Claim: The CIA created Al Qaeda

[FrankRep]

Claim: The CIA created Al Qaeda


That is not accurate. This is what happened:




Ghost Wars: How Reagan Armed the Mujahideen in Afghanistan

DemocracyNow.org (http://www.DemocracyNow.org/)
June 10, 2004


During Reagan’s 8 years in power, the CIA secretly sent billions of dollars of military aid to the Mujahideen (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mujahideen) in Afghanistan in a US-supported jihad against the Soviet Union. We take a look at America’s role in Afghanistan that led to the rise of Osama bin Laden’s al Qaeda with Pulitzer prize-winning journalist Steve Coll, author of Ghost Wars: The Secret History of the CIA, Afghanistan, and Bin Laden, from the Soviet Invasion to September 10, 2001.
...

During most of the 1980’s, the CIA secretly sent billions of dollars of military aid to Afghanistan to support the mujahedeen–or holy warriors–against the Soviet Union, which had invaded in 1979.

The U.S.-supported jihad succeeded in driving out the Soviets but the Afghan factions allied to the US gave rise to the oppressive Taliban and Osama bin Laden’s al-Qaeda.




The New American (http://www.thenewamerican.com/)
07 May 2009


Recall that the origins of al Qaeda go back even further — to the fight by Afghan mujahideen (freedom fighters) against their Soviet occupiers. Through a program called Operation Cyclone, the CIA channeled millions of dollars to the mujahideen from 1979 to 1989. Given the aggressive nature of the Soviet communists (the self-admitted enemies of the United States), and the worthiness of the cause of the Afghan freedom fighters to throw off their oppressors, the operation may have been deemed worthy by many. But here is where the advice prescribed by George Washington in his Farewell Address should have been heeded: “The great rule of conduct for us in regard to foreign nations is, in extending our commercial relations, to have with them as little political connection as possible.”



The Mujahideen morphed into al Qaeda:



InfoPlease.com (http://www.InfoPlease.com/)

The Mujahideen

Al-Qaeda has its origins in the uprising against the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan. Thousands of volunteers from around the Middle East came to Afghanistan as mujahideen, warriors fighting to defend fellow Muslims. In the mid-1980s, Osama bin Laden became the prime financier for an organization that recruited Muslims from mosques around the world. These "Afghan Arab" mujahideen, which numbered in the thousands, were crucial in defeating Soviet forces.

After the Soviets withdrew from Afghanistan, bin Laden returned to his native Saudi Arabia. He founded an organization to help veterans of the Afghan war, many of whom went on to fight elsewhere (including Bosnia) and comprise the basis of al-Qaeda.

Bin Laden also studied with radical Islamic thinkers and may have already been organizing al-Qaeda when Iraq invaded Kuwait in 1990. Bin Laden was outraged when the government allowed U.S. troops to be stationed in Saudi Arabia, the birthplace of Islam. In 1991 he was expelled from Saudi Arabia for anti-government activities.

The Rise of al-Qaeda

After his expulsion from Saudi Arabia, bin Laden established headquarters for al-Qaeda in Khartoum, Sudan. The first actions of al-Qaeda against American interests were attacks on U.S. servicemen in Somalia. A string of terrorist actions suspected to have been orchestrated by al-Qaeda followed (see sidebar), and in August 1996 bin Laden issued a "Declaration of War" against the U.S.

Al-Qaeda also worked to forge alliances with other radical groups. In February 1998, bin Laden announced an alliance of terrorist organizations—the "International Islamic Front for Jihad Against the Jews and Crusaders"—that included the Egyptian al-Gama'at al-Islamiyya, the Egyptian Islamic Jihad, the Harakat ul-Ansar, and other groups.

In 1994 Sudan—under pressure from Saudi Arabia and the U.S.—expelled bin Laden, who moved his base of operations to Afghanistan. Bin Laden was the "guest" of the Taliban until the U.S. drove them from power in Nov. 2001. Al-Qaeda set up terrorist training camps in the war-torn nation, as it had in Sudan.


Full Story:
http://www.infoplease.com/spot/al-qaeda-terrorism.html#axzz0wpg5xWtr

[00_Pete]

Anyone doubts? Most of the war material the Vietcong and NVA used were made by american-made and american-upgraded factories using american-made technical know-how. From the simple ak-47 to the high-tech SA2 missile...all made possible by Uncle Sam.

Same goes for Nazi Germany...

Who floods Israel with money and beneficial trade? And who floods most of Israel enemies with money and beneficial trade?

[johngr]

Anyone doubts? Most of the war material the Vietcong and NVA used were made by american-made and american-upgraded factories using american-made technical know-how. From the simple ak-47 to the high-tech SA2 missile...all made possible by Uncle Sam.

Same goes for Nazi Germany...

Who floods Israel with money and beneficial trade? And who floods most of Israel enemies with money and beneficial trade?

Don't forget the lend lease program to the Soviets. Best enemies money can buy.

[dannno]

War.. banks win, people lose.

[michaelwise]

I hope the Russians are still holding a grudge.

[ibaghdadi]

The USA and Bin Laden had an intersection of interests at some point, and they helped each other out for a while to defeat a common enemy.

This is VERY different from claims that the CIA created Al-Qaeda.

The US and the USSR were on the same side vs. Nazi Germany during WWII - doesn't mean that the US "created" the USSR...

[w2992]

http://www.archive.org/details/TheSovietStory

[FrankRep]

Exposing Terrorism: Inside the Terror Triangle

Exposing Terrorism: Inside the Terror Triangle on Vimeo (http://www.vimeo.com/6567370)



JBS CEO Art Thompson reveals there is more to the war on terror than meets the eye. He discusses terrorism, how it has been used in the past, reveals the state sponsors and others in the supporting network and demonstrates how Islam is being used to mask the real culprits. (2009, 17 min., DVD)

[jmdrake]

Weak Frank. Real weak. Everyone with half a brain knows that the CIA funded what would become Al Qaeda through the Pakistani ISI and the CIA never stopped funding the Pakistani ISI even after it became clear how Pakistan was spending the money! We know for a fact that the Pakistani ISI funded 9/11. And yet we still fund them. Read Peter Bergen's book Holy War Inc if you want to get the full story. Or you can listen to the head of the JBS try to shift all of the blame to the KGB as if the KGB wanted to destroy the Soviet Union.

[LibertyVox]

Weak Frank. Real weak. Everyone with half a brain knows that the CIA funded what would become Al Qaeda through the Pakistani ISI and the CIA never stopped funding the Pakistani ISI even after it became clear how Pakistan was spending the money! We know for a fact that the Pakistani ISI funded 9/11. And yet we still fund them. Read Peter Bergen's book Holy War Inc if you want to get the full story. Or you can listen to the head of the JBS try to shift all of the blame to the KGB as if the KGB wanted to destroy the Soviet Union.

People here live in a fantastic world.

[jmdrake]

Read this Frank. It's a senate report showing how during the Clinton Administration we worked with Al Qaeda in Kosovo. And what agency could pull off such a dastardly operation on behalf of the U.S.? The FSB? The Boy Scouts? Go ahead....you can say it....

I'm not posting the whole report because it is too large. But I've left in the smoking gun ties to Islamic terrorism and Al Qaeda. And don't give me any "the KLA is not Al Qaeda" nonsense. We all know that Al Qaeda is a franchise operation. The KLA is an Islamic terrorist organization with direct ties to Al Qaeda and direct ties to the U.S.

http://rpc.senate.gov/releases/1999/fr033199.htm

The Kosovo Liberation Army: Does Clinton Policy Support Group with Terror, Drug Ties?
From 'Terrorists' to 'Partners'

On March 24, 1999, NATO initiated air attacks on Yugoslavia (a federation of two republics, Serbia and Montenegro) in order to impose a peace agreement in the Serbian province of Kosovo, which has an ethnic Albanian majority. The Clinton Administration has not formally withdrawn its standing insistence that Belgrade sign the peace agreement, which would entail the deployment in Kosovo of some 28,000 NATO ground troops -- including 4,000 Americans -- to police the settlement. But in recent days the Clinton public line has shifted to a demand that Yugoslav President Slobodan Milosevic halt the offensive he has launched in Kosovo, which has led to a growing humanitarian crisis in the region, before there can be a stop to the bombing campaign.

One week into the bombing campaign, there is widespread discussion of options for further actions. One option includes forging a closer relationship between the United States and a controversial group, the Kosovo Liberation Army (KLA), a group which has been cited in unofficial reports for alleged ties to drug cartels and Islamic terrorist organizations. This paper will examine those allegations in the context of the currently unfolding air campaign.


.....


"Option Three: arming the separatist Kosovo Liberation Army to carry the war on the ground while NATO continues it from the air." This option, which would make NATO the overt air force of the KLA, would also dash any possibility of a solution that would not result in a change in Balkan borders, perhaps setting off a round of widespread regional instability. Clinton Administrations officials have begun to suggest that independence may now be justified in view of the Serb offensive. The KLA has been explicit in its determination to not only achieve an independent Kosovo but to "liberate" Albanian-inhabited areas of Montenegro (including the Montenegrin capital, Podgorica), Macedonia (including the Macedonian capital, Skopje), and parts of northern Greece; most of these areas were in fact annexed to Albania under Axis occupation during World War II. (For a visual representation of the areas claimed by the KLA, see the map at the website of the pro-KLA Albanian-American Civic League at www.aacl.com

Note that arming and training the KLA, as called for in Option Three, would highlight serious questions about the nature of the KLA and of the Clinton Administration's relationship with it.

The KLA: from 'Terrorists' to 'Partners'

The Kosovo Liberation Army "began on the radical fringe of Kosovar Albanian politics, originally made up of diehard Marxist-Leninists (who were bankrolled in the old days by the Stalinist dictatorship next door in Albania) as well as by descendants of the fascist militias raised by the Italians in World War II" ["Fog of War -- Coping With the Truth About Friend and Foe: Victims Not Quite Innocent," New York Times, 3/28/99]. The KLA made its military debut in February 1996 with the bombing of several camps housing Serbian refugees from wars in Croatia and Bosnia [Jane's Intelligence Review, 10/1/96]. The KLA (again according to the highly regarded Jane's,) "does not take into consideration the political or economic importance of its victims, nor does it seem at all capable of seriously hurting its enemy, the Serbian police and army. Instead, the group has attacked Serbian police and civilians arbitrarily at their weakest points. It has not come close to challenging the region's balance of military power" [Jane's, 10/1/96].

....
From its inception, the KLA has targeted not only Serbian security forces, who may be seen as legitimate targets for a guerrilla insurgency, but Serbian and Albanian civilians as well.



"Questioned by lawmakers today on whether he still considered the group a terrorist organization, Mr. Gelbard said that while it has committed 'terrorist acts,' it has 'not been classified legally by the U.S. Government as a terrorist organization.' " [New York Times, 3/13/98]
...
By early 1999, the Clinton Administration had completely staked the success of its Kosovo policy on either the acceptance by both sides of a pre-drafted peace agreement that would entail a NATO ground occupation of Kosovo, or, if the Albanians signed the agreement while Belgrade refused, bombing of the Serbs. By committing itself so tightly to those two alternatives, the Clinton Administration left itself with as little flexibility as it had offered the Albanians and the Serbs.

At that point for the Administration, cultivating the goodwill of the KLA -- as the most extreme element on the Albanian side, and the element which had the weapons capable of sinking any diplomatic initiative -- became an absolute imperative:

"In order to get the Albanians'... acceptance [of the peace plan], Ms. Albright offered incentives intended to show that Washington is a friend of Kosovo...Officers in the Kosovo Liberation Army would . . . be sent to the United States for training in transforming themselves from a guerrilla group into a police force or a political entity, much like the African National Congress did in South Africa." [New York Times, 2/24/99]
...

By the time the NATO airstrikes began, the Clinton Administration's partnership with the KLA was unambiguous:

....
Such an effusive embrace by top Clinton Administration officials of an organization that only a year ago one of its own top officials labeled as "terrorist" is, to say the least, a startling development.

Even more importantly, the new Clinton/KLA partnership may obscure troubling allegations about the KLA that the Clinton Administration has thus far neglected to address.

Charges of Drugs, Islamic Terror -- and a Note on Sources

No observer doubts that the large majority of fighters that have flocked to the KLA during the past year or so (since it began large-scale military operations) are ordinary Kosovo Albanians who desire what they see as the liberation of their homeland from foreign rule. But that fact -- which amounts to a claim of innocence by association -- does not fully explain the KLA's uncertain origins, political program, sources of funding, or political alliances.

Among the most troubling aspects of the Clinton Administration's effective alliance with the KLA are numerous reports from reputable unofficial sources -- including the highly respected Jane's publications -- that the KLA is closely involved with:

* The extensive Albanian crime network that extends throughout Europe and into North America, including allegations that a major portion of the KLA finances are derived from that network, mainly proceeds from drug trafficking; and

* Terrorist organizations motivated by the ideology of radical Islam, including assets of Iran and of the notorious Osama bin-Ladin -- who has vowed a global terrorist war against Americans and American interests.
.....

In short, the absence of official confirmation of the reports cited below can hardly be considered the last word in the matter. And given this Administration's record, one might treat with some degree of skepticism even a flat denial of KLA drug and terror ties -- which thus far has not been offered. As the Clinton Administration searches for new options in its Kosovo policy, these reports about KLA should not be lightly dismissed.

[LibertyVox]

I think it's time I say a few things on the ISI. I'll do it in the foreign policy section. It's sad that RPF sometimes sounds like Powells Security Council Iraq war presentation.

[Fredom101]

The CIA provided the FUNDING that eventually lead to forming Al Qaeda.

To me, this is like the Al Gore apologists argument, that Gore "never said he invented the internet!" Instead, he said, he CREATED it.

The CIA didn't create Al Qaeda. They funded groups that broke off and formed it. Huge difference?

[00_Pete]

The USA and Bin Laden had an intersection of interests at some point, and they helped each other out for a while to defeat a common enemy.

This is VERY different from claims that the CIA created Al-Qaeda.

The US and the USSR were on the same side vs. Nazi Germany during WWII - doesn't mean that the US "created" the USSR...

Not only the American, British and German Elite created the USSR, they even send troops to fend of the Japanese (and deter other adversaries) while the "bolshis" were doing their thing...

YouTube - Antony Sutton - Wall Street & Bolshevik Revolution Part 1.flv (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7GhPsJCXPqY)


Exposing Terrorism: Inside the Terror Triangle



JBS CEO Art Thompson reveals there is more to the war on terror than meets the eye. He discusses terrorism, how it has been used in the past, reveals the state sponsors and others in the supporting network and demonstrates how Islam is being used to mask the real culprits. (2009, 17 min., DVD)

I agree with JBS on most things but that anti-Russian/anti-Putin stuff i dont agree with it at all. Russia is Christianity last bastion and Putin is one of the greatest leaders in all Human history. JBS judgment is clouded by Cold War mentality, Russian leadership stands for everything JBS stands for, they have to go authoritarian because Western Elites leave them no choice.

The World´s largest producers of Islamic terrorism (Saudi Arabia) and their partnership with the Western economic Elites speaks volumes...its Russia that suffers from US/Western produced Islamic terrorism (Chechnya/Ingushetia/other islamic separatist movements) and not the other way around.

[00_Pete]

Read this Frank. It's a senate report showing how during the Clinton Administration we worked with Al Qaeda in Kosovo. And what agency could pull off such a dastardly operation on behalf of the U.S.? The FSB? The Boy Scouts? Go ahead....you can say it....



That is a good example. Those pack of gangsters/islamic terrorists were created and armed to the teeth by Clinton and the CIA. And they were the ones that started all that mess.

And every police agency in Europe knows that Kosovo is now Europe´s drug/weapon dealing headquarters.

[jmdrake]

The CIA provided the FUNDING that eventually lead to forming Al Qaeda.

To me, this is like the Al Gore apologists argument, that Gore "never said he invented the internet!" Instead, he said, he CREATED it.

The CIA didn't create Al Qaeda. They funded groups that broke off and formed it. Huge difference?

Wrong. The CIA continued to fund the Pakistani ISI after it was known what kind of organization had supposedly "broken off"*. And the CIA funded the KLA when it knew the KLA was working with Al Qaeda. Pull your head out of the sand on this one Frank.

*Note: Al Qaeda never actually "broke off". You really need to educate yourself and read Holy War Inc. Pakistan gave the money it got from the CIA to the most radical jihadists it could find. That's in part because Pakistan wanted a radical proxy army to help it in Khasmir.

Here's some more reading for you.

Pakistan pays Al Qaeda debt:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/4249525.stm

People who think that Al Qaeda magically "broke off" just don't know the history of Al Qaeda.

[pcosmar]

The CIA has been NOTHING but trouble since it's inception.

And this is one point I disagree with the JBS, Though I like them overall, their obsession with the obvious state communism (Russia/China) has often blinded them to the more subtle threats closer to home. Our own government (or those that control it).

Though I often applaud them for their educational efforts, I think they are sometimes blinded by nationalism.

[FrankRep]

Wrong. The CIA continued to fund the Pakistani ISI after it was known what kind of organization had supposedly "broken off"*.

This is not a secret Government Conspiracy. The U.S. Government was taking a serious (stupid) gamble funding the ISI despite fears of corruption and it caused major conflict/debate among Government officials.


CIA pays for support in Pakistan (http://articles.latimes.com/2009/nov/15/world/fg-cia-pakistan15)
It has spent millions funding the ISI spy agency, despite fears of corruption. But some say it is worth it.

LA Times
November 15, 2009



The Inter-Services Intelligence agency also has collected tens of millions of dollars through a classified CIA program that pays for the capture or killing of wanted militants, a clandestine counterpart to the rewards publicly offered by the State Department, officials said.
...

The payments have triggered intense debate within the U.S. government, officials said, because of long-standing suspicions that the ISI continues to help Taliban extremists who undermine U.S. efforts in Afghanistan and provide sanctuary to Al Qaeda members in Pakistan.

But U.S. officials have continued the funding because the ISI's assistance is considered crucial: Almost every major terrorist plot this decade has originated in Pakistan's tribal belt, where ISI informant networks are a primary source of intelligence.




*Note: Al Qaeda never actually "broke off". You really need to educate yourself and read Holy War Inc. Pakistan gave the money it got from the CIA to the most radical jihadists it could find. That's in part because Pakistan wanted a radical proxy army to help it in Khasmir.

I would like to find official documentation that suggests that Al Qaeda and the CIA are still working together.

[pcosmar]

I would like to find official documentation that suggests that Al Qaeda and the CIA are still working together.

And I would like to see some proof that MK-Ultra really ended. ;)

[jmdrake]

This is not a secret Government Conspiracy. The U.S. Government was taking a serious (stupid) gamble funding the ISI despite fears of corruption and it caused major conflict/debate among Government officials.


CIA pays for support in Pakistan (http://articles.latimes.com/2009/nov/15/world/fg-cia-pakistan15)
It has spent millions funding the ISI spy agency, despite fears of corruption. But some say it is worth it.

LA Times
November 15, 2009



The Inter-Services Intelligence agency also has collected tens of millions of dollars through a classified CIA program that pays for the capture or killing of wanted militants, a clandestine counterpart to the rewards publicly offered by the State Department, officials said.
...

The payments have triggered intense debate within the U.S. government, officials said, because of long-standing suspicions that the ISI continues to help Taliban extremists who undermine U.S. efforts in Afghanistan and provide sanctuary to Al Qaeda members in Pakistan.

But U.S. officials have continued the funding because the ISI's assistance is considered crucial: Almost every major terrorist plot this decade has originated in Pakistan's tribal belt, where ISI informant networks are a primary source of intelligence.





I would like to find official documentation that suggests that Al Qaeda and the CIA are still working together.

I gave you official documentation that the CIA was working with Al Qaeda via the franchise group the "KLA". Did you bother reading it? Now the point I've made with regards to current operations is that the CIA still funds the Pakistani ISI and the Pakistani ISI has funded Al Qaeda post 9/11. Do you dispute that? If so then you haven't read the documentation I've already provided you. Why do you want more? If you don't dispute that then what point are you arguing? Do you believe it is at all excusable to keep funding an organization that you know funded Al Qaeda post 9/11?

Also do you have any "official documentation" about Russia and Al Qaeda? You know, something besides your one poisoned defector?

Last point. Why do you keep trying to cast CIA support for an organization that supports terrorism in the past tense? Are you trying to play a fast one? You should have said "The U.S. Government is taking a serious (stupid) gamble funding the ISI" instead of "The U.S. Government was taking a serious (stupid) gamble funding the ISI". I mean come on. The report you gave was from 2009. That's hardly ancient history.

[FrankRep]

I gave you official documentation that the CIA was working with Al Qaeda via the franchise group the "KLA". Did you bother reading it?

(Reading it now)

Official Documentation
http://rpc.senate.gov/releases/1999/fr033199.htm


Your official Official Documentation doesn't say anything about the U.S. working directly with Al Qaeda. There's a big difference between helping Al Qaeda directly and helping an organization with unofficial alleged ties to Al Qaeda.



Official Documentation:

One option includes forging a closer relationship between the United States and a controversial group, the Kosovo Liberation Army (KLA), a group which has been cited in unofficial reports for alleged ties to drug cartels and Islamic terrorist organizations. This paper will examine those allegations in the context of the currently unfolding air campaign.


The Kosovo Liberation Army "began on the radical fringe of Kosovar Albanian politics, originally made up of diehard Marxist-Leninists (who were bankrolled in the old days by the Stalinist dictatorship next door in Albania) as well as by descendants of the fascist militias raised by the Italians in World War II"


Your Documentation says the Kosovo Liberation Army was originally bankrolled by the Communists. lol.

[jmdrake]

(Reading it now)

Official Documentation
http://rpc.senate.gov/releases/1999/fr033199.htm


Your official Official Documentation doesn't say anything about the U.S. working directly with Al Qaeda. There's a big difference between helping Al Qaeda directly and helping an organization with unofficial alleged ties to Al Qaeda.


Frank. You're a lost cause. If you don't understand that Al Qaeda is a franchise organization then you know nothing about international terrorism and you should quit talking about it.




The Kosovo Liberation Army "began on the radical fringe of Kosovar Albanian politics, originally made up of diehard Marxist-Leninists (who were bankrolled in the old days by the Stalinist dictatorship next door in Albania) as well as by descendants of the fascist militias raised by the Italians in World War II"


Your Documentation says the Kosovo Liberation Army was originally bankrolled by the Communists. lol.

Yep. Our government funds communist terrorist organizations. You didn't know that? We're funding the Islamo-Marxist "MEK" right now because they hate Iran. You are so one dimensional Frank.

http://www.aina.org/news/20070317151234.htm

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7902719/site/newsweek/

http://www.state.gov/s/ct/rls/rpt/fto/2801.htm

Mujahedin-e Khalq Organization (MEK or MKO) a.k.a. Mujahedin-e Khalq, the National Liberation Army of Iran (NLA, the militant wing of the MEK), People's Mujahedin Organization of Iran (PMOI), National Council of Resistance (NCR), Organization of the People's Holy Warriors of Iran, Sazeman-e Mujahedin-e Khalq-e Iran, Muslim Iranian Student's Society (front organization used to garner financial support)

Description: Formed in the 1960s by the college-educated children of Iranian merchants, the MEK sought to counter what it perceived as excessive Western influence in the Shah's regime. Following a philosophy that mixes Marxism and Islam, has developed into the largest and most active armed Iranian dissident group. Its history is studded with anti-Western activity, and, most recently, attacks on the interests of the clerical regime in Iran and abroad.

Activities: Worldwide campaign against the Iranian Government stresses propaganda and occasionally uses terrorist violence. During the 1970s the MEK staged terrorist attacks inside Iran and killed several US military personnel and civilians working on defense projects in Tehran. Supported the takeover in 1979 of the US Embassy in Tehran. In April 1992 conducted attacks on Iranian embassies in 13 different countries, demonstrating the group's ability to mount large-scale operations overseas. Recent attacks in Iran include three explosions in Tehran in June 1998 that killed three persons and the assassination of Asadollah Lajevardi, the former director of the Evin Prison.

[FrankRep]

Frank. You're a lost cause. If you don't understand that Al Qaeda is a franchise organization then you know nothing about international terrorism and you should quit talking about it.

I'm a bad person because I'm not a 9/11 Truther. :(
Ron Paul isn't a 9/11 Truther either.



Yep. Our government funds communist terrorist organizations. You didn't know that? We're funding the Islamo-Marxist "MEK" right now because they hate Iran. You are so one dimensional Frank.

The U.S. foreign policy is retarded; we can all agree on that. I disagree with you on the idea that the U.S. Wants to help Al Qaeda; the U.S. views it as "Collateral damage."

[lucius]

...The US and the USSR were on the same side vs. Nazi Germany during WWII - doesn't mean that the US "created" the USSR...

Wrong. May I suggest this book, whole pdf at link:

WALL STREET AND THE BOLSHEVIK REVOLUTION by Dr. Antony C. Sutton: http://www.jrbooksonline.com/PDF_Books/WallStreetCommieRevolution.pdf

Follow up with From Major Jordan's Diary, whole pdf at link: http://arcticbeacon.com/books/Maj_Geo_Racey_Jordan-FROM_MAJOR_JORDANS_DIARIES.pdf

[FrankRep]

The US and the USSR were on the same side vs. Nazi Germany during WWII - doesn't mean that the US "created" the USSR...



Wrong. May I suggest this book, whole pdf at link:

WALL STREET AND THE BOLSHEVIK REVOLUTION by Dr. Antony C. Sutton: http://www.jrbooksonline.com/PDF_Books/WallStreetCommieRevolution.pdf

Follow up with From Major Jordan's Diary, whole pdf at link: http://arcticbeacon.com/books/Maj_Geo_Racey_Jordan-FROM_MAJOR_JORDANS_DIARIES.pdf


Antony C. Sutton calls out Woodrow Wilson and the rise Bolsheviks, but we know Woodrow Wilson was a Socialist. :)

YouTube - Antony Sutton - Wall Street & Bolshevik Revolution Part 1.flv (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7GhPsJCXPqY)

[jmdrake]

I'm a bad person because I'm not a 9/11 Truther. :(
Ron Paul isn't a 9/11 Truther either.


:rolleyes: Cut it with the silly games Frank. I didn't say you were a bad person. I said if you don't understand that Al Qaeda operates as a franchise organization then you don't understand international terrorism. You don't have to be a 9/11 truther to understand the "franchise" nature of Al Qaeda.

Further Ron Paul has been all over the map on 9/11. Before the debates saying "I fully support an investigation because these things are always a coverup", during the debates distancing himself from supporters who think the government was behind 9/11 or covered it up, then after the election was over telling a supporter who asked him "why don't you tell the truth about 9/11" that it was "too controversial for him". I've seen all three video clips and can post them if you like but that's beside the point! It's silly for you to try to twist this into me attacking your position on 9/11 when I'm attacking your apparently ignorance over Al Qaeda being a franchise operation.



The U.S. foreign policy is retarded; we can all agree on that. I disagree with you on the idea that the U.S. Wants to help Al Qaeda; the U.S. views it as "Collateral damage."

In the end it doesn't really matter why the U.S. does what it does. The fact is that it does it. Don't be a hypocrite. Apply the same standards to Russia that you are applying to the U.S. Maybe the Russians view Al Qaeda as "collateral damage", did you not think of that? After all there have (supposedly) been terrorists attacks carried out by Al Qaeda inside Russia. If you're going to give the CIA the "benefit of the doubt" for "accidentally supporting Al Qaeda" then you have to give that same benefit of the doubt to Russia. If you're going to see some "big bad conspiracy" with respect to Russia, then when you see the similar information pointing to the CIA you have to treat the CIA the same way. That is if you want to be consistent.

[TexanRudeBoy]

The USA and Bin Laden had an intersection of interests at some point, and they helped each other out for a while to defeat a common enemy.

This is VERY different from claims that the CIA created Al-Qaeda.

The US and the USSR were on the same side vs. Nazi Germany during WWII - doesn't mean that the US "created" the USSR...


We practically did create the USSR. FDR handed over Eastern Europe to "Uncle Joe". We saved millions from concentration camps only to sentence them to gulags......

[jmdrake]

The USA and Bin Laden had an intersection of interests at some point, and they helped each other out for a while to defeat a common enemy.

This is VERY different from claims that the CIA created Al-Qaeda.

The US and the USSR were on the same side vs. Nazi Germany during WWII - doesn't mean that the US "created" the USSR...

Except the U.S. kept funding the Pakistani ISI which kept funding Al Qaeda and the Taliban long after the "common interest" had disappeared.

[FrankRep]

We practically did create the USSR. FDR handed over Eastern Europe to "Uncle Joe". We saved millions from concentration camps only to sentence them to gulags......

Not "We," blame Woodrow Wilson and FDR.

[Jace]

Robin Cook, the British Foreign Secretary who resigned in protest before the start of the Iraq War, died of a broken neck (http://www.whale.to/b/cook4.html)while hiking on the property of the Duke of Westminster (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerald_Grosvenor,_6th_Duke_of_Westminster), the third richest man in Britain who has bragged to prostitutes (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/03/12/duke-of-westminster-prost_n_91218.html)that he knows the wherabouts of Osama Bin Laden. Shortly before Cook died, he wrote this in the Guardian:


Bin Laden was, though, a product of a monumental miscalculation by western security agencies. Throughout the 80s he was armed by the CIA and funded by the Saudis to wage jihad against the Russian occupation of Afghanistan. Al-Qaida, literally "the database", was originally the computer file of the thousands of mujahideen who were recruited and trained with help from the CIA to defeat the Russians. Inexplicably, and with disastrous consequences, it never appears to have occurred to Washington that once Russia was out of the way, Bin Laden's organisation would turn its attention to the west. The danger now is that the west's current response to the terrorist threat compounds that original error. So long as the struggle against terrorism is conceived as a war that can be won by military means, it is doomed to fail. The more the west emphasises confrontation, the more it silences moderate voices in the Muslim world who want to speak up for cooperation. Success will only come from isolating the terrorists and denying them support, funds and recruits, which means focusing more on our common ground with the Muslim world than on what divides us.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/terrorism/story/0,12780,1523838,00.html

Al Qaeda is not a formal organization, even though it is portrayed as such by the American media. According to the BBC, Al Qaeda does not exist.

YouTube - BBC: al Qaeda Does Not Exist (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mztfFdpd1Rk)

9/11 was an operation done to keep America from turning away from its international obligations taken on since WWII. Before then, America's natural tendency was to avoid getting involved in European wars, and it took tremendous efforts, subversions and violence to get us into WWI and WWII.

Rejecting the internationalism of Clinton, Gore and his own father, George W. Bush was elected in 2000 under a humble foreign policy platform, and the promise of a return to our pre-WWII non-interventionist tendencies. In his campaign, Bush promised to concentrate his efforts on American interests rather than on internationalist ones. The media portrayed him as a buffoon who didn't even know the names of foreign prime ministers. In 2001, Tony Blair took on the role of attempting to coax the ignorant, insular and reluctant American president into accepting America's burden of enforcing the internationalist agenda. But Bush remained ambivalent. He cared more about baseball than Kosovo.

But then soon came 9/11 -- the "Pearl Harbor" type "catalyzing event" that resulted in George W. Bush accepting, like a deer caught in the headlights, the neocon agenda. I believe 9/11 was an operation pulled off by Mossad, M15 and traitors in the CIA, in collusion with the American media. Larry Silverstein is the obvious central figure in this operation who was key to pulling the whole thing off, with great assistance from many powerful media, political and financial figures in New York and Washington, D.C.

The international bankers' war on the American people has been going on since our founding. The Lusitania, the Zimmermann Telegraph and British intelligence's subversion of American newspapers were British psyops used to get the antiwar American people to accept involvement in the brutality of WWI. The Balfour Declaration and its promise of Palestine as a Jewish homeland was the reward offered to American newspaper owners and bankers for pulling the American people into the war.

Remembering the disaster of WWI, the majority of the American people were even more against entering WWII. But FDR's baiting of Japan and the attack on Pearl Harbor were the backdoor used to get us into that horrific war. In the leadup to war, the antiwar right was viciously attacked by radio and newspapers as isolationists and antisemites. (The antiwar right has been banished from the mainstream media ever since Pearl Harbor.) WWII ended with the establishment of the UN and the World Bank, and with Harry Truman eagerly recognizing the establishment of the state of Israel.

9/11 came during a violent intifada in Israel, in which suicide bombers were being funded by Saddam Hussein, and which, in 2001, Bush was completely ambivalent about. Then came 9/11, which resulted in the invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq. The suicide bombers turned their attention away from Israel and onto American soldiers. Then came the total destruction of Iraq and the execution of Saddam Hussein. Israel conducted operations against Lebanon, Gaza and the West Bank under cover of the American war in Iraq. The Iraq war was disastrous for Iraq and for the American people, but quite a victory for other interests.

The neocons turned on Bush halfway through his second term when he rejected intense pressure to invade Iran. Obama now appears to be reluctant to destroy Iran, or he is content to wait, despite the intense media effort to convince us that Iran is a mortal threat to our lives -- a new Nazi Germany (Islamofascists).

Who the hell is this Obama character, anyway? Is he some collosal joke played on the American people, as proof of how ignorant and gullible we all are? (Ehud Barak Saddam Hussein Obama bin Laden?) How does a mysterious figure named Barack Hussein Obama suddenly appear on the international stage so soon after 9/11 and then get elected President so shortly after a man named Osama bin Laden allegedly killed off 3,000 of our people, which resulted in two Middle Eastern wars, the death of Saddam Hussein, and the accelerated development of a vast security state? Is it a bad joke that they laugh about as proof of how stupid we are? We accepted their story about 9/11. Why wouldn't we accept their story about Obama? And, we accepted it, proving to them that we really are a stupid and gullible herd.

Watch the British newspapers for the anti-Iran propaganda, which then gets disseminated by the slick, well-financed American media.

We know they want the destruction of Iran. They have wanted it for a long time. Will they finally get their wish, and how? I think a lot of us thought it would have happened already, so who knows what's going on? We're just along for the ride. And the American media is leading the American people around by the nose, like sheep to the slaughter.

[paulitics]

Robin Cook, the British Foreign Secretary who resigned in protest before the start of the Iraq War, died of a broken neck (http://www.whale.to/b/cook4.html)while hiking on the property of the Duke of Westminster (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerald_Grosvenor,_6th_Duke_of_Westminster), the third richest man in Britain who has bragged to prostitutes (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/03/12/duke-of-westminster-prost_n_91218.html)that he knows the wherabouts of Osama Bin Laden. Shortly before Cook died, he wrote this in the Guardian:



Al Qaeda is not a formal organization, even though it is portrayed as such by the American media. According to the BBC, Al Qaeda does not exist.

YouTube - BBC: al Qaeda Does Not Exist (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mztfFdpd1Rk)

9/11 was an operation done to keep America from turning away from its international obligations taken on since WWII. Before then, America's natural tendency was to avoid getting involved in European wars, and it took tremendous efforts, subversions and violence to get us into WWI and WWII.

Rejecting the internationalism of Clinton, Gore and his own father, George W. Bush was elected in 2000 under a humble foreign policy platform, and the promise of a return to our pre-WWII non-interventionist tendencies. In his campaign, Bush promised to concentrate his efforts on American interests rather than on internationalist ones. The media portrayed him as a buffoon who didn't even know the names of foreign prime ministers. In 2001, Tony Blair took on the role of attempting to coax the ignorant, insular and reluctant American president into accepting America's burden of enforcing the internationalist agenda. But Bush remained ambivalent. He cared more about baseball than Kosovo.

But then soon came 9/11 -- the "Pearl Harbor" type "catalyzing event" that resulted in George W. Bush accepting, like a deer caught in the headlights, the neocon agenda. I believe 9/11 was an operation pulled off by Mossad, M15 and traitors in the CIA, in collusion with the American media. Larry Silverstein is the obvious central figure in this operation who was key to pulling the whole thing off, with great assistance from many powerful media, political and financial figures in New York and Washington, D.C.

The international bankers' war on the American people has been going on since our founding. The Lusitania, the Zimmermann Telegraph and British intelligence's subversion of American newspapers were British psyops used to get the antiwar American people to accept involvement in the brutality of WWI. The Balfour Declaration and its promise of Palestine as a Jewish homeland was the reward offered to American newspaper owners and bankers for pulling the American people into the war.

Remembering the disaster of WWI, the majority of the American people were even more against entering WWII. But FDR's baiting of Japan and the attack on Pearl Harbor were the backdoor used to get us into that horrific war. In the leadup to war, the antiwar right was viciously attacked by radio and newspapers as isolationists and antisemites. (The antiwar right has been banished from the mainstream media ever since Pearl Harbor.) WWII ended with the establishment of the UN and the World Bank, and with Harry Truman eagerly recognizing the establishment of the state of Israel.

9/11 came during a violent intifada in Israel, in which suicide bombers were being funded by Saddam Hussein, and which, in 2001, Bush was completely ambivalent about. Then came 9/11, which resulted in the invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq. The suicide bombers turned their attention away from Israel and onto American soldiers. Then came the total destruction of Iraq and the execution of Saddam Hussein. Israel conducted operations against Lebanon, Gaza and the West Bank under cover of the American war in Iraq. The Iraq war was disastrous for Iraq and for the American people, but quite a victory for other interests.

The neocons turned on Bush halfway through his second term when he rejected intense pressure to invade Iran. Obama now appears to be reluctant to destroy Iran, or he is content to wait, despite the intense media effort to convince us that Iran is a mortal threat to our lives -- a new Nazi Germany (Islamofascists).

Who the hell is this Obama character, anyway? Is he some collosal joke played on the American people, as proof of how ignorant and gullible we all are? (Ehud Barak Saddam Hussein Obama bin Laden?) How does a mysterious figure named Barack Hussein Obama suddenly appear on the international stage so soon after 9/11 and then get elected President so shortly after a man named Osama bin Laden allegedly killed off 3,000 of our people, which resulted in two Middle Eastern wars, the death of Saddam Hussein, and the accelerated development of a vast security state? Is it a bad joke that they laugh about as proof of how stupid we are? We accepted their story about 9/11. Why wouldn't we accept their story about Obama? And, we accepted it, proving to them that we really are a stupid and gullible herd.

Watch the British newspapers for the anti-Iran propaganda, which then gets disseminated by the slick, well-financed American media.

We know they want the destruction of Iran. They have wanted it for a long time. Will they finally get their wish, and how? I think a lot of us thought it would have happened already, so who knows what's going on? We're just along for the ride. And the American media is leading the American people around by the nose, like sheep to the slaughter.

I think it was going to happen with the Iranian speedboat incident, but the hoax was revealed on the internet too soon, and the media had to backpeddle.

If it wasn't for the internet, Iran would have been attacked before Bush left office. Iran will still be attacked, but the question remains how will America be pulled in? Are they going to have to wait until Obama leaves office?

[Seraphim]

I think it was going to happen with the Iranian speedboat incident, but the hoax was revealed on the internet too soon, and the media had to backpeddle.

If it wasn't for the internet, Iran would have been attacked before Bush left office. Iran will still be attacked, but the question remains how will America be pulled in? Are they going to have to wait until Obama leaves office?

Internet 2: familiarize yourself- It is a major thing people must fight. It is a GIGANTIC step towards Big Brother truly taking over.

[oyarde]

(Reading it now)

Official Documentation
http://rpc.senate.gov/releases/1999/fr033199.htm


Your official Official Documentation doesn't say anything about the U.S. working directly with Al Qaeda. There's a big difference between helping Al Qaeda directly and helping an organization with unofficial alleged ties to Al Qaeda.



Official Documentation:

One option includes forging a closer relationship between the United States and a controversial group, the Kosovo Liberation Army (KLA), a group which has been cited in unofficial reports for alleged ties to drug cartels and Islamic terrorist organizations. This paper will examine those allegations in the context of the currently unfolding air campaign.


The Kosovo Liberation Army "began on the radical fringe of Kosovar Albanian politics, originally made up of diehard Marxist-Leninists (who were bankrolled in the old days by the Stalinist dictatorship next door in Albania) as well as by descendants of the fascist militias raised by the Italians in World War II"


Your Documentation says the Kosovo Liberation Army was originally bankrolled by the Communists. lol.

The KLA was a radical communist organization of 20,000 armed fighters that included Germans and Americans.