LP/TP/CP Parties What is their Problem??

[speciallyblend]

Every LP/TP/CP Member should be a registered GOP member or they are just fooling themselves! Every Member of these parties should be demanding their leadership get with the program! If they fail to act then we will have to wait for the collapse of the GOP and even then the LP/TP/CP will have to merge into a new viable political coalition to survive and be viable!!

the bottom line is if LP/TP/CP members do not reclaim the GOP! Then they are to blame and might as well not vote or be a member of any party!!

some folks need to wtf up!! asap and get involved or they might as well not bitch because they are the problem!!

Liberty Candidates 2010, Ron Paul 2012!!!!!!!!

[heavenlyboy34]

:rolleyes: And you wonder why I call voting a cult? lolz!! This is probably the most disturbing thing I've seen you write, sb. Seriously, back away from the news RIGHT NOW! Don't make me unplug you!

[ChaosControl]

"Reclaim"? How do we reclaim what we never really had? Unless you count 1 president in the last 100 years some kind of ownership of the party.

The GOP started a crappy party, has been a crappy party, and still is a crappy party.

Parties themselves are stupid. Even if I am not a big fan of the top two for hr general election, for the primary it is nice, I can vote for anyone among a series of candidates, I don't have to pay attention to a stupid party. Unfortunately of course in the general election I can't vote since its usually a piece of **** GOP and piece of **** Dem, and no way in hell I'm falling for the "lesser of two evils" b.s.

I'll vote whoever is the best candidate, regardless of party and if there is no good candidate, I'll write myself in.

[LibertyMage]

Every LP/TP/CP Member should be a registered GOP member or they are just fooling themselves! Every Member of these parties should be demanding their leadership get with the program! If they fail to act then we will have to wait for the collapse of the GOP and even then the LP/TP/CP will have to merge into a new viable political coalition to survive and be viable!!

the bottom line is if LP/TP/CP members do not reclaim the GOP! Then they are to blame and might as well not vote or be a member of any party!!

some folks need to wtf up!! asap and get involved or they might as well not bitch because they are the problem!!

Liberty Candidates 2010, Ron Paul 2012!!!!!!!!

Everyone has their own opinion as to what "should be" done and who is "the problem". 90% of those people are wrong and fail to do what wins elections: get bodies in the precincts. If you have problems with those parties, work with them and bring them into the fold. There is nothing that says they can't help out your candidates even if they are not going to register with your party.

[ChaosControl]

I have no problem with individual candidates using a party to their advantage. But I think it a little foolish to only rely on one party. Why not focus on the party that is strong in the area, seems rather stupid to run for the nomination of a party that will only loose a general election.

If I run for local up to the representative level I'm best off using the GOP, sure. But if I want to be senator or governor, in this state, I'm better off running as a dem. In the campaign focus on the areas you have in common with the party that dominates the area.

Sure if it is a heated/toss up type election then use whatever, I don't really see any point in focusing on one party though. Better to have 5 good Ds and 5 good Rs than 5 good Rs and 5 lost elections because you ran in a heavily D district as a R.

[Jack Bauer]

"Reclaim"? How do we reclaim what we never really had? Unless you count 1 president in the last 100 years some kind of ownership of the party.

The GOP started a crappy party, has been a crappy party, and still is a crappy party.

Parties themselves are stupid. Even if I am not a big fan of the top two for hr general election, for the primary it is nice, I can vote for anyone among a series of candidates, I don't have to pay attention to a stupid party. Unfortunately of course in the general election I can't vote since its usually a piece of **** GOP and piece of **** Dem, and no way in hell I'm falling for the "lesser of two evils" b.s.

I'll vote whoever is the best candidate, regardless of party and if there is no good candidate, I'll write myself in.

Agree with most of your post but you don't get the point of the OP.

The OP suggests that perhaps its time that libertarians, constitutionalists, paleo-cons etc infiltrate the GOP from the local levels to the point where perhaps one day a good portion of the high level positions in the party are made up of them thereby reducing the influence of the neocon/teaocon types in the GOP.

It is something very worthy of consideration. You can vote for whoever you like but this is much more than just casting your vote.

[christagious]

Every LP/TP/CP Member should be a registered GOP member or they are just fooling themselves! Every Member of these parties should be demanding their leadership get with the program! If they fail to act then we will have to wait for the collapse of the GOP and even then the LP/TP/CP will have to merge into a new viable political coalition to survive and be viable!!

the bottom line is if LP/TP/CP members do not reclaim the GOP! Then they are to blame and might as well not vote or be a member of any party!!

some folks need to wtf up!! asap and get involved or they might as well not bitch because they are the problem!!

!!

Somebody's been listening to Hannity

[MN Patriot]

There should be a serious discussion about the Tea Party movement becoming a third party. Make the Republican Party irrelevant. It already is, for the most part, since they have totally failed to save our nation from its slide into socialism.

If the LP/TP/CP were to join forces, invite like minded Republicans to join us.

It would be interesting to have a REAL discussion about this, not the usual open and shut opinion that third party = fail.

[RedStripe]

CP =
http://endiscomingblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/Communist-Party.gif

[Jack Bauer]

There should be a serious discussion about the Tea Party movement becoming a third party. Make the Republican Party irrelevant. It already is, for the most part, since they have totally failed to save our nation from its slide into socialism.

If the LP/TP/CP were to join forces, invite like minded Republicans to join us.

It would be interesting to have a REAL discussion about this, not the usual open and shut opinion that third party = fail.

The question is whether such a 3rd party would work or are there too many sheeple who just vote for the (R) after the name.

I am afraid its the latter case and therefore the 3rd party that you propose should be the GOP itself. ;)

[paulitics]

:rolleyes: And you wonder why I call voting a cult? lolz!! This is probably the most disturbing thing I've seen you write, sb. Seriously, back away from the news RIGHT NOW! Don't make me unplug you!

So you don't believe in the political process as a means to restore legitamacy in govt, and ultimately restore liberty.

We get it.

Why do you have to make it known in every thread, and at the same time denigrate other members who share their ideas who want to work within the system? Why is it so important to you that other people do nothing?

Seriosuly man, this type of stuff is getting tiresome when every thread gets hijacked by anarchists who think their philosophy is so superior they have to remind us of this in every thread. It's off topic, and if you haven't noticed there is a subforum for these discussions.

Now about the thread topic.

I happen to agree that the Ron paul strategy of taking over the republican party is the best strategy. And it is within our reach, if we just ignore the naysayers and pessimists, and smarter than thou psudointellectual types that create all of this negativity.

[heavenlyboy34]

the LP and CP should abolish themselves and direct their members to take over the GOP

Yes, there's not enough consolidation of opinion already. We must shut down dissent right away! :rolleyes:

[speciallyblend]

the LP and CP should abolish themselves and direct their members to take over the GOP

exactly. the point i am making is they ran away from the gop instead of reclaiming it. for anyone in the revolution that isn't a registered republican and continues to make up bs reasons. then you should just give up and stop wasting your time!!

if folks in the revolution do not want to join the gop. then you are a bigger problem then the neo-cons!!

[RedStripe]

I happen to agree that the Ron paul strategy of taking over the republican party is the best strategy.

Um, he has repeatedly encouraged people to vote/support third parties.

[speciallyblend]

Yes, there's not enough consolidation of opinion already. We must shut down dissent right away! :rolleyes:

the cp/lp/tp will be useless unless the gop crumbles and if the lp/cp/tp are waiting on that then they might as well stay useless parties! i can tell you if the gop crumbles the lp/tp/cp will still be useless unless they are willing to make a new political coalition since they are incapable of understanding Ron paul!

the point is they all bitch lp/cp/tp but are not willing to do what must be done reclaim the gop! if folks in the revolution are un willing to join the gop. they should just keep watching beck and the mickey mouse show and stop bitching and basically shtfu!!

[RedStripe]

if folks in the revolution do not want to join the gop. then you are a bigger problem then the neo-cons!!

No true revolution reinforces the very power structure which made revolution necessary to begin with.

While I fully support those who want to return a modicum of sanity to the Republican party, even Ron Paul has made it clear that this is a multi-faceted revolution which must reform not only all the political parties but also the electoral, two-party system itself.

[heavenlyboy34]

So you don't believe in the political process as a means to restore legitamacy in govt, and ultimately restore liberty.

We get it.

Why do you have to make it known in every thread, and at the same time denigrate other members who share their ideas who want to work within the system? Why is it so important to you that other people do nothing?

Seriosuly man, this type of stuff is getting tiresome when every thread gets hijacked by anarchists who think their philosophy is so superior they have to remind us of this in every thread. It's off topic, and if you haven't noticed there is a subforum for these discussions.

Now about the thread topic.

I happen to agree that the Ron paul strategy of taking over the republican party is the best strategy. And it is within our reach, if we just ignore the naysayers and pessimists, and smarter than thou psudointellectual types that create all of this negativity.

I never said "do nothing". I said do something productive, which politics just ain't (except for the educational aspect). Also, I'm not an anarchist. Please stop misrepresenting my position. If your political philosophy is so frail and delicate that it can't stand up to simple criticism, why use it?

You'll notice that I normally keep such discussions in the proper forum, but this thread was broad enough that I felt it reasonable to comment.

[ClayTrainor]

Also, I'm not an anarchist.

Reeeeealllllly? When does the state become necessary?

[heavenlyboy34]

the cp/lp/tp will be useless unless the gop crumbles and if the lp/cp/tp are waiting on that then they might as well stay useless parties! i can tell you if the gop crumbles the lp/tp/cp will still be useless unless they are willing to make a new political coalition since they are incapable of understanding Ron paul!

the point is they all bitch lp/cp/tp but are not willing to do what must be done reclaim the gop! if folks in the revolution are un willing to join the gop. they should just keep watching beck and the mickey mouse show and stop bitching and basically shtfu!!

What is all this? Don't you remember that RP endorsed a CP member in 2008? Isn't that enough for your personality cult?

btw, you ought to cut back on drinking so much cough syrup. It makes you all rambly and crazy-sounding. lolz ;):D

[MN Patriot]

The question is whether such a 3rd party would work or are there too many sheeple who just vote for the (R) after the name.

I am afraid its the latter case and therefore the 3rd party that you propose should be the GOP itself. ;)

But there are many people who vote against the big R. The Republican Party has a lot of ignominy for many people.

I challenge the assumption that the two existing parties are all we have, and are all we will EVER have, therefore we need to "take over" one of them. The Establishment is too well entrenched to allow libertarian minded people to take over one of their two parties.

The question is, are there enough competent libertarian minded people to create a third party? Are there enough libertarian minded people to take over the Republican Party? We will see what happens this fall with the handful of liberty candidates.

[speciallyblend]

Somebody's been listening to Hannity

i would never watch hannity unless i had a snowball

[speciallyblend]

from my history where did the lp/cp come from ooo yeah the gop. i think that makes the point! if folks think the lp/cp/tp will dominate over your local dnc/gop more power to you but i highly doubt!

[heavenlyboy34]

Reeeeealllllly? When does the state become necessary?

The State isn't necessary. Government is only legitimate to the extent that individuals voluntarily accept it.

I wrote a bit about this in my blog here:

http://svobodaonline.blogspot.com/2010/07/state-is-not-government-and-vice-versa.html

http://svobodaonline.blogspot.com/2010/07/voluntaryist-on-voting.html

And I'll have more to say on this in the future as well.

[heavenlyboy34]

from my history where did the lp/cp come from ooo yeah the gop. i think that makes the point! if folks think the lp/cp/tp will dominate over your local dnc/gop more power to you but i highly doubt!

And the GOP came from the Whigs. So? Not much of a point you have at all in light of history! ;)

[speciallyblend]

the lp/cp and tp will amount to what they are today and 12 yrs ago! if people do not get what Ron Paul is saying. they they should just stop!

[speciallyblend]

And the GOP came from the Whigs. So? Not much of a point you have at all in light of history! ;)

the point is the lp/cp and tp are one big joke and if they are unwilling to reclaim the gop. they deserve obama and the gop establishment and are basically full of nonsense!

even if the gop died tomorrow the cp/tp/lp would still be nothing more then an unviable 3rd party until they make a new party and new platform and new brandname. that is the bottom line! i heard Ron Paul and got it! if others can't understand what ron paul is saying. then they are part of the problem like the tea-cons and ne0-cons . i don't care how much they love Ron Paul or the platform!

[speciallyblend]

And the GOP came from the Whigs. So? Not much of a point you have at all in light of history! ;)

what do you suggest? pray that 3 useless parties become mainstream, dream on!! i was lp for 12 yrs.

[ClayTrainor]

The State isn't necessary. Government is only legitimate to the extent that individuals voluntarily accept it.

I wrote a bit about this in my blog here:

http://svobodaonline.blogspot.com/2010/07/state-is-not-government-and-vice-versa.html

http://svobodaonline.blogspot.com/2010/07/voluntaryist-on-voting.html

And I'll have more to say on this in the future as well.

Thanks, will read these later. :)

[lynnf]

There should be a serious discussion about the Tea Party movement becoming a third party. Make the Republican Party irrelevant. It already is, for the most part, since they have totally failed to save our nation from its slide into socialism.

If the LP/TP/CP were to join forces, invite like minded Republicans to join us.

It would be interesting to have a REAL discussion about this, not the usual open and shut opinion that third party = fail.

the reason that the third party = fail comes up is because it's TRUE. the two major parties have the system rigged to favor themselves. Ron Paul himself recognizes this. and until something happens to change that, third party = fail and always will.

lynn

[RedStripe]

the libertarian party has more done to promote individual freedom than the republican party :P

who's the failure party, again?

[speciallyblend]

the reason that the third party = fail comes up is because it's TRUE. the two major parties have the system rigged to favor themselves. Ron Paul himself recognizes this. and until something happens to change that, third party = fail and always will.

lynn

lynn is spot on! for folks thinking the lp/cp/tp have a future. your in lalalala land. the lp/tp/cp will not be functional until they 1 reclaim the gop or 2 form a new coalition and new brand name and new party. if they are that against reclaiming a viable party! then the tp/lp/cp will remain unviable until they build upon a new coalition and new platform and new party!!

I think reclaiming the gop will be quicker then waiting for a pipedream(lp/cp/tp)!

[speciallyblend]

the libertarian party has more done to promote individual freedom than the republican party :P

who's the failure party, again?

no i am sorry. you got that half right. the lp activist has done more then the lp/gop, but the bottom line is that lp activist or just plain activist would accomplish more by reclaiming the gop instead of running away and forming the lp! if the lp leaders or lp activist would get with the program. they would do more in the gop then they have in their lifetime in the lp. i was lp for 12 yrs and an activist. more has been accomplished in less then 3 yrs in the gop. then in 12 yrs or since the birth of lp!

if your an activist or lp/cp/tp/indy or dem and haven't registered republican or attended gop meetings and make real change? you might as well go to your nearest brick wall and keep yelling at nothing!!

[low preference guy]

+1 to every speciallyblend post in this thread.

[RedStripe]

no i am sorry. you got that half right. the lp activist has done more then the lp/gop, but the bottom line is that lp activist or just plain activist would accomplish more by reclaiming the gop instead of running away and forming the lp! if the lp leaders or lp activist would get with the program. they would do more in the gop then they have in their lifetime in the lp. i was lp for 12 yrs and an activist. more has been accomplished in less then 3 yrs in the gop. then in 12 yrs or since the birth of lp!

if your an activist or lp/cp/tp/indy or dem and haven't registered republican or attended gop meetings and make real change? you might as well go to your nearest brick wall and keep yelling at nothing!!

What has the Republican Party done to make this country better in the past 10-20 years?

NOTHING. Actually, the Republican Party of the last 10 years has done more damage to this country than any other political party in the history of the country...

and yet here you are trashing the libertarian party? Hah.

[lynnf]

Cathie Adams was the popular, incumbent, establishment-backed chair of the Republican Party of Texas. she was beaten back in June! we can take the Republican Party back -- it just takes work and organization -- not moping around saying "we got our butts beat last time" or "let's try a third party yet again (even though it failed a thousand times before"

look at this letter from the newly elected party chair --


http://www.grit-texas.org/Newsletters/PDFs/Newsletter6.pdf



Chairman Bill Burch
Grassroots Institute of Texas
-------------------------------
-------------------------------

June 21, 2010
Dear Bill,
I want to thank you for the wonderful support that you and your GRIT leadership
provided me in my campaign for Chairman of the Republican Party of Texas.
GRIT leadership was a significant factor in my election. You personally contributed as much or more, than any other single individual to the campaign. By providing us the name of key leadership in districts where we didn’t have previous organization, you allowed us to mount a competitive campaign in all 31 State Senatorial districts. Since we only won the first round of voting by one Senatorial district, it is fair to say that the support of the GRIT leadership turned out to be crucial. I don’t believe it’s an exaggeration to say that the GRIT leadership changed the Republican Party of Texas leadership for the better. Congratulations on OUR victory!
I will be forever grateful.
Sincerely,
Steve Munisteri
State Chairman, Republican Party of Texas


===================================

about GRIT:

The Grass Roots Institute of Texas was established to insure that good legislation is passed, bad legislation is defeated and bad laws and statutes from the past are rescinded.

To accomplish this GRIT is establishing a network of interested parties and helping them to work together for Conservative government based on conservative principles.

GRIT is working with Think Tanks, Conservative Special Interest Groups, Independent Conservative and Republican Clubs, Tea Party and 9-12 Project Groups, Conservative speakers, Conservative Activist, and Conservative Legislators.

We do more than just make information available. We provide the means of delivering the information. This is done by Newsletters, Speakers, E-mails, and other media sources.

With the end goal targeted towards legislation, we work with our affiliated legislators to elect, train, inform and support them.

At this time much of what we will be doing is in the works. Everyone who becomes part of GRIT is asked to pitch in and help us in developing our goals. To help us is to help Texas. To help Texas is to help the United States.

-----------------

lynn

[speciallyblend]

if you do not register republican. then you are to blame if Ron Paul doesn't run or win the nomination in the gop,not the neo-cons just yourself!!! that is the bottom line!!!

[speciallyblend]

What has the Republican Party done to make this country better in the past 10-20 years?

NOTHING. Actually, the Republican Party of the last 10 years has done more damage to this country than any other political party in the history of the country...

and yet here you are trashing the libertarian party? Hah.

if your not registered republican and Ron Paul doesn't get the gop nomination. then your to blame Red Stripe. all those so called ron paUL SUPPORTERS WHO DO NOT REGISTER REPUBLICAN ARE AT FAULT! Period. if your not registered republican and ron paul fails to get the nomination. then you are to blame. that is the bottom line. i was lp for 12 yrs don't tell me what the lp[ is doing i know! that is why i listened to Ron Paul. if your not listening to Ron paul you shouldn't even bother really. your just wasting your time and mine if your not registered republican! you enjoy your lp pipedream!!

[RedStripe]

if you do not register republican. then you are to blame if Ron Paul doesn't run or win the nomination in the gop,n

only if he loses by 1

[heavenlyboy34]

if you do not register republican. then you are to blame if Ron Paul doesn't run or win the nomination in the gop,not the neo-cons just yourself!!! that is the bottom line!!!

:rolleyes: lolz!! Shifting the blame as usual, I see. Why wouldn't it be YOUR fault for not persuading the rest of the GOPers to support Ron? Can't you keep your own house in order? You're the one who thinks elections are so grand, after all.

‎"Democracy is the illusion that my wife and I, combined, have twice the political influence of David Rockefeller." - Butler Shaffer

[RedStripe]

if your not registered republican and Ron Paul doesn't get the gop nomination. then your to blame Red Stripe. all those so called ron paUL SUPPORTERS WHO DO NOT REGISTER REPUBLICAN ARE AT FAULT! Period. if your not registered republican and ron paul fails to get the nomination. then you are to blame. that is the bottom line. i was lp for 12 yrs don't tell me what the lp[ is doing i know! that is why i listened to Ron Paul. if your not listening to Ron paul you shouldn't even bother really. your just wasting your time if your not registered republican! you enjoy your lp pipedream!!

Statistically speaking, the true waste of time is voting. You would be better off standing outside of the polling place advocating for Ron Paul for the time it would take you to vote.

But don't let math get in the way of your personal crusade.

[speciallyblend]

Statistically speaking, the true waste of time is voting. You would be better off standing outside of the polling place advocating for Ron Paul for the time it would take you to vote.

But don't let math get in the way of your personal crusade.

if your not registered republican, you are to blame if Ron Paul does not run. that is all you have to know;)

[heavenlyboy34]

Statistically speaking, the true waste of time is voting. You would be better off standing outside of the polling place advocating for Ron Paul for the time it would take you to vote.

But don't let math get in the way of your personal crusade.

Soo true, it's not even funny.

[low preference guy]

:rolleyes: And you wonder why I call voting a cult? lolz!! This is probably the most disturbing thing I've seen you write, sb. Seriously, back away from the news RIGHT NOW! Don't make me unplug you!

i think this level of discouragement of political activism shouldn't be allowed.

this is general politics and speciallyblend is trying to encourage people to take over the gop, and this guy comes to debate whether voting is proper or not. he does this in way too many posts. but the philosophy section is for that.

[RedStripe]

if your not registered republican, you are to blame if Ron Paul does not run. that is all you have to know;)

Prove it. If you can (you can't).

[heavenlyboy34]

if your not registered republican, you are to blame if Ron Paul does not run. that is all you have to know;)

And you wonder why I call voting a rite of the cult of Democracy? Sheesh! I've heard less insane dogma in church! lolz

[speciallyblend]

Statistically speaking, the true waste of time is voting. You would be better off standing outside of the polling place advocating for Ron Paul for the time it would take you to vote.

But don't let math get in the way of your personal crusade.

yeah don't let Kevin Cannell(ron paul republican winning against the old school gop establishment let voting fool you at all!!! your anti-ron paul honestly. if you were pro-ron paul you would be registered republican. to be honest your the reason ron paul didn;t get nomnated in 2008! yes you and anyone that isn't registered republican. every rpf member that is not registered republican is the reason not the neo-cons!

[speciallyblend]

And you wonder why I call voting a rite of the cult of Democracy? Sheesh! I've heard less insane dogma in church! lolz

well if your not registered republican , your opinion of Ron Paul 2012 really doesn't matter. that is the bottom line! if your not registered republican your opinion counts as much as michelle malkin or bush!

[RedStripe]

yeah don't let Kevin Cannell(ron paul republican winning against the old school gop establishment let voting fool you at all!!! your anti-ron paul honestly. if you were pro-ron paul you would be registered republican. to be honest your the reason ron paul didn;t get nomnated in 2008! yes you and anyone that isn't registered republican. every rpf member that is not registered republican is the reason not the neo-cons!

Honest question - are you intoxicated? (no offense)

I'm anti-Ron Paul? Because I don't want to register as a Republican? That's hilarious.

Clearly you weren't around in 2008 - you know, the year I busted my ass to get Ron Paul votes in my county. I was registered as a Republican and spent the better part of a year doing everything I could to get him votes.

You don't understand electoral politics if you think that the tiny percent of Americans who refused to register as Republicans for the purpose of voting for Ron Paul in the primary caused him to lose. In fact, that would make you completely delusional.

[low preference guy]

You don't understand electoral politics if you think that the tiny percent of Americans who refused to register as Republicans for the purpose of voting for Ron Paul in the primary caused him to lose. In fact, that would make you completely delusional.

From my point of view you're the one who sounds delusional, as you're not being able to understand the multiplicative effect activism can have. This time the grassroots will be much bigger, and the only way to know if it reaches the tipping point is trying one's best to do everything in one's power to elect Ron Paul. Since he will be running in the GOP (if he runs), hijacking the GOP is among the things one should do.

[speciallyblend]

Honest question - are you intoxicated? (no offense)

I'm anti-Ron Paul? Because I don't want to register as a Republican? That's hilarious.

Clearly you weren't around in 2008 - you know, the year I busted my ass to get Ron Paul votes in my county. I was registered as a Republican and spent the better part of a year doing everything I could to get him votes.

You don't understand electoral politics if you think that the tiny percent of Americans who refused to register as Republicans for the purpose of voting for Ron Paul in the primary caused him to lose. In fact, that would make you completely delusional.

no i am at work. are you republican? if not your the problem of a 2012 run. register republican until then your no more help then a neo-con

[speciallyblend]

Honest question - are you intoxicated? (no offense)

I'm anti-Ron Paul? Because I don't want to register as a Republican? That's hilarious.

Clearly you weren't around in 2008 - you know, the year I busted my ass to get Ron Paul votes in my county. I was registered as a Republican and spent the better part of a year doing everything I could to get him votes.

You don't understand electoral politics if you think that the tiny percent of Americans who refused to register as Republicans for the purpose of voting for Ron Paul in the primary caused him to lose. In fact, that would make you completely delusional.

yes your anti-paul your doing nothing to get him nominated for 2012, your less help then a neo-con. they show up! i am better off talking to neo-cons then you. they are registered republican!

[RedStripe]

no i am at work. are you republican? if not your the problem of a 2012 run. register republican until then your no more help then a neo-con

Actually I would still be more help than a neo-con because I would donate to the campaign and help him out w/ letters to the editor, etc. A neo-con wouldn't even vote for him lol. You're crazy man.

[RedStripe]

yes your anti-paul your doing nothing to get him nominated for 2012, your less help then a neo-con. they show up! i am better off talking to neo-cons then you. they are registered republican!

There are other ways to help than registering as a Republican. Non-retards understand this.

[low preference guy]

Actually I would still be more help than a neo-con because I would donate to the campaign and help him out w/ letters to the editor, etc. A neo-con wouldn't even vote for him lol. You're crazy man.

you're doing all that and not doing what actually counts? voting for the man? how can you encourage people to vote for Ron Paul if you're not doing that yourself?

[speciallyblend]

There are other ways to help than registering as a Republican. Non-retards understand this.

explain to me as a non republican how you can vote for the nomination of Ron Paul 2012 in the gop. exactly!!! anything else you say is basically bs now!! that is the bottom line!!

[speciallyblend]

Actually I would still be more help than a neo-con because I would donate to the campaign and help him out w/ letters to the editor, etc. A neo-con wouldn't even vote for him lol. You're crazy man.

you are not a registered republican you are no help in nominating Ron Paul in the gop period! everything else you say is mute to that point and useless!

[speciallyblend]

you're doing all that and not doing what actually counts? voting for the man? how can you encourage people to vote for Ron Paul if you're not doing that yourself?

he doesn't want ron paul 2012 ,if he did he would register republican. anything else is bs talking and walking!!

[RedStripe]

you're doing all that and not doing what actually counts? voting for the man? how can you encourage people to vote for Ron Paul if you're not doing that yourself?

"actually counts"... do you even understand what Math is?

Challenge: name a single county in which Ron Paul lost by 1 vote. If you can't you can shut your trap.

[RedStripe]

In the time you guys have spent making crappy arguments for registering as republicans, you could have secured several votes for Ron Paul, or sold off some of your G.I. Joe toy action figure collection to help fund his candidacy.

But you didn't. Because you don't actually want him to win. You are the reason he will lose. Thanks A LOT for making the Ron Paul candidacy fail guys.

[low preference guy]

"actually counts"... do you even understand what Math is?

Challenge: name a single county in which Ron Paul lost by 1 vote. If you can't you can shut your trap.

a post in another thread answers that:


one person can encourage others to vote. that becomes many votes. but if you're not voting and the ask you, why are you asking me to vote if you're not doing it yourself? you can lie to them and tell them that you're voting, but lying is against the 10 commandments.

[RedStripe]

a post in another thread answers that:

I didn't realize that Bullshit was a county.

[low preference guy]

I didn't realize that Bullshit was a county.

i think any poster who reads my post and your response will easily realize who is full of bullshit. and that person won't be me. ;)

[RedStripe]

i think any poster who reads my post and your response will easily realize who is full of bullshit. and that person won't be me. ;)

I challenged you to name a county Ron Paul lost by one vote and you couldn't. Don't blame me for your weak arguments.

BTW you can still advocate for Ron Paul (or donate to his campaign) without being a Republican. Sometimes I wonder whether you guys were even active in 2008 (when a lot of us weren't Republican yet still made him extremely popular).

[heavenlyboy34]

i think any poster who reads my post and your response will easily realize who is full of bullshit. and that person won't be me. ;)

Actually, you're on the failing side of this thread. You've got nothing but dogma, wishful thinking, and general BS to back up your claims.

[low preference guy]

I challenged you to name a county Ron Paul lost by one vote and you couldn't. Don't blame me for your weak arguments.


i already answered why that's not a good test. i won't be repeating myself if you're too lazy to read.

[low preference guy]

Actually, you're on the failing side of this thread. You've got nothing but dogma, wishful thinking, and general BS to back up your claims.

give me one example of BS to back up my claims.

[RedStripe]

i already answered why that's not a good test. i won't be repeating myself if you're too lazy to read.

No it's a perfectly fine test of the perfectly stupid claim that a single person's decision to not register as a Republican will decide the Republican primary. You just can't answer it so you dodge.

Don't respond to me unless you have the name of a county that I requested several posts ago - stop wasting my time.

[low preference guy]

No it's a perfectly fine test of the perfectly stupid claim that a single person's decision to not register as a Republican will decide the Republican primary. You just can't answer it so you dodge.

Don't respond to me unless you have the name of a county that I requested several posts ago - stop wasting my time.

you're the one wasting your time and someone else's times. when i said why your test isn't valid, you responded with a straw man.

[RedStripe]

you're the one wasting your time and someone else's times. when i said why your test isn't valid, you responded with a straw man.

Wow, just be a man and admit you don't know of any county where Ron Paul lost by 1 vote.

Is it really that hard? Is your ego really that big of an obstacle to just admitting the truth?

[libertarian4321]

you are not a registered republican you are no help in nominating Ron Paul in the gop period! everything else you say is mute to that point and useless!

Did someone hijack SB's account?

When did you become the screaming GOP zealot?

Certainly there are many things one can do to help RP get nominated without getting in bed with the Devil (er, joining the GOP).

We can vote for RP, campaign for him, support him financially, etc- all of which, depending on your state, can be done without joining the GOP.

About the only thing we can't do is become delegates- and as I explained in another post, RP doesn't need a million delegates to win.

[TheTyke]

You know, Ron Paul couldn't win the Republican nomination if he's not registered Republican. He tried the 3rd party route, and he tried this one. Guess which started a revolution? I'm with SB here.

If you're not registered R, you can't participate in the conventions, choose nominees or vote for Ron - or do anything that actually HAS A TANGIBLE effect.

It almost seems like 3rd parties are where people afraid of conflict on behalf of their ideas go. Is it fun to rub shoulders with neocons, have to defend your ideas where there is actually something actually at stake? Is it fun to see the ugliness of politics up close and personal, and be subjected to cheating and corruption? Of course it's not fun, or easy. Nothing worth doing ever is.

But all the people who got fed up and left the fight to avoid conflict, chat with a couple friends who agree with them, and daydream that this is the year where people magically "awaken" en masse an actually elect even one person to federal office for the first time forty bloody years... If they would follow Ron's example, we'd be ousting even more incumbents (like Utah,) electing more constitutionalists (like Kentucky) and routing out the corrupt GOP officials (like Nevada).... these things would happen all over and handfuls of senators and reps would be 100% constitutional - not just 1. Bad legislation would be filibustered, and we wouldn't have to choose between a Democrat $1.4 trillion deficit and a Republican "only" $500 billion deficit.

Strategically, third parties have only one purpose - making your one of the two parties (your "side") lose, in hopes that they adopt your platform (which takes another election cycle.) And even then, they rarely get enough votes to even do that, and the next guy could just be lying to appease them - and you're STILL only influencing the two parties in power. Educating EVERYONE doesn't change policy AT ALLif you never elect anyone and leave the same people in office! How much more simple does it get?

Are you ready to fight for your beliefs like Ron has for decades? Are you ready to do what it takes to win your freedom? If you are, I'll see you at the conventions.

[low preference guy]

you know, ron paul couldn't win the republican nomination if he's not registered republican. He tried the 3rd party route, and he tried this one. Guess which started a revolution? I'm with sb here.

If you're not registered r, you can't participate in the conventions, choose nominees or vote for ron - or do anything that actually has a tangible effect.

It almost seems like 3rd parties are where people afraid of conflict on behalf of their ideas go. Is it fun to rub shoulders with neocons, have to defend your ideas where there is actually something actually at stake? Is it fun to see the ugliness of politics up close and personal, and be subjected to cheating and corruption? Of course it's not fun, or easy. Nothing worth doing ever is.

But all the people who got fed up and left the fight to avoid conflict, chat with a couple friends who agree with them, and daydream that this is the year where people magically "awaken" en masse an actually elect even one person to federal office for the first time forty bloody years... if they would follow ron's example, we'd be ousting even more incumbents (like utah,) electing more constitutionalists (like kentucky) and routing out the corrupt gop officials (like nevada).... These things would happen all over and handfuls of senators and reps would be 100% constitutional - not just 1. Bad legislation would be filibustered, and we wouldn't have to choose between a democrat $1.4 trillion deficit and a republican "only" $500 billion deficit.

Strategically, third parties have only one purpose - making your one of the two parties (your "side") lose, in hopes that they adopt your platform (which takes another election cycle.) and even then, they rarely get enough votes to even do that, and the next guy could just be lying to appease them - and you're still only influencing the two parties in power. Educating everyone wouldn't make a lick of difference to policy if you never elect anyone and leave the same people in office! How much more simple does it get?

Are you ready to fight for your beliefs like ron has for decades? Are you ready to do what it takes to win your freedom? If you are, i'll see you at the conventions.

+100

[newbitech]

You know, Ron Paul couldn't win the Republican nomination if he's not registered Republican. He tried the 3rd party route, and he tried this one. Guess which started a revolution? I'm with SB here.

If you're not registered R, you can't participate in the conventions, choose nominees or vote for Ron - or do anything that actually HAS A TANGIBLE effect.

It almost seems like 3rd parties are where people afraid of conflict on behalf of their ideas go. Is it fun to rub shoulders with neocons, have to defend your ideas where there is actually something actually at stake? Is it fun to see the ugliness of politics up close and personal, and be subjected to cheating and corruption? Of course it's not fun, or easy. Nothing worth doing ever is.

But all the people who got fed up and left the fight to avoid conflict, chat with a couple friends who agree with them, and daydream that this is the year where people magically "awaken" en masse an actually elect even one person to federal office for the first time forty bloody years... If they would follow Ron's example, we'd be ousting even more incumbents (like Utah,) electing more constitutionalists (like Kentucky) and routing out the corrupt GOP officials (like Nevada).... these things would happen all over and handfuls of senators and reps would be 100% constitutional - not just 1. Bad legislation would be filibustered, and we wouldn't have to choose between a Democrat $1.4 trillion deficit and a Republican "only" $500 billion deficit.

Strategically, third parties have only one purpose - making your one of the two parties (your "side") lose, in hopes that they adopt your platform (which takes another election cycle.) And even then, they rarely get enough votes to even do that, and the next guy could just be lying to appease them - and you're STILL only influencing the two parties in power. Educating EVERYONE doesn't change policy AT ALLif you never elect anyone and leave the same people in office! How much more simple does it get?

Are you ready to fight for your beliefs like Ron has for decades? Are you ready to do what it takes to win your freedom? If you are, I'll see you at the conventions.

http://collectingtokens.files.wordpress.com/2007/02/big_win_for_pants.jpg

[Meatwasp]

yes your anti-paul your doing nothing to get him nominated for 2012, your less help then a neo-con. they show up! i am better off talking to neo-cons then you. they are registered republican!
I agree with all your posts.

[libertarian4321]

If you're not registered R, you can't participate in the conventions, choose nominees or vote for Ron - or do anything that actually HAS A TANGIBLE effect.


Depending on where you live, you can do everything except go to the convention without registering.

I live in Texas, and I don't have to register Republican to vote in the GOP primary. Many other states have similar primary voting rules.

So I can do everything except go to the convention (and, of course, only a tiny fraction of a percent of his voters need to go to the convention for him to win) without having to soil myself with the GOP label.

[TheTyke]

So I can do everything except go to the convention (and, of course, only a tiny fraction of a percent of his voters need to go to the convention for him to win) without having to soil myself with the GOP label.

Obviously, we had plenty. :rolleyes:

But you see, some of us believe that defending the ideals of liberty are worth getting our hands dirty. A pity more didn't/don't think they're that important.

[libertarian4321]

Yep, we had more than enough in 2008! ... wait a sec.... :P

To win the GOP nomination in a close race, RP would likely need 15-20 MILLION votes.

To win the nomination, he needs just under 1,200 delegates.

Ergo, only a tiny percentage of those that vote for him need to be delegates.

Obviously, he didn't have anywhere near enough votes last time (and, as I said, voting often doesn't require registration), but if he doesn't have the votes, there's no point in being a delegate, is there?

So if he doesn't have the votes, there is no reason to register and become a delegate for ANYONE. If he does have the votes, only a TINY PERCENTAGE need to register and become delegates.

Hence, for a huge number of RP supporters, THERE IS NO REASON TO REGISTER REPUBLICAN AND BECOME A DELEGATE!

The primary, really, comes down to VOTES- and many states don't require registration to vote in the primary.

[WaltM]

Consider my proposal to first reconquest our Tea Party brand
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=257443

[MN Patriot]

the reason that the third party = fail comes up is because it's TRUE. the two major parties have the system rigged to favor themselves. Ron Paul himself recognizes this. and until something happens to change that, third party = fail and always will.

lynn

If the system is rigged for 3P = fail, then all this talk about the Tea Party movement taking over the Republican Party will fail, too. THE SYSTEM IS RIGGED.

Always? Did we always have a Republican Party? There came a time in history when the Federalist Party and the Whig Party became irrelevant.

This is an extraordinary time in history, times like these are when significant events take place, like the creation of new political parties and the extinction of failed political parties.

Republican Party = FAIL.

It has failed to stop our descent into socialism, and has actively helped it.

The establishment doesn't want their controlled opposition, supposedly free market / anti-socialist political party to go away. Keep people divided and conquered between two false dichotomies.

[MN Patriot]

You know, Ron Paul couldn't win the Republican nomination if he's not registered Republican. He tried the 3rd party route, and he tried this one. Guess which started a revolution? I'm with SB here.

If you're not registered R, you can't participate in the conventions, choose nominees or vote for Ron - or do anything that actually HAS A TANGIBLE effect.

It almost seems like 3rd parties are where people afraid of conflict on behalf of their ideas go. Is it fun to rub shoulders with neocons, have to defend your ideas where there is actually something actually at stake? Is it fun to see the ugliness of politics up close and personal, and be subjected to cheating and corruption? Of course it's not fun, or easy. Nothing worth doing ever is.

But all the people who got fed up and left the fight to avoid conflict, chat with a couple friends who agree with them, and daydream that this is the year where people magically "awaken" en masse an actually elect even one person to federal office for the first time forty bloody years... If they would follow Ron's example, we'd be ousting even more incumbents (like Utah,) electing more constitutionalists (like Kentucky) and routing out the corrupt GOP officials (like Nevada).... these things would happen all over and handfuls of senators and reps would be 100% constitutional - not just 1. Bad legislation would be filibustered, and we wouldn't have to choose between a Democrat $1.4 trillion deficit and a Republican "only" $500 billion deficit.

Strategically, third parties have only one purpose - making your one of the two parties (your "side") lose, in hopes that they adopt your platform (which takes another election cycle.) And even then, they rarely get enough votes to even do that, and the next guy could just be lying to appease them - and you're STILL only influencing the two parties in power. Educating EVERYONE doesn't change policy AT ALLif you never elect anyone and leave the same people in office! How much more simple does it get?

Are you ready to fight for your beliefs like Ron has for decades? Are you ready to do what it takes to win your freedom? If you are, I'll see you at the conventions.

I agree with you, except for some things people NEVER consider in these discussions:

1) There are some people who are SO brainwashed / delusional / whatever their problem, they will never change their party vote from Democrat to Republican, or support a libertarian running as a Republican instead of their usual neo-con candidate (look at 2008 when many Republicans opposed Ron Paul and supported McCain).

2) Once a liberty candidate is successfully elected, he is still a member of the Establishment controlled Republican Party. We aren't only fighting for our freedom against Americans who do not value freedom, but we are fighting for our freedom against an Establishment that has created a society where we are their slaves, oblivious to our predicament. The Establishment thrives on this false dichotomy that they created.

3) The Republican Party considers itself to be "conservative", which is relative term. What is it the Republicans want to conserve? What little freedom we have left? Our current corporatist economic system? The attempt to take over the Republican Party isn't a conservative movement, but mostly a libertarian movement. Why try to put new improved contents into a crappy brand name?

Even though people make good points about third parties failing in our recent history, there comes a time when enough people need to have a serious discussion of not only is it possible for a third party, based on libertarian principles, to rise up and put the Republican Party out of business, but HOW we are going to do that.

[MN Patriot]

the cp/lp/tp will be useless unless the gop crumbles and if the lp/cp/tp are waiting on that then they might as well stay useless parties! i can tell you if the gop crumbles the lp/tp/cp will still be useless unless they are willing to make a new political coalition since they are incapable of understanding Ron paul!

the point is they all bitch lp/cp/tp but are not willing to do what must be done reclaim the gop! if folks in the revolution are un willing to join the gop. they should just keep watching beck and the mickey mouse show and stop bitching and basically shtfu!!

AHA!

So what if the libertarian third parties combine, and make the Republican Party crumble? Then the third party would not be useless!

Note: please use capitalization out of consideration for people. Just about everyone else is able to press their shift key. Makes reading your posts easier.

[silentshout]

As a former Democrat and now independent, there is no way i could attend a GOP meeting and be taken seriously...nor do I want to. "conservative" in my local area, GOP means fundamentalist social conservative, gay-hating, militaristic neocon, and if you have ever voted for a Democrat, let alone admit being one before, you are not allowed into the club. I suppose I could try, but it would not be pretty.

[Flash]

So what if the libertarian third parties combine, and make the Republican Party crumble? Then the third party would not be useless!


You want the LP, CP, Reform Party, TP to merge? Good luck.

[ninepointfive]

The problem with Libertarians is some want to be ideological purists, and others just want a social club with no real prospects for winning elections. They are often very annoying to me, because I am willing to work to an end goal, while they are satisfied as being critical and nagging.

We will see no such support from the big L. sorry to say it.

[ninepointfive]

"actually counts"... do you even understand what Math is?

Challenge: name a single county in which Ron Paul lost by 1 vote. If you can't you can shut your trap.

LARIMER COUNTY COLORADO

case in point: I was elected a precinct committeeman to vote on the bonus members and other such votes for the Larimer County GOP. I didn't know how important it was to show up to this vote due to being disillusioned after the 2008 state convention.

HAD I SHOWN UP TO VOTE, MY ONE EXTRA VOTE COULD HAVE GOT ONE MORE BONUS MEMBER ELECTED, AND WE'D HAVE BECOME A MAJORITY IN THE COUNTY.

I am happy to have us all work together to get Ron Paul and others like him elected. Thank you for your contribution. However, you are doing us a disservice here by arguing so enthusiastically.

Add two more trolls to the list: heavenlyboy and redstripe.

[Akus]

Every LP/TP/CP Member should be a registered GOP member or they are just fooling themselves! Every Member of these parties should be demanding their leadership get with the program! If they fail to act then we will have to wait for the collapse of the GOP and even then the LP/TP/CP will have to merge into a new viable political coalition to survive and be viable!!

the bottom line is if LP/TP/CP members do not reclaim the GOP! Then they are to blame and might as well not vote or be a member of any party!!

some folks need to wtf up!! asap and get involved or they might as well not bitch because they are the problem!!

Liberty Candidates 2010, Ron Paul 2012!!!!!!!!

Hey SpeciallyBlend, ...... no.

[heavenlyboy34]

If the system is rigged for 3P = fail, then all this talk about the Tea Party movement taking over the Republican Party will fail, too. THE SYSTEM IS RIGGED.

Always? Did we always have a Republican Party? There came a time in history when the Federalist Party and the Whig Party became irrelevant.

This is an extraordinary time in history, times like these are when significant events take place, like the creation of new political parties and the extinction of failed political parties.

Republican Party = FAIL.

It has failed to stop our descent into socialism, and has actively helped it.

The establishment doesn't want their controlled opposition, supposedly free market / anti-socialist political party to go away. Keep people divided and conquered between two false dichotomies.

Your post is full of win. :cool::D

[speciallyblend]

bottom line, if your not a republican delegate in the gop. then your basically useless in securing the gop nomination for Ron Paul 2012, all the 3rd parties are useless in securing Ron Paul 2012 gop nomination! the bottom line if the leaders of the cp.lp/tp cannot join the gop and help reclaim the gop and a Ron paul nomination. then they are useless in securing the gop nomination for Ron paul. the lp/cp/tp will be useless unless they are ready to ditch their platform and party and create a new coalition and new brandname and new party ,unless they are willing to go the easy route and return to the gop and reclaim it. the lp/cp/tp will be useless as 3rd parties and will never become a mainstream party under their platform or party name unless the gop crumbles and they are willing to form a new party coalition ! period

[MN Patriot]

You want the LP, CP, Reform Party, TP to merge? Good luck.

What is to prevent enough Tea Party people to join both the LP and Constitution Parties, then vote to merge them into one. That seems to be about the only way to merge them in my opinion. But it would take alot of effort and time, that may be better used to take over the GOP. But will enough of us ever bother with that?

Sooner or later something has to happen. It already is, but it isn't enough.

[MN Patriot]

The problem with Libertarians is some want to be ideological purists, and others just want a social club with no real prospects for winning elections. They are often very annoying to me, because I am willing to work to an end goal, while they are satisfied as being critical and nagging.

We will see no such support from the big L. sorry to say it.

After several years in the LP, I fully agree. Most libertarians are NOT members of the LP, they are minding their own business. Some of them in the Republican Party are continually frustrated with the way that party is run.

[dean.engelhardt]

Every LP/TP/CP Member should be a registered GOP member or they are just fooling themselves! Every Member of these parties should be demanding their leadership get with the program! If they fail to act then we will have to wait for the collapse of the GOP and even then the LP/TP/CP will have to merge into a new viable political coalition to survive and be viable!!

the bottom line is if LP/TP/CP members do not reclaim the GOP! Then they are to blame and might as well not vote or be a member of any party!!

some folks need to wtf up!! asap and get involved or they might as well not bitch because they are the problem!!

Liberty Candidates 2010, Ron Paul 2012!!!!!!!!

Some of us don't like the lobbyist control over the 2 party system. Sorry, but if a republican wants my vote, he will have to earn it.

[MN Patriot]

bottom line, if your not a republican delegate in the gop. then your basically useless in securing the gop nomination for Ron Paul 2012, all the 3rd parties are useless in securing Ron Paul 2012 gop nomination! the bottom line if the leaders of the cp.lp/tp cannot join the gop and help reclaim the gop and a Ron paul nomination. then they are useless in securing the gop nomination for Ron paul. the lp/cp/tp will be useless unless they are ready to ditch their platform and party and create a new coalition and new brandname and new party ,unless they are willing to go the easy route and return to the gop and reclaim it. the lp/cp/tp will be useless as 3rd parties and will never become a mainstream party under their platform or party name unless the gop crumbles and they are willing to form a new party coalition ! period

What about year 2016, 2020? Will we still be worshiping Ron Paul as our only savior?

We don't need Ron Paul as president. We need thousands of Ron Pauls in office all over the country. If we can do that using the GOP, great, but I have serious doubts about the GOP, since the GOP is just a puppet party used by the Establishment who doesn't care which party enacts their agenda.

We need to recognize who we are battling. It isn't just the leftist Democrats. It is the leftist / corporatist Establishment that wants to eliminate personal freedom. Obviously neither party wants a third party ruining their hold on power, and all their lemming members share the same concern. That is why there are so many obstacles for third parties, and why the Establishment media treats them like weirdos.

I see you DO acknowledge third parties COULD be the key to our freedom. We should have serious discussions of how to make that happen, if only to make the Establishment nervous.

[ninepointfive]

Some of us don't like the lobbyist control over the 2 party system. Sorry, but if a republican wants my vote, he will have to earn it.

Does Ron Paul have your Republican vote?