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View Full Version : Muslims voices against the "Ground Zero Mosque"




ibaghdadi
08-18-2010, 03:29 AM
"On the morning of September 11, 2001, from the sitting room of my downtown Washington, D.C. apartment, Good Morning America was interrupted for breaking news. I stood frozen in time watching in utter despair as the ensuing tragedy unfolded.

"I was born and raised in the United States and I am proud to be an American. But as a Muslim, it is my hope and prayer that voices of reason prevail in the final decision of where to construct the Cordoba Initiative's project, God-willing, and the parties involved in this can agree to compromise in choosing a less offensive location. For everyone's sake.

"Regardless of who is to blame for the tragic events that took place on September 11, 2001, the currently proposed location for the Cordoba Initiative's project will never be viewed as anything less than an affront to the survivors, and those who lost loved ones on that ill-fated autumn day in New York. "

Source: http://bit.ly/aMrDV2.

00_Pete
08-18-2010, 03:36 AM
Muslim or Christians should be praying for the Capital of Evil (New York) to suffer the same fate Sodom and Gamorra suffered instead of trying to open any place of worship there. Same goes for LA too...

Minuteman2012
08-18-2010, 03:39 AM
Sodom and Gamorra sounded like fun. Gambling, roughhousing, prostitution, liquor, pre marital sex, sodomy, and no church on sundays.

BlackTerrel
08-18-2010, 04:29 AM
Muslim or Christians should be praying for the Capital of Evil (New York) to suffer the same fate Sodom and Gamorra suffered instead of trying to open any place of worship there. Same goes for LA too...

Any place else you want to destroy Pete?

You should be put on a terror watch list.

00_Pete
08-18-2010, 04:39 AM
Any place else you want to destroy Pete?

You should be put on a terror watch list.

London (New York of Europe) and Jerusalem would be good too...but Jesus cant come back if Jerusalem is destroyed.

YumYum
08-18-2010, 04:42 AM
London (New York of Europe) and Jerusalem would be good too...but Jesus cant come back if Jerusalem is destroyed.

Your kidding, right?

00_Pete
08-18-2010, 04:50 AM
Your kidding, right?

Nope. Vaporizing New York, LA, London and Jerusalem (and probably Berlin and Paris) would be the same as the Alien Mothership being destroyed in "Independence Day". It would be like MLK´s "...free at last...free at last!" :)

But Jerusalem would have to stay so Jesus can come back sitting in a cloud of immense Glory.

Stary Hickory
08-18-2010, 06:45 AM
And agree with that guys quote. The site where 2000 people died is not the place to make a political or religous statement.

RedStripe
08-18-2010, 06:46 AM
Muslim or Christians should be praying for the Capital of Evil (New York) to suffer the same fate Sodom and Gamorra suffered instead of trying to open any place of worship there. Same goes for LA too...

lol

NCGOPer_for_Paul
08-18-2010, 07:23 AM
Forgive me if this is offensive, or if I come off sounding like a neo-con, because that is not my intent.

The argument is not whether or not the NY Muslims have a right to build the mosque. If it is private property, they should have the right to do whatever they'd like with the property. The issue comes down to respect. Why in that spot, and why open on 9-11? Is it TRULY just a house of worship, or is it being placed there to make a statement? I could really care less if a mosque gets built anywhere else in New York City. It just boils down to an issue of respect.

I equate it almost to the whole gay marriage debate. Do they gays truly want to be married (TRUE definition of the word), or do they just want the rights granted by government to married people? I have no problem granting the rights through contract law, but I do have a problem calling their unions marriages. Better yet, just get rid of civil marriage...but that's a thread for another day.

Similarly, can my church look to build a church in Saudi Arabia? Iran? It's highly doubtful. Even if we arranged to buy property, those governments would not allow it. I am NOT saying the governments of the United States, state of New York, city of New York, and borough of Manhattan should forcibly stop the building of the mosque. What I am saying is I seriously hope the Muslims building this mosque completely understand that if the situation was reversed, and Christians or Jews were trying to build a church or a temple ANYWHERE in a "Muslim" country, it would be denied, and the petitioners would possibly be jailed or killed.

jmdrake
08-18-2010, 07:28 AM
Similarly, can my church look to build a church in Saudi Arabia? Iran? It's highly doubtful. Even if we arranged to buy property, those governments would not allow it. I am NOT saying the governments of the United States, state of New York, city of New York, and borough of Manhattan should forcibly stop the building of the mosque. What I am saying is I seriously hope the Muslims building this mosque completely understand that if the situation was reversed, and Christians or Jews were trying to build a church or a temple ANYWHERE in a "Muslim" country, it would be denied, and the petitioners would possibly be jailed or killed.

How do you explain this then? (A Christian church in Iran).

http://ce.et.tudelft.nl/~sabeghi/gallery/albums/IRAN/church.jpg

My own denomination ran a Christian hospital in Afghanistan throughout the Taliban years. No problem.

Another Christian church in Iran.

http://torkzadeh.com/files/vank_church_isfahan_iran_copyright_ali_torkzadeh.c om.jpg

http://torkzadeh.com/files/vank_church2_isfahan_iran_copyright_ali_torkzadeh. com.jpg

And the write-up:

http://torkzadeh.com/ali/node/522
E.S., church worker, Vank Orthodox Church, est. 1604 CE., the focal point of the Armenian community in Isfahan, Iran.

“Foreigners come here a lot and they are usually shocked that here in Iran, they would find a 400-year-old Christian church and in such good shape too.

“All the paintings are original. They have not been repaired.

“The architect was good; the painters were good; the paints they used were good quality; and they’ve done a good job maintaining the church.

“Shah Abbas brought the Armenians here because he saw that they were good businessmen and wanted Iranians benefit from their culture.

Do you see yourself as primarily Iranian or Armenian?

“We are Armenians living here. Iran is just a name where many nationalities live together. The name Iran isn’t even more than 70 years old. Have you ever heard of the tribe of Iran? No. But you’ve heard of Turkemans, Turks, Azaris, Armenians, Bakhtiaris, Baluches, and the list goes on. We are all different nationalities living together in a place that happens to be called Iran.

“USSR also wanted to make one people out of many different and couldn’t do it.



“The government of Iran pays to help maintain the churches here. In Turkey it’s the opposite; they try to bring us down.

“Now you see what a strange world we live in. Iranians are called terrorists yet Turkey, which still denies the massacre of Armenians, is being allowed to join the European Union. With what civilization are they going to join Europe? It would be like pouring water into wine.

“We’ve heard that in the West there’s publicity that coming to Iran is not safe. But when they come here, they wonder what was all the safety talk about. They are treated like heroes here.

“It’s all politics. Nothing makes sense. And somehow, after all this publicity, after all this talk about fighting terror, they still can’t find this one man called bin Laden.

RedStripe
08-18-2010, 07:35 AM
The only people who are actually going to be upset about this probably don't live in NYC and have never even been to a mosque. There is no legitimate reason to be upset about this mosque, and just because people are upset about something (for no good reason), that doesn't mean that the people doing it are the bad guys or should be put on the defensive. The people with the burden of proof are the people who are bitching about this - they need to show that's there's even a reason to be upset (and being upset because someone else might be upset is not a good reason, sorry).

NCGOPer_for_Paul
08-18-2010, 07:35 AM
^That's very interesting.

However, the write-up did say that in Turkey (a supposedly secular Muslim country), churches aren't allowed.

NCGOPer_for_Paul
08-18-2010, 07:39 AM
The only people who are actually going to be upset about this probably don't live in NYC and have never even been to a mosque. There is no legitimate reason to be upset about this mosque, and just because people are upset about something (for no good reason), that doesn't mean that the people doing it are the bad guys or should be put on the defensive. The people with the burden of proof are the people who are bitching about this - they need to show that's there's even a reason to be upset (and being upset because someone else might be upset is not a good reason, sorry).


I'm upset about it because I don't think it shows respect for what happened on 9-11-01.

And, I'm orginially from North Jersey, and still feel culturally attached to NYC.

jmdrake
08-18-2010, 07:58 AM
^That's very interesting.

However, the write-up did say that in Turkey (a supposedly secular Muslim country), churches aren't allowed.

Churches are allowed in Turkey. You misunderstood the writeup. Turks hate Armenians. But that's an ethnic thing more than a religious thing. Turks also hate Kurds even though the majority of Kurds are Sunni Muslims. When Turks attack Kurds they don't separate out the majority Muslims from the minority Christians, Jewish and Yazidi Kurds.

A Christian church in Turkey.

http://www.christiansofiraq.com/turkeychristian.jpg

http://www.schjolberg.com/images/Turkey,%20Istanbul,%20Church%20Aghia%20Sophia,%20C upula%20-%20Photo%20by%20Visit%20Turkey.jpg

jmdrake
08-18-2010, 08:02 AM
I'm upset about it because I don't think it shows respect for what happened on 9-11-01.

And, I'm orginially from North Jersey, and still feel culturally attached to NYC.

So how far away is far enough away? Two blocks? Five blocks? Fifteen blocks?

Jon Stewart hilariously raises the same question.

http://tv.gawker.com/5609824/jon-stewart-calls-out-those-blindly-opposed-to-ground-zero-mosque

carlos1215
08-18-2010, 01:51 PM
Source: http://bit.ly/aMrDV2.

what pathetic drivel from a gutless self effacing Muslim. Does the writer really believe that that by buckling under in the face of anto-Muslim bigotry will somehow make these ignoramouses like Muslims???

Its time the Muslims stood up in a unified front and declare boldly....MUSLIMS DID NOT DO 9/11!!!!!

carlos1215
08-18-2010, 01:51 PM
I'm upset about it because I don't think it shows respect for what happened on 9-11-01.

And, I'm orginially from North Jersey, and still feel culturally attached to NYC.

MUSLIMS DID NOT DO 9/11!!!!!

ae911truth.org

marc1888
08-18-2010, 02:13 PM
Do a google search for Mohammad Salman Hamdami, Rahma Salie or Mohammad Chowdhury. Better still go to New York and tell the 8 year old Farqad Chowdhury that building a mosque on 'hallowed ground' is an affront to his fathers memory. I can give you the name of 60 'known' other victims if you want. Victims that the nutcases and politicians shamefully couldn't care less about and ignore because it doesn't suit their agenda.

What is disrespectful is to sully a whole group of people by the actions of individuals. What is disrespectful is to interpret the constitution to fit a very narrow definition that you agree with. What is disrespectful is to somehow argue that the United States should throw away our constitutional republic and the protections guaranteed because some statist nutcase somewhere else wont allow us to do something. Muslims are not monolithic. To blame every Muslim for 9/11 is the equivalent of blaming every American for the holocaust. There was more than 19 volksdeutschers who returned to Germany to answer the call of the fatherland after all...


Forgive me if this is offensive, or if I come off sounding like a neo-con, because that is not my intent.

The argument is not whether or not the NY Muslims have a right to build the mosque. If it is private property, they should have the right to do whatever they'd like with the property. The issue comes down to respect. Why in that spot, and why open on 9-11? Is it TRULY just a house of worship, or is it being placed there to make a statement? I could really care less if a mosque gets built anywhere else in New York City. It just boils down to an issue of respect.

I equate it almost to the whole gay marriage debate. Do they gays truly want to be married (TRUE definition of the word), or do they just want the rights granted by government to married people? I have no problem granting the rights through contract law, but I do have a problem calling their unions marriages. Better yet, just get rid of civil marriage...but that's a thread for another day.

Similarly, can my church look to build a church in Saudi Arabia? Iran? It's highly doubtful. Even if we arranged to buy property, those governments would not allow it. I am NOT saying the governments of the United States, state of New York, city of New York, and borough of Manhattan should forcibly stop the building of the mosque. What I am saying is I seriously hope the Muslims building this mosque completely understand that if the situation was reversed, and Christians or Jews were trying to build a church or a temple ANYWHERE in a "Muslim" country, it would be denied, and the petitioners would possibly be jailed or killed.

RedStripe
08-18-2010, 02:15 PM
Do a google search for Mohammad Salman Hamdami, Rahma Salie or Mohammad Chowdhury. Better still go to New York and tell the 8 year old Farqad Chowdhury that building a mosque on 'hallowed ground' is an affront to his fathers memory. I can give you the name of 60 'known' other victims if you want. Victims that the nutcases and politicians shamefully couldn't care less about and ignore because it doesn't suit their agenda.

What is disrespectful is to sully a whole group of people by the actions of individuals. What is disrespectful is to interpret the constitution to fit a very narrow definition that you agree with. What is disrespectful is to somehow argue that the United States should throw away our constitutional republic and the protections guaranteed because some statist nutcase somewhere else wont allow us to do something. Muslims are not monolithic. To blame every Muslim for 9/11 is the equivalent of blaming every American for the holocaust. There was more than 19 volksdeutschers who returned to Germany to answer the call of the fatherland after all...

Yea, I wish this was something that people talked about more w/r/t this issue: that many of the victims were Muslims, and it is adding insult to injury to repress their religion in their own names.

Andrew-Austin
08-18-2010, 02:21 PM
Muslim or Christians should be praying for the Capital of Evil (New York) to suffer the same fate Sodom and Gamorra suffered instead of trying to open any place of worship there. Same goes for LA too...

The mods should spare the entire forum the trouble of putting certain nut jobs on our ignore lists.

oyarde
08-18-2010, 03:29 PM
London (New York of Europe) and Jerusalem would be good too...but Jesus cant come back if Jerusalem is destroyed.

What do you have against Jerusalem ?

BlackTerrel
08-18-2010, 06:14 PM
Churches are allowed in Turkey. You misunderstood the writeup. Turks hate Armenians. But that's an ethnic thing more than a religious thing. Turks also hate Kurds even though the majority of Kurds are Sunni Muslims. When Turks attack Kurds they don't separate out the majority Muslims from the minority Christians, Jewish and Yazidi Kurds.

I support the Mosque but let's not act like Christians have it all hunky dory in Turkey.

http://www.aina.org/news/20100708120749.htm

http://www.thaindian.com/newsportal/world/60-minutes-reveals-the-plight-of-orthodox-christians-in-turkey_100409525.html

http://www.catholic.org/international/international_story.php?id=35084

Yet more than two-thirds of all Turks (68 percent) expressed a negative view of Christians in the 2009 Pew Global Attitudes Survey...

...The Ecumenical Patriarch Bartholomew, who is the leader of 300 Million of the world’s orthodox Christians, said that he is adamant to stay in Turkey because he felt that the orthodox Christians loved the country they were born in and want to die. At the turn of the century there were as many as 2 million orthodox Christians but now there are merely 4000 left.

68% of the population has a negative view of Christians and the number of orthodox Christians went from 2,000,000 to 4,000. Basically a reduction of 99.5% of the countries Orthodox Christians which is an ethnic cleansing any way you slice it.

While they may allow a couple Churches - they aren't exactly the most tolerant bunch.

marc1888
08-18-2010, 09:22 PM
To be fair the secular Turkish govt up until recently didnt really like Muslims much either. If i am reading it right the figures are a bit skewered. The turks and greeks had a massive exchange of population, not nice but muslims left greek controlled lands and christians left muslim controlled turkey. Their was also the genocide of Armenians which had nothing to do with Christianity and everything to do with nationalism and ethnic hatred. Looking at the figures it looks like their are 236 active churches in Turkey for a christian population of 45,000. Which is one church for every 190 christians or so... Doesnt seem to bad.

By the way i am not questioning at all that Christians have an easy life in Turkey, far from it. However Muslims dont have an easy life in Europe. Catholics dont have an easy life in Scotland or Northern Ireland and Christians dont have an easy life in Israel.


I support the Mosque but let's not act like Christians have it all hunky dory in Turkey.

http://www.aina.org/news/20100708120749.htm

http://www.thaindian.com/newsportal/world/60-minutes-reveals-the-plight-of-orthodox-christians-in-turkey_100409525.html

http://www.catholic.org/international/international_story.php?id=35084

Yet more than two-thirds of all Turks (68 percent) expressed a negative view of Christians in the 2009 Pew Global Attitudes Survey...

...The Ecumenical Patriarch Bartholomew, who is the leader of 300 Million of the world’s orthodox Christians, said that he is adamant to stay in Turkey because he felt that the orthodox Christians loved the country they were born in and want to die. At the turn of the century there were as many as 2 million orthodox Christians but now there are merely 4000 left.

68% of the population has a negative view of Christians and the number of orthodox Christians went from 2,000,000 to 4,000. Basically a reduction of 99.5% of the countries Orthodox Christians which is an ethnic cleansing any way you slice it.

While they may allow a couple Churches - they aren't exactly the most tolerant bunch.