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Reason
08-25-2010, 01:31 PM
Just got out of my new Philosophy "critical thinking" class that I have this semester and he just spent a solid half hour of the class talking about how the NYC mosque should not be built because it's insensative.... I immediately brought up that perceived "sensativities" are irrelevant in our republic because it comes down to property rights. Which he then immediately countered with rhetoric about how islam seems to be the only religion that has suicide bombers and how he would have been okay with it if the muslims had gone around to firehouses assuring people that their intentions were nothing but good...

low preference guy
08-25-2010, 01:33 PM
a non-liberal college professor? where is this?

libertybrewcity
08-25-2010, 01:36 PM
Listen to the latest videos by Ron Paul on CNN. Islam is not at fault, it was a small group of extremists.

You could also ask "should we ban churches around the area where Timothy McVeigh bombed?"

dannno
08-25-2010, 01:39 PM
Ask him why Fox News is funding the Mosque?

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=258207

Jordan
08-25-2010, 01:40 PM
Realize that no matter what you do he won't change his mind. Then realize that in the end, he's the one who gives you a grade.

erowe1
08-25-2010, 01:41 PM
Just got out of my new Philosophy "critical thinking" class that I have this semester and he just spent a solid half hour of the class talking about how the NYC mosque should not be built because it's insensative.... I immediately brought up that perceived "sensativities" are irrelevant in our republic because it comes down to property rights. Which he then immediately countered with rhetoric about how islam seems to be the only religion that has suicide bombers and how he would have been okay with it if the muslims had gone around to firehouses assuring people that their intentions were nothing but good...

Was he denying that they had the right to do it? Or was he just saying that they shouldn't?

Also, there's something fishy about this. Are you sure he wasn't playing devil's advocate to test the class out? Philosophy profs can be weird sometimes and do that sort of thing.

MelissaWV
08-25-2010, 01:45 PM
Just got out of my new Philosophy "critical thinking" class that I have this semester and he just spent a solid half hour of the class talking about how the NYC mosque should not be built because it's insensative.... I immediately brought up that perceived "sensativities" are irrelevant in our republic because it comes down to property rights. Which he then immediately countered with rhetoric about how islam seems to be the only religion that has suicide bombers and how he would have been okay with it if the muslims had gone around to firehouses assuring people that their intentions were nothing but good...

Since he has provided you with terms of appeasement, it's easier to dismantle his argument.

There are people who would NOT have been okay with it if the Muslims had gone around to firehouses assuring people that their intentions were good. In fact, assuring someone your intentions are good has no real bearing on whether or not they really are. You can cite the fact that Islamic leaders have repeatedly characterized the religion as a "religion of peace," yet your professor does not believe that for a moment (per his own comments).

There are people who have different terms to be met before they are okay with the mosque being built. There are people who will never be satisfied that it's okay for the mosque to be built. There are people who would like the dozens of other mosques in the NYC area to implode and make way for more stores and business buildings. Ultimately, the sensibilities of all of those people being taken into account will lead to nothing being done either way; a stalemate.

The property was purchased without provisos indicating that a mosque was unacceptable use of the property. There were, in fact, things that you could NOT do with that property from the beginning per NYC zoning ordinances. Those were the terms under which the building was purchased. To now say that a mosque cannot be built there would be changing the terms of the purchase entirely. Time spent designing, advertising, and obtaining all the appropriate contracts, permits, and licensures would have been wasted. New York has had many years to come up with a provision to add to purchases within a certain radius of Ground Zero, one that states that foreign-funded mosques (for instance) cannot be built within that area. People who were concerned about this have also had many years to raise funds and purchase fallow buildings in the area to only develop them as is "tasteful." None of this was done.

There are numerous "distasteful" things in NYC that might sully the memory of those that died. I won't get into a list of them, but take it as gospel that whatever you find repulsive, it exists in NYC. To say that this should not be built because it's distasteful is to wish that an authority be appointed to determine what is and isn't tasteful, and what radius is appropriate to keep out certain businesses. On top of that, is there anything less tasteful to some of the families of the dead than building a massive building or two on the de facto cemetary their loved ones' bodies are mixed into? That, however, is still going forward. Whatever authority you appoint to decide taste and propriety is going to stay there after this building goes up or doesn't. They'll decide whether or not the bakery going in next door is too loud, or if the mannequins in the store window need to be of a certain size in order not to offend the average-sized woman. It would be like a citywide HOA, with even more power than a zoning board.

Even if you decided to appoint the above, it would be after the fact for this particular purchase and building project. The time to change the rules is before the game begins, not during it.

sratiug
08-25-2010, 01:46 PM
Ask him if it is insensitive for a Jew and a bunch of Christians to build a one hundred story commercial building on the actual site of the disaster. Also ask him if the New World Order Trade Center will hire Muslims or rent to Muslims or do business with Muslims or trade in Muslim oil and stocks or allow Muslim tourists.

Zippyjuan
08-25-2010, 01:48 PM
Ask him why Fox News is funding the Mosque?

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=258207

Rupert Murdoch is building the mosque? I didn't know he was Muslim. Wow. The things you can learn here!

AuH2O
08-25-2010, 01:48 PM
Ask him if you critical thinking philosophy class has anything to do with what government should or shouldn't do. If he's saying it "shouldn't be built" but not talking about government stopping it ... what's the big deal?

Austrian Econ Disciple
08-25-2010, 01:50 PM
Just got out of my new Philosophy "critical thinking" class that I have this semester and he just spent a solid half hour of the class talking about how the NYC mosque should not be built because it's insensative.... I immediately brought up that perceived "sensativities" are irrelevant in our republic because it comes down to property rights. Which he then immediately countered with rhetoric about how islam seems to be the only religion that has suicide bombers and how he would have been okay with it if the muslims had gone around to firehouses assuring people that their intentions were nothing but good...

Yep, because no one remembers the rabid Christian groups who bombed abortion clinics....no fanatacism there at all. Better condemn all of Christianity now..

Kevin_Kennedy
08-25-2010, 01:52 PM
You made your point, which he countered with nonsense, and that's all you can do. I've found it's always best to simply make your point and then let it go. People will think your annoying if you continually get into arguments with a professor, and they're pretty much going to side with the professor every time.

dannno
08-25-2010, 01:53 PM
Rupert Murdoch is building the mosque? I didn't know he was Muslim. Wow. The things you can learn here!

I didn't know that Rupert Murdoch was the only one who owned News Corps :rolleyes:

dannno
08-25-2010, 01:55 PM
Rupert Murdoch is building the mosque? I didn't know he was Muslim. Wow. The things you can learn here!

I guess you've never made the connection that the reason why the Saudis support Americans being anti-Islam is because it helps us to go to war against their neighbors. Next time you might want to consider why the second largest shareholder of a particular company IS the second largest shareholder of said specific company before you assume there isn't any reason.

Maximus
08-25-2010, 02:11 PM
Having taken many philosophy classes, I'm shocked that he is even a philosophy professor

Zippyjuan
08-25-2010, 02:26 PM
I didn't know that Rupert Murdoch was the only one who owned News Corps :rolleyes:

He IS the largest share holder, chairman, and CEO. If it is indeed Fox News paying for building the mosque it must be with his aproval. If a person who also happens to be a seven percent share holder of Fox is contributing his own private money, then it is NOT Fox News paying for the mosque to be built- unless the money is coming directly from Fox itself and the move was aproved by its directors. If Ron Paul gives to a charity, would you say that Congress supported and paid for that charity? He is a member of congress after all! (Sorry for getting off topic on the thread!).

erowe1
08-25-2010, 02:28 PM
Having taken many philosophy classes, I'm shocked that he is even a philosophy professor

That depends on what he's really up to.

AuH2O
08-25-2010, 02:39 PM
Ask him why Fox News is funding the Mosque?

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=258207

This is an inaccurate description. By this logic, any company he owns stock in is building the mosque.

Reason
08-25-2010, 02:45 PM
I'm typing this from my phone, but on top of this I asked him if he would read ron pauls position on the issue if I pulled it up for him after class, he said yes, so I pulled it up and he glanced at it then said he would look it up later and very rudely turned around and walked off...

another thing that pissed me off was when I asked him if he was facilitating the idea that a particular religion was responsible for 9/11 almost the entire class made little under their breath noises of disaprovement of my comment,then several students stated that the mosque is obviously being built as a symbol of islamic triumph over america......

treyfu
08-25-2010, 03:06 PM
I wonder if he objects to Christian churches being built next to the sites of the numerous atrocities committed by the US military in Iraq and Afghanistan

Jack Bauer
08-25-2010, 03:06 PM
Ask him if he thinks people shouldn't speak harshly against the mosque/ jihad/ islamic terrorism because its "hurts the sentiments" of muslims.

Sensitivity is a bogus argument. If we stopped doing everything by considering how it would offend people, nothing would get done.

Chieppa1
08-25-2010, 03:23 PM
Just say, "We've been making Ground Zeros near Iraqi mosques since 2003".

ibaghdadi
08-25-2010, 03:28 PM
Which he then immediately countered with rhetoric about how islam seems to be the only religion that has suicide bombers
Maybe you should point out that the secular (but mostly Hindu) Tamil Tigers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tamil_Tigers) were using suicide bombers long before Alqaeda ever became active.

ibaghdadi
08-25-2010, 03:33 PM
then several students stated that the mosque is obviously being built as a symbol of islamic triumph over america......
You could ask those who peddle the "symbolism argument" whether they actually believe America has been defeated by Islamists.

If they say no, ask them what's their problem then? The symbolism is empty.

If they say yes, ask if they would personally volunteer to join the war in Iraq or Afghanistan, or, in fact, why they're even at school and not in Kabul.

specsaregood
08-25-2010, 03:49 PM
,then several students stated that the mosque is obviously being built as a symbol of islamic triumph over america......

And our gigantic embassy in Iraq is a symbol of christian triumph over muslim iraq.

Our symbol is much bigger. We clearly win.

RedStripe
08-25-2010, 03:51 PM
no offense but I would seriously question the quality of your school if a philosophy professor is that stupid

YumYum
08-25-2010, 04:17 PM
How bad do you want to get an "A" grade? If you want an "A", agree with him.

oyarde
08-25-2010, 04:25 PM
Maybe you should point out that the secular (but mostly Hindu) Tamil Tigers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tamil_Tigers) were using suicide bombers long before Alqaeda ever became active.

ibaghdadi is correct about the Tamil Tigers.They did have training ties with the PLO in the 70's. They also have some contact with other groups tied together by arms purchases in Myanamar , Thailand and Cambodia ,

RonPaulGetsIt
08-25-2010, 04:32 PM
Gary north has a great article on how to deal with professors. Do a search for it on lewrockwell.com

low preference guy
08-25-2010, 04:36 PM
Gary north has a great article on how to deal with professors. Do a search for it on lewrockwell.com

is it this one?

http://www.garynorth.com/public/6158.cfm

specsaregood
08-25-2010, 04:37 PM
How bad do you want to get an "A" grade? If you want an "A", agree with him.

You play a "yes man" in real life don't you. You are bound for success in life no doubt.

Promontorium
08-25-2010, 04:43 PM
I had the best professor ever this summer for Philosophy. I disagreed with him on everything, sometimes I think he just wanted to debate with me. He gave me allllll As on everything because he cared more about my effort, and didn't grade on agreement.

Contrast that with my US History professor the previous semester who graded me solely on whether he agreed with me or not, and he didn't agree. His last lesson of the semester was just 40 minutes of bashing Rand Paul (and managed to slip in a bashing of Ron, and Ayn Rand).

Suggestion: If he grades you poorly for disagreeing with you, let him do all the talking when you don't
agree. It's not a forum, so I don't expect a mandate for the professor to have any respect for anyone's thoughts. If you don't like it, file a complaint, switch instructors if not too late.

Reason
08-25-2010, 05:06 PM
I am very puzzled by this professor... Most are pretty easy to figure out...

I think I am most disappointed by the views that so many of my fellow students showed...

I don't want to back down for the sake of maybe having a better grade when it is so clear that so many of my fellow students are in such dire need of someone to counter this bullshit...

I don't know... Maybe this guy just spends so much time with philosophy that he hasn't studied the international politics of 9/11?

Seems hard to believe...

YumYum
08-25-2010, 05:12 PM
You play a "yes man" in real life don't you. You are bound for success in life no doubt.

Well, aren't we all "yes men" on this forum? When Ron Paul supporters advocate rubbing shoulders and mixing in with warmongering neocons, showing them how we agree with them on almost every point except foreign policy, for the sole purpose of them accepting us and winning them over, isn't that being a "yes man"?

You wanna win in 2012, don't you?

dannno
08-25-2010, 05:21 PM
This is an inaccurate description. By this logic, any company he owns stock in is building the mosque.

No, my point is that he has enough influence over the station and he gets enough money from the station to where I can make that statement. If you disagree, that's coo.

I still stand by my statement that Fox News is funding the Mosque.

dannno
08-25-2010, 05:23 PM
another thing that pissed me off was when I asked him if he was facilitating the idea that a particular religion was responsible for 9/11 almost the entire class made little under their breath noises of disaprovement of my comment,then several students stated that the mosque is obviously being built as a symbol of islamic triumph over america......

Wtf kind of neocon school do you go to?!

I'll take a liberal college with people who actually have a better concept of humanity over the school you're at any day. These people are total retards, at least at liberal schools they have good intentions for humanity.. they may try to use immoral force to attain their goals, but at least they have noble goals and are actually educated. This is total horse shit.

RonPaulGetsIt
08-25-2010, 05:32 PM
is it this one?

http://www.garynorth.com/public/6158.cfm

Yeah that is the one

Reason
08-25-2010, 05:32 PM
Wtf kind of neocon school do you go to?!

I'll take a liberal college with people who actually have a better concept of humanity over the school you're at any day. These people are total retards, at least at liberal schools they have good intentions for humanity.. they may try to use immoral force to attain their goals, but at least they have noble goals and are actually educated. This is total horse shit.

San Diego, more specifically El Cajon and local region is VERY right wing.

Duncan Hunter (our cong. rep.) is a blatant neocon.

dannno
08-25-2010, 05:35 PM
Ya my parents live in San Diego and they hate Muslims now too. Must be something in the water.

low preference guy
08-25-2010, 05:36 PM
Ya my parents live in San Diego and they hate Muslims now too. Must be something in the water.

fluoride.

libertarian4321
08-25-2010, 05:45 PM
Just got out of my new Philosophy "critical thinking" class that I have this semester and he just spent a solid half hour of the class talking about how the NYC mosque should not be built because it's insensative.... I immediately brought up that perceived "sensativities" are irrelevant in our republic because it comes down to property rights. Which he then immediately countered with rhetoric about how islam seems to be the only religion that has suicide bombers and how he would have been okay with it if the muslims had gone around to firehouses assuring people that their intentions were nothing but good...

Muslims certainly are NOT the only people who have used suicide attacks (whether bombing, using planes as in 9-11, or otherwise). Historically, there have been many examples of suicide attacks, often against military targets, but against civilian as well. Probably the best known example was the Japanese during WW2.

As someone else mentioned, the non-Muslim Tamils in Sri Lanka were responsible for a huge number of suicide bombings from the 1980's to early 2000's- they managed to kill the President of Sri Lanka as well as R. Gandhi, the former Indian PM.

BTW, we had a non-Muslim suicide attack in the USA this year- the guy who filled his plane with fuel and flew it into a government building in Austin, Texas.

Liberty Rebellion
08-25-2010, 06:57 PM
Muslims certainly are NOT the only people who have used suicide attacks (whether bombing, using planes as in 9-11, or otherwise). Historically, there have been many examples of suicide attacks, often against military targets, but against civilian as well. Probably the best known example was the Japanese during WW2.

As someone else mentioned, the non-Muslim Tamils in Sri Lanka were responsible for a huge number of suicide bombings from the 1980's to early 2000's- they managed to kill the President of Sri Lanka as well as R. Gandhi, the former Indian PM.

BTW, we had a non-Muslim suicide attack in the USA this year- the guy who filled his plane with fuel and flew it into a government building in Austin, Texas.

"Dying to Win" is a great book and has a ton of great data to refute the claims that only Muslims perform suicide attacks. There were Christians in Lebanon that committed suicide attacks against Israeli forces in the 80s.

Also, if it were true that Muslims were more likely to be suicide attackers for just that reason alone, you would expect that most of them would come from the country with the largest Muslim population. In fact, what you find is that most of the suicide attackers came from a country that was being occupied by a foreign occupier, with a democratic government and a different religion. Religion or not, the attacks are more about national liberation than anything

It's a great book and I love using the data from it to refute these Islamaphobes I encounter in my everyday life

Agorism
08-25-2010, 07:09 PM
Just got out of my new Philosophy "critical thinking" class that I have this semester and he just spent a solid half hour of the class talking about how the NYC mosque should not be built because it's insensative.... I immediately brought up that perceived "sensativities" are irrelevant in our republic because it comes down to property rights. Which he then immediately countered with rhetoric about how islam seems to be the only religion that has suicide bombers and how he would have been okay with it if the muslims had gone around to firehouses assuring people that their intentions were nothing but good...



The professor is a nitwit....but there is really no point in negotiating with him. Just figure out what he wants to hear, and be done with it. Unless you don't care that much what you get.

It's no different than if you are an employee and you talk politics with your boss. Naturally you don't push his buttons or try to provoke him you just avoid the subject completely and just nod your head when he says something. That's why politics is a dumb subject for school anyways.

You could have just stressed ideas that you think may have appealed to him more like freedom of religion and freedom of speech, and talk about how moderate Islam can be peaceful in some areas. Or whatever it is he wants to hear.

oyarde
08-25-2010, 07:12 PM
Muslims certainly are NOT the only people who have used suicide attacks (whether bombing, using planes as in 9-11, or otherwise). Historically, there have been many examples of suicide attacks, often against military targets, but against civilian as well. Probably the best known example was the Japanese during WW2.

As someone else mentioned, the non-Muslim Tamils in Sri Lanka were responsible for a huge number of suicide bombings from the 1980's to early 2000's- they managed to kill the President of Sri Lanka as well as R. Gandhi, the former Indian PM.

BTW, we had a non-Muslim suicide attack in the USA this year- the guy who filled his plane with fuel and flew it into a government building in Austin, Texas.

The Tamil Tigers pretty well perfected the suicide belt.

silus
08-25-2010, 07:21 PM
a non-liberal college professor? where is this?
Cause every position has to be characterized as either liberal or conservative...:rolleyes:

LibertyVox
08-25-2010, 07:29 PM
Just got out of my new Philosophy "critical thinking" class that I have this semester and he just spent a solid half hour of the class talking about how the NYC mosque should not be built because it's insensative.... I immediately brought up that perceived "sensativities" are irrelevant in our republic because it comes down to property rights. Which he then immediately countered with rhetoric about how islam seems to be the only religion that has suicide bombers and how he would have been okay with it if the muslims had gone around to firehouses assuring people that their intentions were nothing but good...

I feel sorry for you dude/dudette. Much ado 'bout nuffin. If this is the "critical thinking professor", then the future is bright for you. For it would mean you're wiser way beyond your years.

I have had severe disagreements with my professors too. Lucky for me they all happen to be liberal (in the American sense of the word). No matter how much stubborn or ego-centric they might be, you walk out respecting them, since

1) They usually don't say so completely and utterly idiotic and childish, so as to make you feel you were probably better off reading the book by yourself.
2) Manners. And common courtesy and patience. At least more often than not. Perhaps because "liberal" campuses tend to have very strict "sensitivity" and "instructional " guidelines.

Try getting yourself into one of those "liberal" "elitist" institutions. lol. At the very least you'll have a blast and not walk out of a class with an impending feeling of an ulcer.

MRK
08-25-2010, 07:38 PM
Hit the eject button and add a new class, IMHO. Then continue showing up to the old class for as long as you can manage before the professor notices you're no longer on the roster.

That way you can introduce potent counter-arguments without fear of hurting your GPA, and at the same time still enlighten the students within the class.

Reason
08-25-2010, 07:43 PM
I feel sorry for you dude/dudette. Much ado 'bout nuffin. If this is the "critical thinking professor", then the future is bright for you. For it would mean you're wiser way beyond your years.

I have had severe disagreements with my professors too. Lucky for me they all happen to be liberal (in the American sense of the word). No matter how much stubborn or ego-centric they might be, you walk out respecting them, since

1) They usually don't say so completely and utterly idiotic and childish, so as to make you feel you were probably better off reading the book by yourself.
2) Manners. And common courtesy and patience. At least more often than not. Perhaps because "liberal" campuses tend to have very strict "sensitivity" and "instructional " guidelines.

Try getting yourself into one of those "liberal" "elitist" institutions. lol. At the very least you'll have a blast and not walk out of a class with an impending feeling of an ulcer.

Yeah, I have had a few left leaning professors before that I was always able to have intelligent discussions with and still respect at the end of the day.

I am also confident that they may have changed their perspectives on a few issues due to my discussions with them in class :cool:

LibertyVox
08-25-2010, 07:48 PM
Yeah, I have had a few left leaning professors before that I was always able to have intelligent discussions with and still respect at the end of the day.

I am also confident that they may have changed their perspectives on a few issues due to my discussions with them in class :cool:

And that's how one cultivates life long friendships with ones mentors. The student becomes a better learner if he/she has a good teacher. And the professor a better instructor/lecturer/teacher because of such a student with an insatiable thirst to "know more."

And that's how breakthroughs are made. Einstein said he saw as far as he could see because he himself stood on the shoulders of giants.

Reason
08-26-2010, 07:48 PM
I emailed the professor Ron Paul's statement on the topic as well as this article

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/06/22/AR2005062202335.html

Natalie
08-26-2010, 07:55 PM
You should watch this video and learn from RP.

YouTube - CNN: Ron Paul Interview Anderson Cooper 360 Aug.23, 2010 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ziB4oS3Wc50)

Natalie
08-26-2010, 08:10 PM
Ya my parents live in San Diego and they hate Muslims now too. Must be something in the water.

This is really embarrassing, but my mom also hates Muslims now. We got into a huge fight about it a few weeks ago and still haven't spoken. She told me she wanted to go protest the mosque, and I completely freaked out. Like seriously, how can anybody be so stupid? My own mother too. *Facepalm* Although, politics aside, we've always had a rocky relationship.



I had the best professor ever this summer for Philosophy. I disagreed with him on everything, sometimes I think he just wanted to debate with me. He gave me allllll As on everything because he cared more about my effort, and didn't grade on agreement.



I had a great Ethics teacher like that in the spring. He was a white hippie liberal with dreadlocks, but he didn't care what your position was as long as you argued your point well. I got an A in his class even though I'm pretty sure we disagreed on most things. I signed up for his Philosophy class this semester.

jmdrake
08-26-2010, 08:16 PM
Rupert Murdoch is building the mosque? I didn't know he was Muslim. Wow. The things you can learn here!

Newscorps second largest shareholder is (according to Fox) funding the mosque and funding "radical madrases". Now ask yourself this, why would you want to invest your money in "radical Islam" and simultaneously invest your money in the one major U.S. network that consistently attacks "radical Islam"? If you answer "problem - reaction - solution" then you understand the Hegalian dialectic. If you answer "It seemed like a good investment at the time" then you don't.

jmdrake
08-26-2010, 08:21 PM
This is really embarrassing, but my mom also hates Muslims now. We got into a huge fight about it a few weeks ago and still haven't spoken. She told me she wanted to go protest the mosque, and I completely freaked out. Like seriously, how can anybody be so stupid? My own mother too. *Facepalm* Although, politics aside, we've always had a rocky relationship.


Well my inlaws don't understand why I don't love Obama and sometimes I have to explain it again to some of my blood relatives. That's just our lot in life I suppose. I find it's best to broach these subjects indirectly. Is your mom a Bush supporter? Does she now that Bush sent this very same Imam overseas as an ambassador of goodwill? Does she know that the second biggest Fox shareholder funds (according to Fox) "radical madrases"? I don't know if that will help or not. I haven't tried it with any of my neocon friends.

Natalie
08-26-2010, 08:43 PM
Well my inlaws don't understand why I don't love Obama and sometimes I have to explain it again to some of my blood relatives. That's just our lot in life I suppose. I find it's best to broach these subjects indirectly. Is your mom a Bush supporter? Does she now that Bush sent this very same Imam overseas as an ambassador of goodwill? Does she know that the second biggest Fox shareholder funds (according to Fox) "radical madrases"? I don't know if that will help or not. I haven't tried it with any of my neocon friends.

My mom currently claims to be a Republican, but she switches parties every election. This is also really embarrassing, but in 2000, she supported Al Gore because she thought he was handsome. I'm dead serious. This last election she liked Hillary only because she was a woman. I thought about sending her that Ron Paul/Anderson Cooper video, because she sort of likes Ron Paul, but the sound is broken on her computer. My mom is not a normal person though, so you can't really hold a logical conversation with her. My bf Josh met her and was like, yeah, your mom is fucking nuts. Lol. Oh well, at least I have a nice dad and stepmother.

jmdrake
08-26-2010, 08:46 PM
My mom currently claims to be a Republican, but she switches parties every election. This is also really embarrassing, but in 2000, she supported Al Gore because she thought he was handsome. I'm dead serious. This last election she liked Hillary only because she was a woman. I thought about sending her that Ron Paul/Anderson Cooper video, because she sort of likes Ron Paul, but the sound is broken on her computer. My mom is not a normal person though, so you can't really hold a logical conversation with her. My bf Josh met her and was like, yeah, your mom is fucking nuts. Lol. Oh well, at least I have a nice dad and stepmother.

http://www.golivewire.com/forums/img.cgi?i=74121

Ok, I've got to ask. Did she vote for McCain or Obama? Anyway if she likes Ron Paul there's hope.

jmdrake
08-26-2010, 08:49 PM
Just got out of my new Philosophy "critical thinking" class that I have this semester and he just spent a solid half hour of the class talking about how the NYC mosque should not be built because it's insensative.... I immediately brought up that perceived "sensativities" are irrelevant in our republic because it comes down to property rights. Which he then immediately countered with rhetoric about how islam seems to be the only religion that has suicide bombers and how he would have been okay with it if the muslims had gone around to firehouses assuring people that their intentions were nothing but good...

The first sentence itself is just chock full of irony. :D

There is one possibility though. Sometimes professors will say stuff they don't even agree with themselves just to see what kind of argument you come up with. Think "Yoda irritates Luke Skywalker". Then sometimes professors are just as clueless as anyone else.

Epic
08-26-2010, 08:51 PM
WTF... philosophy teachers are generally hardcore left-wingers

How come this one is "right-wing" on a really sucky issue to be "right-wing" on?

Natalie
08-26-2010, 08:51 PM
Ok, I've got to ask. Did she vote for McCain or Obama? Anyway if she likes Ron Paul there's hope.

This is actually pretty cool... She voted for Bob Barr!! It was the first time she's ever voted Libertarian! But only because my brother and I guilted her into believing that if she voted for McCain, my brother would be drafted and sent to Iraq, haha.

jmdrake
08-26-2010, 08:54 PM
This is actually pretty cool... She voted for Bob Barr!! It was the first time she's ever voted Libertarian! But only because my brother and I guilted her into believing that if she voted for McCain, my brother would be drafted and sent to Iraq, haha.

Whatever works! And when your brother is too old to be drafted then (maybe) you'll be able to say "But think about your grand-kids"!

KCIndy
08-26-2010, 09:01 PM
I emailed the professor Ron Paul's statement on the topic as well as this article

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/06/22/AR2005062202335.html


I really wish you well on bringing the guy around... but if he's going to be intractable I would also suggest you keep your own best interests (your grade!) in mind. Worst case - just hunker down and don't let him draw you into a debate. Tell him what he wants to hear on any essays, tests or class discussions.

Then, *after* you're out of his class and the grades have been finalized, come back for a visit and tell him he is, without a doubt, the most head-up-the-ass dumbf*ck ever to suck his way into a teaching assignment, and that for the good of the entire human race you urge him not to reproduce.

:D

MelissaWV
08-27-2010, 06:46 AM
This is really embarrassing, but my mom also hates Muslims now. We got into a huge fight about it a few weeks ago and still haven't spoken. She told me she wanted to go protest the mosque, and I completely freaked out. Like seriously, how can anybody be so stupid? My own mother too. *Facepalm* Although, politics aside, we've always had a rocky relationship.

...

My dad is one racist SOB, which is ironic in too many ways to get started on. He has pretty ridiculous stands on a lot of issues. Being that he now lives so close to Dove World Outreach and they're doing the book-burning, I started to think he might get involved, which would really suck, but instead we had a good discussion about it and joked about taking over trash to be incinerated since they're already going to have an illegal fire going. I had originally talked about taking a Bible to burn, since Islam holds that Jesus is a prophet, and the Bible is chock full of mentions of that guy... but dad didn't quite go for that one.

Anyhow, the point is that (as your other post pointed out) there's a ray of hope for most people at some time or another. Dad was pretty into Ron Paul, and still maintains knowledge of the guy. He even asked me the other day "Ron Paul's son is a Tea Party member?" and I explained how that came about, and the history of "tea parties" within the movement. If there are enough people with at least this bit of awareness, campaigns will have more and more success until someone breaks that trust or causes that awareness to be associated with something so negative that people rush back to being 100% two-partiers.

Todd
08-27-2010, 06:53 AM
Just got out of my new Philosophy "critical thinking" class that I have this semester and he just spent a solid half hour of the class talking about how the NYC mosque should not be built because it's insensative.... I immediately brought up that perceived "sensativities" are irrelevant in our republic because it comes down to property rights. Which he then immediately countered with rhetoric about how islam seems to be the only religion that has suicide bombers and how he would have been okay with it if the muslims had gone around to firehouses assuring people that their intentions were nothing but good...

Only "religion"?
It has only a bit to do with it.

Ask him about the Tamil Tigers....or Japanese Kamikaze......or Vietkong suicide attacks

Austrian Econ Disciple
08-27-2010, 07:01 AM
WTF... philosophy teachers are generally hardcore left-wingers

How come this one is "right-wing" on a really sucky issue to be "right-wing" on?

There are a lot of very good libertarian philosophy professors out there. My problem is with the deterministic professors. They irritate me to no end! :D

John of Des Moines
08-27-2010, 07:30 AM
Just got out of my new Philosophy "critical thinking" class that I have this semester and he just spent a solid half hour of the class talking about how the NYC mosque should not be built because it's insensative.... I immediately brought up that perceived "sensativities" are irrelevant in our republic because it comes down to property rights. Which he then immediately countered with rhetoric about how islam seems to be the only religion that has suicide bombers and how he would have been okay with it if the muslims had gone around to firehouses assuring people that their intentions were nothing but good...

So you're taking a Critical Thinking class and the professor starts off the semester with a loaded statement. Take your textbook and go to the chapter called "Informal Logic" or "Fallacies" - they-re one in the same. Read through the listed fallacies and try to spot the ones he's using. At the very least he's used Appeal to Fear in his argument.

Then point out that the only people arrested on 9-11 whose arrests were related to the attacks were the "Dancing Israelis" who were Mossad agents so there should be no synagogues should be built near the Trade Center site.

Or, you could take care of your professor problem by inviting him and the Department head out to lunch, talk a little, then say you have to go to the bathroom - better yet ask permission to go then:



YouTube - The Godfather - Michael Kills Sollozzo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1kTQFyMRSXk)


But then you got to move the Sicily for a while. :rolleyes:

MelissaWV
08-27-2010, 07:50 AM
Incidentally, I'm with the people who think this is most likely an exercise meant to make the class think. As a professor, it would be a good way to start off a class (by making an argument loaded with inconsistencies, factual errors, and logical fallacies).

If not... well... yeah. This guy's an idiot.

lucius
08-27-2010, 09:06 AM
Just got out of my new Philosophy "critical thinking" class that I have this semester and he just spent a solid half hour of the class talking about how the NYC mosque should not be built because it's insensative.... I immediately brought up that perceived "sensativities" are irrelevant in our republic because it comes down to property rights. Which he then immediately countered with rhetoric about how islam seems to be the only religion that has suicide bombers and how he would have been okay with it if the muslims had gone around to firehouses assuring people that their intentions were nothing but good...

Just tell him what he wants to hear...jump through his hoops...and get on with your life...he is a fool...'those who can do: those who can't, teach (except me :rolleyes:)'

AuH20
08-27-2010, 11:46 AM
Does he defend the muslim community's property rights or simply thinks it's a bad location choice? I personally think this idea to build a such a highly symbolic structure like a mosque so close to Ground Zero could be characterized as borderline provocation, in light of the religious motivated incident that occurred there recently, but no one should be able to impugn their constitutionally guaranteed rights.

Brian4Liberty
08-27-2010, 11:59 AM
His last lesson of the semester was just 40 minutes of bashing Rand Paul (and managed to slip in a bashing of Ron, and Ayn Rand).


Why is that allowed? Are all teachers political officers now?


WTF... philosophy teachers are generally hardcore left-wingers

How come this one is "right-wing" on a really sucky issue to be "right-wing" on?

One issue doesn't make him right wing. If you recall, the vast majority of hard core left-wingers were for the war in Iraq and the "war" on terrorism.

dannno
08-27-2010, 11:59 AM
This is really embarrassing, but my mom also hates Muslims now. We got into a huge fight about it a few weeks ago and still haven't spoken. She told me she wanted to go protest the mosque, and I completely freaked out. Like seriously, how can anybody be so stupid? My own mother too. *Facepalm* Although, politics aside, we've always had a rocky relationship.

Ya she was actually debating me on the topic until I sent her Ron Paul's statement, then she hasn't talked about it since. Not sure why, but I know she has a lot of respect for him....which is why i was so amazed that she was so much against it in the first place, and completely bought the whole "every Muslim is trying to take over the world" bit..