This Film and my Ron Paul conversion

[goldenequity]

I was a disenchanted neo con feeling a little sick.:(

I had an uneasy feeling about damn near everything political.

After watching this film, something snapped. Seriously.
http://www.ronpaulaudio.com/rpaudio/TheRevolutionWillNotBeTelevised2003.wvx (http://www.ronpaulaudio.com/rpaudio/TheRevolutionWillNotBeTelevised2003.wvx)

I put it on www.ronpaulaudio.com (http://www.ronpaulaudio.com)because of how powerful it was in my conversion, and how much it applies to our situation as Ron Paul supporters.

It (the film) can be downloaded or streamviewed at www.ronpaulaudio.com (http://www.ronpaulaudio.com)

It will rock your world(view).:)

[angelatc]

Welcome! There's a lot of us "neocons who woke up" here.

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=1767 will introduce you to some of us.

[Andrew76]

Hey, I'm curious to understand how a documentary about a socialist dictator, Hugo Chavez, from Venezuala is somehow related our situation here with Ron Paul? Most of the comments for this movie on Youtube are deplorable, "Chavez nationalizing our nations wealth was the right thing to do," "Venezuala is a rich country but now our wealth belongs to the rich and the poor." I could go on. Am I missing something? Please correct me if I'm mistaken.

[sifupaul]

You don't have to agree with all of the man's politics, but are you able to acknowledge his true caring for the people of Venezulea? Are you able to even discuss what the CIA has been doing to him and that country? or does the tag "socialist dictator" keep it all comfortable for your perception? One man's dictator is another man's freedom fighter.

Look at his actions for crying out loud!

[Brandybuck]

Look at his actions for crying out loud!
I have. The man is a socialist totalitarian. There is no way around it.

[AgentSmith]

I have. The man is a socialist totalitarian. There is no way around it.

HAH No Doubt!

[vertesc]

I have to agree with Andrew. Chavez is a good example of a problem caused by our interventionist policy, but that's it. The man is a communist - by definition, he is diametrically opposed to the principles of individual property rights for which RP stands. At the very least, it's confusing to use the example of Chavez, especially since he's such a posterboy for the neo-communist movement.

[Andrew76]

Yeah, I think trying to make a connection between the result of democratic tyranny like Hugo Chavez and presidential hopeful Ron Paul is a bit of a stretch. I think it is you who should examine your admiration of a socialist dictator like Hugo Chavez. I firmly agree that the U.S. should not be meddling in their affairs. But Hugo Chavez caring about the people??? Are you kidding me? How in the world is stealing money from people at the point of a gun, "caring about the people of venezuela,"?

I think Ayn Rand said it quite well...

"Man—every man—is an end in himself, not the means to the ends of others. He must exist for his own sake, neither sacrificing himself to others nor sacrificing others to himself. The pursuit of his own rational self-interest and of his own happiness is the highest moral purpose of his life.

The ideal political-economic system is laissez-faire capitalism. It is a system where men deal with one another, not as victims and executioners, nor as masters and slaves, but as traders, by free, voluntary exchange to mutual benefit. It is a system where no man may obtain any values from others by resorting to physical force, and no man may initiate the use of physical force against others. The government acts only as a policeman that protects man's rights; it uses physical force only in retaliation and only against those who initiate its use, such as criminals or foreign invaders. In a system of full capitalism, there should be (but, historically, has not yet been) a complete separation of state and economics, in the same way and for the same reasons as the separation of state and church."

Hugo Chavez is deciding FOR the venezualans what is best for them. He may have popular support at the moment because he's saying thing they want to hear.
Are you aware that after he was "elected," that over 90% of the workforce went on strike, putting in particular, the oil refineries, at a stand still? There were mass protests when he was elected and what did Chavez do? He had his gang of militia men open fire on the protestors. He has openly declared that he shall rule by decree, and yet you find reason to support him? Again, our meddling in their affairs is unnacceptable. They need to work out their own self governance. But defending Chavez, is to me, morally impossible. Furthermore, Ron Paul's views are diametrically opposed to Chavez's. Chavez wants *complete* and total control over the government, and in fact now has it. "Redistributing" the wealth of a nation is nothing more than theft at the point of a gun, and cannot in any way shape or form be rationally defended.

[goldenequity]

Hi again.....

This documentary was my wake up call. I still love it for what it is.

It continues to do to others what it did for me.....as I'm getting private messaging from this forum members and emails from the website saying they "get" it and "love" the film for what it is.

It is a great example to watch how media controls people's heads.... here AND there.

What if an entire nation of people (ok, let’s say 80% of its citizens) wanted something different than what big corporations wanted? What if they wanted something different than what the United States government wanted?

Ron Paul’s point regarding the motives behind the 911 attack was to point out to Giuliani that the U.S. did that very thing in 1953 and they still resent it. We, the United States CIA and British Petroleum orchestrated, under the guise of democracy, the covert overthrow of Iran’s popular and overwhelmingly elected Prime Minister Mohammed Mosedec and installed the Shah. Why? Oil, plain and simple. The episode is documented and of historical record for those who care to do more research on the incident. The overthrow was dubbed operation Ajax and led by a grandson of the former president Theodore Roosevelt.

The CIA uses the term “blowback” to describe the effect of bitter resentment being carried forward and influencing current events. The CIA’s 911 report pointed this out and Giuliani acted as if this was a novel thought, that “He’d never heard of that before”.

Let’s move on you say. The Ron Paul vs. Giuliani thing happened more than a week ago. All this is old news now, besides, that happened in 1953. That was a mistake of a long gone administration. We don’t do that stuff anymore.

We don’t? Take one hour of your time and watch this 2003 Irish documentary film.

What if an entire nation of people, (ok, let’s say a majority of its citizens) wanted something different than what big corporations and the United States government wanted? What if large corporations and the U.S. government went ahead and forced their will on that nation’s people and did it anyway?

What if the people are us and the 2008 elections? Like I said, watch the documentary.

[hambone1982]

I like how Hugo Chavez stands up to Bush and isn't afraid of him like the rest of the world, but after I started reading about how he is killing a lot of dissenters and shutting down opposition TV stations and consolidating more power, he's starting take on a Castro-esque dictator appearance.

I don't think that it is any of our business and we should stay out of Venezuelan affairs, but we should always oppose evil acts.

In this case I do not believe that "my enemy's enemy is my friend."

[SeekLiberty]

I have. The man is a socialist totalitarian. There is no way around it.

And our president is a fascist dictator. Of whom do you think is the nicer and more sincere person?

Don't forget that Chavez was democratically elected by the people and the majority LOVE him as much as we love Ron Paul. He is teaching them how to read and learn their governments' Constitution ... which is their rule of law, and to learn about their rights.

Yes, they are a socialist country. But isn't our government? I could go on and on about how ours is too. Not to say it's supposed to be ... that's why I support Ron Paul. I hate socialism!

It seems amazing to criticize harshly another duly elected leader of another country, if that's who their people want, and not emphasize the problem with our own "leader" ... if one dignifies Bush as that.

Their people seem to like national oil (which a coup tried to steal for private big oil interests) and pay only 14 cents a gallon for gas.

People need to stop listening to propaganda.

Let their people have the leader they WANT. That goes for us too.

I will elaborate more in another post.

[MsDoodahs]

I'm on dial up, so I am not downloading a film.

I take it the posts author is claiming to be both a Chavez fan and at the same time a Ron Paul fan?

:confused:

[SeekLiberty]

Hugo Chavez is deciding FOR the venezualans what is best for them. He may have popular support at the moment because he's saying thing they want to hear.
Are you aware that after he was "elected," that over 90% of the workforce went on strike, putting in particular, the oil refineries, at a stand still? There were mass protests when he was elected and what did Chavez do? He had his gang of militia men open fire on the protestors. He has openly declared that he shall rule by decree, and yet you find reason to support him? Again, our meddling in their affairs is unnacceptable. They need to work out their own self governance. But defending Chavez, is to me, morally impossible. Furthermore, Ron Paul's views are diametrically opposed to Chavez's. Chavez wants *complete* and total control over the government, and in fact now has it. "Redistributing" the wealth of a nation is nothing more than theft at the point of a gun, and cannot in any way shape or form be rationally defended.

LOL. I think some have missed the point of the original post by GoldenEquity. I believe the point was to show the power of THE PEOPLE, and that's exactly what that video proves which is inspiring. The point is in no way of support of socialism.

"He had his gang of militia men open fire on the protestors."

100% not true my patriot friend. I know you mean well but that's propaganda by private media. You have it backwards. Watch the video GoldenEquity posted. It's on google too.

The Coup of illegal politicians, wrong-headed military, with a complicit private media, led by the CIA, tried to overtake Chavez with an installed dictatorship and administration and wipe out their elected president, the peoples congress, the courts, and the Venezualan constitution all in one fell swoop!

The Coup lasted for 2 days but the people revolted and demanded President Chavez back.

Watch the video my friends! It's shocking!

Thank you GoldenEquity for posting TRUTH on your site. I really appreciate it. Keep up the great work! Americans need to wake out of their matrix that our government and corporate media has put them in.

Welcome here GoldenEquity to real freedom lovers and supporters of Ron Paul. Don't let anybody take away what you've personally realized as truth.

For example: Some people, even here, would try to make you believe the 9/11 Official Story. Read about the contradictions, though, on the link in the bottom of my signature here.

Thank you for your dedication GoldenEquity.

Go Ron Paul! :-)

[1k9]

I don't like it.

It's just the type of thing that CNN or FOX would love to connect Ron to.

[SeekLiberty]

I'm on dial up, so I am not downloading a film.

I take it the posts author is claiming to be both a Chavez fan and at the same time a Ron Paul fan?

:confused:

So get unconfused from people who would try to confuse you. ;-)

You can watch it on google with streaming media here for your slow connection.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5832390545689805144

This is a documentary made from ANOTHER COUNTRY, not Venezuela.

Truth to power my friends! Pay it forward!

"On April 12th 2002 the world awoke to the news that Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez had been removed from office and had been replaced by a new interim government. What had in fact taken place was the first Latin American coup of the 21st century, and the world's first media coup..."

http://www.chavezthefilm.com/index_ex.htm

"Irish Television programme judged best in the world

"An RTÉ True Lives documentary, which broadcast to wide audience acclaim in February, was last night acclaimed by an international jury as "the best television programme in the world this year" - against competition that included Hollywood's West Wing and major drama and current affairs from BBC and CBS.
The Banff Rockie Awards 2003 were announced in Canada last night and the Global Television Grand Prize / Grand Prix Global was awarded to Chavez - Inside the Coup, Power Pictures Ltd. in association with RTÉ/ The Irish Film Board/BBC/ZDF/ARTE/NPS/CoBo/ YLE."

http://www.chavezthefilm.com/html/film/banff_release.htm

[MsDoodahs]

LOL. I think some have missed the point of the original post by GoldenEquity. I believe the point was to show the power of THE PEOPLE, and that's exactly what that video proves which is inspiring. The point is in no way of support of socialism.



Ah! I see!

The film shows that even when the CIA, military, etc, tried to toss Chavez because the US Fedgov didn't like him, **the power of the people** reigned supreme and Chavez did NOT get tossed.

So it's a reference to the success of the voices of the people against a show of gov't power, NOT a reference to Chavez' philosophy.

Whew. That's a relief. :)

[Andrew76]

"And our president is a fascist dictator. Of whom do you think is the nicer and more sincere person?"

George Bush is a corporatist, neocon fool, but hardly the literal interpretation of "fascist dictator." Chavez is a brutal dictator who silences opposition by killing them with his militia. That is a fact. Furthermore, the supporting of socialist ideals as Hugo Chavez does is far more evil than anything George Bush has done so far. Don't get me wrong, I'm not a fan of Bush, but you're way way out there with this comparison.

"Don't forget that Chavez was democratically elected by the people and the majority LOVE him as much as we love Ron Paul. He is teaching them how to read and learn their governments' Constitution ... which is their rule of law, and to learn about their rights."

Um, Bush was "democratically" elected as well. The U.S. is not now, nor was it ever intended to be a true democracy, but instead a Constitutional Republic based on the rule of law. Democratic tyranny is a thing the founders tried very hard to avoid, ie: 51% of the population telling 49% of the population how to live. People also loved Hitler, so just because people love Chavez now, doesn't mean anything. Furthermore, vast multitudes of Venezualans thoroughly understand what he is trying to do, and hate him. And... uh, "learn about their rights?" RIGHTS? What rights? You have NO rights under a socialist dictatorship. Nothing is yours, not even your own life. Everything is sacrificed for the "common good," ie: for the state, because someone else "needs," it. To speak of their "rights," is to speak of something that does not exist in Venezuala.

"Yes, they are a socialist country. But isn't our government? I could go on and on about how ours is too. Not to say it's supposed to be ... that's why I support Ron Paul. I hate socialism!"

You cannot simultaneously hate socialism and support Chavez. And no again, we are not a socialist country, ...yet. We are leaning that way. France, UK, Sweden, Canada, Mexico, etc. are all much more socialist than we are. For example, they all have socialized medicine, whereas we do not.



"It seems amazing to criticize harshly another duly elected leader of another country, if that's who their people want, and not emphasize the problem with our own "leader" ... if one dignifies Bush as that."

Why is it amazing? If their leader is a socialist dictator who wants to rule not by law, but by decree (as he currently does), it is right to criticize him, elected or not. This is starting to get into that moral relativist territory where "some things are right for us, and not right for other people." Socialism is a failed idea, no matter where it is or who wants it. If a majority of people want it, that does not make it right. As to us not emphasizing our problems with Bush.. uh... what? This is the Ron Paul forum. Quite clearly we are anti-Bush, no need to elaborate.

"Their people seem to like national oil (which a coup tried to steal for private big oil interests) and pay only 14 cents a gallon for gas."

Of course the poor people like nationalized oil, they do nothing to earn the profits, and yet they still see money for work they didn't do. Hooray socialism! The point is, SOMEONE is doing the work, SOMEONE is refining the oil. Are you saying that the people of Venezuala have a right to the work that they didn't do? It does not follow that if you happen to be born in a geographic region that is rich in natural resources, that you deserve a share of the profits. If I'm from the midwest U.S. where tons of corn and grain are grown every year, does that mean that I deserve a share of the money earned from the sale of the corn, simply because I live here, or that I "need" the money? It is an impossible argument.
They pay 14 "cents" a gallon for gas because their gas is heavily subsidized, ie: tax money (money taken by force from people who earned it) is used to pay for most of it before it gets to the consumer. It is an illusion.

"People need to stop listening to propaganda."

Well, I couldn't agree more.

"Let their people have the leader they WANT. That goes for us too.
I will elaborate more in another post."

Absolutely, let them have the leader they want. IF that's truly what they want, then let em have it.

Ok, I did my part and watched the film, now all I'd ask is that you read Atlas Shrugged, by late novelist Ayn Rand. Ron Paul is a huge fan. You should really check it out as it explains all of this much more thoroughly than I can.

[SeekLiberty]

I don't like it.

It's just the type of thing that CNN or FOX would love to connect Ron to.

I have a problem with not exposing truth for political reasons.

Americans should be encouraged to look into things for themselves. What it does is wake them up out of their matrix, and HELPS them see they need Ron Paul as our president. I know this as a fact from first-hand experience. Apparently the documentary got us at least one more Ron Paul supporter in an indirect way.

Main-Stream media is losing credibility fast. The stunts pulled by CNN in this last debate are getting exposed to millions of people!

Nobody should fear the truth being told.

[arrowhead]

I think the point is that we have been interferring with the affairs of sovereign countries for over half a century. When Ron Paul states that 911 was partly caused by "blowback" from our foreign policy, he is right. And Rudy does not have a clue. Its a powerful documentary because we see the CIA interference in action.
WE NEED TO KEEP OUR NOZE OUT OF OTHER NATIONS BUSINESS. SO WHAT IF CHEAP OIL IS AT STAKE.

[Andrew76]

"100% not true my patriot friend. I know you mean well but that's propaganda by private media. You have it backwards. Watch the video GoldenEquity posted. It's on google too."


Absolutely incorrect. Your hero is a liar, as are all socialist dictators. You have been betrayed by this "documentary." I challenge any one of you to google this phrase, "Hugo Chavez silences protestors." You will find my point vindicated, ohh.... literally about 1000 times. Media conspiracy? Hardly. Defending this man is nothing short of insanity, and I for one, cannot beleive it is happening in the Ron Paul forum, dedicated to a man who's opposition to Hugo Chavez is unquestionable and absolute.

Yes, it is wrong that the U.S. got involved. No, Hugo Chavez is not a good man, but in fact a brutal, totalitarian dictator. You simply cannot argue your way out of this hole. Look up his 49 "decrees," look up information on his Bolivarian Circle. That documentary only gets the U.S. involvement part correct, but failed miserably on critiquing Chavez for stealing people's rights and livelihood by force.

[1k9]

I agree with your premise that free speech should never be quieted, but that doesn't mean that it can't be challenged. Your addition of the movie to this forum makes a link to Ron Paul, and I would agree that you may have a right to post it, I think it makes a connection to a socialist movement. I'm not proud of it, but I do watch a lot of MSM and I am always seeing things being taken out of context. Besides, I personally am offended by governments who control their people like Chavez does. Whatever your reasoning is for liking the video, I commend you, but when I was watching it, I felt as though it was nothing but propaganda against the US, and for Chavez.

Just my opinion

[Revolution9]

And here I thought the movie was about a democratically elected popular leader of the people of Venezuela being taken out in a CIA sponsored and elite backed coup.

The army was cut off from communicastions and could not rush to his aid in the first hours of the coup. The will of the people themselves against the media and PTB who were complicit in the coup dissolving the government and proclaiming themselves the new government..like tinhorn dictators are wont to do..is the centerpoint of the story..

No matter how they tried to use the media and their "emergency powers" derived from their own profligate criminality and inablty to win an unrigged election with one of their own sockpuppets, the people marched with their household tools. pots and pans banging away as the colorful and expressive latin peoples are prone to do when pissed off at their governments actions. They surrounded the Presidential Palace in the hundreds of thousands holding the coup clowns hostage in the house they wished to ideologically occupy to financially extract and manipulate Venezuelas natural wealth through more of the same and even greater continuous transactional insertion.Finally the communication lines were established between loyal government forces and the whereabouts of Hugo were known and a rescue mission sent with some serious miltary from Venezuelas government loyal forces.

Looked to me like the Venezuelans were happy he was back when he returned.

At least that was what I though it was about..When you mess with the will of the people and try to take out the man they have chosen as their man who speaks for them then you can expect "blowback" from the masses.. Pissed off people on the streets are not at home watching the TV to swallow the propaganda.. The guy who proclaimed he was the new Attorney General or some crap with his PTB oil rich goon squad milling in pathetic obsequiousness around the hall reminds me of Romney.

The TV station the elected government did not renew the license for was complicit in the coup and broadcast seditiously. It has become somewhat of a public TV channel part of the braodcast spectrum. They still have several others on the air AFAIK. This is a mild slap on the wrist for their treason,. He is being kind. They could be shot at Leavenworth in the US for the same thing.

But ..isn't that their business what they do in their country? Tossing labels around is getting passe.. Can you point to specific dictatorial acts like we can with Bush for instance? [messing with Habeus Corpus come to mind as well as the doctrine of pre-emptive war and rule by propaganda] Ya do gotta hand it to the guy for supplying oil to some of the poorer neighborhoods at deep discounts or free as well as native Alaskan aboriginales. Looks to me he is just trying to right some wrongs..

A continuing public disourse on the issue in a civil and democratic fashion can be viewed at this link.. Looks like balanced coverage to me and proper explanations of their country's political workings and dynamic..

http://www.venezuelanalysis.com/


BTW..I see people having to resort to personal mesaaging to speak truths other do not want to hear or mouthed. I ask.. Is this America and the Ron Paul forums where free and open exchange and sharing of opinion is sacrosanct and not to be be bullied? I have seen voluminous ad hominem attacks and straw man gambits directed at Venezuelas landslide elected leader but no facts laid out coherently..mere propaganda..a staple of communism BTW... Why? and why the shyness to speak opinions publicly and hide behind PM's? Don't be bullied. Don't bully. You want your country back?? The Venezuelans do too.

As a Canadian part of the problem with American popele when they bluster thoughtlessly about other peoples around the world is their name calling and labelling of others foreign lands and cultures. Hell a good many of them can't even locate the rest of the world on a map of said place if some of the youtube videos are to be seen and believed..As a recipient many times of Canadian "socialized" medicine when i had to fly back because i had no insurance for a US hospital on my youthfull hitchhikings across the states in the mid 70's, i was given royal treatment. Just as a for example.


Best Regards
Randy

[SeekLiberty]

Andrew76 "George Bush is a corporatist, neocon fool, but hardly the literal interpretation of "fascist dictator."

You're going to let Bush off the hook as simply being a fool? His actions speak much louder than writing him off as just a fool. What he's doing is EVIL.

Andrew76 wrote: "Chavez is a brutal dictator who silences opposition by killing them with his militia. That is a fact."

But our brutal killer "I'm the decider" dictator one-ups Chavez by torturing people and killing thousands of Iraqi children, and ruining the infastructure of Iraq (water, power, etc).

Is Chavez doing that? Besides, Chavez is NOT a "brutal" dictator. He did not order his guys to fire on the protesters like you said was "fact." You got that wrong my friend. The media has apparently misled you too like most Americans.

People should be encouraged to watch this documentary and judge for themselves if they think he's a "brutal dictator."

Andrew76 wrote: "Furthermore, the supporting of socialist ideals as Hugo Chavez does is far more evil than anything George Bush has done so far."

14 cents a gallon gas and free education is more evil than torture and killing thousands of Iraqi mothers and children?

Andrew76 wrote: "Don't get me wrong, I'm not a fan of Bush, but you're way way out there with this comparison."

I dont' see how I'm "way other there." :-)

Andrew76 wrote: "The U.S. is not now, nor was it ever intended to be a true democracy, but instead a Constitutional Republic based on the rule of law. Democratic tyranny is a thing the founders tried very hard to avoid, ie: 51% of the population telling 49% of the population how to live."

Agreed. Nothing new to me.

"People also loved Hitler, so just because people love Chavez now, doesn't mean anything."

Now comparing Chavez to Hitler is "way out there." lol. However with the Directive 51 and what Bush is currently up to ... that comparison would come closer for him.

Andrew76 wrote: "You cannot simultaneously hate socialism and support Chavez."

Did I say I "supported" Chavez policies? lol. I just want the truth to be known about how the people of Venezuala REVOLTED to an coup installed dictatoral take-over in which there were no elections for, and was led by our own government! Americans were told a bunch of lies by our neocons and corporate private media.

We need to fix our own home here first before we cry wolf about other government leaderes and set an example to the world again about what true freedom means.

Andrew76 wrote: "And no again, we are not a socialist country, ...yet. We are leaning that way. France, UK, Sweden, Canada, Mexico, etc. are all much more socialist than we are. For example, they all have socialized medicine, whereas we do not."

But we ARE a socialist country. We have a welfare state. Our government robs from Peter to pay Paul. I call that theft. At least Chavez isn't doing that. He believes the wealth of the natural oil resource of their land should be for the general welfare (constitutional sense) of all the people ... not private oil interests and this drives the greedy world elite nuts! That's why so many lies are spewn about Chavez.

Andrew76 wrote: "If their leader is a socialist dictator who wants to rule not by law, but by decree (as he currently does), it is right to criticize him, elected or not."

It's not true he doesn't want rule of law. Did you really watch the movie and understand it? The protesters who were demanding back Chavez, their constitutional government, and rule of law were Chavez supporters. Apparently they don't believe Chavez is a "brutal dictator."

Andrew76 wrote: "Of course the poor people like nationalized oil, they do nothing to earn the profits, and yet they still see money for work they didn't do."

They don't get their oil for nothing. The people still have to pay. Chavez believes their oil is their lands natural resource and the wealth of it should be for the general welfare of all the people. The benefit to the people is to pay 14 cents a gallon versus us making VERY CORRUPT private oil companies (with blood on their hands) rich by gouging us at the pumps for $3.51 a gallon (in my area).

Is that so wrong COMPARED TO the neocon's policy of blood for oil?

Private oil companies are out of control. Chavez knows that. BTW, he offered us very cheap oil if we'd get out of Iraq and the affairs of the middle east. But the neocons turned it down.

We should allow the Iraqi's to decide what they want to do with their natural oil resources too. Instead, international oil companies are trying to steal it with the help of U.S. military industrial complex.

Andrew76 wrote: "If their leader is a socialist dictator who wants to rule not by law, but by decree (as he currently does),"

Where are you getting your information? This simply not true. He's actually teaching the people THEIR constitution ... their rule of law. They love their constitution!

I only wish our own president would insist (like Chavez does) for all Americans to learn our own constitution. lol. I know Ron Paul would!

You and I agree on a lot. I think you think I'm confused and I think you're confused about Chavez. lol. In any case, I'll fight for your right to your opinion! ;-)

Believe me, I hate it when our neocons and corporate media keep on referring to our government as a "democracy" when it's a REPUBLIC.

As I know you know, a democracy is when 2 wolves and a sheep decided what's for breakfast.

MOST of our founding fathers hated democracies and knew we needed a government that could not have a majority vote ... vote out individual rights.

I've read Atlas Shrugged by the way.

I recommend Ron Pauls book "Freedom Under Seige" (online reading link in my signature). I think it's an easier read for most than Atlas.

[SeekLiberty]

And here I thought the movie was about a democratically elected popular leader of the people of Venezuela being taken out in a CIA sponsored and elite backed coup.

The army was cut off from communicastions and could not rush to his aid in the first hours of the coup. The will of the people themselves against the media and PTB who were complicit in the coup dissolving the government and proclaiming themselves the new government..like tinhorn dictators are wont to do..is the centerpoint of the story..

No matter how they tried to use the media and their "emergency powers" derived from their own profligate criminality and inablty to win an unrigged election with one of their own sockpuppets, the people marched with their household tools. pots and pans banging away as the colorful and expressive latin peoples are prone to do when pissed off at their governments actions. They surrounded the Presidential Palace in the hundreds of thousands holding the coup clowns hostage in the house they wished to ideologically occupy to financially extract and manipulate Venezuelas natural wealth through more of the same and even greater continuous transactional insertion.Finally the communication lines were established between loyal government forces and the whereabouts of Hugo were known and a rescue mission sent with some serious miltary from Venezuelas government loyal forces.

Looked to me like the Venezuelans were happy he was back when he returned.

At least that was what I though it was about..When you mess with the will of the people and try to take out the man they have chosen as their man who speaks for them then you can expect "blowback" from the masses.. Pissed off people on the streets are not at home watching the TV to swallow the propaganda.. The guy who proclaimed he was the new Attorney General or some crap with his PTB oil rich goon squad milling in pathetic obsequiousness around the hall reminds me of Romney.

The TV station the elected government did not renew the license for was complicit in the coup and broadcast seditiously. It has become somewhat of a public TV channel part of the braodcast spectrum. They still have several others on the air AFAIK. This is a mild slap on the wrist for their treason,. He is being kind. They could be shot at Leavenworth in the US for the same thing.

But ..isn't that their business what they do in their country? Tossing labels around is getting passe.. Can you point to specific dictatorial acts like we can with Bush for instance? [messing with Habeus Corpus come to mind as well as the doctrine of pre-emptive war and rule by propaganda] Ya do gotta hand it to the guy for supplying oil to some of the poorer neighborhoods at deep discounts or free as well as native Alaskan aboriginales. Looks to me he is just trying to right some wrongs..

A continuing public disourse on the issue in a civil and democratic fashion can be viewed at this link.. Looks like balanced coverage to me and proper explanations of their country's political workings and dynamic..

http://www.venezuelanalysis.com/


BTW..I see people having to resort to personal mesaaging to speak truths other do not want to hear or mouthed. I ask.. Is this America and the Ron Paul forums where free and open exchange and sharing of opinion is sacrosanct and not to be be bullied? I have seen voluminous ad hominem attacks and straw man gambits directed at Venezuelas landslide elected leader but no facts laid out coherently..mere propaganda..a staple of communism BTW... Why? and why the shyness to speak opinions publicly and hide behind PM's? Don't be bullied. Don't bully. You want your country back?? The Venezuelans do too.

As a Canadian part of the problem with American popele when they bluster thoughtlessly about other peoples around the world is their name calling and labelling of others foreign lands and cultures. Hell a good many of them can't even locate the rest of the world on a map of said place if some of the youtube videos are to be seen and believed..As a recipient many times of Canadian "socialized" medicine when i had to fly back because i had no insurance for a US hospital on my youthfull hitchhikings across the states in the mid 70's, i was given royal treatment. Just as a for example.


Best Regards
Randy

Nice compact review and analysis, and the link, Randy. Thank you. Now I hope Americans will be encouraged to LOOK for themselves and discover what's really going on in Venezuela instead of listening to/reading U.S. propaganda from main-stream corporate media.

[SeekLiberty]

"100% not true my patriot friend. I know you mean well but that's propaganda by private media. You have it backwards. Watch the video GoldenEquity posted. It's on google too."


Absolutely incorrect. Your hero is a liar, as are all socialist dictators. You have been betrayed by this "documentary." I challenge any one of you to google this phrase, "Hugo Chavez silences protestors." You will find my point vindicated, ohh.... literally about 1000 times. Media conspiracy? Hardly. Defending this man is nothing short of insanity, and I for one, cannot beleive it is happening in the Ron Paul forum, dedicated to a man who's opposition to Hugo Chavez is unquestionable and absolute.

Yes, it is wrong that the U.S. got involved. No, Hugo Chavez is not a good man, but in fact a brutal, totalitarian dictator. You simply cannot argue your way out of this hole. Look up his 49 "decrees," look up information on his Bolivarian Circle. That documentary only gets the U.S. involvement part correct, but failed miserably on critiquing Chavez for stealing people's rights and livelihood by force.

"Your hero is a liar"

Just the fact that you're spinning Chavez as my "hero" tells me a lot. lol. ... besides playing down Bush as simply a "fool" instead of the mass murder criminal he is. Many patriot Americans are trying hard to get Bush impeached for this. Most the world thinks Bush is a war criminal. Does world opinion think that about Chavez?

The real hero's, whom I respect, are the PEOPLE whom had the nerve to revolt when a coup tried to take over and kidnap their beloved president, destroy their congress, supreme court, and constitution.

The people clearly wanted Chavez back. Have you asked why they would want a "brutal, totalitarian dictator" back as their leader? You'd think that wouldn't make sense to somebody IF Chavez was really "a brutal, totalitarian dictator." Pure logic can't make one buy into that.

Us outside the matrix are screaming for you to take the red pill! ;-)

Why don't you read an article about Chavez's "censorship" here:

http://www.venezuelanalysis.com/articles.php?artno=2044

My suggestion is to get out of the U.S. main-stream media spin-box, and look to other news sources that are more unbiased.