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Anti Federalist
08-24-2010, 02:02 PM
Glenn Beck Is a Statist, Not a Libertarian

Posted by J.H. Huebert on August 24, 2010 07:54 AM

http://www.lewrockwell.com/blog/lewrw/archives/64288.html

At the beginning of his show this morning, Glenn Beck started ripping into the imam that all the talk-radio hosts love to hate, because the imam has (correctly) pointed out that the U.S. has killed many more innocent non-Muslims than al-Qaeda has.

Beck went on to defend the U.S. embargo against Iraq that killed hundreds of thousands of innocent people during the 1990s, argued that we should have fought the Iraq war “full on” from the beginning (meaning we shouldn’t have been so squeamish — as if “we” were — about killing innocent people), and claimed that the current U.S. government is the only one in the history of the world that has ever fought wars in a manner that avoided killing civilians.

Last year, Beck promoted a rally in Washington to protest the federal government’s taxing and spending. This year, he’s holding a rally to glorify the U.S. military. Can there be any doubt that by the time the Republicans regain control in Washington, Beck and his many followers will be right back where all the conservatives were during the George W. Bush years? Only it will be much worse, because they’ll have much bigger, more powerful government at their disposal, which they will not reduce one bit. And one shudders to think of what the apparent growing extreme, irrational hatred of Muslims may lead to.

Unless, that is, Ron Paul and other true libertarians can steer the Tea Party movement onto the right track before it’s too late.

As a good first step, it’s time for everyone — including some people who should know better — to stop suggesting that Glenn Beck is any sort of libertarian.

Brett85
08-24-2010, 02:04 PM
Right, because true libertarians can't hold rallies praising the US military. LMAO

Deborah K
08-24-2010, 02:05 PM
Can there be any doubt that by the time the Republicans regain control in Washington, Beck and his many followers will be right back where all the conservatives were during the George W. Bush years? Only it will be much worse, because they’ll have much bigger, more powerful government at their disposal, which they will not reduce one bit.
AF, assuming we get any interest in the sit-in, I'm beginning to think, based on this article, that doing it AFTER the repubs take the house would make more sense.

Deborah K
08-24-2010, 02:06 PM
As a good first step, it’s time for everyone — including some people who should know better — to stop suggesting that Glenn Beck is any sort of libertarian.

I don't care about GB's label. Why harp about that? To most here, I am a statist. BFD!

djdellisanti4
08-24-2010, 02:12 PM
I'm about to give up on trying to steer the tea party back to its libertarian roots. They are so thick headed.

FrankRep
08-24-2010, 02:12 PM
Is anyone Libertarian enough to be a Libertarian?


The 24 Types of Libertarian
http://www.lewrockwell.com/blog/lewrw/archives/60682.html

A Son of Liberty
08-24-2010, 02:13 PM
Right, because true libertarians can't hold rallies praising the US military. LMAO

What are we supposed to praise them for?

I ask this question as one of the most dear persons in the world to me serves in the US military. I respect his sense of service; I sought DESPERATELY to dissuade him from joining... I came to grasp too late the full consequences of it all.

I think many (not all) of the men and women who serve in the US military do so of a deep sense of service, but I think that sense of service is unfortunately often misguided.

Deborah K
08-24-2010, 02:16 PM
What are we supposed to praise them for?

I ask this question as one of the most dear persons in the world to me serves in the US military. I respect his sense of service; I sought DESPERATELY to dissuade him from joining... I came to grasp too late the full consequences of it all.

I think many (not all) of the men and women who serve in the US military do so of a deep sense of service, but I think that sense of service is unfortunately often misguided.

Then to your way of thinking, Glenn Beck is also misguided in his attempt to honor them and so is everyone attending. No harm done - case closed.

Deborah K
08-24-2010, 02:17 PM
I'm about to give up on trying to steer the tea party back to its libertarian roots. They are so thick headed.

How are you going about it?

ItsTime
08-24-2010, 02:18 PM
Gleen Beck is a tool of the military industrial complex. He has twisted logic where Israelis have the right to life but Iranians do not.

charrob
08-24-2010, 02:20 PM
it's not just Beck this Saturday, it's Sarah Palin as well-- she's speaking there.

My cousins are all taking buses up there, state they believe there will be between 1/2 million to 1 million people in front of the Lincoln Memorial this Saturday.

It is the same day (8/28) Martin Luther King Jr. made his famous "I have a Dream Speech" in front of the Lincoln Memorial. Civil rights leaders and the Black Panthers plan on being there to greet Sarah Palin, Glenn Beck, and the teapartiers that join them.

This may be incorrect, but i've read that it has been illegal to hold large crowds in front of the Lincoln Memorial for years-- that the closest place to the Memorial that the U.S. Park Service gives permits is by the reflecting pool across the street. (Beck and Palin plan to give their "speeches" on the steps of the Lincoln Memorial like King did in 1963).

Additionally, the U.S. Park Service has not granted Palin and Beck a permit to even hold this thing: can you imagine? Large groups, from marches to rallies are always required to put in for permits months in advance-- and even then sometimes they get hassled.




Beck went on to defend the U.S. embargo against Iraq that killed hundreds of thousands of innocent people during the 1990s,

-not sure if this is correct, but i've read in the past it was more like one million iraqi's died as a result of sanctions during the 1990's.

A Son of Liberty
08-24-2010, 02:23 PM
Then to your way of thinking, Glenn Beck is also misguided in his attempt to honor them and so is everyone attending. No harm done - case closed.

Yes, because it's not as simple as honoring "them". Honoring "them" also carries explicitly honoring the mission, which is not set by them, but only carried out by them. If Goofy Glenn would expressly say that he is honoring "them", but not the mission, which is set by the ghouls and goblins in Washington and Seattle, I might agree there's no harm... but it's a fairly placed bet that Glenn will be hosting a military AND military-industrial complex-slash-foreign policy love-fest. Therein lies the rub, for me.

I love my brother, and why he serves... but if ever anything should happen to him, g-d help the bastards who pulled the strings...

Edit to add: Beck's Lincoln worship makes me dry-heave. I used to be a Lincoln fan, but even then I would have had a hard time listening to the "sacred ground" nonsense. The guy worships the state - those comments alone prove it.

Deborah K
08-24-2010, 02:24 PM
it's not just Beck this Saturday, it's Sarah Palin as well-- she's speaking there.

My cousins are all taking buses up there, state they believe there will be between 1/2 million to 1 million people in front of the Lincoln Memorial this Saturday.

It is the same day (8/28) Martin Luther King Jr. made his famous "I have a Dream Speech" in front of the Lincoln Memorial. Civil rights leaders and the Black Panthers plan on being there to greet Sarah Palin, Glenn Beck, and the teapartiers that join them.

This may be incorrect, but i've read that it has been illegal to hold large crowds in front of the Lincoln Memorial for years-- that the closest place to the Memorial that the U.S. Park Service gives permits is by the reflecting pool across the street. (Beck and Palin plan to give their "speeches" on the steps of the Lincoln Memorial like King did in 1963).

Additionally, the U.S. Park Service has not granted Palin and Beck a permit to even hold this thing: can you imagine? Large groups, from marches to rallies are always required to put in for permits months in advance-- and even then sometimes they get hassled.





-not sure if this is correct, but i've read in the past it was more like one million iraqi's died as a result of sanctions during the 1990's.

Palin is not speaking. She is introducing. As someone who has helped organize events in D.C., permits are not granted per se.

Deborah K
08-24-2010, 02:26 PM
Yes, because it's not as simple as honoring "them". Honoring "them" also carries explicitly honoring the mission, which is not set by them, but only carried out by them. If Goofy Glenn would expressly say that he is honoring "them", but not the mission, which is set by the ghouls and goblins in Washington and Seattle, I might agree there's no harm... but it's a fairly placed bet that Glenn will be hosting a military AND military-industrial complex-slash-foreign policy love-fest. Therein lies the rub, for me.

I love my brother, and why he serves... but if ever anything should happen to him, g-d help the bastards who pulled the strings...

Honoring the mission would indeed be deal breaker for most, including me.

YumYum
08-24-2010, 02:27 PM
Ron Paul is the only man with a nutsack. He stands up to the whole United States, reproving our Congress, our nation, and the neocons for their hate of Muslims and denying property rights of American citizens, and we have so-called Ron Paul supporters who want to rub shoulders with shit. Well, if you mix shit with ice cream, you have shit, not ice cream.

What the Hell are some of these Ron Paul supporters thinking?? :confused:

Anti Federalist
08-24-2010, 02:29 PM
Right, because true libertarians can't hold rallies praising the US military. LMAO

It comes down to what you think government is, right now.

If it is a representative republic, operating under rule of law and within the framework established by the constitution, then the military is performing valuable service, worthy of commendation.

If, on the other hand, you think that government has gone rogue, operating outside the bounds of any rule of law or constitutional restraints: if it has "crossed the Rubicon" into hot tyranny, evidenced by the fact that, under established law right now, the state can declare you an "unperson' and exterminate you with no judicial review or bill of rights protections, then the military is nothing more than the front line enforcers of this corrupt and tyrannical regime, and no more worthy of respect than a KGB or SS "officer".

A Son of Liberty
08-24-2010, 02:30 PM
Honoring the mission would indeed be deal breaker for most, including me.

:thumbs:

I expect it. He regularly tells us that he would support the war if we fought it to win. That's newspeak nonsense that he'd choke on if he really was a libertarian.

The men and women who serve may do so honorably - that's an individual matter. What is clear to me is that the political decision to make them serve in the capacity that they currently do is objectively dishonorable.

Anti Federalist
08-24-2010, 02:31 PM
Ron Paul is the only man with a nutsack. He stands up to the whole United States, reproving our Congress, our nation, and the neocons for their hate of Muslims and denying property rights of American citizens, and we have so-called Ron Paul supporters who want to rub shoulders with shit. Well, if you mix shit with ice cream, you have shit, not ice cream.

What the Hell are some of these Ron Paul supporters thinking?? :confused:

Because, to some people, telling the truth in the face of overwhelming opposition is not politically "expedient". It hurts your chances to "win".

By God, there is only one Ron Paul.

The man is a tower of honesty and political courage.

Anti Federalist
08-24-2010, 02:35 PM
-not sure if this is correct, but i've read in the past it was more like one million iraqi's died as a result of sanctions during the 1990's.

Depends on the source, I've seen anywhere from 100,000 to 1.5 million.

Regardless, it's a lot. :mad:

silentshout
08-24-2010, 02:36 PM
Ron Paul is the only man with a nutsack. He stands up to the whole United States, reproving our Congress, our nation, and the neocons for their hate of Muslims and denying property rights of American citizens, and we have so-called Ron Paul supporters who want to rub shoulders with shit. Well, if you mix shit with ice cream, you have shit, not ice cream.

What the Hell are some of these Ron Paul supporters thinking?? :confused:

I agree.

Brett85
08-24-2010, 02:36 PM
I don't care about GB's label. Why harp about that? To most here, I am a statist. BFD!

To some people here you're a statist if you don't support abolishing the Defense Department and the CIA.

YumYum
08-24-2010, 02:37 PM
Because, to some people, telling the truth in the face of overwhelming opposition is not politically "expedient". It hurts your chances to "win".

By God, there is only one Ron Paul.

The man is a tower of honesty and political courage.

So, what you are saying is that the rest of us are cowards?

You guys go to the Beck/Palin/neocon crowd rally in D.C. and set up your stands, wearing your Ron Paul t-shirts and trying to hand out/sell literature, and you will bring dishonor to Ron Paul and yourselves. You should be protesting the rally, not placating it, and demand an end to the wars and demand that we bring the troops home!!! You guys all on fluoride??

FrankRep
08-24-2010, 02:37 PM
Ron Paul supports Immigration Laws. Is Ron Paul a Statist?

Brett85
08-24-2010, 02:41 PM
So, what you are saying is that the rest of us are cowards?

You guys go to the Beck/Palin/neocon crowd rally in D.C. and set up your stands, wearing your Ron Paul t-shirts and trying to hand out/sell literature, and you will bring dishonor to Ron Paul and yourselves. You should be protesting the rally, not placating it, and demand an end to the fucking wars and demand that we bring the troops home!!! You guys all on fluoride??

I don't think that anybody really listens to you when you have to use obscene language to make your point.

charrob
08-24-2010, 02:41 PM
Palin is not speaking. She is introducing. As someone who has helped organize events in D.C., permits are not granted per se.

thanks... the Washington Post stated:


Beck's "Restoring Honor" rally, with former vice presidential candidate Sarah Palin among the scheduled speakers, will take place on the steps of the Lincoln Memorial, 47 years to the day after Martin Luther King Jr. delivered his famous "I Have a Dream" speech there.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/08/16/AR2010081605042.html


but was not correct?

----------------------------------------------------------------------

-beyond what the Post stated, i don't know the details: you couldn't make me attend this stupid thing if i was threatened with the point of a gun. :mad:

Stary Hickory
08-24-2010, 02:42 PM
Lew Rockwell is a statist!

Really getting tired of the mantra. Glenn Beck is not perfect but he gets a libertarian message out more than Lew Rockwell does. So let's constantly attack one vehicle who gets it's right quite often and just give a pass to all the hardcore statists/socialist and what have you.

Yes Lew Rockwell lets spend our time attacking folks who actually do get a liberty message out there. I mean WTF really? Is attacking Glen Beck 24/7 really a productive use of time? Lew getting on my bad side.

kahless
08-24-2010, 02:44 PM
I used to defend Beck here last year since it looked like he was reforming. That was until he back stabbed all of us with his proposed 2% VAT tax last fall.

Although I never listen to Alex Jones show I remember at that time re-quoting something he wrote about Beck in these forums last December that I hoped was not true.



Glenn Beck is not a libertarian. He is a shill for the Federal Reserve and the bankers. People who believe Glenn Beck is a patriot and follow his contrived political movement need to be aware of this. Glenn Beck is a Pied Piper leading the people in self-defeating circles. Beck’s task is to destroy the tea party movement and lead his hoodwinked followers back into the fold

After Beck coming on in favor of a VAT, destroying Medina's campaign and ignoring liberty candidates in favor of establishment Republicans it is pretty clear the Jones was dead on with that quote.

Very sad since Beck is accurate on many things. It is a shame that it seems to be a tactic to lead followers back into the establishment Republican and Neocon fold.

Brett85
08-24-2010, 02:44 PM
What are we supposed to praise them for?

I ask this question as one of the most dear persons in the world to me serves in the US military. I respect his sense of service; I sought DESPERATELY to dissuade him from joining... I came to grasp too late the full consequences of it all.

I think many (not all) of the men and women who serve in the US military do so of a deep sense of service, but I think that sense of service is unfortunately often misguided.

We should praise them for having the guts to put their lives on the line to protect this country. I disagree with the way that our military is being used for nation building now, but certainly it was right to go into Afghanistan to begin with. If you're going to call me a "neocon" for that, then you should call Ron Paul a "neocon" as well for voting to invade Afghanistan.

crazyfacedjenkins
08-24-2010, 02:44 PM
YouTube - Glenn Beck - Ron Paul - Terrorism? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eg8M2JBIoqo)

Can't count the amount of times this was posted, but it seems to be not often enough.

heavenlyboy34
08-24-2010, 02:47 PM
Is anyone Libertarian enough to be a Libertarian?


The 24 Types of Libertarian
http://www.lewrockwell.com/blog/lewrw/archives/60682.html

I am, and RP is. ;):D

YumYum
08-24-2010, 02:48 PM
I don't think that anybody really listens to you when you have to use obscene language to make your point.

What part did you find obscene? That I don't like mixing Ron Paul's message with warmongers? Or do you mean the "F" word? Ok, I understand. I can edit that.

FrankRep
08-24-2010, 02:49 PM
I am, and RP is. ;):D

Ron Paul supports Immigration Laws. Libertarians call that Statist.

Brett85
08-24-2010, 02:49 PM
What part did you find obscene? That I don't like mixing Ron Paul's message with warmongers? Or do you mean the "F" word? Ok, I understand. I can edit that.

That's what I meant. Thanks.

Anti Federalist
08-24-2010, 02:53 PM
So, what you are saying is that the rest of us are cowards?

You guys go to the Beck/Palin/neocon crowd rally in D.C. and set up your stands, wearing your Ron Paul t-shirts and trying to hand out/sell literature, and you will bring dishonor to Ron Paul and yourselves. You should be protesting the rally, not placating it, and demand an end to the wars and demand that we bring the troops home!!! You guys all on fluoride??

Ummm...wut?

kahless
08-24-2010, 02:59 PM
You guys go to the Beck/Palin/neocon crowd rally in D.C. and set up your stands, wearing your Ron Paul t-shirts and trying to hand out/sell literature, and you will bring dishonor to Ron Paul and yourselves.

That is exactly what we should be doing to educate and bring these folks into the fold.

A Son of Liberty
08-24-2010, 03:02 PM
We should praise them for having the guts to put their lives on the line to protect this country. I disagree with the way that our military is being used for nation building now, but certainly it was right to go into Afghanistan to begin with. If you're going to call me a "neocon" for that, then you should call Ron Paul a "neocon" as well for voting to invade Afghanistan.

Shall I step aside and let you debate the strawman you erected in my place?

paulitics
08-24-2010, 03:03 PM
To some people here you're a statist if you don't support abolishing the Defense Department and the CIA.

To some you are a statist if you don't support abolishing the entire government.

I am no anarchist.

But, if you aren't for abolishing needless wars of agression, like Glenn Beck, then you are not an ally...but a statist. Since Glen claims he is a libertarian, he is a deceiver.

Brett85
08-24-2010, 03:11 PM
To some you are a statist if you don't support abolishing the entire government.

I am no anarchist.

But, if you aren't for abolishing needless wars of agression, like Glenn Beck, then you are not an ally...but a statist. Since Glen claims he is a libertarian, he is a deceiver.

So I guess you would probably call Deroy Murdock a "statist." That guy is way more of a neocon than Glenn Beck ever dreamed of being, and he calls himself a libertarian. When I watched that even I couldn't believe that he actually called himself a libertarian. It just goes to show that there's a lot of different kinds of libertarians.

YouTube - John Stossel - What is a Libertarian? Part 3 of 5 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zg8EJPARh8k&feature=related)

heavenlyboy34
08-24-2010, 03:13 PM
Ron Paul supports Immigration Laws. Libertarians call that Statist.

Fair point. This is one of many issues I disagree with RP on. I wouldn't call Ron a "statist" quite yet just because of that-"misguided" seems more appropriate.

YumYum
08-24-2010, 03:13 PM
Ummm...wut?

I have a question. Maybe I'm jumping to conclusions because you guys know something that I don't.

Would Ron Paul be at this rally?

If he would be there and even speak, then I have spoken out of line.

But if he wouldn't be seen there, then I think that you guys need to be realistic and realize that this movement is small when you compare it to the number of followers that Beck and Palin have. In other words, in a crowd of 1.5 million, you won't be noticed, but you go there and protest, you'll be on the news.

I have talked to both fans of Beck and Palin, and they do not like Ron Paul. That should say something.

heavenlyboy34
08-24-2010, 03:14 PM
So I guess you would probably call Deroy Murdock a "statist." That guy is way more of a neocon than Glenn Beck ever dreamed of being, and he calls himself a libertarian. When I watched that even I couldn't believe that he actually called himself a libertarian. It just goes to show that there's a lot of different kinds of libertarians.

YouTube - John Stossel - What is a Libertarian? Part 3 of 5 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zg8EJPARh8k&feature=related)

It also shows that people hijack the L-word to lend themselves credibility they otherwise wouldn't have. (remember when Hannity called himself "libertarian"? /vommit)

Brett85
08-24-2010, 03:15 PM
I have a question. Maybe I'm jumping to conclusions because you guys know something that I don't.

Would Ron Paul be at this rally?

If he would be there and even speak, then I have spoken out of line.

But if he wouldn't be seen there, then I think that you guys need to be realistic and realize that this movement is small when you compare it to the number of followers that Beck and Palin have. In other words, in a crowd of 1.5 million, you won't be noticed, but you go there and protest, you'll be on the news.

I have talked to both fans of Beck and Palin, and they do not like Ron Paul. That should say something.

I'm a fan of both Glenn Beck and Ron Paul. Ron Paul regularly appears on his radio show, and they've had some pretty good, civil discussions.

A Son of Liberty
08-24-2010, 03:15 PM
So I guess you would probably call Deroy Murdock a "statist." That guy is way more of a neocon than Glenn Beck ever dreamed of being, and he calls himself a libertarian. When I watched that even I couldn't believe that he actually called himself a libertarian. It just goes to show that there's a lot of different kinds of libertarians.

YouTube - John Stossel - What is a Libertarian? Part 3 of 5 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zg8EJPARh8k&feature=related)

I once heard Bill Maher refer to himself as a libertarian... Bill Maher of, "just ram it down their stupid throats" fame.

There is what is said to be, and there is what actually is...

heavenlyboy34
08-24-2010, 03:17 PM
There is what is said to be, and there is what actually is...

I heard him say that too. I lol'ed! ;)

RedStripe
08-24-2010, 03:19 PM
Right, because true libertarians can't hold rallies praising the US military. LMAO

This, but unironically.

A Son of Liberty
08-24-2010, 03:19 PM
I heard him say that too. I lol'ed! ;)

:) I laughed, then barfed, then threw something at my TV. ;)

Brett85
08-24-2010, 03:20 PM
It also shows that people hijack the L-word to lend themselves credibility they otherwise wouldn't have. (remember when Hannity called himself "libertarian"? /vommit)

Yeah, and then there was Bush who hijacked the word "conservative," and then proceeded to expand government at a faster rate then any President in American history.

A Son of Liberty
08-24-2010, 03:23 PM
Yeah, and then there was Bush who hijacked the word "conservative," and then proceeded to expand government at a faster rate then any President in American history.

Agreed. I don't think there's a word in American political-speak that hasn't been utterly corrupted.

speciallyblend
08-24-2010, 03:33 PM
spam, register republican and become a delegate and get involved now not 2012.

A Son of Liberty
08-24-2010, 03:37 PM
Maybe I’m just too cynical, but I began questioning Glenn Beck’s “Restoring Honor” mob, to be held in D.C. this weekend, when he announced that it would be held at the Lincoln Memorial. Then I thought, “Why didn’t Glenn or anyone else at the Fox News Channel complain about “dishonor” when the Bush administration lied America into war in Iraq, murdered thousands of civilians (“collateral damage”), operated torture chambers, and did all it could to eviscerate civil liberties? Was the Bush administration overflowing with honor?

On Glenn’s Web site he lists only four speakers for the event: Himself, neocon heartthrob Sarah Palin, Alveda King of the Koch Foundation-funded Alexis de Tocqueville Institute (and M.L. King, Jr.’s niece), and former Navy SEAL Marcus Lutrell. According to her Wikipedia entry, Ms. King became quite notorious after she publicly stated that gay marriage was equivalent to genocide. I wonder if Sarah Palin is aware of this?

The event is a fundraiser for the Special Operations Warrior Foundation. It sounds to me like restoring neocons to power is the real purpose of Glenn’s rally. That of course would not translate into a freer society but more war (with Iran, certainly), bigger government, more debt, more taxes — you know, the Bush administration all over again.


http://www.lewrockwell.com/blog/lewrw/archives/64283.html

HOLLYWOOD
08-24-2010, 05:21 PM
Thanks for posting... I don't know how many times we have to explain... FOX NEWS, FOX CORP, NEWS CORP. Is a paid INFOMERCIAL and YOU are the PRODUCT.

Beck receives his paychecks from Roger Ailes and Rupert Murdoch... the guy is a PitchMan. Plain and Simple... Yesterday's Pitch was: Israeli Day, buy the Israel defender game. Blah Blah Blah...

Beck is a Bullshitting Compensated Pitchman. Him like; Hannity, O'really, Chris Wallace, & 100's of other's across the airwaves are there to convince you what to believe... Believe this, Believe that...

Stop believing the Crap they all dish out... 99.99% is frigin propaganda


YouTube - Glenn Beck - Ron Paul - Terrorism? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eg8M2JBIoqo)

Can't count the amount of times this was posted, but it seems to be not often enough.