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JonathanBydlak
08-11-2010, 03:24 PM
Hey everyone --

I'm curious to know what you all think about the potential of Gary Johnson. There have been comments here and there on the forums about him, mostly positive, though some negative, but there has never really been a separate thread on his potential candidacy. Where do people stand on him?

To offer my thoughts: I think he's got a great record from when he was governor of New Mexico, having vetoed more bills (750) during those eight years than all other U.S. governors combined. He also cut government spending a lot, which is something that virtually no governor -- Romney, Pawlenty, Sanford, Palin, etc. -- even came close to doing. His views on economics are right in line with what most of us believe, and he'd be a strong opponent of federal intervention in markets (healthcare, housing, etc.).

He also was in favor of auditing the Fed, and he's very strong on the drug war (this old Cato piece sums it up nicely: http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=4993). His foreign policy views are strongly non-interventionist like RP's.

That said, he's clearly not perfectly libertarian, as the recent WSJ interview with him showed, but then again, neither is Ron, Rand, or Peter Schiff. I do like most of the positions he outlines on the website for the Our America Initiative (http://ouramericainitiative.com). I'd say he's clearly better than everyone else who's likely to run, with the potential exception of Ron.

His downsides seem to be that he risks being marginalized by the media and mainstream Republicans who don't like that he's more libertarian than social conservative.

Thoughts?

MRoCkEd
08-11-2010, 03:28 PM
I would love to have someone like him as president.

With that being said, he has neither the name recognition nor the credibility nor the motivational capabilities of Ron Paul.

They should both run, and then Gary should drop out and endorse Ron before the primaries.

My number one pick for a candidate is Judge Napolitano, but he won't run.

Ron Paul 2012.

Brian Defferding
08-11-2010, 03:31 PM
I would love to have him as President, I agree with 90% of what he stands for, but - and it pains me to admit this - I think his personality is very droll and sleep inducing. He needs to be exciting, bold and inspirational in his speeches, and he's about as exciting as a bad soap opera.

low preference guy
08-11-2010, 03:35 PM
He is OK with banning smoking in restaurants.

I wouldn't put any effort for someone who doesn't even understand the basics.

Brian Defferding
08-11-2010, 03:55 PM
He is OK with banning smoking in restaurants.

I wouldn't put any effort for someone who doesn't even understand the basics.

I highly doubt he wants to pass a federal ban on smoking. He raised a question in that WSJ interview, but I don't think it was endorsing a particular policy view.

GabrielHandler
08-11-2010, 03:58 PM
I've always liked Gary Johnson and I am always the first to support him when I see comments about him around. I feel like for the most part people don't take the time to really look into who he is, but the fact of the matter is that he is someone we should be paying attention to.

TIAFE
08-11-2010, 04:19 PM
I highly doubt he wants to pass a federal ban on smoking. He raised a question in that WSJ interview, but I don't think it was endorsing a particular policy view.

Thank you! The past couple days all I have seen around here is everyone beating this issue into the ground! It is one toss aside quote from an interview, but people are letting it be the life or death of their feelings towards Gary.

I have been following him on Facebook for a while and he has some good things going on for him. I think he will continue to struggle with name recognition and that may be his downfall, but as far as his stance on issues I feel really comfortable with them and reassured by his stellar record in NM and think he could be a really great opportunity for 2012 if Ron chooses not to run. Lets just hope we don't end up with a split ticket.

LibertyMage
08-11-2010, 04:42 PM
Jonathan,

For the most part, I like Gary. I met him at CPAC and hung out with him at a few bars in DC. He is a very cool guy.

Personally, I sign on to most of his positions. However, if he wants to start garnering support in places like this, he is going to have to stop beating around the bush on his political philosophy. The positions on his website are O-K and bland enough to be semi-palatable with the typical voter. We aren't the typical voter and he isn't a typical candidate. If he is going to get serious about a run he will need us. I'm not saying he has to be radical, but be ballsy enough to give us some meat to chew on.

With that said, I am the State Coordinator for the Maryland Campaign for Liberty and someone from his camp called to ask if we would be interested in hearing him speak sometime. It is my plan to have him speak at several places around the state after the elections in November to talk about the results of the election. I hope he brings some meat.

As a side note - I have your name written down on the note pad beside me and have been looking for your contact information for some time. I would guess your time is already spent equitably somewhere. However, if you are ever interested in getting involved in the Maryland Campaign for Liberty, send me a message. I need some leadership around your area.

-Robin

HopeForTheFuture2012
08-11-2010, 04:59 PM
Gary Johnson is easily one of the most honest and upfront politicans that I have seen out there. I think that it is refreshing to hear someone truly speak their mind and not feel like they have to please one group or another. God knows that some of those other politicians out there have meetings with teams of people to decide how to address a certain subject. Gary is a true leader that is going to give it to you straight, not some marionettes out there.

Throughout his career he’s always put people before politics and he’s spoken out on issues regardless of the political consequences (ex: marjiuana legalization, school vouchers, etc…). He also has the voting record to back up everything that he says. What I really like about Gary, however, is his fiscal conservatism. Just look at his track record as Governor and tell me that he does not have the credentials to make his case on how to start fixing this nation’s debt. I think that America’s deficit is the greatest issue facing this nation and Gary is poised to jump in to start creating some good dialogue.

Everyone is so wound up about finding fault with one another that we are losing sight that Gary is still an amazing possibility for 2012. I completely agree with Jonathan that every libertarian has their own distinct difference. No one out there is a perfect libertarian.

Libertarian or Republican, I am in full support of Gary Johnson and his efforts.

specsaregood
08-11-2010, 05:14 PM
Good luck not being 100% pro-life in the republican primary.



JOHNSON: It should be left up to the woman. If my daughter were pregnant and she came to me and asked me what she ought to do, I would advise her to have the child. But I would not for a minute pretend that I should make that decision for her or any other woman.

That just ain't gonna fly.

JonathanBydlak
08-12-2010, 10:09 AM
Good luck not being 100% pro-life in the republican primary.

That just ain't gonna fly.

Generally, I think you're right, but I also think there are good ways to talk about his views on abortion. Gary appears to be the same as Ron Paul, which is that abortion is an issue best left up to the individual states. He could easily focus on his opposition to Roe v. Wade, and if pressed further, talk about his states' rights position.

That line of reasoning won't win him everyone, but it will certainly be more palatable to those who are passionate about the issue.

specsaregood
08-12-2010, 10:19 AM
Gary appears to be the same as Ron Paul, which is that abortion is an issue best left up to the individual states. He could easily focus on his opposition to Roe v. Wade, and if pressed further, talk about his states' rights position.

While it is true they both think it should be a state-level issue, they are not "the same". As Dr. Paul will be the first to tell you that one of the few legit roles of government is to protect life and he considers an unborn fetus a life. Johnson on the otherhand does not appear to think it is a life or that such a role by government should overrule the wishes of women that want to end a pregnancy.

trey4sports
08-12-2010, 10:30 AM
jesus christ, who cares if he wants to ban smoking in a restaraunt.

He has a credible record of voting for liberty, he has a non-interventionist foreign policy, he wants to end the drug war, end the fed, hell he wont even run away from the libertarian label.......


are we really going to say no to someone who holds 90% of our views but disagrees with us on one issue?

ronpaulhawaii
08-12-2010, 10:44 AM
Thank you! The past couple days all I have seen around here is everyone beating this issue into the ground! It is one toss aside quote from an interview, but people are letting it be the life or death of their feelings towards Gary.

I have been following him on Facebook for a while and he has some good things going on for him. I think he will continue to struggle with name recognition and that may be his downfall, but as far as his stance on issues I feel really comfortable with them and reassured by his stellar record in NM and think he could be a really great opportunity for 2012 if Ron chooses not to run. Lets just hope we don't end up with a split ticket.

Welcome to the forum. This place is a crucible, lots of fire and sparks...

I like Gary Johnson. He is not afraid to challenge the status quo and will push the envelope...

A friend and I volunteered for him in Iowa recently and people were receptive.

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs270.snc4/39815_456218257952_663957952_6034167_2360836_n.jpg

I hope to see RP and GJ (and others?) in the early debates, and look forward to watching this conversation

TylerDavidWhitney
08-12-2010, 11:20 AM
Gary Johnson has plenty of charisma and deserves a serious look by every liberty lover. Not only does he defend his pro-liberty stance vigorously, he has the personality and savvy to reach out to ordinary voters and bring new people into the movement. As Governor of New Mexico, he vetoed more bills than all of the other 49 Governors combined. In fact, he was the only sitting Republican Governor not to endorse President Bush! He is one of us.

Gary is receiving more and more media coverage everyday. He has been on Colbert, Bill Maher, Fox News and countless radio shows. And of course, he plans on making regular visits to Iowa and New Hampshire.

As somebody who also wants to end the drug war, return to sound money and stop the interventionist wars, I encourage everybody here to support Gary Johnson!

jmdrake
08-12-2010, 11:50 AM
I agree with the comments about not overreacting on the smoking issue. It floors me sometimes how people major in minors. Really, if I thought a candidate was ready to end the fed, balance the budget, slash taxes (to zero hopefully), end the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, repeal Patriot Act, get rid of the department of Homeland Insecurity etc, the smoking would be the last thing I would care about. (Possibly because I don't smoke). It would bother me if Gary didn't realize the federal government doesn't really have the power to ban smoking in private restaurants, but if he supports smoking bans where the feds actually have jurisdiction (federal facilities, real interstate commerce etc), then I don't have a problem.

As for his abortion position, I can see it, but it would get him in hot water with hard core pro lifers. Some of the more (ridiculously) radical ones attacked Rand in KY and are already attacking Ron on a goofy "pro state choice" argument. Gary will at least make it clear that he, like Ron, supports the federal late term abortion ban. (Ron criticized its language but ultimately voted for it.)

Fredom101
08-12-2010, 12:21 PM
He's a Republican lite. He's NOT against the drug war (see the Hannity interview), and I've never heard him say or read where he's against the income tax. I wouldn't even support Ron Paul if he said he was simply for "drastically lowering taxes". That's what many-a-republican have said in the past, and then they go on spending just as much as the dems.

GJ is too much of a politician. He's no Ron Paul.

djdellisanti4
08-12-2010, 12:24 PM
I would love to have him as President, I agree with 90% of what he stands for, but - and it pains me to admit this - I think his personality is very droll and sleep inducing. He needs to be exciting, bold and inspirational in his speeches, and he's about as exciting as a bad soap opera.

And you know its weird because he has the potential to have a great personality. The dude climbed mountains and did all this other cool shit. He has a very good record though, but no name recog. I wish he would just run for Senate/House in 2012.

ronpaulhawaii
08-12-2010, 12:38 PM
He's a Republican lite. He's NOT against the drug war (see the Hannity interview), and I've never heard him say or read where he's against the income tax. I wouldn't even support Ron Paul if he said he was simply for "drastically lowering taxes". That's what many-a-republican have said in the past, and then they go on spending just as much as the dems.

GJ is too much of a politician. He's no Ron Paul.

I find your conclusion to be off base.

One thing GJ and RP have in common is that they are not typical pandering political types. They form their own opinions and take on issues many politicians are afraid to touch. That doesn't mean a politician like GJ is going to be overly blunt, (like RP was in '08?), but he is genuine.

Fredom101
08-12-2010, 12:53 PM
I find your conclusion to be off base.

One thing GJ and RP have in common is that they are not typical pandering political types. They form their own opinions and take on issues many politicians are afraid to touch. That doesn't mean a politician like GJ is going to be overly blunt, (like RP was in '08?), but he is genuine.

Well he's genuine about not ending the drug war or the income tax. If he's going to back down on these two huge issues, I don't see a reason to waste time on him. Seems like at least with the drug war he did pander, as he used to believe in legalizing all drugs, but now it's just weed. :(

JonathanBydlak
08-12-2010, 01:23 PM
I would love to have him as President, I agree with 90% of what he stands for, but - and it pains me to admit this - I think his personality is very droll and sleep inducing. He needs to be exciting, bold and inspirational in his speeches, and he's about as exciting as a bad soap opera.


And you know its weird because he has the potential to have a great personality. The dude climbed mountains and did all this other cool shit.

I think you're both right that he could use some work on his "on the stump" delivery, but I also think it's very early for this to be a major concern. Those skills can be easily learned and improved -- what's tougher, I think, is teaching a hack to be good on the issues. Interestingly, when I showed a friend of mine a picture of Johnson the other day, his first comment was "he looks very presidential."

I also think that Gary has the big benefit of coming across as very genuine. Having seen him in one-on-one situations and in small groups at CPAC, he has the potential to do quite well when meeting with voters at pot luck dinners in Iowa and doughnut shops in New Hampshire.

teamrican1
08-12-2010, 02:07 PM
His personality is what really kills him. His record as Governor was great. His positions on most issues make him a great liberty candidate on paper. But I just doubt his ability to inspire or motivate even our base, let alone the masses.

Imperial
08-12-2010, 02:32 PM
I really like Gary Johnson. But I think that he needs to run for US Senate in New Mexico and let Dr. Paul run for President.

TheTyke
08-12-2010, 03:11 PM
Ron has so much name recognition, a movement building behind him, and a special place in our hearts. I just don't see any other liberty candidate holding a candle to him... and we need to be as successful as possible in 2012. I like Gary, but he doesn't motivate me to brave hell and high water for him like Ron does. And I feel that sentiment from others too.

It'd be great to have a bunch of liberty candidates in the debates challenging the neocons though! So I'd say go for it. See how it goes, and carefully consider how long to stay in based on the strategic situation.

Epic
08-12-2010, 03:14 PM
There is exactly 0% chance that Gary Johnson will be president. He is fairly inarticulate, unknown, unconnected, and his abortion and immigration stances will not endear him to the conservative base.

Ron Paul is the man to go with. His views brings together a grand and disparate coalition of interests. And he is known.

Only if Ron Paul declines the race should people hop on the Johnson bandwagon - and even then, understand that it will be an educational campaign because he has no chance to win.

Ron Paul has the chance to win.

Stary Hickory
08-12-2010, 03:15 PM
Well if he is 25% statist I don't see a problem, we have a government that is like 80% statist, so he moves us closer to liberty. That is better in my book. He seems ok, although he has said some things lately that lowered my opinion of him some.

Would he be better than Obama? Hell yes

Is he better than any GOP front runner(besides Paul) yes on that too.

So under these circumstances and seeing as we have an out of control lawless government then he is a great choice if you are trying to secure your freedom.

The Dude
08-12-2010, 03:24 PM
Good luck not being 100% pro-life in the republican primary.



That just ain't gonna fly.

I agree. His position on abortion will kill any chance he has in a GOP primary. Ron Paul is our only hope.

silentshout
08-12-2010, 03:30 PM
I'd vote for him. I agree with most of what he says he stands for.

LibertyMage
08-12-2010, 03:56 PM
I agree with most of the other sentiments here. Gary needs to work on his speaking skills. And really, I don't understand why he wouldn't run for senate rather than running for president. We could rally our whole machine behind a senate run and everyone would be behind him. If he runs for president there is going to be a huge division among our people. Run for senate, Gary!

MRoCkEd
08-12-2010, 03:58 PM
I agree with most of the other sentiments here. Gary needs to work on his speaking skills. And really, I don't understand why he wouldn't run for senate rather than running for president. We could rally our whole machine behind a senate run and everyone would be behind him. If he runs for president there is going to be a huge division among our people. Run for senate, Gary!
yes!
someone put up a Draft Gary for Senate site..

Imperial
08-12-2010, 04:02 PM
yes!
someone put up a Draft Gary for Senate site..

If I knew how to, I definitely would.

JonathanBydlak
08-12-2010, 05:12 PM
As a side note - I have your name written down on the note pad beside me and have been looking for your contact information for some time. I would guess your time is already spent equitably somewhere. However, if you are ever interested in getting involved in the Maryland Campaign for Liberty, send me a message. I need some leadership around your area.

-Robin

Feel free to contact me by PM, Robin.

MozoVote
08-12-2010, 05:37 PM
Gary is young enough that he could serve a term or two in the Senate and still run for president. It'd probably set him up better for the big run, if he did it.

JonathanBydlak
08-12-2010, 05:41 PM
With that being said, he has neither the name recognition nor the credibility nor the motivational capabilities of Ron Paul.


I find it interesting that so many people on here have been commenting about Gary Johnson's lack of name recognition. When Ron Paul started out, he had virtually no name recognition, and yet, was successful in making a name for himself -- even if he didn't win. I don't dispute that lack of name recognition is a significant hurdle, but it's not insurmountable.

There are a number of things that make Gary's low name recognition less troublesome than it was for Ron in 2008. For one, he's perceived as being much more mainstream, which reduces the odds of him being marginalized. But the bigger thing is that there is already the "liberty infrastructure" that RP built. Gary Johnson would not be starting from scratch, and that's a huge leg up. We need only look to Rand or Peter Schiff as the perfect examples of this. Regardless of whether or not they win, candidates close to our political views are in a far better position than they were pre-2008, high name recognition or not.

I also think it's interesting that no one has touched on the issue of Ron's age. I'll admit this isn't a problem for me personally, but for most people it will be. And if you don't believe me, just ask your friends who aren't as politically active whether they would vote for a 76 year-old man who's running for president. Again, knowing what shape Ron is in, I have no personal qualms about it. But I think those of you who think Ron's electability is somehow massively greater than it was in 2008 should think about that a little more.

As for Johnson's credibility, I find that argument to be very unpersuasive. As I said in another comment, his record as governor is unparalleled when compared to anyone else in the race. And even compared to Ron Paul in 2008, it is superior. Whether or not his views on the issues are superior to RP is a different question, but his record as governor -- i.e. "mini president" in the eyes of the press/broader populace -- is something that most people will eat up.

Regarding motivational capabilities -- I'd say that remains to be seen. At this point, I'm inclined to agree with that assessment. But that said, I think it's important not to overstate RP's motivational capabilities as well. Ron earned a significant portion of the vote, but let's not forget that he also lost. He fired up a lot of us, but he was not able to catch on to the extent of others in the race (there are obviously many reasons for that; I'm just trying to put this all in perspective). My point is that we really don't know whether Gary Johnson, Ron Paul, or someone else will be best able to persuade and fire up the mainstream conservative base. And like it or not, if people really care about winning, that is what will need to be done -- not just turning on libertarians like us.

libertarian4321
08-12-2010, 06:46 PM
If RP doesn't run in 2012, Johnson would be better than almost anyone else I can think of as a back up.

I do agree, however, that he isn't the most charismatic guy in the world, though this is based only on the speech he gave at the Rally for the Republic- I was expecting greatness, and got something less than average instead.

Although maybe if he works on his speeches he will improve. Ron Paul made huge improvements in his public speaking ability as the campaign went on.

libertybrewcity
08-12-2010, 06:48 PM
I like Gary Johnson a lot, I just don't think he is Presidential material. I would say he is more fit for a senate or governor seat.

One thing that turns me off is his lack of charisma and IMO bad public speaking skills.

I also worry that his entrance into the race would hurt a DEAD SERIOUS Ron Paul presidential run. In the past few months those worries have almost disappeared but it is still a possibility.

I would support him for president but I don't think I would go all out. I really think we need this guy in the senate. He would have an excellent chance. He has virtually ZERO name recognition in the United States minus New Mexico and probably near 100 percent name recognition in NM.

He would never be able to compete against any of the top tier Republican candidates such as Palin or Romney. Maybe I'm wrong but I have seen nothing that tells me has much of chance or is even that great of a candidate(besides being libertarian-republican).

TheTyke
08-12-2010, 06:59 PM
The point is we spent 2007/2008 and even 2009/2010 building Ron's name recognition. With someone new we'd have to start all over. Yes, the liberty movement has more organization now, but they are A) Less inspired by other candidates, B) A fraction of the force we could deploy already having name recognition.

I feel that Ron Paul ran to educate. He forced some ideas into the mainstream (ie. the economic crisis, the Fed, etc.) but his ads were terrible and his campaign wasn't prepared to properly use the support he got. With the movement we have now, I'd love to see him run TO WIN. His campaign strategy and commercials need improving, and possibly he could take a few pages from Rand's book on messaging.

JonathanBydlak
08-12-2010, 09:22 PM
Although maybe if he works on his speeches he will improve. Ron Paul made huge improvements in his public speaking ability as the campaign went on.

+1

klamath
08-12-2010, 09:38 PM
I like GJ if he is not running against RP. He has a lot of good issues.
He has several issues he has to overcome in a republican primary.

Pro abortion,
Long term MJ user that sometimes acts like it effected his speaking ability.
Left his wife in a messy way that opponents will imply killed her. It will hurt him with the women voters.

Knightskye
08-12-2010, 10:11 PM
He's got my vote.

I don't care about great oratory. I want substance.

Johnson's the opposite of Obama.

JonathanBydlak
08-13-2010, 09:28 AM
He would never be able to compete against any of the top tier Republican candidates such as Palin or Romney. Maybe I'm wrong but I have seen nothing that tells me has much of chance or is even that great of a candidate(besides being libertarian-republican).

In a word, his record. Gary Johnson has something that none of the other candidates have, which is a legitimate record of cutting the size of government. He vetoed more bills than all other governors combined while he was in office, and actually succeeded in reducing the size of New Mexico's public workforce.

Contrast that with Romney/Pawlenty/Palin/Huckabee, who were all relatively liberal governors when it comes to fiscal issues. If Gary Johnson can succeed in painting himself as the only candidate who has real government-cutting credentials -- and I'll be the first to admit, that's still a big "if" at this point -- then he should have as good a chance as anyone in a tea party-influenced election.

All of the so-called "front-runners" have serious flaws, making 2012 a year calling out for a dark horse nominee like Clinton was for Democrats in 1992.

MRoCkEd
08-13-2010, 09:49 AM
Regarding motivational capabilities -- I'd say that remains to be seen. At this point, I'm inclined to agree with that assessment. But that said, I think it's important not to overstate RP's motivational capabilities as well. Ron earned a significant portion of the vote, but let's not forget that he also lost. He fired up a lot of us, but he was not able to catch on to the extent of others in the race (there are obviously many reasons for that; I'm just trying to put this all in perspective). My point is that we really don't know whether Gary Johnson, Ron Paul, or someone else will be best able to persuade and fire up the mainstream conservative base. And like it or not, if people really care about winning, that is what will need to be done -- not just turning on libertarians like us.
I tried my best to get excited about Gary, but the several speeches and interviews I've seen have not inspired me at all. Ron Paul is almost a household name now. Why lose all the progress we've made there to start with someone 0.01% of people have even heard of?

If he can't inspire the only people who know him, he's not going to catch on.

With regard to the mainstream conservative base, it seems to me that Gary Johnson is screwing up his opportunities here by making his top issue the legalization of marijuana, while also supporting gay marriage, abortion, and open borders.

teamrican1
08-13-2010, 01:33 PM
Regarding motivational capabilities -- I'd say that remains to be seen. At this point, I'm inclined to agree with that assessment. But that said, I think it's important not to overstate RP's motivational capabilities as well. Ron earned a significant portion of the vote, but let's not forget that he also lost. He fired up a lot of us, but he was not able to catch on to the extent of others in the race (there are obviously many reasons for that; I'm just trying to put this all in perspective). My point is that we really don't know whether Gary Johnson, Ron Paul, or someone else will be best able to persuade and fire up the mainstream conservative base. And like it or not, if people really care about winning, that is what will need to be done -- not just turning on libertarians like us.

That's just the thing though. Ron Paul was able to overcome his lack of charisma and speaking ability because he has that nearly 40 year record of absolutely uncompromising, principled, limited government votes. Gary has a great record by mainstream GOP standards, but it is nothing like Paul's and contains the typical mainstream hypocrisies and compromises. Ron was also aided by his character- polite to a fault, completely square in terms of his lifestyle, and a complete old school style gentleman. Gary is more like the typical baby boomer in terms of lifestyle and temperament, he left his wife for another woman, and most unfortunately, his ex-wife happened to die a little less than a year after the divorce which isn't going to play well.

Gary is pretty much just as bad if not worse than Ron in terms of political charisma and speaking ability (he also has a considerably lower IQ, btw), but unlike Paul, he doesn't have those other exceptional qualities to overcome his campaigning faults.

K466
08-13-2010, 02:03 PM
I generally like Gary. But he doesn't have any chance to win compared to Ron Paul.

Any polls put him in the double digits nationally? I don't think so.

JonathanBydlak
08-16-2010, 09:23 AM
http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2010/08/a-man-who-deserves-to-be-viable-in-2012.html

Ron Nielson
08-18-2010, 09:09 PM
Gary is more like the typical baby boomer in terms of lifestyle and temperament, he left his wife for another woman, and most unfortunately, his ex-wife happened to die a little less than a year after the divorce which isn't going to play well.

Having reviewed the comments on this thread ----and having known and worked with Gary Johnson since 1993 when we engaged on his first campaign for Governor of New Mexico ---and someone who talks with Gary on a daily basis----I believe I should respond to a couple of posts.

To start with Gary will not be running for the U.S. Senate in New Mexico. There is 0% chance of that happening, as he has no interest whatsoever in serving in that capacity. However, I am sure that whatever aspirations Gary may personally have he will undertake them with the same vigor and passion as he does with all of his actions in life. He is tireless, with an energy level for work that is astounding. There is no doubt that Gary will have worn down even the most ardent volunteers on a campaign long before Gary is ready to call it a night. Retail politics has met it's match when it comes to Gary Johnson.

As has been noted, Gary has started a 501c4 and has been traveling basically non-stop since January to over 24 different states.....talking about issues and listening and learning about what is important and what is right with America.

Learning and listening to the opinions of Americans....it is an important and an often forgotten concept in American politics. Criticism and providing suggestion on issues are always welcome and open dialogue and free speech are the basis of what America is all about.

But comments that are untrue ......well, that is a different issue. Clarification must be made on an un-truth that was posted earlier on this thread. After Gary had served as Governor of New Mexico his marriage with Dee fell on hard times (and may I note that I knew Dee very well). The difficulty had begun during his last term .....but they stayed together until he had finished his time in office.

Gary chose to separate and to initiate the divorce. It was not an easy decision....it was a very difficult and emotional experience. The separation did not involve another women as there was no other women in Gary's life. It involved a very difficult and personal situation. Something that I have no interest in discussing in scope --although I have no doubt it will probably be made public at some time by others. Gary felt that the separation and eventual divorce was a very private matter and he refused to answer any questions about the subject with the press. Although, speculation circled that there must be another women and that this was the reason for the separation......this was simply not the case.

After a long period of separation the divorce was finalized. By then Dee's health had deteriorated and she passed away from a heart ailment only a few months after the divorce.

The situation has been a very tragic one for the Johnson family. Many years have passed now since the divorce ---the two adult children and Gary have each moved on with their lives.

Gary maintains a very strong relationship with his children. He has also met a women that he has developed a deep attachment and love with....they have been together for almost two years. They are engaged and are planning towards a marriage soon.

Over the years I have worked with hundreds of political candidates and office holders. I can say soundly that Gary Johnson's integrity and resolve to a life of principle is solid. He is a man of commitment and follows the commitments that he makes.

When Gary left office in 2002 he had done his job----a very good one at that---and now was looking forward to a private and personal life. But like many of you---the current situation in this country was not something that can be ignored.

I believe you will find something with Gary that you might not have seen before.....not just someone that believes or talks about liberty based ideals but someone that has taken words and turned them into actions. Gary is someone that is willing to truly stand up for what he believes to be right......not just in his personal life but in his public undertakings. When he committed to not allow any taxes to be raised in New Mexico and to create a government that treated everyone equally no matter who they were.....that is exactly what he did.....even if it took 750 vetoes and thousands of line items to make it happen.

Now my opinion is a biased one....in the fact that I know Gary well. If you don't know of Gary...take a look and for heaven sake don't marginalize him. He stands up for the same principles that we each believe in. We all witnessed what marginalization of a candidate by the media did in 2008------are we now going to do it to one of our own? I should hope not.

……and if you have not heard Gary speak since earlier this year.......come to an event and listen again. He is not as rusty as he may have been 7 or 8 months ago. But let me say with caution---- that Gary is not a speaker of mere platitudes and "feel good" one liners. He speaks direct and talks about real solutions and he never backs away from dealing with the difficult problems in the fear of loosing the support of his audience.

Please let me know of your comments and if there are other questions that I can answer about Gary or what he is doing currently…..I am happy to do so.

trey4sports
08-18-2010, 09:21 PM
Thanks for coming by and clearing some things up for us. I really like Gary and will definetly donate, and work for his campaign if Ron doesn't run. I would really like to see both of them up on stage debating the neo-cons though.

Paul/Johnson or Johnson/Paul 2012!


EDIT: I don't know what you're level of "knowing" Governor Johnson is but is he an ardent opponent of The Federal Reserve? I know he did talk briefly about it at the R4R but I was just curious as to how engaged he is in Austrian economics? Thanks

MRoCkEd
08-18-2010, 09:26 PM
To start with Gary will not be running for the U.S. Senate in New Mexico. There is 0% chance of that happening, as he has no interest whatsoever in serving in that capacity.
Okay, fair enough. I think it would be great if Gary runs for president, so long as that doesn't prevent Ron from running. Let's get both of them up there.

rancher89
08-18-2010, 09:33 PM
Gary just spoke to us tonight in Charlotte, NC. I must say as a supporter "from afar" that I did not know how much fun it would be to hear him speak.

I felt as if he were a fellow businessman who just happened to get into a position where he could make a difference and did what he said he would do.

I was very impressed with him. He fielded tough questions and showed a great deal of poise.


If the rumors and what Carol has said are true, and Ron will run in 2012, I cannot think of a better VP than Gov Gary Johnson.

A friend's dem coworker said of the Gov, "Oh, he's one of the 'good' Republicans."

Need I say more?

rancher89
08-18-2010, 09:36 PM
Okay, fair enough. I think it would be great if Gary runs for president, so long as that doesn't prevent Ron from running. Let's get both of them up there.

Johnson will not run against RP, they ironed that out months ago.

I asked him tonight about running for VP. He said that it "would make sense for two like minded candidates to run on the same ticket."

I would expect that he will stump for RP with a passion.

MRoCkEd
08-18-2010, 09:41 PM
Johnson will not run against RP, they ironed that out months ago.

I asked him tonight about running for VP. He said that it "would make sense for two like minded candidates to run on the same ticket."

I would expect that he will stump for RP with a passion.
Why can't he run to get in the debates and then drop out and endorse Ron before the primaries?

rancher89
08-18-2010, 09:47 PM
Why can't he run to get in the debates and then drop out and endorse Ron before the primaries?

I don't know if he'll do that, I suppose it is a possibility, that way if he's pulling better numbers he could take the top of the ticket.

the bottom line is that he won't run against Ron. Period.

Consolidate your base, win the primary.....

klamath
08-18-2010, 09:50 PM
Having reviewed the comments on this thread ----and having known and worked with Gary Johnson since 1993 when we engaged on his first campaign for Governor of New Mexico ---and someone who talks with Gary on a daily basis----I believe I should respond to a couple of posts.

To start with Gary will not be running for the U.S. Senate in New Mexico. There is 0% chance of that happening, as he has no interest whatsoever in serving in that capacity. However, I am sure that whatever aspirations Gary may personally have he will undertake them with the same vigor and passion as he does with all of his actions in life. He is tireless, with an energy level for work that is astounding. There is no doubt that Gary will have worn down even the most ardent volunteers on a campaign long before Gary is ready to call it a night. Retail politics has met it's match when it comes to Gary Johnson.

As has been noted, Gary has started a 501c4 and has been traveling basically non-stop since January to over 24 different states.....talking about issues and listening and learning about what is important and what is right with America.

Learning and listening to the opinions of Americans....it is an important and an often forgotten concept in American politics. Criticism and providing suggestion on issues are always welcome and open dialogue and free speech are the basis of what America is all about.

But comments that are untrue ......well, that is a different issue. Clarification must be made on an un-truth that was posted earlier on this thread. After Gary had served as Governor of New Mexico his marriage with Dee fell on hard times (and may I note that I knew Dee very well). The difficulty had begun during his last term .....but they stayed together until he had finished his time in office.

Gary chose to separate and to initiate the divorce. It was not an easy decision....it was a very difficult and emotional experience. The separation did not involve another women as there was no other women in Gary's life. It involved a very difficult and personal situation. Something that I have no interest in discussing in scope --although I have no doubt it will probably be made public at some time by others. Gary felt that the separation and eventual divorce was a very private matter and he refused to answer any questions about the subject with the press. Although, speculation circled that there must be another women and that this was the reason for the separation......this was simply not the case.

After a long period of separation the divorce was finalized. By then Dee's health had deteriorated and she passed away from a heart ailment only a few months after the divorce.

The situation has been a very tragic one for the Johnson family. Many years have passed now since the divorce ---the two adult children and Gary have each moved on with their lives.

Gary maintains a very strong relationship with his children. He has also met a women that he has developed a deep attachment and love with....they have been together for almost two years. They are engaged and are planning towards a marriage soon.

Over the years I have worked with hundreds of political candidates and office holders. I can say soundly that Gary Johnson's integrity and resolve to a life of principle is solid. He is a man of commitment and follows the commitments that he makes.

When Gary left office in 2002 he had done his job----a very good one at that---and now was looking forward to a private and personal life. But like many of you---the current situation in this country was not something that can be ignored.

I believe you will find something with Gary that you might not have seen before.....not just someone that believes or talks about liberty based ideals but someone that has taken words and turned them into actions. Gary is someone that is willing to truly stand up for what he believes to be right......not just in his personal life but in his public undertakings. When he committed to not allow any taxes to be raised in New Mexico and to create a government that treated everyone equally no matter who they were.....that is exactly what he did.....even if it took 750 vetoes and thousands of line items to make it happen.

Now my opinion is a biased one....in the fact that I know Gary well. If you don't know of Gary...take a look and for heaven sake don't marginalize him. He stands up for the same principles that we each believe in. We all witnessed what marginalization of a candidate by the media did in 2008------are we now going to do it to one of our own? I should hope not.

……and if you have not heard Gary speak since earlier this year.......come to an event and listen again. He is not as rusty as he may have been 7 or 8 months ago. But let me say with caution---- that Gary is not a speaker of mere platitudes and "feel good" one liners. He speaks direct and talks about real solutions and he never backs away from dealing with the difficult problems in the fear of loosing the support of his audience.

Please let me know of your comments and if there are other questions that I can answer about Gary or what he is doing currently…..I am happy to do so.

What you say about GJ's divorce and what was written in the ABQjournel seem to contradict each other. If you can shed more light on this and solidly refute what was printed it would take a big negative off GJ for me.


Ex-Gov. Johnson, Wife Are Divorcing
By Leslie Linthicum
Copyright © 2005 Albuquerque Journal; Journal Staff Writer
Former Gov. Gary Johnson and his wife, Dee, were New Mexico's first
couple for eight years.
Now, they're calling it quits.
Johnson said this week the couple had been separated since May and
were taking legal steps toward divorce.
"I love her. I always will," Johnson said in a phone interview from
Hawaii, where he was giving a speech. "We have just grown apart for
what I consider a long time. I've been going from one adventure to
another and I've been doing it by myself."
Johnson, 52, said Tuesday that he initiated the separation and that he
has been dating Deborah Werenko of Santa Fe, a family practice
physician and divorced mother of three who is also a competitive
athlete. Werenko on Wednesday confirmed the two are dating.
Dee Johnson, 52, said Gary's actions are responsible for the split.
"My heart is broken with what Gary's done to me but I'm a survivor
and I'll make it through this."
Dee Johnson is living at the couple's Albuquerque house; Gary
Johnson is living at their Taos Ski Valley house.
The Johnsons, who met while skiing at Red River when they were
teenagers, have been married for 28 years and have two grown children.
They built a construction firm together, Big J, and were self-made
millionaires by the time Johnson decided to run for governor in 1994.
Johnson, a maverick Republican, took office in 1995 and served for
eight years. His tenure was marked by furious fights with state
lawmakers. He attracted the nickname "Governor No" for his record
number of vetoes and "Puff Daddy" for his quest to decriminalize
marijuana use.
Since leaving office in 2002, Johnson has pursued athletics, training
for triathlons, climbing Mount Everest and skiing nearly every day in
the winter from his home in Taos Ski Valley.
Dee Johnson has been involved in charity events and has pursued art,
learning welding and sculpting from renowned artist OK Harris.
Johnson and Werenko attended the gala grand opening of the
Anderson-Abruzzo International Balloon Museum together in
Albuquerque on Saturday— the former governor's hair done up in a
French braid— and were in Johnson's pickup truck the following
afternoon when it was involved in an accident on Interstate 25 north of
Albuquerque.
They competed together in the "Quest for Fire" adventure race in
Angel Fire in May and both represented New Mexico in the World
Ironman Triathlon in Hawaii in 2002.

LibertyMage
08-19-2010, 01:57 AM
Just so that it is said - the way Ron Paul connected with people in 2008 is grossly underestimated. I guarantee our resources will be going to Ron if he runs.

Our goal is liberty and we are in it for the long run. If Gary wants to play a part in this game, it is probably a good idea for him to put in some work for us. If he doesn't want to run for the house or senate, he has to find some way to put in the time. I realize that Ron is only going to be in the game for so many more cycles. If someone wants to take the reigns when he steps out, they better make it clear that they are willing to put in the leg work right now.

Elwar
08-19-2010, 06:24 AM
From following the GJ campaign it appears that he's doing all the things needed to win. This is not an education campaign. His record should be enough for those who question where he stands on the issues. But he appears to be running more toward the center (where all of the votes are).

He will pull in many voters who support smaller government but believe that Ron Paul is too extreme for them. He'll pull in a lot of Republicans that don't like Ron Paul for whatever other reasons. He knows how to run a campaign and win. He did it in New Mexico against a Republican incumbant with very little name recognition outside of being a business owner.

I don't agree with a lot of things he's campaigned on, but I have looked at his record and delved into actual legislation and stances while in office and he is the right guy for president.

I believe that he and Ron Paul will run and by around October or November if either one has a huge lead, the other will drop out and endorse the other.

As much as we all want Ron Paul to win, politics is crazy and you never know what the voters will find as the major issue of the day. Maybe legalizing marijuana will become the new craze for the 2012 elections and Johnson will dominate. Or the Federal Reserve will be huge and Ron Paul will surge. Either way, the more candidates the better. Until the primary (even the Iowa Caucus is ok to have multiple liberty candidates the way things work).

NCGOPer_for_Paul
08-19-2010, 10:54 AM
I was at the Gov. Johnson event last night in Charlotte as well. I was very impressed with his speech and the fact he seemed like a regular guy.

He sounded like an establishment Republican for the most part, and could actually see him connecting with regular Republicans. I think he's a better speaker than Ron Paul.

I do have some disagreements with the Governor on illegal immigration, but he's head and shoulders above anyone else in the race except for Ron Paul.

libertybrewcity
08-19-2010, 11:53 AM
Maybe I have been too critical about GJ. I just really want to see Ron Paul in the presidency and didn't want anything or anyone to get in the way of that...

If Gary Johnson had a better chance of winning I would support GJ.

trey4sports
08-19-2010, 12:12 PM
Maybe I have been too critical about GJ. I just really want to see Ron Paul in the presidency and didn't want anything or anyone to get in the way of that...

If Gary Johnson had a better chance of winning I would support GJ.

i know how you feel. At the same time i think it' time that we influence the debate and run more than 1 candidate at a time

Jack Bauer
08-19-2010, 12:32 PM
Why can't he run to get in the debates and then drop out and endorse Ron before the primaries?

He should do that.

It will not only show support for Ron but also that there are more GOP candidates that have similar views to RP. Surely Sean Hannity can't take on both of them especially as their positions turn out to be more sensible as days go on.

It could turn out to be a winning strategy.

qh4dotcom
08-19-2010, 01:46 PM
Since he has a lot of name recognition in New Mexico, I think he should run for Senate in 2012

JonathanBydlak
08-23-2010, 08:20 AM
I believe that he and Ron Paul will run and by around October or November if either one has a huge lead, the other will drop out and endorse the other.

As much as we all want Ron Paul to win, politics is crazy and you never know what the voters will find as the major issue of the day. Maybe legalizing marijuana will become the new craze for the 2012 elections and Johnson will dominate. Or the Federal Reserve will be huge and Ron Paul will surge. Either way, the more candidates the better. Until the primary (even the Iowa Caucus is ok to have multiple liberty candidates the way things work).


I think it's time that we influence the debate and run more than 1 candidate at a time.

I look at this as analogous to central planning. Just like our government can't sit in a room and centrally plan how best to spend our money, it's not really possible for anyone to centrally plan elections and know which candidates will best appeal to electorate.

Heck, every election there are 5-7 neocons running, so why can't we have multiple liberty Republicans spreading our message?

angelatc
08-23-2010, 08:47 AM
His downsides seem to be that he risks being marginalized by the media and mainstream Republicans who don't like that he's more libertarian than social conservative.

Thoughts?

His open borders philosophy will never win him any GOP primaries.

(In before ideologues.)

MRoCkEd
08-23-2010, 09:01 AM
His open borders philosophy will never win him any GOP primaries.

(In before ideologues.)
Same with pro-choice views

JonathanBydlak
08-23-2010, 09:08 AM
His open borders philosophy will never win him any GOP primaries.

(In before ideologues.)

Meh. You could have said the same thing about RP in 2008: "His 'isolationist' foreign policy will never win him any GOP primaries." Maybe that's true, but I don't think that means he deserved any less support from us because of it.

McCain won the GOP nomination in 2008 while being (at the time, anyway) completely open borders. So while I agree that such a position can be a hurdle, recent history suggests it's not as insurmountable as one might think.

Gary's position is also, I think, actually more nuanced than your statement gives him credit for. Specifically, he talks about how violence along the border is a consequence of our poor drug laws. Yes, this line-of-reasoning requires voters to be open-minded about the issue, but it's not as if he's saying "I don't care about this issue at all." He just has an alternate explanation and solution.

JonathanBydlak
08-23-2010, 09:12 AM
Same with pro-choice views

I've got to say that I find these statements kind of frustrating. As someone who cares about electing people who share a liberty political orientation, I think it's rather ironic that there are people willing to dismiss candidates on the presumed grounds that they are "not electable."

I don't mean to dispute the legitimacy of the concerns, of course, but I just don't understand why this way of thinking is suddenly acceptable when it was so resoundingly rejected (correctly, in my view) with respect to RP in 2008.

Brian4Liberty
08-23-2010, 11:11 AM
He is OK with banning smoking in restaurants.

I wouldn't put any effort for someone who doesn't even understand the basics.

Lol! Yeah, that's a big issue. :rolleyes:


I highly doubt he wants to pass a federal ban on smoking. He raised a question in that WSJ interview, but I don't think it was endorsing a particular policy view.

Never at the Federal level.


jesus christ, who cares if he wants to ban smoking in a restaraunt.

He has a credible record of voting for liberty, he has a non-interventionist foreign policy, he wants to end the drug war, end the fed, hell he wont even run away from the libertarian label.......

are we really going to say no to someone who holds 90% of our views but disagrees with us on one issue?

Or agrees with "us" on that issue? ;)


To start with Gary will not be running for the U.S. Senate in New Mexico. There is 0% chance of that happening, as he has no interest whatsoever in serving in that capacity.

Interesting. Why no interest in Senate? We need every good Senator we can get, may even be more important than the President.


Why can't he run to get in the debates and then drop out and endorse Ron before the primaries?

The more Liberty candidates in the debates, the better!


His open borders philosophy will never win him any GOP primaries.


That could be a problem. Unlike a lot of emotional issues that are red herrings, this is both an emotional issue, but also one that effects everyday Americans. The economy is terrible, true unemployment is high. The government social spending is out of control. That is a real issue, and it is effected by immigration.

As for the divorce issue, give me a break. How many politicians have had multiple divorces? It's not an issue for any of them. But as soon as we find a politician that might be "on our side", we rip them apart for minor things. It's counter-productive.

Ron Nielson
08-23-2010, 11:52 AM
What you say about GJ's divorce and what was written in the ABQjournel seem to contradict each other. If you can shed more light on this and solidly refute what was printed it would take a big negative off GJ for me.

I hope this might shed some light on your concerns--- The article that you have referenced is the only statement that Gary made to the press regarding this issue, of which I am aware. As noted in the article it was a very emotional time for all parties. Dee's comment in the article "Gary's actions are responsible for the split. My heart is broken with what Gary's done to me.... " This statement is correct as Gary did initiate the divorce and Dee was very upset about that fact. Gary did not initiate his divorce with Dee as the result of a relationship with the woman mentioned.

Ron Nielson
08-23-2010, 12:27 PM
Noting a couple of questions regarding issues.

Federal Reserve---His views can be seen on his web site at http://ouramericainitiative.com/issues/federal-reserve.html

Immigration---The issue of immigration is far too complex to simply classify an answer as either a "open" border or a "closed" border solution. This over simplification is creating more of a problem in finding a true answer. I would not classify Gary Johnson as a "open" border guy....unless you are referring to keeping the border open to legal immigration. He recognizes the problems that illegal immigration is causing in this country and as a border Governor ----has dealt with these concerns first hand.

We need to find solutions that have a high return on investment. Just building a wall and enforcing its presence with troops not only will cost a fortune but it does not deal with the full picture----it ignores the market place and the economic reasons of why people come to the U. S. To start that discussion we need to be able to document those that are coming into the country.....and not allow illegals to be employed. Security measures do not deal with the market place problem......we need a more comprehensive plan.

More information can be found on his web site.......but here is a rough out of his plan.



We need a comprehensive plan that provides a solution that we can afford—something that really works!

United States authorities do need to know who is crossing our borders and be able to prevent criminals from entering the country. However, security measures along the boarders are just not enough —they do not completely solve the immigration problem. We need a comprehensive immigration plan. It is time to implement an immigration policy that allows for better documentation and more easily obtainable permits for temporary guest workers to fill jobs that Americans refuse to take.

Immigration into the United States by ambitious, willing workers and their families is a good thing. Not only is it a historical and energizing part of American culture and experience, it is vital to our economy. These positive benefits should not be sacrificed or reduced in any solution to stop illegal immigration. However, a clear distinction must be made between illegal and legal immigration.

In reality, true and cost-effective border security will only be achieved through a common sense combination of technology, a market-based guest worker program, and a safe, but efficient system for the legal flow of immigrants to and from the United States.

Governor Johnson’s immigration proposal focuses on the following six key points:

1. Establish real and cost-effective border security.
• Continue to encourage and allow legal immigration.
• Support current border deterrents and security measures.

2. Create a temporary guest worker program that makes sense.
• Expand and streamline a market based temporary guest worker program.
• Enact an application and tracking procedure for guest workers, such as an e-verify system. Procedures must be quick, simple and efficient in providing documentation information, and must meet the needs of both employers and willing workers.
• Require guest workers to not only pay income taxes, but also provide proof of adequate health care coverage through insurance, secured savings programs, bonds, or a combination thereof.
• Allow spouses and dependents to enter the U.S. with guest workers, but only with proof of adequate health coverage and subject to the same background checks and health requirements.

3. Impose meaningful enforcement of immigration laws.
• Establish procedures and devote adequate resources that are sufficient to actually identify illegal immigrants and deport them. Implement a “one strike, you’re out” policy toward illegal immigrants with regard to future eligibility for guest worker programs.
• Impose and enforce sanctions and fines for noncompliance with immigration laws by employers that are sufficiently costly, ensuring that the risks simply are not worth the rewards.

4. Enact a reality-based process for current illegal workers to earn legal status.
• Allow a two-year grace period during which illegal immigrants already in the U.S. can come forward, pay any taxes owed, provide proof of consistent employment, pass a criminal background check, and apply for guest worker status.

5. Reduce border crime.
• Address the root cause of most border crime by legalizing marijuana, thereby removing 70% of the current cross-border illegal drug trade and replacing cartel and prohibition-related violence with legal, regulated and nonviolent commerce.

6. Achieve a better working relationship with Mexico.
• Stimulate cross-border investment through a robust, above-board and legal guest worker program.
• Strengthen the Mexican government by dramatically weakening the cartels through the legalization of marijuana.
• Aggressively negotiate mutually beneficial agreements with Mexico regarding such issues as funds transfers, taxation of income earned in the U.S. by guest workers, and deportation and incarceration of Mexican nationals arrested in the United States.

Elwar
08-23-2010, 12:37 PM
Noting a couple of questions regarding issues.


Don't worry about trying to convince people issue by issue. Some people believe so much in a single issue that they try to discredit anyone that doesn't agree with them on that one issue even if they might agree with them on 99% of everything else.

Things like the abortion issue that hasn't had any meaningful legislation in decades, yet candidates are chosen on that single issue as though it somehow matters.

Brian4Liberty
08-23-2010, 01:25 PM
Ron, thanks for providing information. We will not agree on all issues. I would vote for Gary despite disagreeing on one or two issues.

That being said, immigration is the big issue where I will have to disagree. My comments and opinion on elements of disagreement with Gary's position page follow. Not everyone here will agree, of course:



We need a comprehensive plan that provides a solution ...


A "Comprehensive" plan will address the "lures" for immigration. Free health care, welfare, Social Security, and whatever other programs that transfer taxpayer money to new immigrants must be addressed (and eliminated). Anything less is not "comprehensive".



It is time to implement an immigration policy that allows for better documentation and more easily obtainable permits for temporary guest workers to fill jobs that Americans refuse to take.


Jobs Americans refuse to take? Repeating US Chamber of Commerce propaganda? The term "temporary" is often used here, when in reality, there is nothing temporary about it. We all know that there are not jobs Americans won't take, there are jobs that don't pay enough or that Americans can't get.



Immigration into the United States by ambitious, willing workers and their families is a good thing.
• Continue to encourage and allow legal immigration.


Encourage? Right now, in bad economic times, when unemployment and under-employment are high? In times of growth, there is a case for legal immigration. In recession or depression, it doesn't make sense. Increasing the supply of labor when there is already an excess makes matters worse.



4. Enact a reality-based process for current illegal workers to earn legal status.
• Allow a two-year grace period during which illegal immigrants already in the U.S. can come forward, pay any taxes owed, provide proof of consistent employment, pass a criminal background check, and apply for guest worker status.


Aye Carumba! Amnesty?!


This will be a controversial area, there is no doubt.

Brian4Liberty
08-23-2010, 01:33 PM
McCain won the GOP nomination in 2008 while being (at the time, anyway) completely open borders. So while I agree that such a position can be a hurdle, recent history suggests it's not as insurmountable as one might think.


Well, this is the Ron Paul Forum. You won't find anyone here that voted for McShame in the GOP Primary. And even in the General Election, more people here probably voted for Bob Barr or Chuck Baldwin than McAmnesty.

angelatc
08-23-2010, 01:39 PM
Meh. You could have said the same thing about RP in 2008: "His 'isolationist' foreign policy will never win him any GOP primaries." Maybe that's true, but I don't think that means he deserved any less support from us because of it.
.

You didn't ask if we should support him. You wanted to have a serious conversation about the obstacles he'll face.

Apparently you didn't learn anything during the last election cycle. Let me know when you're ready to face reality

klamath
08-23-2010, 02:03 PM
I hope this might shed some light on your concerns--- The article that you have referenced is the only statement that Gary made to the press regarding this issue, of which I am aware. As noted in the article it was a very emotional time for all parties. Dee's comment in the article "Gary's actions are responsible for the split. My heart is broken with what Gary's done to me.... " This statement is correct as Gary did initiate the divorce and Dee was very upset about that fact. Gary did not initiate his divorce with Dee as the result of a relationship with the woman mentioned.

But what you said;
The separation did not involve another women as there was no other women in Gary's life. does not match what was said in the article.

RonPaulFanInGA
08-25-2010, 01:50 AM
Both of them running at the same time would be a frickin' disaster. Talk about a very avoidable mistake. More multi-candidate money bombs duds and in-fighting and blaming each other when a poll shows Ron Paul at 8% and Johnson at 3%.

We're not the "neocons." The pro-war position probably makes up 85% of the vote in a closed Republican primary. They can afford to run a bunch of candidates. The Ron Paul faction isn't big enough to have one candidate siphoning votes and money from another. "A house divided cannot stand;" we need to be a united front I think.

One of Paul/Johnson should run, the other should endonse him ASAP and maybe even make it clear that they're essentially running mates and will be if one wins the nomination.

Ron Paul 2012 for me.


Same with pro-choice views

Johnson's pro-choice of abortion views will sink him in a GOP primary. But I guess no more than Ron Paul's foreign policy does.

Brian4Liberty
08-26-2010, 10:39 AM
Both of them running at the same time would be a frickin' disaster. Talk about a very avoidable mistake. More multi-candidate money bombs duds and in-fighting and blaming each other when a poll shows Ron Paul at 8% and Johnson at 3%.


It would be good to have them both in the debates. You can donate to one, both or neither of them. Or wait until after the first Primary State to donate.