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View Full Version : Is it time for a sit-in at all Congressional and Senatorial offices?




Deborah K
08-23-2010, 06:13 PM
This thread inspired the idea: http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?p=2855538#post2855538

If this information can be verified, and this is truly what we have to look forward to, then I'd say it's high time we organize a nation-wide sit-in at every freakin congressional and senatorial office in the country as well as in DC all on the same day!

Anti-Federalist and I just had a quick convo in the above thread and he believes doing it a couple weeks before the election would be best.

If there is an interest in this idea, then we need a website with a pledge counter, and some promotional tubes to kick it off. Any other ideas?

Deborah K
08-23-2010, 08:34 PM
Anyone interested in something like this?

jdmyprez_deo_vindice
08-23-2010, 08:36 PM
count me in

MN Patriot
08-23-2010, 08:44 PM
The tax increases will take effect no matter what. If Republicans take back Congress, and then the tax raises take effect, the leftist charlatans will blame Republicans for the largest tax raise in history, or whatever their spin will be.

I say sleep on it, and hopefully the feeling will go away(that is my solution to most everything :D ). Then wait and see how the public reacts to their taxes increasing.

Of course, my ultimate solution is for liberty candidates to advocate outlawing tax withholding (see below). Wake people up to how much is robbed from them.

Deborah K
08-23-2010, 08:47 PM
http://i27.tinypic.com/4j6nu8.jpg

jdmyprez_deo_vindice
08-23-2010, 08:56 PM
The tax increases will take effect no matter what. If Republicans take back Congress, and then the tax raises take effect, the leftist charlatans will blame Republicans for the largest tax raise in history, or whatever their spin will be.

I say sleep on it, and hopefully the feeling will go away(that is my solution to most everything :D ). Then wait and see how the public reacts to their taxes increasing.

Of course, my ultimate solution is for liberty candidates to advocate outlawing tax withholding (see below). Wake people up to how much is robbed from them.

I know what you are getting at but I would disagree for the simple reason that we are in the mess we are in now because good people decided to sit back and let the tyrants have their way in the hopes that the masses would wake up and fight back. I hate to say it, but that is not going to happen. We have seen time and time again that the masses can realize they are being screwed up the hershey highway but instead of fighting back they just resume their position and say "Thank you master".

It is up to us to do something and up to us to lead others who will not take the step to be leaders themselves.

amy31416
08-23-2010, 10:58 PM
I'm game--but I think we could do something bigger that they can't ignore.

Kotin
08-23-2010, 11:00 PM
I'm game--but I think we could do something bigger that they can't ignore.

as I am sure you are thinking of something incredibly violent or incredibly demoralizing, I will patiently await your response.

amy31416
08-23-2010, 11:09 PM
as I am sure you are thinking of something incredibly violent or incredibly demoralizing, I will patiently await your response.

I was thinking about some frigging cupcakes, for Chrissakes.

Chocolate, with a creamy filling....mmmmmm

ETA: I actually was thinking of cupcakes, but not for those bastards. I think we need to do something that throws a monkey wrench into things...I don't know what that is yet, but we should get the gears turning.

Anti Federalist
08-23-2010, 11:21 PM
I was thinking about some frigging cupcakes, for Chrissakes.

Chocolate, with a creamy filling....mmmmmm

ETA: I actually was thinking of cupcakes, but not for those bastards. I think we need to do something that throws a monkey wrench into things...I don't know what that is yet, but we should get the gears turning.

101 Things to Do 'Til the Revolution: Ideas and Resources for Self-Liberation, Monkey Wrenching and Preparedness

http://www.amazon.com/101-Things-Til-Revolution-Self-Liberation/dp/189362613X

amy31416
08-23-2010, 11:27 PM
101 Things to Do 'Til the Revolution: Ideas and Resources for Self-Liberation, Monkey Wrenching and Preparedness

http://www.amazon.com/101-Things-Til-Revolution-Self-Liberation/dp/189362613X

Claire Wolfe is fantastic...strangely, I hadn't heard of her book, so thanks. :)

Anti Federalist
08-23-2010, 11:34 PM
Claire Wolfe is fantastic...strangely, I hadn't heard of her book, so thanks. :)

No kidding?

She wrote updates to that:

Don't Shoot the Bastards (Yet): 101 More Ways to Salvage Freedom

http://www.amazon.com/Dont-Shoot-Bastards-Yet-Salvage/dp/1559501898/ref=pd_sim_b_3

The Freedom Outlaw's Handbook: 179 Things to Do 'Til the Revolution

http://www.amazon.com/Freedom-Outlaws-Handbook-Things-Revolution/dp/1581605781/ref=pd_cp_b_0

amy31416
08-23-2010, 11:47 PM
No kidding?

She wrote updates to that:

Don't Shoot the Bastards (Yet): 101 More Ways to Salvage Freedom

http://www.amazon.com/Dont-Shoot-Bastards-Yet-Salvage/dp/1559501898/ref=pd_sim_b_3

The Freedom Outlaw's Handbook: 179 Things to Do 'Til the Revolution

http://www.amazon.com/Freedom-Outlaws-Handbook-Things-Revolution/dp/1581605781/ref=pd_cp_b_0

Yeah, and I even read http://www.backwoodshome.com/ pretty regularly.

MN Patriot
08-24-2010, 04:35 AM
I know what you are getting at but I would disagree for the simple reason that we are in the mess we are in now because good people decided to sit back and let the tyrants have their way in the hopes that the masses would wake up and fight back. I hate to say it, but that is not going to happen. We have seen time and time again that the masses can realize they are being screwed up the hershey highway but instead of fighting back they just resume their position and say "Thank you master".

It is up to us to do something and up to us to lead others who will not take the step to be leaders themselves.

Yes, we need to fight back. I strongly believe this movement needs to go third party, but the masses have been led to believe third parties are a waste of time / a disruption / a bunch of kooks. So we get led along by the noses in the Republican Party.

A sit in will look silly, like we are a bunch of liberal protesters. Republicans will laugh at us, the media will twist it to make us look like morons and not explain what is happening.

Let the tax increases take effect, then do something. Protests aren't effective until there is something to protest about. Next spring watch the anti-tax rally numbers grow, and get people to thinking about creating a new INDEPENDENT third party.

This movement needs to look beyond the immediate, and plan stuff like this with an end goal in mind. Why have a protest, beyond the impending tax hikes? Instead of protesting the tax hikes themselves, we also need to get people to JOIN the movement, to FORM a third party.

Just having protests willy-nilly won't get us where we want to go.

Deborah K
08-24-2010, 07:45 AM
Yes, we need to fight back. I strongly believe this movement needs to go third party, but the masses have been led to believe third parties are a waste of time / a disruption / a bunch of kooks. So we get led along by the noses in the Republican Party.

A sit in will look silly, like we are a bunch of liberal protesters. Republicans will laugh at us, the media will twist it to make us look like morons and not explain what is happening.

Let the tax increases take effect, then do something. Protests aren't effective until there is something to protest about. Next spring watch the anti-tax rally numbers grow, and get people to thinking about creating a new INDEPENDENT third party.

This movement needs to look beyond the immediate, and plan stuff like this with an end goal in mind. Why have a protest, beyond the impending tax hikes? Instead of protesting the tax hikes themselves, we also need to get people to JOIN the movement, to FORM a third party.

Just having protests willy-nilly won't get us where we want to go.

I am adamantly against another party. It's already been tried a half a dozen times i.e. the Libertarian Party, the Constitution Party, etc., etc.. I am against a party system to begin with. Since we have them established already, I think the thing to do is co-opt and/or infiltrate the existing two major parties. It makes no sense to me to try, at this late date, to establish yet another party.

If we could get massive OPEN CARRY sit-ins organized for each and every Congressman's and Senator's offices nation-wide, we would make one helluva statement. The message doesn't have to be just about taxes, but I'm guessing the Tea Parties would definitely be interested in that aspect of it.

Imagine people showing up the night before in sleeping bags, and campers etc. and sitting on mats and lawn chairs by the hundreds. This would be a clear case of civil disobedience since the overflow will end up on sidewalks and possibly blocking traffic. The disruption will get their attention, and make them realize that we are peaceful NOW, but don't push us! And our signs should read:

That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government ~~Declaration of Independence

The very same day, those who live around D.C. should organize and "visit" the halls of Congress en masse! Like a swarm of bees.

Deborah K
08-24-2010, 08:58 AM
Bumpity - need input.

Deborah K
08-25-2010, 10:25 AM
People, we really do need to rise up. And we need to do it peacefully but effectively. I think an open-carry sit-in at every congressional and senatorial office in the nation is in their face without the use of violence.

Let it not be said that we did nothing!

Deborah K
08-25-2010, 07:12 PM
okay, well, if you're NOT interested, at least give me your reasons why.

MN Patriot
08-25-2010, 08:10 PM
okay, well, if you're NOT interested, at least give me your reasons why.

I would rather sit around and debate with people what we should do.

QueenB4Liberty
08-25-2010, 08:21 PM
The Freedom Outlaw's Handbook: 179 Things to Do 'Til the Revolution

http://www.amazon.com/Freedom-Outlaws-Handbook-Things-Revolution/dp/1581605781/ref=pd_cp_b_0


I love this one! I also love this one: http://www.amazon.com/Am-Not-Number-Freeing-America/dp/1559502320/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1282789217&sr=8-1

I am not a number


I think the sit-in idea is a good one, if we could convince enough people to do it.

MN Patriot
08-25-2010, 09:01 PM
I am adamantly against another party. It's already been tried a half a dozen times i.e. the Libertarian Party, the Constitution Party, etc., etc.. I am against a party system to begin with. Since we have them established already, I think the thing to do is co-opt and/or infiltrate the existing two major parties. It makes no sense to me to try, at this late date, to establish yet another party.

If we could get massive OPEN CARRY sit-ins organized for each and every Congressman's and Senator's offices nation-wide, we would make one helluva statement. The message doesn't have to be just about taxes, but I'm guessing the Tea Parties would definitely be interested in that aspect of it.

Imagine people showing up the night before in sleeping bags, and campers etc. and sitting on mats and lawn chairs by the hundreds. This would be a clear case of civil disobedience since the overflow will end up on sidewalks and possibly blocking traffic. The disruption will get their attention, and make them realize that we are peaceful NOW, but don't push us! And our signs should read:

That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government ~~Declaration of Independence

The very same day, those who live around D.C. should organize and "visit" the halls of Congress en masse! Like a swarm of bees.

You know what they say about trying, try, try again. Learn from past mistakes. I really don't care if we take over the Republican Party, or create a third party. Whatever it takes to end the income tax, reduce the size and power of government, re-establish freedom, etc. But having a legitimate third party to make the Republican Party irrelevant might actually motivate Republicans to reform. Either Republicans reform or the third party puts them out of business and becomes the party of freedom to oppose the fascists.

The CIA regularly discusses hypothetical scenarios and alternate viewpoints (http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/us_usa_cia_wikileaks), but such things are discouraged in the Tea Party movement, since we MUST take over the Republican Party.

Either way, the liberty movement needs a critical mass to develop. Will such a protest help bring that about? And how will the media treat it? Looks like few people even in this forum of rebels are interested in a sit in like this. The tax rallies have worked well the last few years. Maybe just enhance those, once the tax hikes take effect and people wake up.

libertybrewcity
08-25-2010, 09:09 PM
I would rather not get arrested and have something on my record that could possibly affect future employment. I think time would be better spent sitting in on local Republican party meetings, networking, and running for office, party positions, or delegate.

Working Poor
08-26-2010, 06:49 AM
I would rather not get arrested and have something on my record that could possibly affect future employment. I think time would be better spent sitting in on local Republican party meetings, networking, and running for office, party positions, or delegate.

^^^This is probably the only real shot we have:cool:

We have a right to protest though. Instead of carrying guns maybe carry signs with a picture of a gun. Anything we do as far as protesting though there will be plenty of spin by the media.

Deborah K
08-26-2010, 07:43 AM
Do we really have that many sunshine patriots in this movement? I guess some people haven't yet reached their breaking point. I pretty much have.

Working Poor
08-26-2010, 07:48 AM
Do we really have that many sunshine patriots in this movement? I guess some people haven't yet reached their breaking point. I pretty much have.

I guess most people respect their lives enough to not want to go on a suicide mission Deb.:cool:

Deborah K
08-26-2010, 08:04 AM
I guess most people respect their lives enough to not want to go on a suicide mission Deb.:cool:

It's only a suicide mission if you open fire. And if people don't want to open carry, they don't have to, or we as a group could decide not to open-carry. Or are you saying a peaceful sit-in is a suicide mission? Is it the open-carry that is freaking people out?

Working Poor
08-26-2010, 08:27 AM
Is it the open-carry that is freaking people out?

I would say yes it is. Do you really think nobody would get shot if a bunch of people carrying guns went to Washington to protest the government?

Deborah K
08-26-2010, 08:32 AM
I would say yes it is. Do you really think nobody would get shot if a bunch of people carrying guns went to Washington to protest the government?

I don't think you can open carry in D.C.. I'm not suggesting people break any gun laws. Here in Cali you can open carry and you can in other states as well. The sit-in would involve every office nationwide. For example, my Senators each have 2 or 3 offices statewide and each congressman has a couple as well. This way people don't have to travel far to demonstrate, and if each office had a few hundred people sitting on its doorstep, all on the same day, it could conceivably send a pretty strong message.

Yes there would be civil disobedience by way of potential spill over on the sidewalks and in the streets, but have we really become afraid to commit civil disobedience to that degree? Really?

Working Poor
08-26-2010, 08:59 AM
I don't think you can open carry in D.C.. I'm not suggesting people break any gun laws. Here in Cali you can open carry and you can in other states as well. The sit-in would involve every office nationwide. For example, my Senators each have 2 or 3 offices statewide and each congressman has a couple as well. This way people don't have to travel far to demonstrate, and if each office had a few hundred people sitting on its doorstep, all on the same day, it could conceivably send a pretty strong message.

Yes there would be civil disobedience by way of potential spill over on the sidewalks and in the streets, but have we really become afraid to commit civil disobedience to that degree? Really?

I think the gov is getting pretty tough these days. I know we need to do something that makes a very clear message. I just don't really know what it is. I know we have a right to petition the government and to oppose it as well. But, the government has got some pretty fierce protection of itself going on. It is enough to make most folks want to stay home. I say remember Kent State if you need an example. :(

YumYum
08-26-2010, 09:55 AM
i would rather sit around and debate with people what we should do.

rotflmao!!!

Acala
08-26-2010, 10:13 AM
Done right, it could be awesome. But it would be hard to do it right. I would suggest doing it after the new crop of rats are sworn in - to give them a little message to take to the Capitol with them.

To do it right you would need:

1. Enough participants to be scary to the politicians. There is safety and credibility in numbers.

2. A simple, clear, and unanimous message. Give the media no choice for spinning the message. The typical hodgepodge of signs and slogans gives the media all it needs to totally defuse the protest. A couple loudmouths with "birther" signs and your protest is rendered irrelevant or worse.

3. Calm, peaceful, articulate. Nobody gets hurt, nobody makes an ass of themselves on TV, nobody scares the neighbors. You want politicians to be scared, not the public.

I think items 2 and 3 are VERY difficult to attain if you also attain item 1. I don't know how you could keep out the plants and false flag provocateurs, let alone the honest but myopic and LOUD opponents of runaway government.

If you want it to be open carry, which has advantages and disadvantages, I suggest making the single message "End the Wars". Armed citizens demanding peace. Let the media chew on THAT for awhile.

Deborah K
08-26-2010, 12:03 PM
Done right, it could be awesome. But it would be hard to do it right. I would suggest doing it after the new crop of rats are sworn in - to give them a little message to take to the Capitol with them.

To do it right you would need:

1. Enough participants to be scary to the politicians. There is safety and credibility in numbers.

2. A simple, clear, and unanimous message. Give the media no choice for spinning the message. The typical hodgepodge of signs and slogans gives the media all it needs to totally defuse the protest. A couple loudmouths with "birther" signs and your protest is rendered irrelevant or worse.

3. Calm, peaceful, articulate. Nobody gets hurt, nobody makes an ass of themselves on TV, nobody scares the neighbors. You want politicians to be scared, not the public.

I think items 2 and 3 are VERY difficult to attain if you also attain item 1. I don't know how you could keep out the plants and false flag provocateurs, let alone the honest but myopic and LOUD opponents of runaway government.

If you want it to be open carry, which has advantages and disadvantages, I suggest making the single message "End the Wars". Armed citizens demanding peace. Let the media chew on THAT for awhile.

We could vote on the open carry if we had a website. We could solicit ideas too, as to signs, etc. I'm not worried about violence, there wasn't any at the RevMarch, or the 9/12 march or the Tea Party protests and the only violence at the town hall meetings was initiated by the left.

I agree that the message should be a unified one. One we would use to promote the sit-in. We could do tubes for that. The tax issue is a biggie for me. This gov't would cease to exist if they didn't have the ability to take our money from us. They need to get the message that Americans are ready for a tax revolt.

Acala
08-26-2010, 12:10 PM
We could vote on the open carry if we had a website. We could solicit ideas too, as to signs, etc. I'm not worried about violence, there wasn't any at the RevMarch, or the 9/12 march or the Tea Party protests and the only violence at the town hall meetings was initiated by the left.

I agree that the message should be a unified one. One we would use to promote the sit-in. We could do tubes for that. The tax issue is a biggie for me. This gov't would cease to exist if they didn't have the ability to take our money from us. They need to get the message that Americans are ready for a tax revolt.

Taxes works fine for me also. But it is easy to say "cut taxes". Even Meat Head McCain says "cut taxes". It is the follow-up question that separates the neo-cons from the patriots: "where will you cut spending?" So I think you would need to address that as well. Which comes back around to ending the wars, as well as eliminating most Federal departments.

Deborah K
08-26-2010, 12:18 PM
Taxes works fine for me also. But it is easy to say "cut taxes". Even Meat Head McCain says "cut taxes". It is the follow-up question that separates the neo-cons from the patriots: "where will you cut spending?" So I think you would need to address that as well. Which comes back around to ending the wars, as well as eliminating most Federal departments.

Oh, well I'm coming from the perspective of ending the IRS and taxation on wages. You do that and the wars will end along with all the other non-essentials.
Check out the thread I posted in the OP which gave birth to this idea. If for no other reason, we protest that!

I know the IRS and this gov't are too entrenched for anything to change any time soon. But I think it's high time we start to plant the seeds in society and spread the truth about the sinister origins of the so-called income tax and how unconstitutional they are.

Working Poor
08-26-2010, 12:51 PM
I know the IRS and this gov't are too entrenched for anything to change any time soon. But I think it's high time we start to plant the seeds in society and spread the truth about the sinister origins of the so-called income tax and how unconstitutional they are.
Most of the people I have talked to say the gov could not survive without the IRS so they are opposed to ending it.

Deborah K
08-26-2010, 12:59 PM
Most of the people I have talked to say the gov could not survive without the IRS so they are opposed to ending it.

Which explains why they need an education on the matter. This was one of the things that first piqued my interest in Ron Paul. When I read that he wanted to abolish the IRS, I said to myself "What???? Is he nuts???" But since I loved his stance on the Constitution so much, I decided to find out why he thought that way.

Acala
08-26-2010, 01:24 PM
When I read that he wanted to abolish the IRS, I said to myself "What???? Is he nuts???" But since I loved his stance on the Constitution so much, I decided to find out why he thought that way.

This the problem with having an "abolish the IRS" sit-in. You will be written off by 99.99% of the population as nuts. And you won't have an opportunity to explain.

So let me step back a couple and ask you this: what do you hope to accomplish, specifically?

Deborah K
08-26-2010, 01:37 PM
This the problem with having an "abolish the IRS" sit-in. You will be written off by 99.99% of the population as nuts. And you won't have an opportunity to explain.

So let me step back a couple and ask you this: what do you hope to accomplish, specifically?

First let me just say that I am realistic enough to know that what I want, I won't get for awhile. The reason I came up with the idea was because of the new tax hikes coming down the pike in the near future, so my initial response was to protest them with a sit-in. But I am perfectly willing to go with the flow on this. My issue is taxation as I see it as the root to all our other problems. But I understand that not everyone is there yet. So, if we want to gain any ground with the idea of a sit-in, we'll have to get a concensus on what to protest. The Tea Parties are all about taxation and they are close to being ready for a tax revolt.

My local tea party is having a meeting on Saturday about property rights. Last month it was gun rights, and the month before that it was on net neutrality. I know not all the tea parties are as far along as mine but these people are ripe for the picking. And they're established, we are not. Our meet-ups dissolved. All we have left pretty much is this forum and Daily Paul. I'm rambling now but you get the jist.

Acala
08-26-2010, 01:56 PM
First let me just say that I am realistic enough to know that what I want, I won't get for awhile. The reason I came up with the idea was because of the new tax hikes coming down the pike in the near future, so my initial response was to protest them with a sit-in. But I am perfectly willing to go with the flow on this. My issue is taxation as I see it as the root to all our other problems. But I understand that not everyone is there yet. So, if we want to gain any ground with the idea of a sit-in, we'll have to get a concensus on what to protest. The Tea Parties are all about taxation and they are close to being ready for a tax revolt.

My local tea party is having a meeting on Saturday about property rights. Last month it was gun rights, and the month before that it was on net neutrality. I know not all the tea parties are as far along as mine but these people are ripe for the picking. And they're established, we are not. Our meet-ups dissolved. All we have left pretty much is this forum and Daily Paul. I'm rambling now but you get the jist.

I would much prefer a "no new taxes" theme to an "abolish the IRS" theme for a sit in. This is why:

A majority of people will dismiss the idea of abolishing the IRS out of hand - including the politicians you are trying to influence. But that same majority of people are likely to at least consider "no new taxes" to be possible. And that is a message politicians might take seriously.

Don't get me wrong - I am 100% behind abolishing the IRS. But if we are going to start influencing politicians by direct demonstration, we should start with something that can win right off the bat.

I also happen to think that open carry demonstration could be powerful. But they could also backfire.

Working Poor
08-26-2010, 02:05 PM
But they could also backfire.

yes every village has at least one idiot.

Deborah K
08-26-2010, 02:22 PM
I would much prefer a "no new taxes" theme to an "abolish the IRS" theme for a sit in. This is why:

A majority of people will dismiss the idea of abolishing the IRS out of hand - including the politicians you are trying to influence. But that same majority of people are likely to at least consider "no new taxes" to be possible. And that is a message politicians might take seriously.

Don't get me wrong - I am 100% behind abolishing the IRS. But if we are going to start influencing politicians by direct demonstration, we should start with something that can win right off the bat.

I also happen to think that open carry demonstration could be powerful. But they could also backfire.

I agree that abolishing the IRS demonstrations are for future rallies. I guess I didn't do a good enough job relaying that. No new taxes works for me. I can always pass out information on the unconstitutionality of taxation on wages. :D;)

As to open-carry, I've always been opposed to it, mainly because as a minuteman, it would have been a death warrant to wear a gun at a "secure the border" rally. Most of the opposition looked like they were ready to shank us to begin with. But tax protests don't bring much opposition and seem like a much safer environment to bear arms, just to make a solid point to our representatives. But again, it's just a suggestion. I believe at some point, people will have had enough and won't give a sh&t. I guess most still aren't there yet.