poll: Do you support mandatory ROTC

[cindy25]

http://medrelatedstudents.blogspot.com/2010/08/return-of-mandatory-rotc-in-philippine.html


no need to register, and students will appreciate your no votes

[Vessol]

I don't see a poll on the site..

[ChaosControl]

other pro-rotc arguments:
"it's nice to observe male students having their hair cut short."
lol

[James Madison]

" Since the ROTC was not made mandatory, the number of people aspiring to be soldiers decreased."

And this is bad why?

[Golding]

Nope. Had a related discussion a year ago with one of my colleagues who was a military vet. He was very big on the idea of compulsory service, on the (loosely paraphrased) basis that undisciplined, uninformed, and apathetic masses would largely benefit from it. I made the point that it's counterproductive to the intended point of the military, to actually protect individuals and their freedom (independent of how much the military is being misused right now). I also mentioned that I'd have no problem giving time to the military if I actually believed in the major activities they're involved in. But I choose to keep out of it in protest -- I refuse to have to potentially take any part in what's the US is doing to the Middle East. I'm under the impression that he accepted that.

Some might want to take that point of view even further to extend to military activity in general. It's their right to refuse any kind of service. Army numbers may dwindle, but that says more about the missions than anything else.

[pcosmar]

No, not mandatory.
And when I was in ROTC I wore my hair long.

[Danke]

"Return of mandatory ROTC in Philippine schools: Are you in favor?"

Philippines? Should we be voting in this?

[cindy25]

yes, because people should stand for freedom everywhere. I have voted in polls in many countries, but esp important with regard to UK, Canada, and the Philippines. If a draft was passed in any of those countries passed you can bet the pro-draft Rangels would use it as an excuse. as they do now with Israel.

and it should not be restricted to conscription. Lower taxes in one country, bank secrecy in another etc are good things.

[oyarde]

I really have no opinion on schools in the Phillipines.If I were a citizen of the Phillipines , given the amount of terror groups that operate there ( Abu Sayyef , communist New Peoples Army etc.), I may be in favor of this if it appeared that it may improve the long term security

[RileyE104]

I really have no opinion on schools in the Phillipines.If I were a citizen of the Phillipines , given the amount of terror groups that operate there ( Abu Sayyef , communist New Peoples Army etc.), I may be in favor of this if it appeared that it may improve the long term security

Our government could use that same argument...

"We are in favor of re-instating the draft because it might help improve long term security."

[oyarde]

It is common throughout the world.I doubt it would be popular in the US. Since Nam,The new all volunteer Army has been a success.

[Promontorium]

This is about the Philipines. They have issues that I honestly don't know much about. Maybe they need everyone in ROTC because of the roving death squads. It might be like teaching kids not to cross the street without looking here.

[RileyE104]

It is common throughout the world.I doubt it would be popular in the US. Since Nam,The new all volunteer Army has been a success.


That's your excuse for not caring about tyranny throughout the world?
That it's common?

I can see you recently joined these forums just one month ago...
You obviously have a lot to learn.
I don't mean to come off as rude but why are you on RPF and trying to defend conscription (no matter where it be) at the same time?

[oyarde]

Our government could use that same argument...

"We are in favor of re-instating the draft because it might help improve long term security."

I could be wrong , but I think it would take WW3 before you could get enough votes to pass that in the US.The countries that I have been in that do have it have a long history of it and it seems to work for them.They are not equivelent though, to our all volunteer Army.

[oyarde]

That's your excuse for not caring about tyranny throughout the world?
That it's common?

I can see you recently joined these forums just one month ago...
You obviously have a lot to learn.
I don't mean to come off as rude but why are you on RPF and trying to defend conscription (no matter where it be) at the same time?

I am not sure I would consider it tyranny if you have a country that has conditions that make it a neccessity. I have never given it much thought.I am probably not qualified to make that determination.I come from a long history of service.I completely understand why a person would oppose it.I am not defending it.Just trying to get some facts out.You should probably check out what kind of groups the Phillipino's have to defend themselves from.I always have things to learn.Work at it every day.

[pcosmar]

I could be wrong , but I think it would take WW3 before you could get enough votes to pass that in the US.The countries that I have been in that do have it have a long history of it and it seems to work for them.They are not equivelent though, to our all volunteer Army.

Votes??
It will be imposed,, and backed up with men with guns.
as it has ever been
:(

[oyarde]

Votes??
It will be imposed,, and backed up with men with guns.
as it has ever been
:(

You do not think it would be required to go through Congress ?

[oyarde]

This is when the draft riots broke out in New York City during the civil war.I have never seen an accurate accounting of the dead.The lowest estimate was 120 civilians killed and 2000 injured.

[pcosmar]

You do not think it would be required to go through Congress ?

:confused:
Health care
Bailouts
FEMA
etc.etc.

Imposed.
:mad:

[oyarde]

:confused:
Health care
Bailouts
FEMA
etc.etc.

Imposed.
:mad:

Since you put it that way, possible.I would imagine the same percentage of Americans would be against it as were against the healh bill.

[oyarde]

In the Phillipines , I believe the ROTC was just during high school.

[Vessol]

I could be wrong , but I think it would take WW3 before you could get enough votes to pass that in the US.The countries that I have been in that do have it have a long history of it and it seems to work for them.They are not equivelent though, to our all volunteer Army.

Just because it "seems to work for them" does not mean the involuntary servitude is morally correct.

[oyarde]

Just because it "seems to work for them" does not mean the involuntary servitude is morally correct.

From the safety of my chair , I will likely not determine what may be "morally correct" in the Phillipines. I am thinking that maybe everyone does not realize what they are up against. The Southern Philipines is not safe.Abu Sayyef is an Islamist terror organization that is being hunted down by US military and CIA now.They are just one of many of these.hey are actually the smallest of the many islamist terror organizations.Then there is the communist New Peoples Army, an armed and dangerous who I know in the 80's numbered close to 30,000 armed fighters.

[oyarde]

Just because it "seems to work for them" does not mean the involuntary servitude is morally correct.

At what point does it get to be morally incorrect for the Philipino's not to take the steps neccessary to defend the citizens ? Something to think about.

[Vessol]

And why did those groups appear in the first place?

Do they just hate the Philippine's government for being free?

Could it be perhaps that the policies of the government there both in the past and present give fuel to these groups?

However in which moral system is the involuntary ownership of a human being ever considered moral?

[Bossobass]

I wholeheartedly, emphatically support


Removal Of the Trash in Congress

As for the military service bullshit, get bent.

Bosso

[oyarde]

And why did those groups appear in the first place?

Do they just hate the Philippine's government for being free?

Could it be perhaps that the policies of the government there both in the past and present give fuel to these groups?

However in which moral system is the involuntary ownership of a human being ever considered moral?

I will give you that , Ownership of a human is not moral.I do not think ROTC kids are owned though.For the record , I do not think these Islamist terror groups or the communist group need any fuel for the fire.You are being too kind in assuming these groups are composed of rational people.A mistake often made.They specialize in kidnapping, murder , ransoms.This is how they raise money.

[pcosmar]

From the safety of my chair , I will likely not determine what may be "morally correct" in the Phillipines. I am thinking that maybe everyone does not realize what they are up against. The Southern Philipines is not safe.Abu Sayyef is an Islamist terror organization that is being hunted down by US military and CIA now.They are just one of many of these.hey are actually the smallest of the many islamist terror organizations.Then there is the communist New Peoples Army, an armed and dangerous who I know in the 80's numbered close to 30,000 armed fighters.

meh
What guarantee, if any, is there that these young people (forcefully) trained in the arts of war will not join those very factions?

[oyarde]

meh
What guarantee, if any, is there that these young people (forcefully) trained in the arts of war will not join those very factions?

I am sre that is something to be considered by the Phillipino Govt. and Military.

[Old Ducker]

In 1970, the ROTC building our our campus was bombed. The ROTC left and didn't come back, at least in my time. I was cool with that.

[pcosmar]

I am sre that is something to be considered by the Phillipino Govt. and Military.

:confused:
Are there less morons there than the Govt. and Military here?

[RileyE104]

I am not sure I would consider it tyranny if you have a country that has conditions that make it a neccessity. I have never given it much thought.I am probably not qualified to make that determination.I come from a long history of service.I completely understand why a person would oppose it.I am not defending it.Just trying to get some facts out.You should probably check out what kind of groups the Phillipino's have to defend themselves from.I always have things to learn.Work at it every day.

If the situation is that serious, what makes you think it would take Government orders to require the people to respond to something that threatens them?

There is NO justification of conscription in my opinion.

If the People themselves don't want to "fight" then how can you justify FORCING THEM to, in essence, defend themselves if that is the case?

Personally I am more cynical to proposing such a policy. Conscription is the tool of an authoritarian Government, period.

[oyarde]

The First Scout Rangers are the Phillipine Army's primary Special Forces unit and they are pretty good.As for the rest of the Govt. and Military, I have no idea.On one aspect , if you have watched our congress in recent times you would like to think anybody was a little more together than they are , but honestly I do not know.

[oyarde]

The First Scout Rangers are the Phillipine Army's primary Special Forces unit and they are pretty good.As for the rest of the Govt. and Military, I have no idea.On one aspect , if you have watched our congress in recent times you would like to think anybody was a little more together than they are , but honestly I do not know.

There is only 5,000 of these guys though.Four Battalions ( twenty companies total)

[oyarde]

If the situation is that serious, what makes you think it would take Government orders to require the people to respond to something that threatens them?

There is NO justification of conscription in my opinion.

If the People themselves don't want to "fight" then how can you justify FORCING THEM to, in essence, defend themselves if that is the case?

Personally I am more cynical to proposing such a policy. Conscription is the tool of an authoritarian Government, period.

I would liken high school Rotc to something more like advanced Boy Scouts than I would as forcing them to fight.As I said before , it is not for me to make this determination.Yes it is that bad and the more they are able to do for themselves to control those problems , the less likely we will be to have our troops and CIA hunting these murderes down.

[oyarde]

I just saw in the news they set off a bomb in the airport trying to kill one of the gov.'s today, killed two , wounded him.