of tradition/loyalty component for me.

I've avoided the "free trade" argument in this thread, but I have to comment here.

Ford avoided taxpayer bailouts and is one of the most successful car companies in the world.

They did that on the back of sales of the F150, which has been one of the top selling vehicles in the US for, what, 30 years now.

I say that was possible partly due to the fact that there was a 25% import duty on foreign made pickup trucks.

HOLLYWOOD
08-26-2010, 11:59 AM
Vegetable Oil Fuel is Illegal

[/URL][URL]http://www.dieselearth.com/notebook/vegetable-oil-fuel-is-illegal.html (http://www.dieselearth.com/notebook/vegetable-oil-fuel-is-illegal.html)

A few things to consider before installing your own vegetable oil conversion kit:

According the Environmental Protection Agency (the EPA) operating a vehicle with a non-approved fuel delivery system is a violation of Federal regulations.
Biodiesel (also known as B100, B20, etc.), as opposed to pure vegetable oil, is approved for use in motor vehicles by the EPA. It seems the sticking point for pure vegetable oil is the delivery system, simply because no one has applied for and been approved to sell a secondary fuel source conversion kit for vegetable oil.

Don't you think there may also be a Lobby in Washington pushed by Big Oil and others to keep their world in control & profitable?

Vegetable oil is readily available everywhere... and such, harder for Fascist government to maintain control over.

Southron
08-26-2010, 12:03 PM
I wonder what increasing demand for diesel fuel would do to shipping prices if diesel engines become widely available.

Also remember if you live in a cold climate to treat your fuel to keep it from gelling.

Anti Federalist
08-26-2010, 12:07 PM
Don't you think there may also be a Lobby in Washington pushed by Big Oil and others to keep their world in control & profitable?

Vegetable oil is readily available everywhere... and such, harder for Fascist government to maintain control over.

I think that's part of it, sure.

But I also think that it cuts across issues and markets.

Let's face it: the feds think they unlimited power to regulate every aspect of your life, and assess huge fines and throw people in prison for "non compliance".

Just because they don't do it, yet, on a massive scale, does not mean that the "Sword of Damocles" does not hang over our heads every day.

FFS, the everfucking feds can put you in prison for having an out of compliance toilet. :mad:

legion
08-26-2010, 12:40 PM
Can we get that super chic looking 3rd world style sky high roll bar on the US version?

Old Ducker
08-26-2010, 12:45 PM
I wonder if the owners manual recommends only putting your right hand on the steering wheel...

puppetmaster
08-26-2010, 01:08 PM
I have used a mahindra tractor.....works well

Pericles
08-26-2010, 02:04 PM
Can we get that super chic looking 3rd world style sky high roll bar on the US version?

I want to build a purple one with a two story house on it.

awake
08-26-2010, 02:22 PM
I wonder how long it will be until the gas pedals on these vehicles start mysteriously sticking while CNN is taping?