Matt Collins
08-03-2010, 11:46 AM
A local lover of liberty had the following encounter with a Census worker yesterday:
We were both polite with each other. When she asked me questions, I returned with questions. Kind of a Socratic Method.
Example:
CW: I am from the census, and I was wondering if I could ask you a few que...stions.
ME: Do you have identification?
CW: Shows Census name tag/ corporate badge looking thing.
ME: Would you mind handing me your drivers license so I can compare the names?
CW: I actually just need to ask a few questions so I can fill out this form.
ME: What are your questions?
CW: What is your name?
ME: Am I being detained?
CW: No, I just need to fill out this form.
(odd silence)
CW: Have you live here since.......
ME: What authority do you have to collect this information?
CW: I am from the Census Bureau.
ME: What authority does the Census Bureau have to collect the information on the form you want to fill out?
CW: The government is supposed to count every so many years.
ME: Are you asking for more information than the number of people living here?
CW: Well, I just need to fill out the information on this form -it is the short form.
ME: What authority do you have to collect that information?
CW: Will you tell me how many people live here?
ME: Did you not get the form I sent in? (it had None of Your Business written across it with a sharpie; I wrote smaller on the second one)
CW: They don't tell me that, I am just sent to specific addresses on a list.
ME: Who sends you?
CW: The government?
ME: The government that set out its limitations in a document known as the u.s. Constitution (lower case is on purpose)?
CW: Yes.
ME: Is the u.s. Constitution a contract between the government and others?
CW: Yes, I suppose between the government and "the people".
ME: Who are "the people".
CW: The people living in the united states.
ME: You said it was a contract; do you have evidence of me agreeing to or signing the contract?
CW: No.
ME: If I have not signed a contract, then I am not part of that contract wouldn't you say?
CW: Well, we are all under the "law of the land" (sheepole love that phrase when finding themselves in a corner).
ME: You just claimed that I am part of a contract that I did not agree to. It seems like maybe "contract" is not the correct term. But let's move on. Would you say that at least those calling themselves the government who have sworn an oath to that contract known as the u.s. Constitution are bound by that contract?
CW: Most definitely.
ME: If someone breaches a contract, what happens to the contract?
CW: I guess it is no longer a contract if the two parties cannot fix the breach.
ME: Would you say that those calling themselves the government and having sworn to this contract have remained within the bounds of that contract?
CW: Most would argue that they have not (she seemed to agree on this).
ME: So, it seems there is no more contract at this time. It seems I was never obligated by a contract, and those who were have not followed it. But, let me ask you another question. What do you call a person who threatens physical injury to someone who does not give up money or other property to them?
CW: A criminal.
ME: A thief; someone who steals?
CW: Yes.
ME: So what do you call an organization that threatens physical force against the people living in this geographic area in order to get them to pay up a sum of their property every year so as the organization can give that to others, their pet projects, and even foreign lands?
CW: I think I get your point, and I think there are a lot of people who agree with you.
ME: I hope you have a nice day. If you come back we can talk about this some more. Perhaps next time we can dig deeper and get into just what are justifiable roles for government or groups of individuals.
CW: This has definitely been the most interesting stop I have had. Most people just tell me no and slam the door or answer the questions.
:)
We were both polite with each other. When she asked me questions, I returned with questions. Kind of a Socratic Method.
Example:
CW: I am from the census, and I was wondering if I could ask you a few que...stions.
ME: Do you have identification?
CW: Shows Census name tag/ corporate badge looking thing.
ME: Would you mind handing me your drivers license so I can compare the names?
CW: I actually just need to ask a few questions so I can fill out this form.
ME: What are your questions?
CW: What is your name?
ME: Am I being detained?
CW: No, I just need to fill out this form.
(odd silence)
CW: Have you live here since.......
ME: What authority do you have to collect this information?
CW: I am from the Census Bureau.
ME: What authority does the Census Bureau have to collect the information on the form you want to fill out?
CW: The government is supposed to count every so many years.
ME: Are you asking for more information than the number of people living here?
CW: Well, I just need to fill out the information on this form -it is the short form.
ME: What authority do you have to collect that information?
CW: Will you tell me how many people live here?
ME: Did you not get the form I sent in? (it had None of Your Business written across it with a sharpie; I wrote smaller on the second one)
CW: They don't tell me that, I am just sent to specific addresses on a list.
ME: Who sends you?
CW: The government?
ME: The government that set out its limitations in a document known as the u.s. Constitution (lower case is on purpose)?
CW: Yes.
ME: Is the u.s. Constitution a contract between the government and others?
CW: Yes, I suppose between the government and "the people".
ME: Who are "the people".
CW: The people living in the united states.
ME: You said it was a contract; do you have evidence of me agreeing to or signing the contract?
CW: No.
ME: If I have not signed a contract, then I am not part of that contract wouldn't you say?
CW: Well, we are all under the "law of the land" (sheepole love that phrase when finding themselves in a corner).
ME: You just claimed that I am part of a contract that I did not agree to. It seems like maybe "contract" is not the correct term. But let's move on. Would you say that at least those calling themselves the government who have sworn an oath to that contract known as the u.s. Constitution are bound by that contract?
CW: Most definitely.
ME: If someone breaches a contract, what happens to the contract?
CW: I guess it is no longer a contract if the two parties cannot fix the breach.
ME: Would you say that those calling themselves the government and having sworn to this contract have remained within the bounds of that contract?
CW: Most would argue that they have not (she seemed to agree on this).
ME: So, it seems there is no more contract at this time. It seems I was never obligated by a contract, and those who were have not followed it. But, let me ask you another question. What do you call a person who threatens physical injury to someone who does not give up money or other property to them?
CW: A criminal.
ME: A thief; someone who steals?
CW: Yes.
ME: So what do you call an organization that threatens physical force against the people living in this geographic area in order to get them to pay up a sum of their property every year so as the organization can give that to others, their pet projects, and even foreign lands?
CW: I think I get your point, and I think there are a lot of people who agree with you.
ME: I hope you have a nice day. If you come back we can talk about this some more. Perhaps next time we can dig deeper and get into just what are justifiable roles for government or groups of individuals.
CW: This has definitely been the most interesting stop I have had. Most people just tell me no and slam the door or answer the questions.
:)