1-2-3-4 a different plan for 2012

[Fredom101]

I just replied to the AJ post with an idea that I think is pretty good if I don't say so myself! So I'm posting it again here to start a new thread.

I'm hoping that this time around we just hammer home a few key issues, and stay hardline on them. In my opinion, RP (and all of us) should just keeping hammering on these issues:

1) End the income tax that's enslaving us
2) End the fed that is killing our economy
3) End the wars that are pointless, immoral, and helping to kill the economy (unless you're in the military-industrial complex)
4) End the drug war that is costing us billions, creating crime, making the drug problem far worse, and putting millions of innocent people in jail.

Of course there are a lot of other issues but I say we just keep talking about these. They are at the core of the problems. We have to get really good at all the common objections we will hear everywhere.

Perhaps we should make a flyer for us, the ones who are promoting liberty (and possibly Ron Paul).

-Here are the 4 key issues
-Here's where we stand and what we are proposing and why
-Here's a list of common objections and great rebuttals and follow up questions

That's it. When someone says "Oh Ron Paul doesn't have a chance to win", we don't even bother arguing. When someone says "What's his stance on ________? We don't give them a chance to reject him based on some petty issue by answering the question directly. Instead, we just talk about the issues. 1-2-3-4. Nothing is anywhere as important as these issues. Welfare & social security don't hold a candle to the 4.

Pretty soon everyone in the country will be issue-focused instead of candidate-focused, and the answer will be obvious.

Your thoughts?

[libertybrewcity]

I don't think ending the wars on drugs is a good issue for the REPUBLICAN primary. These voters want to hear more money for the war on drugs, more wars, and make abortion illegal.

That is something more fit for college campuses and the general election.

[pcosmar]

I don't think ending the wars on drugs is a good issue for the REPUBLICAN primary. These voters want to hear more money for the war on drugs, more wars, and make abortion illegal.

.

Then fuck em.They are the problem and need to get out of the way.
btw, it is not even most of the "republicans". It is a few loud mouthed, ignorant boneheads.
I have talked to a lot of republican voters that are tired of the drug war. It is the party leadership that keeps pushing this issue away. They gotta go.

[Agorism]

The strategy needs to be more front loaded. If we don't win CPAC and Iowa Straw poll, then it won't matter if we raise 35 million again.

[Fredom101]

I don't think ending the wars on drugs is a good issue for the REPUBLICAN primary. These voters want to hear more money for the war on drugs, more wars, and make abortion illegal.

That is something more fit for college campuses and the general election.

Then what are we doing?
This is exactly my point.
We stick to principles, and we win. We may not win the election, but we win the battle of ideas. If we water down the message, we not only won't win the election, but our ideas will be defeated as well. If the government is good at solving the drug problem, why can't it also figure out how to spend our money in other ways?

Principles over politics.
Ideas over candidates.

I'm not saying not to back Paul, but focusing on the ideas is a winning idea.

[libertybrewcity]

Then what are we doing?
This is exactly my point.
We stick to principles, and we win. We may not win the election, but we win the battle of ideas. If we water down the message, we not only won't win the election, but our ideas will be defeated as well. If the government is good at solving the drug problem, why can't it also figure out how to spend our money in other ways?

Principles over politics.
Ideas over candidates.

I'm not saying not to back Paul, but focusing on the ideas is a winning idea.

I am not at all saying that Ron Paul should support the drug war. He is adamantly opposed to the drug war and wouldn't change that position. It shouldn't be the forefront of the Republican primary. Remember, this shouldn't be an educational campaign, it needs to be a campaign to win.

[Fredom101]

I am not at all saying that Ron Paul should support the drug war. He is adamantly opposed to the drug war and wouldn't change that position. It shouldn't be the forefront of the Republican primary. Remember, this shouldn't be an educational campaign, it needs to be a campaign to win.

Win at all costs? I disagree.
It's not a matter of what the neocons or the socialists will "buy into", it's a matter of what are the most important pressing issues? If RP hides his support to end the income tax or the drug war, then when he takes office none of these ideas will be brought to reality, and we will have done more damage to our movement than if he did not win the election.

[libertybrewcity]

you are obviously not listening. I am just saying put the focus on main winning issues. If you ask any conservative what the most important issues are to them they will likely say taxes, economy, spending, health care, immigration. All of Ron Paul's ideas are amazing but running on a anti-drug war platform is not a winning platform.

The media screwed him in that sense in 2008.

[pcosmar]

you are obviously not listening. I am just saying put the focus on main winning issues. If you ask any conservative what the most important issues are to them they will likely say taxes, economy, spending, health care, immigration. All of Ron Paul's ideas are amazing but running on a anti-drug war platform is not a winning platform.

The media screwed him in that sense in 2008.

All of those issues are directly linked to and adversely affected by the Drug War. It is a direct connection.
Eliminate the Drug War and it will have a positive impact on all of those areas of concern.

I don't understand your problem with it.

[Romulus]

The strategy needs to be more front loaded. If we don't win CPAC and Iowa Straw poll, then it won't matter if we raise 35 million again.

Good point.

[libertybrewcity]

All of those issues are directly linked to and adversely affected by the Drug War. It is a direct connection.
Eliminate the Drug War and it will have a positive impact on all of those areas of concern.

I don't understand your problem with it.

Why do you not understand my problem with the war on drugs? Are you saying I shouldn't have a problem with the war on drugs? now you are just contradicting yourself.

[Fredom101]

you are obviously not listening. I am just saying put the focus on main winning issues. If you ask any conservative what the most important issues are to them they will likely say taxes, economy, spending, health care, immigration. All of Ron Paul's ideas are amazing but running on a anti-drug war platform is not a winning platform.

The media screwed him in that sense in 2008.

So because all these republicans are wrong we shouldn't lead with important issues?
These issues are all intertwined. You can't talk about health care, taxes, and immigration without a discussion of the drug war, since such a huge amount of stolen tax money goes towards it.

[libertybrewcity]

So because all these republicans are wrong we shouldn't lead with important issues?
These issues are all intertwined. You can't talk about health care, taxes, and immigration without a discussion of the drug war, since such a huge amount of stolen tax money goes towards it.

Let's say you waltz into Kentucky and say, hey, I want to legalize all drugs and stop the war on them on the federal level. Well, let me tell you that is how you get about 1 percent of the vote.

Now, read me here, I am NOT saying go to Kentucky and say you support the War on Drugs, because that is clearly politics over principle. I am saying go to Kentucky and say hey, I want to end the income tax, get government out of health care, and restore limited constitutional government.

The idea here is to win. In 2008, the idea was to educate. Now that Ron has a base of supporters and credibility, 2012 is the time to WIN. You win by having a clear platform that can and should absolutely include ending the war on drugs, however, focusing on it as the most important issue is not what mainstream conservatives want to hear. It is not the way to win the nomination. (mainstream conservatives are what we need to win, clearly...I hope you understand that).

[Fredom101]

Let's say you waltz into Kentucky and say, hey, I want to legalize all drugs and stop the war on them on the federal level. Well, let me tell you that is how you get about 1 percent of the vote.

Now, read me here, I am NOT saying go to Kentucky and say you support the War on Drugs, because that is clearly politics over principle. I am saying go to Kentucky and say hey, I want to end the income tax, get government out of health care, and restore limited constitutional government.

The idea here is to win. In 2008, the idea was to educate. Now that Ron has a base of supporters and credibility, 2012 is the time to WIN. You win by having a clear platform that can and should absolutely include ending the war on drugs, however, focusing on it as the most important issue is not what mainstream conservatives want to hear. It is not the way to win the nomination. (mainstream conservatives are what we need to win, clearly...I hope you understand that).

Votes are meaningless. If you hide your core beliefs before the election, no chance you will be able to inact any of them after you get elected.

Compromising principles is a terrible idea. Let's stick with the 4 core principles. We can argue and bend and be all big-tent about the minor ones, like abortion.

[libertybrewcity]

Votes are meaningless. If you hide your core beliefs before the election, no chance you will be able to inact any of them after you get elected.

Compromising principles is a terrible idea. Let's stick with the 4 core principles. We can argue and bend and be all big-tent about the minor ones, like abortion.

How is bending not compromising your principles? It is and shouldn't happen.

It is absolutely not compromising your principles if you don't make a BIG issue out of the drug war. You are still taking the anti drug war position, and it is still an issue without question, just don't make it the forefront of the campaign. I say make the federal reserve a BIG issue because that ties in with everything and involves the entire economy and would affect all spending.

[Minuteman2012]

Win at all costs? I disagree.
It's not a matter of what the neocons or the socialists will "buy into", it's a matter of what are the most important pressing issues? If RP hides his support to end the income tax or the drug war, then when he takes office none of these ideas will be brought to reality, and we will have done more damage to our movement than if he did not win the election.

No is saying he should sacrifice his principles, we are just saying he should emphasize the issues that will energize the conservative base and get him votes, like Rand did in Kentucky. I would advocate the anti-IRS platform, it should be one of the campaign's primary issues, but I would stay off the drug war, and if it comes up, Ron Paul should say it should be a state issue as per the Constitution and states can handle it more accordingly. That is a rational and constitutionalist way of going about the issue.

[libertybrewcity]

No is saying he should sacrifice his principles, we are just saying he should emphasize the issues that will energize the conservative base and get him votes, like Rand did in Kentucky. I would advocate the anti-IRS platform, it should be one of the campaign's primary issues, but I would stay off the drug war, and if it comes off, Ron Paul should say it should be a state issue as per the Constitution and states can handle it more accordingly. That is a rational and constitutionalist way of going about the issue.

bingo.

[klamath]

Running on the drug war is a sure fire way to lose the republican primaries. Maybe in targeted pitches to users but as a general main campaign point, no way.
Ending the income tas can't be pushed in general unless there is a well thought out transition plan. Running on just ending it will quickly be turned into a campaign saying RP is going to cut everyone on anykind of government assistance cold turkey. Tell that to all the kids on colledge loans all those on SSI, welfare, disability, all government workers and you will see the largest fear based turn out to defeat RP as ever seen.

[jmdrake]

That is something more fit for college campuses and the general election.

If I've said it once I've said it a million times...know your audience. That and find things that you are passionate about and that you and Ron Paul agree on and seek out those audiences. For instance there's nothing wrong with going to a pro-life rally and hawking his pro-life credentials. If you go to an "earth day" event that's a great place to talk about hemp legalization and how it could be used for biofuel and all sorts of other cool stuff. And yes there's a market for being "anti drug war". Just know what you're doing.

[libertybrewcity]

If I've said it once I've said it a million times...know your audience. That and find things that you are passionate about and that you and Ron Paul agree on and seek out those audiences. For instance there's nothing wrong with going to a pro-life rally and hawking his pro-life credentials. If you go to an "earth day" event that's a great place to talk about hemp legalization and how it could be used for biofuel and all sorts of other cool stuff. And yes there's a market for being "anti drug war". Just know what you're doing.

oh yes. The beauty of microtargeting is that it works! If you find one person and make certain issues BIG that they like, there is a chance you will win him or her over.