Congressional Research Service: Health reform will create bureacratic nightmare

[Brian Defferding]

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0810/40561.html

Not that this was anything new to us folks here at the RPForums. But I can certainly see the dialog from the left in trying to put blame on the Republicans for not creating a public option or go full-on single payer.

[Stary Hickory]

I think Obamacare will be ruled unconstitutional from the forced to purchase angle and then it will be repealed in 2013 as it was always just a special interest driven, authoritarian, bureaucratic cluster fuck anyways.

The fact is Obamacare cannot remain in place. It will be dismantled one way or another, because the bill itself is insane. Just trying to figure out who wrote the 2000+page bill is a task on it's own. We must really consider the fact that the congressmen and women who voted on this did not know what was in it, the POTUS probably does not know what is in it, the public who supported it does not know what is in the bill......the question that begs to be asked is: Who does know and why did they put it in the bill?

It boggles the mind that the rational public would even let such a thing be considered much less passed. One thing is for sure even from a "will of the tyrannical majority" defense this bill is indefensible because participants in the democratic process had no clue what was in it and still do not understand the bill. Unless the will of the tyrannical majority(and this bill was not popular anyways) just wants special interest groups to write bills and use the government to impose it's will on the masses.

[Brian Defferding]

I think Obamacare will be ruled unconstitutional from the forced to purchase angle

I hate admitting this, but I don't think this will happen. There is no actual mandate to purchase insurance, it's a tax on the uninsured, and taxes is the most basic power of the federal government.

If it was an actual mandate spelled out plainly that insurance was compulsory, I would completely agree with you. But because this is a tax - albeit a incredibly stupid, pompous and mean-spirited one - I think the court challenge will fail.

The only silver lining I can find with Obamacare is maybe insurance will get so expensive that people will stop using insurance, eat the $600-some federal tax they have to pay every year, and just pay their doctors directly with cash for much less than its typical cost.

[Stary Hickory]

I hate admitting this, but I don't think this will happen. There is no actual mandate to purchase insurance, it's a tax on the uninsured, and taxes is the most basic power of the federal government.

If it was an actual mandate spelled out plainly that insurance was compulsory, I would completely agree with you. But because this is a tax - albeit a incredibly stupid, pompous and mean-spirited one - I think the court challenge will fail.

Taxes are not a basic power of the government, and moreover specifically picking who you do and do not tax based on consumer preference is not a constitutional form fo taxation in any case. The bill is unconstitutional on many fronts not JUST the mandate.

The bill was designed to force people into a system they do not want, and to force them to purchase a service that they do not feel the need to have. It was a mandate before it was constitutionally challenged now it is being called a tax. A tax cannot be levied in this manner anyways, there is no constituional authority granting the government the power to tax people punitively for not purchasing a product or service.

I predict a unconstitutional ruling, either that or we might as well just get rid of the Supreme Court altogether, if they will not rule this unconstitutional then there is no act no matter how tyrannical that they will ever rule unconstitutional. I really don't get how you can even attempt to rationalize this using a 16 page document.

[Brian Defferding]

Taxes are not a basic power of the government

Article I, Section 8

The rest of your post, I agree with you on. Most of Obamacare is a blatant violation of the 10th Amendment. But seeing how we still have Medicare and Social Security, which both seemed to be questionably Constitutional yet still in existence, I have a feeling the courts will still feel the tax on the uninsured is legal.

[Stary Hickory]

Article I, Section 8

The rest of your post, I agree with you on. Most of Obamacare is a blatant violation of the 10th Amendment. But seeing how we still have Medicare and Social Security, which both seemed to be questionably Constitutional yet still in existence, I have a feeling the courts will still feel the tax on the uninsured is legal.

They are still different in that they are government services. Also they both serve as examples why unconstitutional legislation and the ensuing bureaucracy are BAD ideas, not just immoral.

The courts do not have to be eternally crooked they are capable of doing the right thing, It does no one any good to excuse their behavior or to expect and tolerate it. We are at a point now where many many Americans are questioning this government and it's refuusal to obey the law while it makes all kinds of laws(unconstituional) that it expects the people to follow. People are beginning to really take a look at the SC and why it is there, and why it will not do the right thing.

The legitimacy of government power is at stake, if the SC does not rule this unconstitutional then we will see this country break up into smaller sections. The US cannot remain united if the rights of the people are not protected. Even hardened statists understand this. I think an unconstitutional ruling is definitely going to happen for the mandate part. If the SC will not honestly stand for justice and the law on this then they may as well be tossed out of the courts, they are nothing more than political pawns much like the Bishops during medieval times when Church+State oppressed the masses.