Why does the majority here support repeal of birthright citizenship?

[The Dude]

Maybe I'm missing something, but I am hesitant at the idea of the government taking away birthright citizenship. I understand that removing the amendment would help defer illegal immigrants from coming here solely to have children. But what would keep the government from saying that anyone is not a citizen based on the fact that we no longer have birthright citizenship, and taking you away? I mean, at least now if you can prove that if you are born in the US you are a citizen, no debate. But if that no longer exists, and with the way our government is continuing to trend fascist at an alarming rate, I see the possibility of the government claiming that this person or that person is not a citizen based on race, religion (muslim - see mosque outrage), or political views (DHS paper on "right wing extremists") and putting them in camps or deporting.

I don't think that repealing the amendment will do much. I'm sure some illegal immigrants come here to have children, but the welfare state is where the real prize is.

Maybe I'm going way out on a limb here, but I'm interested in hearing thoughts on this issue. I know Rand supports it, but what about you?

[Stary Hickory]

For children born to illegal immigrants. I mean what if the government decided to try a violent takeover.

Anything is possible, but just because making citizenship only to those born of American citizens does not mean the next logical step is to deny citizenship to anyone arbitrarily. There are a lot of arbitrary horrible things the government can do.

It is up to us to stop them. You know if we got rid of the forced social state, immigration would not even be an issue. People would come here for the right reasons like they used to before we controlled immigration.

You cannot have open borders and a social system that preys on the unwilling at the same time. In fact it should never exist under any circumstances.

[lynnf]

Maybe I'm missing something, but I am hesitant at the idea of the government taking away birthright citizenship. I understand that removing the amendment would help defer illegal immigrants from coming here solely to have children. But what would keep the government from saying that anyone is not a citizen based on the fact that we no longer have birthright citizenship, and taking you away? I mean, at least now if you can prove that if you are born in the US you are a citizen, no debate. But if that no longer exists, and with the way our government is continuing to trend fascist at an alarming rate, I see the possibility of the government claiming that this person or that person is not a citizen based on race, religion (muslim - see mosque outrage), or political views (DHS paper on "right wing extremists") and putting them in camps or deporting.

I don't think that repealing the amendment will do much. I'm sure some illegal immigrants come here to have children, but the welfare state is where the real prize is.

Maybe I'm going way out on a limb here, but I'm interested in hearing thoughts on this issue. I know Rand supports it, but what about you?

birthright citizenship has been abused and the result ot that has been the abuse of those living here already. I hear you on the unintended consequences aspect of maybe allowing legitimate citizens to lose out, that concerns me also.

surely there is a way to do it without so much damage to legitimate citizens, but any system can be foiled, just as our Constitutional system is being foiled right now.

lynn

[heavenlyboy34]

Birthright citizenship assumes that a child wants to be a citizen before he is old enough to make this decision. This is why the regime tags us with SSN's-to mark its territory. :( :mad:

[Danke]

The family bible has my birth recorded with witnesses.

Is that enough to stay here?

If not, where will they send me?

Some Native American reservation?

[specsaregood]

I'm sure some illegal immigrants come here to have children


"some"? Perhaps the numbers are greater than you think.

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/latestnews/stories/080810dnmetbabies.2be9a7e.html

Across Texas, 60,000 babies of noncitizens get U.S. birthright


Parkland Memorial Hospital delivers more of those babies than any other hospital in the state. Last year at Parkland, 11,071 babies were born to women who were noncitizens, about 74 percent of total deliveries. Most of these women are believed to be in the country illegally.

[amy31416]

Hell, I'm against my own citizenship most days.

[Danke]

Hell, I'm against my own citizenship most days.

You are not alone in that.

[QueenB4Liberty]

Hell, I'm against my own citizenship most days.

Yeah I kind of agree.

[ChaosControl]

I don't know, I certainly don't.

[erowe1]

Maybe I'm missing something, but I am hesitant at the idea of the government taking away birthright citizenship. I understand that removing the amendment would help defer illegal immigrants from coming here solely to have children. But what would keep the government from saying that anyone is not a citizen based on the fact that we no longer have birthright citizenship, and taking you away? I mean, at least now if you can prove that if you are born in the US you are a citizen, no debate. But if that no longer exists, and with the way our government is continuing to trend fascist at an alarming rate, I see the possibility of the government claiming that this person or that person is not a citizen based on race, religion (muslim - see mosque outrage), or political views (DHS paper on "right wing extremists") and putting them in camps or deporting.

I don't think that repealing the amendment will do much. I'm sure some illegal immigrants come here to have children, but the welfare state is where the real prize is.

Maybe I'm going way out on a limb here, but I'm interested in hearing thoughts on this issue. I know Rand supports it, but what about you?

1) Why should citizenship be given to anyone whose mother manages to cross the border when giving birth just for the sake of making the baby a citizen (which, the 14th Amendment doesn't require, and which could be done away with without amending the Constitution)?

2) Why should anyone be a citizen at all anyway? Isn't "citizen" just a euphemism for "subject"?

[JeNNiF00F00]

..

[tnvoter]

something about the welfare state and my country being bankrupt.

[JenH88]

Hell, I'm against my own citizenship most days.

no kidding... i wish i had the choice before my name was signed to all sorts of contractual agreements with this government...

[YumYum]

I don't support the repeal of birthright citizenship.

If a Cuban floats in an inner-tube to Florida, and can land on the beach before the Coast Guard can apprehend them, they are considered refugees and are allowed to live in this country; eventually becoming citizens.

Did it ever occur to anybody that the illegals that cross the border are also "refugees"?

If a pregnant mother is willing to endure hardships to enter into the United States to give birth to her child, she should be viewed as a heroine for her determination and love for our wonderful country. Her child is a product of an overwhelming desire for true freedom and liberty.

[amy31416]

You are not alone in that.


Yeah I kind of agree.


no kidding... i wish i had the choice before my name was signed to all sorts of contractual agreements with this government...

Glad to hear.

Other than that--I really don't give a rat's ass about this, it's pretty low on the list of issues that I'm concerned about.

[djdellisanti4]

Maybe for people born in the US to illegals, their citizenship should depend on their high school GPA or something? And when they turn 18 they get full citizenship if they made good grades. I feel like this might be a terrible idea, but its an idea that just occured to me out of nowere. It sounds really shady though and I imagine the abuse of the system would still occur in many ways.

[oyarde]

Maybe for people born in the US to illegals, their citizenship should depend on their high school GPA or something? And when they turn 18 they get full citizenship if they made good grades. I feel like this might be a terrible idea, but its an idea that just occured to me out of nowere. It sounds really shady though and I imagine the abuse of the system would still occur in many ways.

I could probably figure a way to make some money off of that.Set up some seedy little shop where I do some history, economics homework for the high school kids and charge a large fee.Just to make it more fun and introduce them I will call it a tax.:D

[klamath]

Is the mother coming across the border because she loves america or is she coming across because because she know american children are entitled to welfare and medical benefits? I am afraid for the majority it is for the benefits. Do I necessary blame the mother trying to get a better life for her child? No. Unfortunately the free give aways have to be eliminated starting someplace. I guess cutting people off that have never paid a dollar of taxes would be a logical place to start.
Anchor babies are a fact. I met a large group of midwives that had set up base in El paso Texas just for the expectant mothers coming across the border. This was 20 years ago.

[pacelli]

Birthright citizenship assumes that a child wants to be a citizen before he is old enough to make this decision. This is why the regime tags us with SSN's-to mark its territory. :( :mad:

The decision to get a SSN is made by the parents and/or the child. It isn't forced upon anyone. Same thing with a birth certificate. It is a choice. I know that we've been conditioned to believe these 2 documents are involuntary, but they are not.

[WaltM]

Our country currently has little benefit in increasing citizenship, especially when our government has no accountability, and no representation of the existing citizenship.

for practical and short term purposes, I'm not only for repealing birthright citizenship, but also for revoking some existing citizenship if that's a way to reduce waste, corruption and abuse of government (or restoring accountability and representation).

[amy31416]

The decision to get a SSN is made by the parents and/or the child. It isn't forced upon anyone. Same thing with a birth certificate. It is a choice. I know that we've been conditioned to believe these 2 documents are involuntary, but they are not.

Interesting. So the birth certificate is not automatic, even if you give birth in a hospital?

I knew that about the SSN, because I didn't have to get one until I got a passport...but what about Selective Service? Don't they require a SSN for their "mandatory" registration?

[klamath]

Interesting. So the birth certificate is not automatic, even if you give birth in a hospital?

I knew that about the SSN, because I didn't have to get one until I got a passport...but what about Selective Service? Don't they require a SSN for their "mandatory" registration? I don't know if it changed but I had to register for the Selective service 30 years ago when I turn 18. I didn't get my SSN until I was 25.

[amy31416]

I don't know if it changed but I had to register for the Selective service 30 years ago when I turn 18. I didn't get my SSN until I was 25.

It changed: https://www.sss.gov/RegVer/wfRegistration.aspx


Social Security Number:
(REQUIRED)

[Danke]

Interesting. So the birth certificate is not automatic, even if you give birth in a hospital?

I knew that about the SSN, because I didn't have to get one until I got a passport...but what about Selective Service? Don't they require a SSN for their "mandatory" registration?

Some people leave the hospital and say they haven't decided on a name for the baby yet.

SSN are voluntary, only required for four things.

[WaltM]

It changed: https://www.sss.gov/RegVer/wfRegistration.aspx

LOL

even if you have an APO/FPO address?

how incompetent is our federal government?

I in no way advocate escaping SSS, but has ANYBODY EVER been fined or punished for it? (just curious, I don't need to know who got away with it)

[WaltM]

Some people leave the hospital and say they haven't decided on a name for the baby yet.

SSN are voluntary, only required for four things.

what are they?

bank account, IRS, job, SSI?

[klamath]

It changed: https://www.sss.gov/RegVer/wfRegistration.aspx
It is required if you have one I believe. This note kind of states that.


PLEASE NOTE: A valid Social Security Number is required for online registration. If you do not have a social security number, you must register at any U.S. Post office by filling out a card, signing and mailing it.

[WaltM]

It is required if you have one I believe. This note kind of states that.

I'm very curious.

How the HELL can they find, locate you if you didn't have a SSN by 18 or 25?

And, if you were naturally born in the US, is your birth certificate what makes you a citizen? (or what is? is lack of one what makes you a non-citizen, and free from SSS?)

Can Obama bypass the birth certificate if he's been registered SSS?

[pacelli]

Interesting. So the birth certificate is not automatic, even if you give birth in a hospital?

I knew that about the SSN, because I didn't have to get one until I got a passport...but what about Selective Service? Don't they require a SSN for their "mandatory" registration?

The staff in the hospital assume that it is automatic, but they can't do anything to force the parents to accept it. And the parents have to go through a procedure to get the birth certificate. It is easy to forget about it, but we actually have to work really hard to become serfs.

As far as selective service, I guess if you don't have a SSN, you don't have to register. :)

[klamath]

I'm very curious.

How the HELL can they find, locate you if you didn't have a SSN by 18 or 25?
I had to laugh at the guy when I applied at 25. "Where the hell have you been???" he demanded. "In the woods" is all I said.

[WaltM]

The staff in the hospital assume that it is automatic, but they can't do anything to force the parents to accept it. And the parents have to go through a procedure to get the birth certificate. It is easy to forget about it, but we actually have to work really hard to become serfs.

As far as selective service, I guess if you don't have a SSN, you don't have to register. :)

it's ambiguous, it says you have to register SSS if you're a citizen, but how can they prove you're a citizen, short of either a driver license of birthright citizenship?

[amy31416]

The staff in the hospital assume that it is automatic, but they can't do anything to force the parents to accept it. And the parents have to go through a procedure to get the birth certificate. It is easy to forget about it, but we actually have to work really hard to become serfs.

As far as selective service, I guess if you don't have a SSN, you don't have to register. :)

:)

[klamath]

The staff in the hospital assume that it is automatic, but they can't do anything to force the parents to accept it. And the parents have to go through a procedure to get the birth certificate. It is easy to forget about it, but we actually have to work really hard to become serfs.

As far as selective service, I guess if you don't have a SSN, you don't have to register. :)

PLEASE NOTE: A valid Social Security Number is required for online registration. If you do not have a social security number, you must register at any U.S. Post office by filling out a card, signing and mailing it

[WaltM]

PLEASE NOTE: A valid Social Security Number is required for online registration. If you do not have a social security number, you must register at any U.S. Post office by filling out a card, signing and mailing it
that's what i gathered too

[amy31416]

PLEASE NOTE: A valid Social Security Number is required for online registration. If you do not have a social security number, you must register at any U.S. Post office by filling out a card, signing and mailing it

Gotcha. Thanks.