Wal-Mart Quietly Raises Prices

[Rael]

Just the other day i noticed the off brand sodas went from 66 cents to 78 cents. this report does not surprise me now.

Wal-Mart Quietly Raises Prices
Published on 08-17-2010 Email To Friend Print Version
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Source: Daily Finance

Wal-Mart Stores (WMT), which for years has touted its prowess at lowering prices, has been doing the opposite as it tries to bolster its bottom line amid stagnating sales.

A JPMorgan Chase (JPM) study of a Walmart Supercenter in Virginia found that the world's largest retailer has raised prices by nearly 6% on average over the past six weeks, according to the New York Post. Reuters says it was the biggest sequential increase since JPMorgan started the study in January 2009.

Some Prices Hiked Over 60%

Some of the price hikes were considerably larger. For instance, the price of a 32-ounce bottle of Windex household cleaner jumped 50%, a 12-ounce box of Quaker Oats instant grits climbed 65% and a 50-ounce container of Tide detergent rose by more than 50%. A spokesperson for the Bentonville, Ark., company could not immediately be reached for comment.

The results of the price-hike study aren't entirely surprising. Shares of Wal-Mart, which rose at the height of the recent recession, are down more than 2% this year amid lackluster performance at its U.S. stores, where same-store sales fell 1.1% during the 13 weeks ended April 30. When Wal-Mart announced a revamping of the management team overseeing these stores, including the departures of CEO and President of Wal-Mart U.S. Eduardo Castro-Wright and Chief Merchandising Officer John Fleming, current Wal-Mart U.S. CEO Bill Simon bluntly said, "our mandate is clear: increase customer traffic, make sure our products are relevant to our customer and never give an inch on price leadership."

Unfortunately for Wal-Mart, keeping prices low is tough with less store traffic. To make matters worse, rivals appear to be doing better. Target (TGT) reported a 2% gain in July same-store sales, which are a key metric for retail investors. Kohl's (KSS) reported a 4.1% gain. Wal-Mart stopped releasing monthly same-store sales figures for its units last year, so making an apples-to-apples comparison is difficult.

[Bern]

Interesting. Everyone's predicting severe deflation to gain momentum before the Fed is forced to counter the pendulum with another round of QE.

[forsmant]

most businesses generally dont advertise price increases.

[ChaosControl]

Wal-Mart is the devil.

[Rael]

most businesses generally dont advertise price increases.

lol touche

[oyarde]

I think the only thing I purchased there this year was some weed killer and a tent ? Do alot of you use these stores?

[Epic]

Leftists get mad at Walmart when they put their prices too low, and when Walmart raises their prices.

Walmart can't win.

[angelatc]

I love WalMart and was happy when they decided to open one right here, but they've apparently cut way back on selection. I hardly go there now.

[YumYum]

Interesting. Everyone's predicting severe deflation to gain momentum before the Fed is forced to counter the pendulum with another round of QE.

The items that are inflating are food and disposables. Items that are deflating are things that can be resold. People are liquidating used goods at unbelievably low prices and this hurts the retail of new products.

[oyarde]

The items that are inflating are food and disposables. Items that are deflating are things that can be resold. People are liquidating used goods at unbelievably low prices and this hurts the retail of new products.

I buy disposables at a Dollar Store.Cheaper there.

[speciallyblend]

vows to never shop wal-mart again. i will do my best never to step foot in that store ever again and raising prices has nothing to do with it F Walmart!

[Natalie]

Wal-Mart is the devil.

This Penn and Teller episode about Walmart is really good. Everyone hates walmart, but I like walmart and so do Penn and Teller.

YouTube - Penn and Teller Bullshit S05E02 Walmart PART 1 of 4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-o1fj1rX7A)

[Live_Free_Or_Die]

http://i34.tinypic.com/rixi0n.jpg

Did you leave one?

[oyarde]

This Penn and Teller episode about Walmart is really good. Everyone hates walmart, but I like walmart and so do Penn and Teller.

YouTube - Penn and Teller Bullshit S05E02 Walmart PART 1 of 4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-o1fj1rX7A)

If everyone hates it , how do they do so well ? Do people who hate it still go there ?

[Natalie]

I buy disposables at a Dollar Store.Cheaper there.

I bought a Sams card recently and now I purchase all my paper products and things that don't go bad at Sams. Most of their stuff is cheaper than Walmart.

This guy compared some prices of items at Sam's, CVS, Walmart, Lowes, and Food Lion. Sams was cheapest for almost everything.

http://getoutofdebt.org/944/sams-club-cvs-walmart-lowes-food-food-lion-who-has-the-best-rices

[MozoVote]

Even though I want to diss WalMart, I have to admit there are 3 things I like.

- You don't have to use a stupid "store" card to get discounts.

- They're open 24 hours.

- WalMart does make a practice of opening stores in depressed parts of the city that snobbier chains avoid.

[Knightskye]

Uh-huh. And at the grocery store where I've worked for the past five years, some prices have increased steadily.

Bet you progressives are using this as anti-Walmart propaganda.

[ClayTrainor]

but I like walmart and so do Penn and Teller.

YouTube - Penn and Teller Bullshit S05E02 Walmart PART 1 of 4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-o1fj1rX7A)

That was one of the better episodes of Bullshit, imo. South park did a really great episode on Wal-Mart, as well.


RANDY Marsh
We're sorry, but it seems our Main Street
is dying and good people are losing
their jobs. We'd all like you... out
of South Park.

Walmart MANAGER
Well What? What, you think I want to
be here? I hate this place. But it...
won't let me leave.

KYLE
But you run the Wall*Mart.

Walmart MANAGER
Oh you're wrong! Wall*Mart... isn't
run by anybody! First it reels you in
with its bargains. Next thing you know
you, you're working at the Wall*Mart
because it has all the jobs. Then you're
sitting in a little office, trapped
on all sides.


RANDY
Yeah. This place has a power over us
we can't resist! We have to find a way
to put the South Park Wall*Mart out
of business once and for all!

MR. GARRISON
Let's burn it down!

CHEF
No no no! Let's freeze it!

STEPHEN
I think it's best we try to reason with
it.

KYLE
No! All we have to do is not shop at
Wall*Mart anymore! If you want it to
go away, all it takes is a little self-control
and personal responsibility.

:D

[YumYum]

Bet you progressives are using this as anti-Walmart propaganda.

What is the opposite of "progressive"? "Digressive"?

[oyarde]

Uh-huh. And at the grocery store where I've worked for the past five years, some prices have increased steadily.

Bet you progressives are using this as anti-Walmart propaganda.

I can actually do better at the grocery store.Meat is mostly what I buy there.The quality is much better, and if I plan what I cook around what is on sale that week , it is still cheaper.I like chicken and pork.One is always on sale.

[oyarde]

Uh-huh. And at the grocery store where I've worked for the past five years, some prices have increased steadily.

Bet you progressives are using this as anti-Walmart propaganda.

I think the grocery prices first started raising significantly when diesel fuel shot up drastically.Then they did not go back down.

[james1906]

Interesting because Walmart said they lowered their prices a few months ago once everyone realized their groceries cost more than those at a traditional grocery store.

I like shopping at my local independent. Cheap meat and produce, they have a generic brand that is affordable and good quality, no club card, no dumb gimmicks like those buy 5 any of the following items or those dumb in store coupons that never work, easy to get in and out of, employees who don't have to blindly follow some customer service spiel concocted in a corporate office 1000 miles away, and I'm keeping the money local.

[james1906]

This Penn and Teller episode about Walmart is really good. Everyone hates walmart, but I like walmart and so do Penn and Teller.


Do you like Walmart for the groceries? Because there's better options.

[BenIsForRon]

It's funny how so many people here hate communism, but love Walmart. If Walmart continues to grow, we'll be a communist country. Everyone will work at Walmart. Everyone will buy their food from Walmart. Everybody will recieve their health care from Walmart. Everybody will get their RFID implanted at walmart....

[fletcher]

I noticed that a 2 liter of coke was now $1.25 instead of 98 cents, which is about same as it is at the grocery store. It's still cheaper overall at Walmart. I recently saw a hilarious post on a liberal site (http://demopedia.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x8647525) about some liberal that wandered into a Walmart and couldn't believe how inexpensive everything was. They said the cooler they were going to buy for $60 at some other store was $25 at Walmart. Did they think everyone was shopping there because it is more expensive?

[noxagol]

I don't understand all the walmart hate honestly. I can understand not shopping there for produce and meat, some of it does suck pretty bad. I just don't get it.

[Danke]

It's funny how so many people here hate communism, but love Walmart. If Walmart continues to grow, we'll be a communist country. Everyone will work at Walmart. Everyone will buy their food from Walmart. Everybody will recieve their health care from Walmart. Everybody will get their RFID implanted at walmart....

True, but I can't resist the Blue Light specials!

[Rael]

I have a few problems with walmart:

Never enough cashiers open. The express line is up to 20 items??? 20 items is a lot of shit. They have self checkouts but half the time they arent working.

Car stereos in the auto section always set to some fucking rap station.

Lots of low rent, dirty people go there.

They seriously need Bubbles to fix their carts, most of em grind or rattle horribly, I like using the blue baskets instead but they never have enough. So I started using a walmart shopping bag, it limits how much I can spend and it's ever so much easier to get around the fat woman with 8 kids, than with a big rattling shopping cart.


However, I have found that generally, they also have the best prices and selection; I am usually able to get what I want there at a good price.

OTOH when I go to Target, sure the store is clean and no long lines, but their selection is so much more limited. Target NEVER has what I need and I always wind up having to go to WM anyway.

[WaltM]

True, but I can't resist the Blue Light specials!

what do u pay with?

plastic or promissory notes?

are you going to answer my questions?

[Kylie]

I have a few problems with walmart:

Never enough cashiers open. The express line is up to 20 items??? 20 items is a lot of shit. They have self checkouts but half the time they arent working.

Car stereos in the auto section always set to some fucking rap station.

Lots of low rent, dirty people go there.

They seriously need Bubbles to fix their carts, most of em grind or rattle horribly, I like using the blue baskets instead but they never have enough. So I started using a walmart shopping bag, it limits how much I can spend and it's ever so much easier to get around the fat woman with 8 kids, than with a big rattling shopping cart.


However, I have found that generally, they also have the best prices and selection; I am usually able to get what I want there at a good price.

OTOH when I go to Target, sure the store is clean and no long lines, but their selection is so much more limited. Target NEVER has what I need and I always wind up having to go to WM anyway.


That's pretty much where I am at.

They have everything that the others don't, so I do have a hard time not going there.

That, and it is fun to play walmart bingo while I'm there :p

[Flash]

http://www.walmartsubsidywatch.org/

Walmart Subsidy Watch

[Kylie]

http://www.walmartsubsidywatch.org/

Walmart Subsidy Watch

Ain't that some shit?


And this part:


Many Wal-Mart workers are ineligible for health coverage from their employer or choose not to purchase what is available, because it is too expensive or too limited in scope. These workers often turn to taxpayer-funded health programs such as Medicaid. Illinois is among those states that have not disclosed data on the employers with the most workers or their dependents enrolled in such programs.

For an estimate of how much Wal-Mart is costing the state of IL for taxpayer-funded healthcare, see http://www.wakeupwalmart.com/feature/healthcrisis/map.html#IL


1. If the .gov has your number, then they have your information. That maybe should be one of the rules? If you choose to do this, then you forfeit any other department of government knowing the same information? They make it look like the .gov has their shit together on all the TV shows, so why wouldn't they in real life?

2. Would this not now lead to eradicating some of those departments because less people can do the work if the information is exchanged?

3. Would this not make more people really understand what they're getting themselves into by dealing with the system in the first place?

Not to mention that if we can get Ron into office alot of these departments may be disbanded and their people unemployed. I think that would scare the living shit outta them.

[parocks]

I'm stocking up on Pepsi / Mt. Dew Throwback.
12 pack Walmart $3.98
12 pack Target $4.59
Both had both Pepsi and Mt. Dew Throwback 12 packs.
It did not appear that the Throwbacks were on sale at Walmart.

[Suzu]

I don't understand all the walmart hate honestly. I can understand not shopping there for produce and meat, some of it does suck pretty bad. I just don't get it.

How about because they sell so much cheap Chinese goods and in the process of making those cheap goods, many Chinese workers are severely abused, some are even killed (http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/johann-hari/johann-hari-and-now-for-some-good-news-2044578.html).

[Rael]

I noticed that a 2 liter of coke was now $1.25 instead of 98 cents, which is about same as it is at the grocery store. It's still cheaper overall at Walmart. I recently saw a hilarious post on a liberal site (http://demopedia.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x8647525) about some liberal that wandered into a Walmart and couldn't believe how inexpensive everything was. They said the cooler they were going to buy for $60 at some other store was $25 at Walmart. Did they think everyone was shopping there because it is more expensive?

Jesus. I looked at that thread and 3 people there have Ted Kennedy avatars.

[Rael]

How about because they sell so much cheap Chinese goods and in the process of making those cheap goods, many Chinese workers are severely abused, some are even killed (http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/johann-hari/johann-hari-and-now-for-some-good-news-2044578.html).

So why do they continue to work there?

[nobody's_hero]

How about because they sell so much cheap Chinese goods and in the process of making those cheap goods, many Chinese workers are severely abused, some are even killed (http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/johann-hari/johann-hari-and-now-for-some-good-news-2044578.html).

It's a phase every country has to go through on their way to prosperity (I'm not saying it's right, or pleasant, in any way). But every strong nation today has its history of sweat-shops. We're more prosperous today because our fore-fathers/mothers made certain sacrifices for the future (meaning, 'us').

However, I use the phrase 'more prosperous' hesitantly (especially since we're drowning in debt). We can see what the price of taking short-cuts to prosperity is. There is no instantaneous wealth, and there is no avoiding the need for certain sacrifices. If the Federal Reserve doesn't stop meddling in the economy, we'll drop back into that 'sweat-shop' phase.

[BenIsForRon]

So why do they continue to work there?

Because they don't have a choice. Their grandparents farmland was seized by the government at the request of the corporations. Now, since the are living in slums of the city, they either starve or work in sweatshops.

I wish people here would stop pretending like our super cheap goods from China are the result of a free market. They're not.

[erowe1]

Because they don't have a choice. Their grandparents farmland was seized by the government at the request of the corporations. Now, since the are living in slums of the city, they either starve or work in sweatshops.


Then we should all be praising Walmart for saving those people from certain death.

And we should also encourage more American companies to set up factories there to compete with one another for those laborers, driving up the amount those companies pay to hire them in wages and in money spent on improved working conditions.

[erowe1]

It's a phase every country has to go through on their way to prosperity (I'm not saying it's right, or pleasant, in any way). But every strong nation today has its history of sweat-shops. We're more prosperous today because our fore-fathers/mothers made certain sacrifices for the future (meaning, 'us').


It may not be pleasant. But it's definitely right. The reason we don't have sweatshops here any more is not that we have progressed beyond them, it's because we have a nanny state that prohibits them, and the result is millions of unemployed people who would like to be able to offer their labor at less cost so that they could get jobs, but aren't allowed to do that. We need to bring back the sweatshops to America. When we do, it won't be a sign of retrograde, but a sign of further progress.

[BenIsForRon]

Then we should all be praising Walmart for saving those people from certain death.

And we should also encourage more American companies to set up factories there to compete with one another for those laborers, driving up the amount those companies pay to hire them in wages and in money spent on improved working conditions.

Walmart is empowering their oppressors with increased revenues. If we stopped trading with China, the people would seize power back from their government and hopefully build a freer society.

[ClayTrainor]

Walmart is empowering their oppressors with increased revenues. If we stopped trading with China, the people would seize power back from their government and hopefully build a freer society.

Kind of like how North Korea does it, when trade is cut off?

[ChaosControl]

It's funny how so many people here hate communism, but love Walmart. If Walmart continues to grow, we'll be a communist country. Everyone will work at Walmart. Everyone will buy their food from Walmart. Everybody will recieve their health care from Walmart. Everybody will get their RFID implanted at walmart....

I only hate state communism and I loathe wal-mart just as much. I don't really object to voluntary communism. The problem with anything is too much centralization and authoritarianism.

[erowe1]

Walmart is empowering their oppressors with increased revenues.

And by "oppressors" you mean the people who are providing them with jobs that are so important that, as you said yourself, they have no other choice but to work there. Right? If we care about their poverty, then we should empower more employers for them, not fewer, so that they have more choices.

[ChaosControl]

It may not be pleasant. But it's definitely right. The reason we don't have sweatshops here any more is not that we have progressed beyond them, it's because we have a nanny state that prohibits them, and the result is millions of unemployed people who would like to be able to offer their labor at less cost so that they could get jobs, but aren't allowed to do that. We need to bring back the sweatshops to America. When we do, it won't be a sign of retrograde, but a sign of further progress.

That is a scary point of view.

[teacherone]

That is a scary point of view.

millions of unemployed is scarier, this country was built through hard labor and hard conditions.

life ain't easy.

[BenIsForRon]

Kind of like how North Korea does it, when trade is cut off?

Or, it could spur the people to take over the government and carry out land reform.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land_reform

Not necessarily stopping trade, but reducing trade, is the only way to weaken the power of the corporatists in China.


And by "oppressors" you mean the people who are providing them with jobs that are so important that, as you said yourself, they have no other choice but to work there. Right? If we care about their poverty, then we should empower more employers for them, not fewer, so that they have more choices.

The oppressors are in government and corporations. The government seizes property, then grants deeds to corporations. They are working in tandem to keep an impoverished working class in the society.

And how are wages supposed to increase when the corporations go to the country precisely due to those low wages? The choices will cease to increase when they demand higher wages. Which is why the Chinese people need to seize control over their government now and control their own destiny. They need to build a strong domestic economy, outside of the corporatist forces.

[erowe1]

..

[erowe1]

And how are wages supposed to increase when the corporations go to the country precisely due to those low wages?
Companies will continue to have incentive to hire them as long as they make profit from their labor. One of two things is true. Either they currently already pay them the most they can while still making a profit, which seems to be the very opposite of what you think the problem is; or they are making big profits and could afford to pay those workers more. If the latter, then a competitor could come in and offer to pay those laborers more, and the companies would have to compete for that labor until wages rise to the maximum amount that still allows them to be profitable. Either there's plenty of room for companies to pay them more, while still taking advantage of their cheap labor, or they can't afford to pay them any more than they already do. It can't be both.


The choices will cease to increase when they demand higher wages.

They can't just demand higher wages if their only alternative is to starve. They can only do that if there are other factories they could work for. But that would require companies to do the opposite of what you think they should, which is to set up more factories there to take advantage of the cheap labor.



Which is why the Chinese people need to seize control over their government now and control their own destiny. They need to build a strong domestic economy, outside of the corporatist forces.
I'm not sure what kind of specific scenario you have in mind, whether a violent revolution of some kind or something else. But whatever you think it is that they should do, your plan still has the same problem that removing the sweatshops makes them worse off, not better off. You said above that without those sweatshops they would rise up. That suggests that the reason they don't already do whatever that involves is because they consider doing that a worse fate than working at sweatshops, which forces us back into concluding that Walmart and others are doing something good for them, not bad.

[ClayTrainor]

Or, it could spur the people to take over the government and carry out land reform.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land_reform

Ask yourself this... Has the Cuba embargo encouraged any positive land reform for the Cuban people?



Not necessarily stopping trade, but reducing trade, is the only way to weaken the power of the corporatists in China.



Do you support stopping trade or reducing it? If reducing it, in what way and by how much? What do you think should happen to people who disagree with you? If someone continues to peacefully trade with the Chinese in ways that you don't approve of, what should be done with them?

If you support stopping trade with China, do you argue that the embargo's on Communist Cuba are good as well?

[MelissaWV]

Those poor slaves in China. I will continue to fight from them via my computer, which was obviously not made with slave labor at any point along the line.

* * *

WalMart is cheaper for groceries in some areas of the country, and I've yet to see a local store selling locally-made plastic bins for garage storage. Perhaps this year will see locally-made Christmas lights vendors spring up around here. Likely not. Just like hating Microsoft, hating WalMart is the "in" thing to do. The fact you view a product/store as "inferior" does not make it universally so, and doesn't mean the product/store is without its niche. There are some things you can't buy elsewhere, and they're offered at the big box stores. You can get along without them, sure, or you can go and buy them and that's your choice.

I've seen WalMarts that did quash all competition, and I've seen WalMarts spring up where there was nothing. Around those stores, you often see other stores follow, and of course restaurants. You see jobs, and not just at the WalMart itself, spring up in the area. It's not a one-size-fits-all scenario. There are, believe it or not, many things WalMart does not and will not offer which you have to go to other stores for.

[mediahasyou]

Walmart does not pay slave wages because people can choose to work there.

However, Walmart workers are slaves to the government through Medicare/Medicaid and social security taxes.

If Walmart workers did not lose hundreds of dollars in their paychecks to these scams, the workers would be able to live healthier lifestyles with more wealth, which reduces the need for Medicare/Medicaid. In addition, Walmart workers would be able to invest their money to achieve a better retirement than social security could ever offer.

[HOLLYWOOD]

[/URL][URL]http://www.walmartsubsidywatch.org/ (http://www.walmartsubsidywatch.org/)

Walmart Subsidy Watch Isn't this just great... :rolleyes:

The politicians use the people's money to subsidize Mega-Corporations to move or stay in their districts/states. Wal*Mart has put small and medium size competitors out of business, while lobbying the whores in government to steal from the very people to subsidize their monopolies.

This is exactly like the Auto Industry that states have given $100's of Millions, if not Billions in Tax Breaks or Credits to move to their geo-locations. This causes the imbalances across the entire sector(s) free markets. The Big 3 can look at Alabama, South Carolina, Tennessee, etc in anti-trust for giving $ Billions in Taxpayer monies for new auto industry manufacturing to move and gives unfair/biased advantages in existing markets.

Then when it blows up and government steps in once again (courtesy of lobbying and political whores) to bailout the failed side... and it goes back and forth.

AND... We The Taxpayers get to pay for it, stuck with the bills/charges of both sides.

PS: Wal*Marts Food/Perishables are some of the most expensive prices across the country.

[BenIsForRon]

Either there's plenty of room for companies to pay them more, while still taking advantage of their cheap labor, or they can't afford to pay them any more than they already do. It can't be both.

My point is that there is a point where corporations will choose to go elsewhere for competitive labor prices. So the elites in government and corporations try to keep wages at a certain level to keep that foreign investment coming in. If you look at the figures, you see that the number of super rich in the country has greatly increased. This means that much of the profit doesn't go to the workers. Only to government and corporations.

This means that the ability of the Chinese people to increase their standard of living is limited compared to freer societies, like South Korea.


They can't just demand higher wages if their only alternative is to starve. They can only do that if there are other factories they could work for. But that would require companies to do the opposite of what you think they should, which is to set up more factories there to take advantage of the cheap labor.

I'm not sure what kind of specific scenario you have in mind, whether a violent revolution of some kind or something else. But whatever you think it is that they should do, your plan still has the same problem that removing the sweatshops makes them worse off, not better off. You said above that without those sweatshops they would rise up. That suggests that the reason they don't already do whatever that involves is because they consider doing that a worse fate than working at sweatshops, which forces us back into concluding that Walmart and others are doing something good for them, not bad.

The Chinese people can seize control of their government and get rid of the policies that make their economy strictly export based. They could have a more balanced approach that decreases taxes for poor and middle class, increase taxes for foreign property owners, and deregulates their heavily regulated agricultural system.

This would allow for them to be able to afford their own products, as well as allow farmers in the countryside to have more autonomy and create a better living for themselves.


Ask yourself this... Has the Cuba embargo encouraged any positive land reform for the Cuban people?

I'm not talking about a universal rule here, because there is no universal way it works with this kind of thing. You can only look at it case by case. All I know is that things are way better in Cuba after their main trading partner, the Soviet Union, collapsed. This is because they developed a domestic, (semi-)free market economy afterward, which included land-reform. I don't think the American embargo had much of an effect at all on that whole situation.


Do you support stopping trade or reducing it? If reducing it, in what way and by how much? What do you think should happen to people who disagree with you? If someone continues to peacefully trade with the Chinese in ways that you don't approve of, what should be done with them?


As of right now, optimally, I wish people would stop buying so many Chinese produced goods, unless they see that the workers are treated with dignity.

Otherwise, I would support some sort of tariff system that encourages more diversity in trade, so that manufacturers could still be competitive using workers from countries with more basic human rights.

What do I think should happen people who disagree with me? Off with their heads of course!

[erowe1]

My point is that there is a point where corporations will choose to go elsewhere for competitive labor prices.
That would be equally good of those corporations, since those other places need more sweatshops as well. We should try to increase the number of sweatshops in all nations, not just China, thus bringing up wages of the poor worldwide.



If you look at the figures, you see that the number of super rich in the country has greatly increased.
That fact by itself doesn't indicate much. But generally speaking, I'd say it's the mark of a growing economy, and is a good thing for the Chinese, rich and poor alike (at least economically speaking).


This means that much of the profit doesn't go to the workers.
Isn't it automatically the case that none of the profit at all goes to the workers, or else it wouldn't be profit? If there were more sweatshops, wages would go up and profits would go down.



This means that the ability of the Chinese people to increase their standard of living is limited compared to freer societies, like South Korea.
Agreed.




The Chinese people can seize control of their government and get rid of the policies that make their economy strictly export based. They could have a more balanced approach that decreases taxes for poor and middle class, increase taxes for foreign property owners, and deregulates their heavily regulated agricultural system

But is that what they think is best for them, or is it what you think is best for them? If it's what they think is best for them, then why don't they just do that now? If the reason they don't do it now is because they prefer working in sweatshops to doing that, such that you think we should remove the sweatshops to make their lives so miserable that they resort to "seizing control of their government," in a way that involves them doing things that are even less desirable than working in sweatshops, then I fail to see how it would be good of Walmart to stop buying things made in their sweatshops to put them in that position (unless you mean to say that you know what's good for them better than they do, which is reasoning I tend to try to avoid).

[angelatc]

How about because they sell so much cheap Chinese goods and in the process of making those cheap goods, many Chinese workers are severely abused, some are even killed (http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/johann-hari/johann-hari-and-now-for-some-good-news-2044578.html).

Wal-Mart has the most aggressive audit team in retail. They are the only retailer that demands (not requests) compliance to their labor standards from their Chinese suppliers.

http://walmartstores.com/pressroom/news/8696.aspx

[DamianTV]

wal-mart is the devil.

+1776

[Noob]

The Walmart here sucks. It takes months for them to get new shipments in for some things I need to get that the other shops I go to dont have. Their photo lab is freaking joke. It can take weeks for the film to get done, and they are very rude.

[Rael]

I am sick of hearing that walmart "puts smaller stores out of business". CONSUMERS have put these places out of business because they find walmart a better option. The smaller stores deserve to go out of business if they cannot provide a product consumers want.

[YumYum]

I am sick of hearing that walmart "puts smaller stores out of business". CONSUMERS have put these places out of business because they find walmart a better option. The smaller stores deserve to go out of business if they cannot provide a product consumers want.

But Walmart sends electromagnetic radio waves through people's heads when they go into the store. That ain't a Free Market.

[Danke]

But Walmart sends electromagnetic radio waves through people's heads when they go into the store. That ain't a Free Market.

Yes they do: Lost Leader (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loss_leader).

[YumYum]

Yes they do: Lost Leader (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loss_leader).

You're right. Every time I come out of Walmart I have a terrible headache because of those high frequency lost leaders.

[Dr.3D]

Last time I went into a Walmart store, it looked like it had been revenged as a store would be just before a hurricane. Many of the shelves were bare and what was left on some was all turned around and lying on it's sides. Of course that was the grocery part of the store and perhaps people are trying to make ends meet by shopping there and buying out all of the merchandise. The shelf that was the most empty was the Ramen Noodles. LOL

[Minuteman2012]

Kind of like how North Korea does it, when trade is cut off?

I was going to say that, or Cuba. The fact is, since we opened trade with China, their middle class has grown and their population has become more westernized.
http://www.wikinvest.com/concept/Rise_of_China's_Middle_Class

[oyarde]

Last time I went into a Walmart store, it looked like it had been revenged as a store would be just before a hurricane. Many of the shelves were bare and what was left on some was all turned around and lying on it's sides. Of course that was the grocery part of the store and perhaps people are trying to make ends meet by shopping there and buying out all of the merchandise. The shelf that was the most empty was the Ramen Noodles. LOL

Ramen noodles are surely big sellers these days.Probably need to look into some stock for the companies that mnfg those.

[thehunter]

I switched all of my grocery shopping to Wal-Mart about a year ago as a craze developed last summer here in Canada over global warming where the other grocery chains started pocketing an extra $0.05/bag in order to "save the environment". I've found Wal-Mart cheaper, cleaner and having a better selection and even with a modest price increase, it's still worth while for me to shop there versus Gaia Groceries.

[forsmant]

Wal mart food is shit. If you shop at Wal mart you are voting for monoculture and industrial food over local production and small business. But their prices are fugging cheap. You get what you pay for though. Rubber meat and disposable shit.

[thehunter]

Wal mart food is shit. If you shop at Wal mart you are voting for monoculture and industrial food over local production and small business. But their prices are fugging cheap. You get what you pay for though. Rubber meat and disposable shit.

I find it no different than the other manufactured food at other stores. I'm also skeptical as to how bad our average food really is (versus organic food, for example) as there have been many complaints about just how authentic those small producers' crops are and how our food supply could be killing us when it was developed over 120 years ago.

[forsmant]

what are you talking about? You don't get non manufactured food at the supermarket. All of our average food is overly sweetened and sprayed obnoxiously with chemicals to combat co evolution. Fresh food from the garden is better for you because it doesn't have nearly the amount of residual pesticide. The farmers chickens are cleaner that the 20k+ slaughtered in the CAFO. Monoculture is anti thesis to capitalism. It can only continue because it has government chase of legitimate competition with bureaucratic rage and red tape.

[Live_Free_Or_Die]

Yes they do: Lost Leader (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loss_leader).

LOL, good one.

[thehunter]

what are you talking about? You don't get non manufactured food at the supermarket. All of our average food is overly sweetened and sprayed obnoxiously with chemicals to combat co evolution. Fresh food from the garden is better for you because it doesn't have nearly the amount of residual pesticide. The farmers chickens are cleaner that the 20k+ slaughtered in the CAFO. Monoculture is anti thesis to capitalism. It can only continue because it has government chase of legitimate competition with bureaucratic rage and red tape.

Don't get me wrong, I'd end the farm subsidies/regulations yesterday, but if we eliminated the government interference, you would find that those chemicals would still be on the food sold in the store; the size of our population demands that mass-produced food is part of our system as it is far cheaper and more efficient. Re-read what I'm saying though -- I'm not claiming that you can get non-manufactured food at the supermarket; even the organic stuff is manufactured. I'm just saying that having such food isn't the determent that people say it is as the chemicals we're using have been in use for about five generations now.

[forsmant]

and you dont notice that we are all fat and lazy?

I don't care if you spray chemicals on the food, but this efficiency is at the cost of quality. And every time we shop at a industrial retailer, we cast our vote in favor of corpratism that the government has created for us.

[MozoVote]

I think the rattle-y carts are deliberate. Seems like every cart has a flat spot on the right rear wheel. They probably want people to slow down (less liability of carts tipping) or perhaps the thinking, is that if people move slower they'll see more merchandise to buy.

I just lift my cart slightly so that I can move briskly and get the ordeal over with. I generally agree about the service and other customers. The self checkouts are a real gamble, seems like it's always my luck that all 4 of them are being used by a combination of bufuddled newcomers or people with items that need a manual "price check"

[thehunter]

and you dont notice that we are all fat and lazy?

I don't care if you spray chemicals on the food, but this efficiency is at the cost of quality. And every time we shop at a industrial retailer, we cast our vote in favor of corpratism that the government has created for us.

I would see that as being more an issue with our inactivity than with what we're eating; people have only been getting fat/lazy as new inventions that encourage them to be less active have become mainstream.

[thehunter]

I think the rattle-y carts are deliberate. Seems like every cart has a flat spot on the right rear wheel. They probably want people to slow down (less liability of carts tipping) or perhaps the thinking, is that if people move slower they'll see more merchandise to buy.

I just lift my cart slightly so that I can move briskly and get the ordeal over with. I generally agree about the service and other customers. The self checkouts are a real gamble, seems like it's always my luck that all 4 of them are being used by a combination of bufuddled newcomers or people with items that need a manual "price check"

A few other places around me have the self-check outs and it's nice -- I don't get the annoying "would you like to donate a dollar to help cure teenage apathy" questions and find that the trip through the check-out is much quicker.

[BenIsForRon]

If it's what they think is best for them, then why don't they just do that now? .

For the same reason Americans aren't changing anything. Fear, apathy, and ignorance.

If you've every lived in China, there is definitely the element of fear. You are never to talk about any problems you have with the government. If you have a poster of Tienanmen Square, you get thrown in prison. If you talk about Taiwan in a positive light, you get thrown in prison.

The Chinese people also see a lot of urban development, and believe that the government is leading them down the right path. So the combination of a glimmer of hope for progress, and a very stifling government presence, prevents Chinese from organizing like they need to.

And you say sweatshops lead to prosperity? You don't see any difference between early industrial America and China? How about the Bill of Rights? In America, people could talk freely about their problems. They could unionize and demand better working conditions. They could demand better public infrastructure from their cities. All this is impossible in China.

[Austrian Econ Disciple]

I'm just curious when businesses advertise rises in prices.

[Jordan]

I'm just curious when businesses advertise rises in prices.


http://newcondoscharlotte.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/images/makers_mark.15380043_std.jpg
"It tastes expensive ... and is."

[Austrian Econ Disciple]

http://newcondoscharlotte.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/images/makers_mark.15380043_std.jpg
"It tastes expensive ... and is."

Perhaps I should have clarified -- non-investor / collectible items. I thought it was hilarious with the adjective, quiet, being so haphazardly thrown around as if to demonize Wal-Mart. Like they are the only business to not advertise rises in prices. :::laugh:::

[MelissaWV]

I think the rattle-y carts are deliberate. Seems like every cart has a flat spot on the right rear wheel. They probably want people to slow down (less liability of carts tipping) or perhaps the thinking, is that if people move slower they'll see more merchandise to buy.

I just lift my cart slightly so that I can move briskly and get the ordeal over with. I generally agree about the service and other customers. The self checkouts are a real gamble, seems like it's always my luck that all 4 of them are being used by a combination of bufuddled newcomers or people with items that need a manual "price check"

As someone who worked at a grocery store, the carts are no more deliberate than the morons you enounter.

The carts come in clean and delightful and not squeaking and with fast, amazing wheels. The combination of floor conditions inside (floors in older stores are coated by years' worth of wax and residues and other things, not to mention dust that swirls its way there all day) and out (those smooth wheels don't do so well on sidewalks and out in the parking lot) wear out the wheels rather quickly. The elements do their part, too, whether it's absurdly hot or cold or humid or dry or rainy or snowy conditions. The carts are taken out back to be washed, which necessitates a trip across the rough surfaces and being jammed together (something else which is done to carts dozens of times in a day).

The same carts are used over and over again, since the carts all the way at the front only make an appearance on really busy days. One shopping trip in a thousand, you might notice your cart is in pretty awesome shape. You probably won't, because it's just not that important, but it happens just the same. It feels like a racecar compared to the others. Carts also tend to make the same turns over and over.

Every store has a pattern they want you to use, and that most people wind up taking because it's logical to them. Locally, this means going through a dairy and deli aisle, then dry goods, then produce, then meat, then frozen, with a detour to prepared foods/deli/bakery areas as necessary. The same paths over and over mean the carts are making the same series of turns. It wears the wheels out in a pattern.

You also do not want to know how carts are treated by customers. On the best of days, the area where shopping carts are designed for your children to sit will see a dozen packages of raw meat. On the worst, a child has used the seat as a toilet or a nice safe place to vomit. Not every store does their best to clean that up with proper attention to disinfectants. Keep in mind that parents don't always let the workers know when something goes wrong. That cart with vomit or feces on it is sometimes shoved back into the shuffle at the front, at which point no one will know about it until they see it or a customer complains.

Self-check is a boon to those of us who really know how to use the machines. I know my PLU's and I know how to bag efficiently. I know how to scan quickly. There are a lot of people who don't know how to do any of those things, and will clog things up for the rest of us. Some of them confirm your suspicions, since Secret Shoppers are often told to go through self-check to test response times to requests for help. Self-check is also tested often for alcohol purchases, since the temptation would be to just authorize the purchase without checking ID.

The kicker is that self-check also rips people off. There is no tare button on self-check machines locally. The register scales are abused by people clumsily striking them with passing items, which throws them off (usually making them overcharge). Good cashiers know what's on sale, and will notice if something looks really "off" when they're scanning; you might not remember. Price tags for items from the deli or bakery or meat department might be utterly wrong, but if you're in a hurry and you're just scanning, who cares, right?

Ah, grocery stores :p The beginning of my misanthropy.

[erowe1]

If you've every lived in China, there is definitely the element of fear.

I get that. But that fear of the consequences of "seizing control of their government," as you say, means that they have decided that, as bad as things are for them now, those consequences would be worse. You may disagree with them, but it's their opinion that matters, not yours or mine.

So if your argument is that eliminating the sweatshops would make them so desperate that they would do that thing which they consider worse than the status quo, then it still supports my point that (according to their own evaluation of their circumstances), the sweatshops are a good, not bad, thing.

[crazyfacedjenkins]

Or, it could spur the people to take over the government and carry out land reform.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land_reform

Not necessarily stopping trade, but reducing trade, is the only way to weaken the power of the corporatists in China.



The oppressors are in government and corporations. The government seizes property, then grants deeds to corporations. They are working in tandem to keep an impoverished working class in the society.

And how are wages supposed to increase when the corporations go to the country precisely due to those low wages? The choices will cease to increase when they demand higher wages. Which is why the Chinese people need to seize control over their government now and control their own destiny. They need to build a strong domestic economy, outside of the corporatist forces.

Eh, Why land reform? We're not living in the 18th century, who the hell wants to be a farmer? That's what tractors and large automated agriculture equipment is for. It's much better for the people to have skills that require a higher degree of knowledge, land reforms just encourage a backwards way of life.

[noxagol]

I think the rattle-y carts are deliberate. Seems like every cart has a flat spot on the right rear wheel. They probably want people to slow down (less liability of carts tipping) or perhaps the thinking, is that if people move slower they'll see more merchandise to buy.

I just lift my cart slightly so that I can move briskly and get the ordeal over with. I generally agree about the service and other customers. The self checkouts are a real gamble, seems like it's always my luck that all 4 of them are being used by a combination of bufuddled newcomers or people with items that need a manual "price check"

I work at walmart, as a cart pusher. The wheels are perfect when the carts first show up. Its mostly because of us turning them. It drags the wheels on the asphalt/ concrete which grinds a flat spot in them. The new style carts avoid this though if the pusher picks up the wheels on the cart he is pushing and all the lifters are in place. I do, most don't.

[Krugerrand]

I work at walmart, as a cart pusher. The wheels are perfect when the carts first show up. Its mostly because of us turning them. It drags the wheels on the asphalt/ concrete which grinds a flat spot in them. The new style carts avoid this though if the pusher picks up the wheels on the cart he is pushing and all the lifters are in place. I do, most don't.

One way or another ... Ron Paul Forums always has the inside scoop.

[WhiteHaven]

I think the only thing I purchased there this year was some weed killer and a tent ? Do alot of you use these stores?


We do a lot of our grocery shopping there because a lot of their stuff is cheaper than the regular grocery stores for instance their soda is cheaper,can meals like chef boy r dee my kids love that stuff its cheaper at wal mart. Plus they got a bigger selection and my wal mart has a marked down rack I love! Oh and the milk there is like a 1.50$ cheaper than the regular grocery store.We get Diapers at Sams club lasts a lot longer but groceries and other small things we get at wal mart I prefer a target or k mart but closest one is 35 miles away.

[Jordan]

I work at walmart, as a cart pusher. The wheels are perfect when the carts first show up. Its mostly because of us turning them. It drags the wheels on the asphalt/ concrete which grinds a flat spot in them. The new style carts avoid this though if the pusher picks up the wheels on the cart he is pushing and all the lifters are in place. I do, most don't.

Walmart needs to adopt Aldi's style. $.25 deposit for a cart, and you only get it back if you return it.

[WhiteHaven]

Walmart needs to adopt Aldi's style. $.25 deposit for a cart, and you only get it back if you return it.


Good idea on one hand bad idea on the other. We don't need MORE unemployed people because wal mart decided to do this. Wal Mart is a cheap ass when it comes to updating things. I had back surgery last year because of my weight/scar tissue I can't walk around the store so I use the carts EVERY single time I go in there I have to take a cart back because it dies on me. They won't upgrade to the newer kind of carts that the grocery store down the road has and its only a chain in 3 states. Another thing that pisses me off my kids get WIC and since we like Wal Marts low prices we go there to get wic they are so cheap and lazy they won't even put their wic stickers up to show you what they allow on WIC even though the WIC office offers to give them the stickers. Just a week ago I finally saw after 3 years the first wic stickers at wal mart.

[dannno]

I work at walmart, as a cart pusher. The wheels are perfect when the carts first show up. Its mostly because of us turning them. It drags the wheels on the asphalt/ concrete which grinds a flat spot in them. The new style carts avoid this though if the pusher picks up the wheels on the cart he is pushing and all the lifters are in place. I do, most don't.

Bubbles from the Trailer Park Boys (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8961822616648183260)

YouTube - Bubbles: Shopping Cart Venture - Part 2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ZX91SyQVsA)

[The Dude]

I try really hard not to shop at Wal Mart. The place is dirty, unorganized, the employees are mindless zombies. When you go to Walmart do you leave feeling happy and wanting to go back? It's like when I go into Walmart the entire world goes gray. It's just a depressing place to shop. The employees are pissed off and the customers look depressed. The selection is terrible and the products for the most part are cheaply made garbage.

Shopping at Target or a place like Sam's Club or BJ's is a completely different experience.

[ninepointfive]

Count the crying babies at any super walmart on a weekend. used to be a guaranteed 6 babies crying in there every time. Now if that isn't just like having a canary in a coalmine. They can sense it too.


funny vids dannno

[BenIsForRon]

I get that. But that fear of the consequences of "seizing control of their government," as you say, means that they have decided that, as bad as things are for them now, those consequences would be worse. You may disagree with them, but it's their opinion that matters, not yours or mine.

So if your argument is that eliminating the sweatshops would make them so desperate that they would do that thing which they consider worse than the status quo, then it still supports my point that (according to their own evaluation of their circumstances), the sweatshops are a good, not bad, thing.

The American Revolution happened 1776, not 1760. Things take time. Many Chinese are drinking the kool-aid the government is giving them right now. However, once the unsustainable level of growth they've had slows down, things will change.

So just because a revolution hasn't occurred yet, doesn't mean the Chinese will wish to stick with this shitty state of affairs forever.

[George Hemminger]

YouTube - The Future of Overall Food - Price Inflation is Inevitable: (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pE2Mp5KjblI)

[erowe1]

The American Revolution happened 1776, not 1760. Things take time. Many Chinese are drinking the kool-aid the government is giving them right now. However, once the unsustainable level of growth they've had slows down, things will change.

So just because a revolution hasn't occurred yet, doesn't mean the Chinese will wish to stick with this shitty state of affairs forever.

This is getting pretty far afield of your initial point that sweatshops are bad. Removing the sweatshops would leave the people worse off (by their own evaluation as proven by their actions of working there) than they are now. There's no getting past that conclusion.

It's simply invalid to argue that removing the sweatshops would be better for them because it would lead to a revolution that they don't currently want. Even it that were a true prediction (which none of us can know), it would still be a non sequitur, unless we accept the premise that you know what's good for them better than they do.

[BenIsForRon]

This is getting pretty far afield of your initial point that sweatshops are bad. Removing the sweatshops would leave the people worse off (by their own evaluation as proven by their actions of working there) than they are now. There's no getting past that conclusion.

It's simply invalid to argue that removing the sweatshops would be better for them because it would lead to a revolution that they don't currently want. Even it that were a true prediction (which none of us can know), it would still be a non sequitur, unless we accept the premise that you know what's good for them better than they do.

The sweatshops aren't just bad in and of themselves, they are a moral hazard. Any company that looks for oppressive regimes to do business with will have the competitive advantage. That fact needs to change. Either through consumer initiative or even government initiative.

[forsmant]

I would see that as being more an issue with our inactivity than with what we're eating; people have only been getting fat/lazy as new inventions that encourage them to be less active have become mainstream.

Europeans share many of the same technologies as we do yet they are not experiencing obesity at the same rates as we are. The french continue to eat food that any nutritionist in america would deem unfit and unhealthy. Wal Mart, McDonalds and the like are the enemies to our freedom. They push to make the "little" guys play by the same rules even thought they are not playing the same game. THats like forcing me and you to play a game of football in a packed NFL stadium on Sunday night. Is that really fair or is it predatory? If there are no little guys their is no freedom or innovation.

[MozoVote]

Charlotte Wal*Marts are 24 hour stores. I make sure to go late at night, or first thing in the morning, to avoid the crying babies and plodding slow pokes.

10PM on Sunday works well enough. Parents don't take too many kids with them near bedtime, just before the school week begins. Uh, I mean "shcool" week. :p

[james1906]

I work at walmart, as a cart pusher.

Ok, I know you're lying, because shopping carts are never retrieved from a Walmart parking lot.

[noxagol]

Ok, I know you're lying, because shopping carts are never retrieved from a Walmart parking lot.

Haha, no I do, and I do gather them. I do my job well. Most don't, but if you come to my store when I'm working and I'm not just getting there or coming back from lunch, you will be treated to at least one side of parking lot that is pretty free of shopping carts.

[Rael]

Bubbles from the Trailer Park Boys (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8961822616648183260)

YouTube - Bubbles: Shopping Cart Venture - Part 2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ZX91SyQVsA)

gotta love tpb