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Jace
08-03-2010, 11:23 PM
$22 million, federally-backed program aims to help outsourcers in South Asia become more fluent in areas like Java programming—and the English language.

By Paul McDougall
InformationWeek
August 3, 2010 01:59 PM

Despite President Obama's pledge to retain more hi-tech jobs in the U.S., a federal agency run by a hand-picked Obama appointee has launched a $22 million program to train workers, including 3,000 specialists in IT and related functions, in South Asia.

Following their training, the tech workers will be placed with outsourcing vendors in the region that provide offshore IT and business services to American companies looking to take advantage of the Asian subcontinent's low labor costs.

Under director Rajiv Shah, the United States Agency for International Development will partner with private outsourcers in Sri Lanka to teach workers there advanced IT skills like Enterprise Java (Java EE) programming, as well as skills in business process outsourcing and call center support. USAID will also help the trainees brush up on their English language proficiency.

"To help fill workforce gaps in BPO and IT, USAID is teaming up with leading BPO and IT/English language training companies to establish professional IT and English skills development training centers," the U.S. Embassy in Colombo, Sri Lanka, said in a statement posted Friday on its Web site.

Continued... (http://www.informationweek.com/news/software/integration/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=226500202&subSection=All+Stories)

specsaregood
08-03-2010, 11:26 PM
And people look at me like I'm crazy when I propose the idea that our elected officials are actively trying to destory the country.

HOLLYWOOD
08-03-2010, 11:31 PM
The people need to put aside their differences created by the duopoly, and all stop pay taxws and starve the beast. This is no representation... then again the people are only needed in November and for their money.

When are Americans going to get it?

Brian4Liberty
08-03-2010, 11:32 PM
Foreign aid.

Jace
08-03-2010, 11:50 PM
Taxpayer money to train the foreign IT workers to do the IT work that Americans won't do -- at least not at South Asian wages.

A little more about Obama's man in charge of disbursing taxpayer money to train workers in the Third World to do the IT work that unemployed American IT workers won't do (for South Asian wages):

Rajiv “Raj” Shah (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rajiv_Shah)(born March 9, 1973) is the current Administrator of USAID under the Obama administration. On November 10, 2009, Shah was nominated as Administrator of the United States Agency for International Development (USAID).[1] He was confirmed by the Senate on December 24, making him the highest-ranking Indian American in any presidential administration.[2] In this capacity, he is the point man in the United States' efforts to provide relief to the earthquake victims in Haiti.

Prior to his appointment at USAID, Shah worked in a range of leadership roles at the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation including Director of Agricultural Development, Director of Financial Services, leader of the Strategic Opportunities initiative and manager of the Foundation’s $1.5 billion commitment to the Vaccine Fund. He also came up with the idea for the International Finance Facility for Immunization to transform the global system of vaccine financing, and worked to secure donor commitments of more than $5 billion for this facility. Before joining the Gates Foundation, Shah was a health care policy advisor on the Al Gore presidential campaign, 2000 and a member of Pennsylvania Governor Ed Rendell's transition committee on health.

President Obama announced Shah’s selection as Under Secretary of Agriculture for Research, Education, and Economics and Chief Scientist on April 17, 2009.[3][4] Shah’s nomination was confirmed by the United States Senate by unanimous consent on May 12, 2009.

michaelwise
08-04-2010, 12:15 AM
$22 million, federally-backed program aims to help outsourcers in South Asia become more fluent in areas like Java programming—and the English language.

Following their training, the tech workers will be placed with outsourcing vendors in the region that provide offshore IT and business services to American companies looking to take advantage of the Asian subcontinent's low labor costs.

Continued... (http://www.informationweek.com/news/software/integration/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=226500202&subSection=All+Stories)

I think it would be cheaper to just send someone over to my house and shoot me in the head. It accomplishes the same thing.

Pericles
08-04-2010, 06:33 AM
I think it would be cheaper to just send someone over to my house and shoot me in the head. It accomplishes the same thing.

Except for the fact that I would shoot back ..........

charrob
08-04-2010, 08:51 AM
this is the kind of article that needs to go viral on the pro-Obama blogs ... and yes i still argue with people constantly who still see him as the next Messiah. :mad:

thanks for posting...

newbitech
08-04-2010, 09:23 AM
Its not like this was Obama's idea to outsource IT. That has been going on since 1999 at least.

And when did programming enterprise Java become a skill used by the support department? HAHA what a joke!


teach workers there advanced IT skills like Enterprise Java (Java EE) programming, as well as skills in business process outsourcing and call center support.

charrob
08-04-2010, 09:37 AM
Its not like this was Obama's idea to outsource IT. That has been going on since 1999 at least.

agreed, but if he was a true man of the people he would have stopped it. Kucinich is the strongest democratic proponent for stopping this shit and has been screaming about it for years.




And when did programming enterprise Java become a skill used by the support department? HAHA what a joke!

isn't that the point...that southeast asia is now no longer just support but also will be building U.S. company systems?

specsaregood
08-04-2010, 10:14 AM
//

newbitech
08-04-2010, 10:40 AM
I have no problem with outsourcing, or even H1B visas (insourcing?) --although in many respects H1B visa workers are treated like indentured servants, which is another matter altogether -- what I DO have a problem with is taking my tax dollars to train somebody to compete with me. That ain't right. If they want to compete, do so on their own merits, don't steal from me in order to subsidize it.

The way I look at it is like this. What does it matter who spends the money to train my competition? Do I think it is OK for micro$oft to take a piece of the money I spent on win7 and spend it to train programmers in Helsinki? No it is not OK for M$ to do that.

So what do I do about it? I do not give them my money to buy that product. So while I agree that spending tax dollars is equally as ridiculous, I also understand that I don't have a choice of how the money I willing give to businesses is spent. What this means to me is that the problem we have with outsourcing jobs and training competition is much larger than a government problem. This is endemic of the social decay in the USA.

Sure, "the government" aka the people who make the laws or corporate lobbying interest are largely responsible for this trend, I still cast the blame on the ignorance of the average American. Its the people who say shit like, well if your job gets outsourced, you can always retrain, go back to school or work at McD's and Walmart.

The most visible area of outsourcing happens in the phone support industry, whether its tech support or banking support doesn't matter. American's tolerate this bullshit instead of sending a clear message that when dealing with an American company demand to speak to an American citizen.

Same thing with manufacturing. When buying common everyday products, refuse to buy common everyday products that are imported. It reminds me of the hidden inflation tax. People think because they spend less FRN's on something that they are saving money or able to buy more of it. The only problem with that way of thinking is that they are paying more for that product in the form of higher wage taxes that are required to keep their unemployed countrymen and women from rioting because they lack the basic necessities.

I find it really hard to just blame one admin or another for what I perceive as a cultural problem. I think sometimes that American's hate American's more than foreigners hate American's. I think our culture here in America has developed an inferiority complex when it comes developing economic and social relationships.

Brian4Liberty
08-04-2010, 10:41 AM
Its not like this was Obama's idea to outsource IT. That has been going on since 1999 at least.

And when did programming enterprise Java become a skill used by the support department? HAHA what a joke!

I think that means they will train both programmers and support people.

specsaregood
08-04-2010, 10:43 AM
So what do I do about it? I do not give them my money to buy that product. So while I agree that spending tax dollars is equally as ridiculous, I also understand that I don't have a choice of how the money I willing give to businesses is spent. What this means to me is that the problem we have with outsourcing jobs and training competition is much larger than a government problem. This is endemic of the social decay in the USA.


There is a key difference between MS spending the money they earn and the GOVT doing it. Of course you are intelligent enough to know what that difference is so I'll refrain from pointing it out.

Although I did notice the coincidence of the Gates-influenced/related appointee spending money to train "java" programmers and C# not being mentioned. :)

charrob
08-04-2010, 10:44 AM
I have no problem with outsourcing, or even H1B visas (insourcing?) --although in many respects H1B visa workers are treated like indentured servants, which is another matter altogether -- what I DO have a problem with is taking my tax dollars to train somebody to compete with me. That ain't right. If they want to compete, do so on their own merits, don't steal from me in order to subsidize it.

ya, that's where my libertarianism goes away. i know there will be arguments but i don't believe a programmer in the U.S. should have to accept and work for the same wage as a programmer in china or india in order to compete. that's just my opinion ...

specsaregood
08-04-2010, 10:49 AM
//

Brian4Liberty
08-04-2010, 10:55 AM
Prior to his appointment at USAID, Shah worked in a range of leadership roles at the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation including Director of Agricultural Development, Director of Financial Services, leader of the Strategic Opportunities initiative and manager of the Foundation’s $1.5 billion commitment to the Vaccine Fund. He also came up with the idea for the International Finance Facility for Immunization to transform the global system of vaccine financing, and worked to secure donor commitments of more than $5 billion for this facility. Before joining the Gates Foundation, Shah was a health care policy advisor on the Al Gore presidential campaign, 2000 and a member of Pennsylvania Governor Ed Rendell's transition committee on health.


So basically he is the expert administrator for the Oligarch's "charities". I.e. redistributing other people's money as they see fit.

newbitech
08-04-2010, 10:56 AM
There is a key difference between MS spending the money they earn and the GOVT doing it. Of course you are intelligent enough to know what that difference is so I'll refrain from pointing it out.

Although I did notice the coincidence of the Gates-influenced/related appointee spending money to train "java" programmers and C# not being mentioned. :)

yes, I see the difference, but I guess when I look deeper into it besides just the headlines, I get the sense that there really is no difference at all.

These corps have a vested interest in selling out American workers. They can't sell enough product to fund this selling out on their own, so they send lobbyist to congress to steal it for them.

I don't think the congress cooked this up on their own. Congress is heavily influence by the big corps, we all know this.

I think we are really suffering from post Viet Nam cultural cringe (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_cringe)

and maybe even a little post 9/11 tall poppy syndrome (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tall_poppy_syndrome)

and maybe a bit of post 2008 collapse crab mentality (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crab_mentality)

charrob
08-04-2010, 10:58 AM
I on the otherhand don't think the fact that I am a US citizen makes me any more special than a programmer outside the US. I'm fully ready to compete with programmers outside the US and I have taken over MANY projects from customers that tried to outsource to india. They come to me frustrated, over-budget, past-due date and regretting their original decision. There are downsides to outsourcing. What I have a problem with is the govt forcibly taking my money and training more competitors. Let their own countries train em.

the problem as i see it is that programmers in india and china live in countries with drastically lower cost of living, so they can work for pennies. on the other hand, programmers in the U.S. could not survive at those wages.

i understand your argument and respect your opinion; i just don't agree with it and think that in many ways this has alot to do with the disappearance of our middle class. ...but that's just my opinion... and realize it's very un-libertarian of me :( .

and, yes, i agree with you re: taxes: it's an outrage the taxpayer is paying for java classes for chinese citizens...

specsaregood
08-04-2010, 11:01 AM
These corps have a vested interest in selling out American workers. They can't sell enough product to fund this selling out on their own, so they send lobbyist to congress to steal it for them.

I don't think the congress cooked this up on their own. Congress is heavily influence by the big corps, we all know this.


Oh, I'm with you 100% in that respect.

Brian4Liberty
08-04-2010, 11:06 AM
I on the otherhand don't think the fact that I am a US citizen makes me any more special than a programmer outside the US. I'm fully ready to compete with programmers outside the US and I have taken over MANY projects from customers that tried to outsource to india. They come to me frustrated, over-budget, past-due date and regretting their original decision. There are downsides to outsourcing. What I have a problem with is the govt forcibly taking my money and training more competitors. Let their own countries train em.

You are correct, most of the time companies screw themselves over big time by outsourcing or importing cheap labor. I have seen the same things as you. I have seen productivity differences of literally 20:1. (i.e. one competent programmer can do the same work as twenty cheap programmers). The irony is that the savings for a "cheaper" programmer was only about 20%. Sure the programmer himself made less than that, but there are usually several middle-men involved in outsourcing and insourcing.

Darwinism and survival of the fittest is a very slow process. Companies will go out of business before they cure their problems or realize that there are better options. Many will bounce back and forth between Indian and Chinese outsourcing, hoping to get better results each time. Penny-wise and pound foolish. Save 20% per person, but never get the work done, or you need 19 extra people to do it.

Jace
08-04-2010, 10:12 PM
You are correct, most of the time companies screw themselves over big time by outsourcing or importing cheap labor. I have seen the same things as you. I have seen productivity differences of literally 20:1. (i.e. one competent programmer can do the same work as twenty cheap programmers). The irony is that the savings for a "cheaper" programmer was only about 20%. Sure the programmer himself made less than that, but there are usually several middle-men involved in outsourcing and insourcing.

Darwinism and survival of the fittest is a very slow process. Companies will go out of business before they cure their problems or realize that there are better options. Many will bounce back and forth between Indian and Chinese outsourcing, hoping to get better results each time. Penny-wise and pound foolish. Save 20% per person, but never get the work done, or you need 19 extra people to do it.

I suppose if we roll over and let this Shah person take from us to give to his own people, then he and his own are the fittest and we Americans deserve what we get.

james1906
08-04-2010, 10:28 PM
I think it would be cheaper to just send someone over to my house and shoot me in the head. It accomplishes the same thing.

Only after being on hold for an hour and repeating your account number to "Mike" twenty times because he doesn't know what "dash" means.

GunnyFreedom
08-04-2010, 10:41 PM
The Obama solution to unemployment due to offshoring? Use taxpayer money to train 3,000 more offshore IT workers...

When I look at the White House today, I have to stop and ask myself, "am I watching a Monte Python skit?"

MN Patriot
08-05-2010, 04:38 AM
The people need to put aside their differences created by the duopoly, and all stop pay taxws and starve the beast. This is no representation... then again the people are only needed in November and for their money.

When are Americans going to get it?

I've been saying this for some time, yet few people consider it. Tea Party / Liberty candidates need to run on a platform of ending the income tax. Propose outlawing payroll withholding of taxes, get people to realize how much they would have to pay out of their own pocket every month.

This whole liberty movement needs to go third party, abandon the Republicans. Invite any libertarian leaning Republicans to join us, or face irrelevancy when our candidates run against them.

ninepointfive
08-05-2010, 05:14 AM
This whole liberty movement needs to go third party, abandon the Republicans. Invite any libertarian leaning Republicans to join us, or face irrelevancy when our candidates run against them.

What do you think of Tom Tancredo running Constitution party for Colorado Governor?

Pericles
08-05-2010, 09:42 AM
the problem as i see it is that programmers in india and china live in countries with drastically lower cost of living, so they can work for pennies. on the other hand, programmers in the U.S. could not survive at those wages.

i understand your argument and respect your opinion; i just don't agree with it and think that in many ways this has alot to do with the disappearance of our middle class. ...but that's just my opinion... and realize it's very un-libertarian of me :( .

and, yes, i agree with you re: taxes: it's an outrage the taxpayer is paying for java classes for chinese citizens...

Everybody that wants to work as a programmer moves to China and India - I see that working well for efficiency in the labor market:rolleyes:

Brian4Liberty
08-05-2010, 11:11 AM
I suppose if we roll over and let this Shah person take from us to give to his own people, then he and his own are the fittest and we Americans deserve what we get.

Yeah, there is some irony in advocating strict survival of the fittest and then not doing things to ensure that you survive. (And in fact advocating your own demise instead.) There's a (Darwinistic) reason that the world is not a happy Utopia...