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Rothbardian Girl
08-09-2010, 09:57 AM
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/38600414/ns/health-kids_and_parenting/



Growing up too soon? Puberty strikes 7-year-old girls
Study in 3 major cities finds precocious puberty rising among 2nd graders
By Linda Carroll
msnbc.com contributor
updated 8/9/2010 8:28:45 AM ET

The changes in Kiera’s body scared her parents. Though the 8-year-old seemed her usual chipper self, she’d started to develop headaches and acne. More alarming to her mom, Sharon, were the budding breasts on Kiera’s thin little chest.

“I thought, she’s too young,” remembers the Pittsburgh mom. “She’s still fearful about sleeping by herself. An 8-year-old just isn’t mature enough to handle this.”

For Kiera, whose last name is being withheld to protect her privacy, it was all so embarrassing. None of her friends seemed to be experiencing what she was. When they asked about the acne and her expanding chest, Kiera was evasive. “I didn’t want to tell them what was going on,” says the Pittsburgh girl, now age 9. “So I had to kind of lie to them.”

When Kiera’s parents took their daughter to the doctor, he assured them that nothing was wrong with the girl. Kiera was simply starting puberty early.

As it turns out, puberty at age 7 or 8 isn’t so unusual these days. A new study, published Monday in the journal Pediatrics, shows that more American girls are maturing earlier and earlier. Typically, U.S. girls hit puberty around age 10 or 11.

Exactly what this shift means for girls isn’t clear yet — either on a group or individual level. But there are budding concerns. For instance, studies have linked an early start to menstruation with an elevated risk of breast cancer. And other research has shown that girls who go through puberty early tend to have lower self-esteem and a poor body image. They are also more likely to engage in risky behaviors which can result in unplanned pregnancies, experts say.

The possible link to breast cancer was what sparked the new study. To take a long-term look at the impact of puberty and other factors on breast cancer, researchers enrolled 1,239 girls between the ages of 6 and 8 from three sites in the U.S.: New York’s East Harlem, the greater Cincinnati metropolitan area and the San Francisco Bay area.

The study revealed a surprisingly large bump in the number of girls going through puberty between the ages of 7 and 8. For example, the researches found that 10 percent of 7-year-old white girls had some breast development as compared to 5 percent in a study published in 1997. Similarly, 23 percent of the 7-year-old black girls had started puberty as compared to 15 percent in the 1997 study.

Nobody’s sure what is driving the declining age of puberty. But the rise in obesity could be at least partly to blame, says the study’s lead author, Dr. Frank Biro, director of adolescent medicine at Cincinnati Children’s Hospital.

That makes a lot of sense to Dr. Luigi Garibaldi, a professor of pediatrics and clinical director of pediatric endocrinology at Children’s Hospital of Pittsburgh at the University of Pittsburgh Medical Center.

Back in the 1700s, girls didn’t start to menstruate till they were 17 or 18, Garibaldi says. That had a lot to do with malnutrition. The assumption is that the steady decline in age since then has to do with more abundant food.

There may be other environmental factors at work, too, says Dr. Stanley Korenman, an endocrinologist at the University of California, Los Angeles.

For example, Korenman says, environmental exposure to estrogens in plastics, chemicals and foods has been going up. “And estrogens do stimulate breast development,” he adds.

Until we know what the cause is, the best way to slow puberty may be to “start living green,” says Biro. “It may help for families eat together and to consume well-balanced diets. Regular physical activity may help, too.”

Another finding from the study may back that concept up. The rate of early puberty was much lower in the San Francisco group: 7 percent among white 7-year-olds from northern California versus 14 percent among Ohioans of the same age. Among black 7-year olds, 27 percent of Californians hit puberty early as compared to 31 percent of the New Yorkers. Northern California’s temperate climate fosters more outdoor activities and the emphasis on healthy foods results in a better diet.

Why all the fuss about early puberty?

Beyond the possible breast cancer connection, there’s also the issue of emotional maturity, Biro says. “Just because a girl has matured physically, doesn’t mean she’s socially or psychologically mature,” he explains.

There’s also the issue of stature. There are some studies, Biro says, that show that kids who mature early don’t grow as tall.

As part of her work-up, Kiera had a bone exam. Doctors concluded that at age 8 she had the bone development of a 10 year old, which meant her growth might be stunted.

For Kiera and her family, the answer was simple: slow puberty down. She now has an implant placed under the skin of her upper arm that doles out regular doses of a drug that blocks the spiking hormones that were taking her into early sexual maturity.

Kiera was happy to see her breasts stop budding and to once again feel like she fits in with all her friends. These days she says she’d be perfectly happy if those breasts didn’t start to swell again till she was 16.

My commentary:

Yep, it's an article from MSNBC, but I still found it interesting. Sounds like too many hormones going into food to me - just another good reason to be wary of cheap, overly processed junk. As for a little personal story, I am only 17 years old and I remember noticing this trend in early middle school. (And yes, I did start puberty earlier than normal, though not THAT young, if that's not too much personal info. This story was pretty shocking to me.)

MelissaWV
08-09-2010, 09:59 AM
The article is worrisome on several fronts. I do believe hormones and other additives in food have something to do with it, but we also have to be wary of medicating something like this. Some people develop early. Putting a developing body on hormone therapies or patches or implants of that sort is a dangerous thing to start.

I started to mature pretty early, then there was nothing for awhile. Then I sprang up to be 5'10". Trends are great, but they don't necessarily take the place of actual observations about the individual.

Brian4Liberty
08-09-2010, 10:11 AM
There may be other environmental factors at work, too, says Dr. Stanley Korenman, an endocrinologist at the University of California, Los Angeles.

For example, Korenman says, environmental exposure to estrogens in plastics, chemicals and foods has been going up. “And estrogens do stimulate breast development,” he adds.

Until we know what the cause is, the best way to slow puberty may be to “start living green,” says Biro. “It may help for families eat together and to consume well-balanced diets. Regular physical activity may help, too.”

You can't avoid it when the entire ecosystem is flooded with chemicals that mimic estrogens, especially plastics.

Danke
08-09-2010, 10:13 AM
I've noticed this.

amy31416
08-09-2010, 10:21 AM
I've noticed this.

Quite observant of you....

noxagol
08-09-2010, 10:24 AM
This happened to me, though I started at like age 6 or 7. I am male. I remember having sexual urges when I was as young as 5. I also grew 9 inches in 3 months, NOT FUN. I was 5'1" coming out of 5th grade, 11 years old, and going into 6th grade I was 5'10". NOT FUN. I couldn't walk for more than a minute before my knees started to really ache.

specsaregood
08-09-2010, 10:26 AM
The study revealed a surprisingly large bump in the number of girls going through puberty between the ages of 7 and 8. For example, the researches found that 10 percent of 7-year-old white girls had some breast development as compared to 5 percent in a study published in 1997.

^hopefully, pun not intended.

Noob
08-09-2010, 04:06 PM
Fury in China as female babies grow breasts after drinking milk laced with hormones

Female babies in China have grown breasts after they were given milk laced with hormones.
The horrifying scenes have caused uproar among parents in central China, who fear that the milk powder they used had led to the premature developments.

The official China Daily newspaper reported today that medical tests indicated that the level of hormones in three 'test case' girls, ranging in age from four months to 15 months, exceeded those found in the average adult woman.
All the babies


'The amount of hormones in the babies definitely means there's a problem,' said Mr Yang Qin, chief physician in the child care department at the Hubei Maternity and Children's Hospital.
He urged parents to stop using the formula and insisted that the milk powder be subjected to chemical analysis.

But his suggestion has come up against red tape. Local food safety authorities have refused one mother's request to investigate the formula, made by the Synutra company, claiming they do not conduct tests when requested by consumers.

According to the Global Times newspaper the suspect baby formula is still being sold in the Hubei provincial capital, Wuhan, at discounted prices and is also on store shelves in Beijing.
Synutra insisted that its products were safe, claiming that 'no man-made hormones or any illegal substances were added during the production of the milk powder'.

As experts tried to pin down the source of the hormones that resulted in babies growing breasts, a dairy association said the hormones could have entered the food chain whenfarmers reared the cattle.

'Since a regulation forbidding the use of hormones to cultivate livestock has yet to be drawn up in China, it would be lying to say nobody uses it,' said Mr Wang Dingmian, the former chairman of the dairy association in the southern province of Guangdong.

Two years ago Chinese dairy products were recalled worldwide after it was revealed that melamine, used to make plastics, was widely and illegally added to the products to give the appearance of higher protein.At least six infants died and 300,000 others fell sick

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1301515/Female-babies-China-grow-breasts-drinking-milk-laced-hormones.html#ixzz0w9IUqr2P

dannno
08-09-2010, 04:14 PM
I've actually been arguing this for years, but most people seem to think it's ok to have hormones in the milk. Girls mature a little younger, so what? Well, the article posted by Noob above kinda smacks you in the face.

AlterEgo
08-09-2010, 04:16 PM
I remember having sexual urges when I was as young as 5. i never remember being without them

AlterEgo
08-09-2010, 04:16 PM
Fury in China as female babies grow breasts after drinking milk laced with hormones

Female babies in China have grown breasts after they were given milk laced with hormones.in china how can anyone tell?

nate895
08-09-2010, 04:17 PM
And boys have been going through puberty later...

The food supply is laced with estrogen. I read somewhere that if you give a child soy milk, it is like giving them five birth control pills a day. This is one reason for the feminization of Western Society. The bad mental effects can be overcome by properly raising a child, but the horrible physical effects cannot be overcome without treatment, which in and of itself is not a good road to hoe. At least the food that is causing this can be processed safely, but pure hormones can cause all sorts of craziness to go on in the body.

dannno
08-09-2010, 04:19 PM
And boys have been going through puberty later...

The food supply is laced with estrogen. I read somewhere that if you give a child soy milk, it is like giving them five birth control pills a day. This is one reason for the feminization of Western Society. The bad mental effects can be overcome by properly raising a child, but the horrible physical effects cannot be overcome without treatment, which in and of itself is not a good road to hoe. At least the food that is causing this can be processed safely, but pure hormones can cause all sorts of craziness to go on in the body.

Stop blaming it on the god damn soy bean. What did it ever do to you?!

nate895
08-09-2010, 04:22 PM
Stop blaming it on the god damn soy bean. What did it ever do to you?!

I was a soy baby because my family has a weird condition where about half of us are lactose intolerant for the first couple years of our life, and then it is perfectly fine to consume. However, milk tastes nasty if you do not drink it over the first couple of years and acquire a taste for it. I cannot even stand the smell of milk; it always smells rotten to me.

Noob
08-09-2010, 04:31 PM
I was a soy baby because my family has a weird condition where about half of us are lactose intolerant for the first couple years of our life, and then it is perfectly fine to consume. However, milk tastes nasty if you do not drink it over the first couple of years and acquire a taste for it. I cannot even stand the smell of milk; it always smells rotten to me.
I like chocolate milk, I can easy drink a gallon of it in a day.

nate895
08-09-2010, 04:36 PM
I like chocolate milk, I can easy drink a gallon of it in a day.

Chocolate milk is a 50/50 for me. It depends on how much it tastes like milk as to whether I like it or not. It is only plain old milk I do not like. If milk is only an ingredient that is used to bring out flavor or make something more creamy, then I am fine. Also, other dairy products are fine. Actually, I am probably one of the few people who have actually had their doctor recommend them eat lots of ice cream (for the purpose of getting calcium in my case).

heavenlyboy34
08-09-2010, 04:45 PM
Stop blaming it on the god damn soy bean. What did it ever do to you?!

The soy bean is in fact a problem for males. Women can enjoy it freely.

nate895
08-09-2010, 04:52 PM
Savage is talking about this right now, and he is a Ph.D in botany and is into natural cures for diseases. I do not agree with him on everything, but he does have a lot of good health advice and is pretty entertaining.

KCIndy
08-09-2010, 04:54 PM
Stop blaming it on the god damn soy bean. What did it ever do to you?!


Sounds to me like it's still pretty heavily debated as to whether soy products contain enough isoflavones (plant estrogens) to cause any real harm:

http://vegetarian.lovetoknow.com/Soy_Milk_Estrogen

Probably best for everyone to read up on the subject and make their own best informed decision.

Kotin
08-09-2010, 05:06 PM
I was a soy baby because my family has a weird condition where about half of us are lactose intolerant for the first couple years of our life, and then it is perfectly fine to consume. However, milk tastes nasty if you do not drink it over the first couple of years and acquire a taste for it. I cannot even stand the smell of milk; it always smells rotten to me.

weird man, me too.. my family is like that for the first couple years and I also hate milk with a passion.. I drink hemp milk and rice milk..

nate895
08-09-2010, 05:15 PM
weird man, me too.. my family is like that for the first couple years and I also hate milk with a passion.. I drink hemp milk and rice milk..

Yeah, I assume the milk substitutes would be better than dairy milk, but I just avoid in general because I do not like the idea of most of the substitutes. I generally do not like the idea of substitute products in general.

dannno
08-09-2010, 05:28 PM
I was a soy baby because my family has a weird condition where about half of us are lactose intolerant for the first couple years of our life, and then it is perfectly fine to consume. However, milk tastes nasty if you do not drink it over the first couple of years and acquire a taste for it. I cannot even stand the smell of milk; it always smells rotten to me.

No way, I drank milk from the day i was born every day until i left home when I was 18...

The reason milk smells and tastes funny is because there is blood and puss in the milk you are drinking. Get organic milk, it's waaaaay better.. I used to BEG my mom to buy organic milk like my friend's mom had because it never smelled weird and tasted waayy better than the crap we got.. then when I got older I found out that I was drinking milk with blood and puss in it the whole time, I was pretty pissed.

dannno
08-09-2010, 05:30 PM
Yeah, I assume the milk substitutes would be better than dairy milk, but I just avoid in general because I do not like the idea of most of the substitutes. I generally do not like the idea of substitute products in general.

Why the hell do you associate soy juice, hemp juice, almond juice and rice juice with being a "substitute"?!? Is tomato juice and carrot juice and orange juice a substitute for something, or are they simply healthy things to drink??

These are all perfectly natural things to consume!! The fact that your brain associates these things as a "substitute" for milk is ridiculous. Since when are humans REQUIRED to drink dairy?!

dannno
08-09-2010, 05:32 PM
The soy bean is in fact a problem for males. Women can enjoy it freely.

According to which bullshit studies, paid for by the dairy industry, that is doing the EXACT SAME DAMN THING you are claiming but ON A MUCH WORSE SCALE?! :rolleyes:

Stop reading god damn propaganda by the dairy industry about soy beans. They are perfectly healthy and a complete protein.

nate895
08-09-2010, 05:34 PM
No way, I drank milk from the day i was born every day until i left home when I was 18...

The reason milk smells and tastes funny is because there is blood and puss in the milk you are drinking. Get organic milk, it's waaaaay better.. I used to BEG my mom to buy organic milk like my friend's mom had because it never smelled weird and tasted waayy better than the crap we got.. then when I got older I found out that I was drinking milk with blood and puss in it the whole time, I was pretty pissed.

I have had that too, and it still is funky. My doctor back in the day said that you have to drink milk regularly during the first couple years of your life in order to like the taste, otherwise it will simply not taste good.

dannno
08-09-2010, 05:37 PM
Sounds to me like it's still pretty heavily debated as to whether soy products contain enough isoflavones (plant estrogens) to cause any real harm:

http://vegetarian.lovetoknow.com/Soy_Milk_Estrogen

Probably best for everyone to read up on the subject and make their own best informed decision.

I'm not advocating that everybody eat nothing but soy beans all day.. I know I don't, but that doesn't mean eating a reasonable amount of soy beans is going to do anything bad, not to mention you can eat them in the form of tofu which is fermented and does not cause those issues..

but here we are talking about studies that show that DAIRY and PLASTICS cause these problems, and people are trying to pin these issues on soy beans which are perfectly healthy in normal quantities, and then there are people who completely avoid soy beans when it is completely unnecessary. It is a very healthful food and avoiding soy beans is completely irrational.

nate895
08-09-2010, 05:39 PM
According to which bullshit studies, paid for by the dairy industry, that is doing the EXACT SAME DAMN THING you are claiming but ON A MUCH WORSE SCALE?! :rolleyes:

Stop reading god damn propaganda by the dairy industry about soy beans. They are perfectly healthy and a complete protein.

It is not the soy bean itself that is the problem, it is the overload of it in all of our food products. Anything can become a poison if you have too much of it, and that is the problem. It is fine in Asia because it is a small portion segment of their food supply, but it is a much larger part of our food supply due to its ubiquitous presence in preservatives. Some people can tolerate it (like me), but others cannot.

Natalie
08-09-2010, 05:41 PM
I was a soy baby because my family has a weird condition where about half of us are lactose intolerant for the first couple years of our life, and then it is perfectly fine to consume. However, milk tastes nasty if you do not drink it over the first couple of years and acquire a taste for it. I cannot even stand the smell of milk; it always smells rotten to me.

I have been drinking soy milk for five years, and now if I drink cow milk I think it tastes sour.

dannno
08-09-2010, 05:41 PM
I have had that too, and it still is funky. My doctor back in the day said that you have to drink milk regularly during the first couple years of your life in order to like the taste, otherwise it will simply not taste good.

Well I'm just saying that I grew up drinking milk and it smells and tastes funny to me as well.. but when it smelled the most and tasted the worst was when there was blood and puss in the milk.. and it was like that often.. but never with the Horizon milk and my friend's house.. of course that was 17 years ago, now I don't drink milk at all really.. though i'll use it in recipes and stuff. I also tried some raw milk recently.. pretty crazy, a bit different than regular milk.. but apparently it is waaay more healthy..

dannno
08-09-2010, 05:50 PM
It is not the soy bean itself that is the problem, it is the overload of it in all of our food products. Anything can become a poison if you have too much of it, and that is the problem. It is fine in Asia because it is a small portion segment of their food supply, but it is a much larger part of our food supply due to its ubiquitous presence in preservatives. Some people can tolerate it (like me), but others cannot.

How can you blame a soy bean for being transformed into preservatives :confused:

Haven't you ever had edamame? Tofu? Why are we focusing on things like soy lecithin and partially hydrogenated soybean oil and blaming that on a simple bean? People are telling me not to drink soy milk and eat soy beans because other people are negatively affected by preservatives made from soy beans :confused:

If they could take pinto beans and put it through some chemical process and extract some chemical weapon from that, it doesn't necessarily mean pinto beans are bad to eat.

amy31416
08-09-2010, 05:54 PM
Isn't there a small amount of blood and pus in breast milk?

nate895
08-09-2010, 05:55 PM
How can you blame a soy bean for being transformed into preservatives :confused:

Haven't you ever had edamame? Tofu? Why are we focusing on things like soy lecithin and partially hydrogenated soybean oil and blaming that on a simple bean? People are telling me not to drink soy milk and eat soy beans because other people are negatively affected by preservatives made from soy beans :confused:

If they could take pinto beans and put it through some chemical process and extract some chemical weapon from that, it doesn't necessarily mean pinto beans are bad to eat.

When did I blame the soy bean for anything? That would be the fallacy of reification. I am just saying that too much soy can lead to problems, no matter how it is consumed, but generally processed foods are worse than non-processed foods as far as the mal-effects of nutrient overloads. I could really care less if you have an overload of soy myself, I am simply saying it can lead to hormone imbalances if you have an overload of it.

Number19
08-09-2010, 06:23 PM
There was an article about this in this mornings Houston Chronicle, a rather lengthy one, in fact, with the same scary headline. About 1/4 of the way through they had one short sentence stating that clinically, puberty is defined as the age for menarche. Then at the very end - the last short sentence - they said the average age for menarche had not changed and was still 12-13.

A minor point of accuracy, maybe. But it is the onset of puberty which, so far, has been occurring earlier, not actually, puberty.

YumYum
08-09-2010, 09:28 PM
Isn't there a small amount of blood and pus in breast milk?

Yes. Mother's milk is loaded with white blood cells also.

Danke
08-10-2010, 08:27 AM
Isn't there a small amount of blood and pus in breast milk?

Yes.

amy31416
08-10-2010, 08:37 AM
Yes. Mother's milk is loaded with white blood cells also.


Yes.

Thought so...yummy!

I doubt there's any reasonable way to avoid that in milk from a cow, organic or not.

Working Poor
08-10-2010, 09:02 AM
Exactly what this shift means for girls isn’t clear yet —
It means they are putting too much growth hormone in meats and milk and too many parents don't realize it is diet related.

MelissaWV
08-10-2010, 09:05 AM
It means they are putting too much growth hormone in meats and milk and too many parents don't realize it is diet related.

I think they mean as far as consequences. Will the unwanted attention interfere with schooling? Will these hormone changes affect fertility rates (it'll be hard to tell, since obesity can also have an impact on fertility)? Will there be more "statutory rape" problems, given that the pool of physically mature yet underaged girls is going to grow? Will teen pregnancy go up? Will self esteem issues manifest in new ways? Will flat-chested girls become more sought-after since they are the exception (think like the 80s trend of really skinny/fit jazzercize type women)?

Romulus
08-10-2010, 10:01 AM
It means they are putting too much growth hormone in meats and milk and too many parents don't realize it is diet related.

My thoughts too.. alot of meats are pumped full of hormones as well. I would guess that its completely diet related too.

pcosmar
08-10-2010, 11:12 AM
I think they mean as far as consequences. Will the unwanted attention interfere with schooling? Will these hormone changes affect fertility rates (it'll be hard to tell, since obesity can also have an impact on fertility)? Will there be more "statutory rape" problems, given that the pool of physically mature yet underaged girls is going to grow? Will teen pregnancy go up? Will self esteem issues manifest in new ways? Will flat-chested girls become more sought-after since they are the exception (think like the 80s trend of really skinny/fit jazzercize type women)?

Wow
and my wife says I over analyze. :p

MelissaWV
08-10-2010, 11:15 AM
Wow
and my wife says I over analyze. :p

lol I'm all about figuring out all the possibilities even loosely linked to something. I just usually dismiss most things out of hand as being too remote, unlikely, or unprovable. I'm sure there'll be consequences to all of this down the line, and plenty of opportunity for Government to "help," too.

SkyPie
08-10-2010, 02:26 PM
"For Kiera and her family, the answer was simple: slow puberty down. She now has an implant placed under the skin of her upper arm that doles out regular doses of a drug that blocks the spiking hormones that were taking her into early sexual maturity."

In my opinion this is the biggest problem with this subject/story. You don't solve artificially created problems with more of the same. Poor kid.

SkyPie
08-10-2010, 02:30 PM
It means they are putting too much growth hormone in meats and milk and too many parents don't realize it is diet related.

Doctors don't help. By and large they are truly ignorant. Dangerous, too, because they mandate that you follow their ignorant and dangerous protocol.

They will do more damage to these girls by intervening mark my words. Free society my foot.

MelissaWV
08-10-2010, 04:04 PM
"For Kiera and her family, the answer was simple: slow puberty down. She now has an implant placed under the skin of her upper arm that doles out regular doses of a drug that blocks the spiking hormones that were taking her into early sexual maturity."

In my opinion this is the biggest problem with this subject/story. You don't solve artificially created problems with more of the same. Poor kid.

I agree, as I said earlier. They are treating a perceived hormone imbalance by introducing additional hormones, drugs, and other chemicals into her body before it has matured. If this catches on, it could be the new wave of overprescribed therapies/medications.

M House
08-10-2010, 04:54 PM
Huh, I don't know there's always been ALOT of medical voodoo involving women. I'm sure any women who's visited a OB GYN and had a extensive pelvic examination can tell you this. No way in hell you can tell the position of a cervix by sticking a finger in her butt.

SkyPie
08-10-2010, 06:06 PM
I don't go to doctors. I'll just die as nature intended.

dannno
08-10-2010, 06:08 PM
I don't go to doctors. I'll just die as nature intended.

Well Doctors ARE technically nature, they are just people.. but I understand your frustration and distrust of current medical establishment we have.

SkyPie
08-11-2010, 04:50 PM
^ I am saying I believe in survival of the fittest.

silentshout
08-14-2010, 01:22 AM
I was a soy baby because my family has a weird condition where about half of us are lactose intolerant for the first couple years of our life, and then it is perfectly fine to consume. However, milk tastes nasty if you do not drink it over the first couple of years and acquire a taste for it. I cannot even stand the smell of milk; it always smells rotten to me.

Same here..although I also couldn't tolerate soy milk or even goat's milk. I can drink soy now, but it has to be the vanilla type. I cannot stand the smell of milk..I guess this is why.

WaltM
08-14-2010, 01:47 AM
should we adjust age of consent laws accordingly?

Number19
08-14-2010, 10:28 AM
should we adjust age of consent laws accordingly?Who is this Mr. We and why should this person have the power to dictate personal relationships?

Icymudpuppy
08-14-2010, 12:31 PM
Chocolate milk is a 50/50 for me. It depends on how much it tastes like milk as to whether I like it or not. It is only plain old milk I do not like. If milk is only an ingredient that is used to bring out flavor or make something more creamy, then I am fine. Also, other dairy products are fine. Actually, I am probably one of the few people who have actually had their doctor recommend them eat lots of ice cream (for the purpose of getting calcium in my case).

Egg shells would be more effective. They don't have any flavor at all, and are loaded with Calcium.. Like eating TUMS.