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View Full Version : Obama did NOT seal off all of his records via executive order




jmdrake
08-19-2010, 07:12 AM
I posted this in another thread in HT, but this fallacy comes up so much that I wanted to address it to a more general audience. There is a false rumor going around that Executive Order 13489 "seals off all of Obama's records". Supposedly this is how Obama can seal off his school and birth records. Here's the problem. That Executive Order only affects presidential records and by the definition in the executive order, records made prior to being elected president are NOT "presidential records". People who think that either haven't read the executive order or haven't read the statute it was amending or haven't done the proper statutory analysis. Here's what I offer as proof.

The executive order in question states that the archivist must give the incumbent president notice before disclosing presidential records and must consult with the administration before releasing the presidential records of former presidents. The executive order defines "presidential records" as those defined as such in the "Presidential Records Act". From that act:

(2) The term "Presidential records" means documentary materials, or any reasonably segregable portion thereof, created or received by the President, his immediate staff, or a unit or individual of the Executive Office of the President whose function is to advise and assist the President, in the course of conducting activities which relate to or have an effect upon the carrying out of the constitutional, statutory, or other official or ceremonial duties of the President. Such term--

(A) includes any documentary materials relating to the political activities of the President or members of his staff, but only if such activities relate to or have a direct effect upon the carrying out of constitutional, statutory, or other official or ceremonial duties of the President; but

(B) does not include any documentary materials that are (i) official records of an agency (as defined in section 552(e) of title 5, United States Code; (ii) personal records; (iii) stocks of publications and stationery; or (iv) extra copies of documents produced only for convenience of reference, when such copies are clearly so identified.

Presidential records must have been:

1) Created during the course of being president
2) Created by the president or his staff or advisers and
3) Created pursuant to official duties as president

So unless school records, birth certificates or other documents that people seem so interested in were created while Obama was president and created by him or his staff or advisers and pursuant to his official duties as president, then they aren't covered by this executive order.

Further even campaign records are not covered by this executive order. The Presidential Records Act defines campaign records under "personal records". See:

(3) The term "personal records" means all documentary materials, or any reasonably segregable portion thereof, of a purely private or nonpublic character which do not relate to or have an effect upon the carrying out of the constitutional, statutory, or other official or ceremonial duties of the President. Such term includes--

(A) diaries, journals, or other personal notes serving as the functional equivalent of a diary or journal which are not prepared or utilized for, or circulated or communicated in the course of, transacting Government business;

(B) materials relating to private political associations, and having no relation to or direct effect upon the carrying out of constitutional, statutory, or other official or ceremonial duties of the President; and

(C) materials relating exclusively to the President’s own election to the office of the Presidency; and materials directly relating to the election of a particular individual or individuals to Federal, State, or local office, which have no relation to or direct effect upon the carrying out of constitutional, statutory, or other official or ceremonial duties of the President.

So no. Obama did not "seal off his records via executive order". Even if we assume the worst and that Obama wanted to hide his records in order to be "electable", that would at best fall under "personal records" and not "presidential records". Finally this executive order only applies to information under the control of the archivist. It doesn't apply to school records because they are not under the national archivist's control.

RedStripe
08-19-2010, 07:54 AM
Bravo sir. I salute this effort to stem the rising tide of ignorance.

wizardwatson
08-19-2010, 08:04 AM
Ok, never heard this rumor or anything about this executive order, but question...

Why is our "transparency" President sealing off his Presidential records? Is something every President does? Why the order at all?

wizardwatson
08-19-2010, 08:06 AM
Never mind...

http://blogcritics.org/politics/article/the-executive-order-13489-fallacy/


Starting with Reagan it has been the practice of successive presidents to keep their operating records secret until a later date when they are made public as part of the comprehensive record of their presidency. This concern over the secrecy of White House records clearly originated in the aftermath of the Nixon presidency, which explains the discussion of executive privilege in the orders in question. It's equally clear that none of these prior presidents had any interest in concealing President Obama's birth records.

hillertexas
08-19-2010, 08:20 AM
thank you

Yieu
08-19-2010, 08:36 AM
I doubt anyone here would argue against the OP, but I hadn't heard of this argument either. But arguments against the OP definitely do not come from the RP movement.

TinCanToNA
08-19-2010, 08:50 AM
It is good to dispel this myth before it took hold of too many people. I saw this myth posted (and presented as fact) on that one thread "outing" the President as a product of the CIA.

anaconda
05-15-2012, 01:03 PM
But isn't it true that no one can seem to get his college records from any time period?

jmdrake
05-15-2012, 01:11 PM
But isn't it true that no one can seem to get his college records from any time period?

I don't know. Is it? Do you have any actual report of someone who tried to get them and failed? Did they explain the procedure they went through? Were they able to get any other records from the same college, or did the registrar tell them to buzz off?

anaconda
05-15-2012, 02:36 PM
I don't know. Is it? Do you have any actual report of someone who tried to get them and failed? Did they explain the procedure they went through? Were they able to get any other records from the same college, or did the registrar tell them to buzz off?

I believe I see your point.

libertyjam
05-15-2012, 02:40 PM
http://www.westernjournalism.com/exclusive-investigative-reports/the-mystery-of-barack-obama-continues/


The president who campaigned for a more “open government” and “full disclosure” will not unseal his medical records, his school records, his birth records or his passport records. He will not release his Harvard records, his Columbia College records, or his Occidental College records—he will not even release his Columbia College thesis. All his legislative records from the Illinois State Senate are missing and he claims his scheduling records during those State Senate years are lost as well. In addition, no one can find his school records for the elite K-12 college prep school, Punahou School, he attended in Hawaii.

What is he hiding? Well, for starters, some of these records will shed light on his citizenship and birth.

For example, Obama’s application to Punahou School – now mysteriously missing – would likely contain a birth certificate. And,according to attorney Gary Kreep, “his Occidental College records are important as they may show he attended there as a foreign exchange student.” Indeed, Obama used his Indonesian name “Barry Soetoro” while attending Occidental. Kreep has filed lawsuits challenging Obama’s eligibility to be president and as part of his lawsuit he requested Obama’s records from Occidental. However, Obama’s lawyers quickly moved to stop Occidental from honoring this request.
...
Indeed, everywhere one looks into Obama’s background, we find sealed records, scrubbed websites, altered documents, deception and unanswered questions. Can anyone imagine for a second if John McCain or George Bush had blocked access to his school, medical, and birth records? It would have been headlines in their case, but as with everything else concerning Obama, the media has given him a pass on this.

Wayne Madsen - http://www.freepeoples5thestate.com/2011/08/living-dangerously-in-jakarta.html
PressTV interview - White House happy with CIA-trained Obama http://previous.presstv.ir/detail.aspx?id=140143&sectionid=3510302

The other side: http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/bookmarks/fact-checking-and-debunking/the-debunkers-guide-to-obama-conspiracy-theories/

timosman
11-04-2017, 12:03 AM
bump