Texas: Christians fired for praying

[BlackTerrel]

http://www.onenewsnow.com/Legal/Default.aspx?id=1093132

We're getting closer to the day where Christians will be fired for breathing.


Two employees of the University of Texas at Arlington who prayed over a co-worker's cubicle -- and were subsequently fired -- will have their day in court.

Attorney Jeff Mateer of Liberty Institute tells OneNewsNow that after work hours, the plaintiffs prayed over the cubicle of an employee with whom they had had trouble. After losing their jobs, the workers brought suit under Title VII of the Civil Rights Act, and the first phase of the case has ended in their favor.

"The court recently ruled in favor of the two ex-employees, saying that they could proceed to trial, defeating the university's motion for summary judgment, which would have resulted in the case being dismissed," Mateer reports.

He believes the school will have a tough time proving its case. "The university claimed that by praying for a co-employee, that they were harassing that employee," the Liberty Institute attorney explains. "The university's position has been consistently in this case that praying for a fellow employee constitutes harassment."

Bold is mine.

Video: Christians in Michigan arrested for speaking:

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=255292

[Legend1104]

Piece of crap. All I got to say.

[kpitcher]

They should follow their own religious advice. Matthew 6:6 But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.

With over 200 recognized religions in the US there's a lot of room for people to cause trouble by not respecting others, in the name of their religion. If a few church of satanism members who prayed over a co-workers cubicle got fired, would that get you riled up too?

[reillym]

More anti-secular propaganda. The christian taliban members were spewing hate speech.

http://blogs.chron.com/bluebayou/2006/12/demon_hunter_oppression.html


In an e-mail to supervisors, the male co-worker said he was invited to witness the praying and cleansing but became uncomfortable when Shatkin began to chant loudly and rub perfumed oil on the absent co-worker's cubicle wall.

The man quoted Shatkin as praying, "You vicious evil dogs. Get the hell out of here in the name of Jesus. ... I command you to leave."

Demons? Evil dogs? Thanks, religion, for my daily laugh!

[youngbuck]

I've said time and again, all this demonization of Muslims is just a beta test, a precursor, for when it is to be done to Christians.

[nate895]

I've said time and again, all this demonization of Muslims is just a beta test, a precursor, for when it is to be done to Christians.

That's a retarded idea, even from a secular point-of-view. "Hey, in order to test how our population will react when we start insulting the religion of their heritage, let's see how they react when we insult a religion that half of our population does not even personally know a follower."

[BlackTerrel]

More anti-secular propaganda. The christian taliban members were spewing hate speech.

http://blogs.chron.com/bluebayou/2006/12/demon_hunter_oppression.html



Demons? Evil dogs? Thanks, religion, for my daily laugh!

Hate speech against who? Demons?

They prayed after hours at a cubicle. That's all it takes to get fired?

[youngbuck]

That's a retarded idea, even from a secular point-of-view. "Hey, in order to test how our population will react when we start insulting the religion of their heritage, let's see how they react when we insult a religion that half of our population does not even personally know a follower."

That's a retarded straw man argument, good job.

[nate895]

That's a retarded straw man argument, good job.

How is it a straw man?

[Liberty Star]

Powerful Texas Christians of CUFI are tied up in DC these days, soon they'll be back in Texas and take care of business. Nothing to worry.

http://www.christianpost.com/article/20100724/thousands-of-christian-zionists-gather-to-support-israel/

[Reason]

I would be pretty pissed if some coworkers were coming over to my cubicle and praying...

Keep that shit at home/to yourself kkthx

[silentshout]

I would be pretty pissed if some coworkers were coming over to my cubicle and praying...

Keep that shit at home/to yourself kkthx

I agree.

[RM918]

What the hell actually happened here? Did they go up to the guy's cubicle while he was still IN it and started going, "O' Lord, I pray for this man to stop being a douchebag..." If that is the case, religion or not that's still harassment.

From what little more I was able to figure out, they did it after-hours and it was something about casting out 'demons'. Yeah, accusing a co-worker of being infested with demons and throwing stuff on their cubicle without their consent is definitely harassment. If they were fired for, say, praying for someone's well-being after they got in an accident I'd be up in arms, but they overstepped their bounds here.

[TNforPaul45]

I've said time and again, all this demonization of Muslims is just a beta test, a precursor, for when it is to be done to Christians.

This.

Blimp!

[TNforPaul45]

That's a retarded idea, even from a secular point-of-view. "Hey, in order to test how our population will react when we start insulting the religion of their heritage, let's see how they react when we insult a religion that half of our population does not even personally know a follower."

When they came for the Jews, I did Nothing.
When they came for the Catholics, I did Nothing.
When they came for the Hindus, I did Nothing.
When they came for the Muslims, I did Nothing.
When they finally came for me, a Christian, I cried out for help, but there was no one left sympathetic to my plea.


In other words, everything is done in increments. Never dismiss the fact that what may be illogical to you is perfectly reasonable to the insane power holders who run this country.

[MelissaWV]

What the hell actually happened here? Did they go up to the guy's cubicle while he was still IN it and started going, "O' Lord, I pray for this man to stop being a douchebag..." If that is the case, religion or not that's still harassment.

From what little more I was able to figure out, they did it after-hours and it was something about casting out 'demons'. Yeah, accusing a co-worker of being infested with demons and throwing stuff on their cubicle without their consent is definitely harassment. If they were fired for, say, praying for someone's well-being after they got in an accident I'd be up in arms, but they overstepped their bounds here.

This. I'm Christian and have had people come over and "pray" at my cubicle before. Even if it's after hours, that's not what my work area is for. If you want to have all those angels and scriptures and whatever in your cubicle, and pray from over there, cool. Go ahead. As long as you're not being disruptive and loud, you can do whatever the boss says is okay. Once you enter my personal space and, presumably, my personal belongings... let's keep the "casting out of demons" out of my space.

How about if they weren't praying? How about if they just came over and had a conversation loudly (even if the person wasn't there) like: "MAN this guy is a TOTAL DOUCHEBAG! I wish he would just QUIT or at least REMOVE THE STICK UP HIS ASS!" and moving the guy's stuff around on his desk? Would you consider that a bit rude?

Ultimately, though, it's not up to you to consider rude or not as far as the question of employment. In an ideal world, Christians COULD be fired for breathing. Of course, given the number of Christian and Christian-tolerant people in the US, they'd just join together and start other companies that are "worship-friendly," and dominate the market.

[specsaregood]

When they came for the Jews, I did Nothing.
When they came for the Catholics, I did Nothing.
When they came for the Hindus, I did Nothing.
When they came for the Muslims, I did Nothing.
When they finally came for me, a Christian, I cried out for help, but there was no one left sympathetic to my plea.


In other words, everything is done in increments. Never dismiss the fact that what may be illogical to you is perfectly reasonable to the insane power holders who run this country.

So if a satan worshipper was constantly praying to satan at your cubicle, you would defend his right to keep doing it, right?

[BlackTerrel]

I would be pretty pissed if some coworkers were coming over to my cubicle and praying...

Keep that shit at home/to yourself kkthx

After work hours?

[micahnelson]

If I were to pray something along the lines of....

"Oh Lord, Please help Joe here. We all know he is a loser and smells bad. We know you have made him into a horses ass to show us the agony that can befall us if we stray from your tender mercies." Then, I am not engaging in religious speech. I am using it as a smokescreen.

[YumYum]

Of course, given the number of Christian and Christian-tolerant people in the US, they'd just join together and start other companies that are "worship-friendly," and dominate the market.

You mean something like our Congress?

[Baptist]

Owner of a business should be able to fire anyone for any reason they wish.

[micahnelson]

Owner of a business should be able to fire anyone for any reason they wish.

What if the business is the recipient of special government granted privileges (Limited Liability, Corporate Ownership). Do "The People" have a say in how a business is run in exchange for the special privileges?

/DevilsAdvocate

[1000-points-of-fright]

When they came for the Jews, I did Nothing.
When they came for the Catholics, I did Nothing.
When they came for the Hindus, I did Nothing.
When they came for the Muslims, I did Nothing.
When they finally came for me, a Christian, I cried out for help, but there was no one left sympathetic to my plea.

I find it interesting that you differentiate Catholics from Christians.

[MelissaWV]

After work hours?

Whatever rules are in place at a workplace do not end when the "work hours" end. If I have to stay late and work, I can still expect people not to pester me or invade my space at most places of business. I can hold to a relative expectation of respect and tolerable noise level (if it's an office setting). I can even expect that the lights will function and I can request access to my vehicle or restroom facilities.

Of course, businesses are going to have a say in all of that, but I still think people coming over and invading my space and potentially manipulating my personal belongings is pretty messed up. I would bring it to HR/the boss/whatever if it got to that point (and speaking to the people directly didn't work), and it'd be up to them to make the decision. Personally? I think firing's a bit harsh, but I don't know what's gone on before.

[LibertyEagle]

You mean something like our Congress?

You honestly believe that our Congress is Christian? Oh, come on.

[oyarde]

If you know peole talented enough to cast out demons , there is plenty of work for them in Washington D.C.

[nate895]

If you know peole talented enough to cast out demons , there is plenty of work for them in Washington D.C.

Ain't that the truth.

[robert9712000]

Im kinda confused by your comment melissa.youve come across over the years as one of the more reasonable people on this forum,but that comment, the way i see it ,unless you ment in a different context comes across as a ignorant statement based soley on some hatred towards religion.



Ultimately, though, it's not up to you to consider rude or not as far as the question of employment. In an ideal world, Christians COULD be fired for breathing


yes i agree that as a christian i dont push my faith unless someone first inquires but id hope noone would ever have the opinion that i should be fired for my faith

[Baptist]

I find it interesting that you differentiate Catholics from Christians.

Lots of us believe that Catholics, Mormons, Church of Christ and most Pentecostals are not Christians. For hundreds of years the Catholic Church burned Christians like me at the stake.

[nate895]

Lots of us believe that Catholics, Mormons, Church of Christ and most Pentecostals are not Christians.

Don't surrender the title Catholic. Catholic means universal, and the Catholic Church is the true church. It just is not based out of Rome and led by the Bishop of Rome. It is based upon what the Apostles taught, and the only infallible source of that teaching is the Holy Scriptures. That is why I always call the "church" led by the Pope as the Roman Church, and its followers Romanists or Papists. It is not being insulting; they are the ones insulting us by claiming the rights to the word "Catholic."

[Baptist]

Don't surrender the title Catholic. Catholic means universal, and the Catholic Church is the true church. It just is not based out of Rome and led by the Bishop of Rome. It is based upon what the Apostles taught, and the only infallible source of that teaching is the Holy Scriptures. That is why I always call the "church" led by the Pope as the Roman Church, and its followers Romanists or Papists. It is not being insulting; they are the ones insulting us by claiming the rights to the word "Catholic."

Can't surrender something I've never held (the title of Catholic). Really, the church does not call itself anything-- it's always the world that labels the church.

"And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch."
Acts 11:26

I just believe that Jesus paid the way for me to get to Heaven, and nothing I do on my own can get me there. If I had to choose a title, though, then I'd choose "Christian" because that is the term the Bible uses for people who believe in salvation by grace.

[MelissaWV]

Im kinda confused by your comment melissa.youve come across over the years as one of the more reasonable people on this forum,but that comment, the way i see it ,unless you ment in a different context comes across as a ignorant statement based soley on some hatred towards religion.

...

yes i agree that as a christian i dont push my faith unless someone first inquires but id hope noone would ever have the opinion that i should be fired for my faith

Someone could just as easily be fired for being Atheist, in an ideal world. If you ran a Christian Store that specialized in books, little statues, and whatever else... you might want someone very well-versed in Scripture, so perhaps your ad says that you are only hiring Christians. Currently, someone COULD take you to court and say you are definitely discriminating and, furthermore, you could be told by a court of law that you MUST hire someone, regardless of religion, and that if they don't understand what they're selling you should provide a course or appropriate reference material for them. That's an awful lot of headache rather than just hiring Christians.

I don't think you "should be fired" for your faith, but if your boss did that, I'd support their right to do so. I would also stop shopping there. If someone's just firing Christians left and right simply on the basis that they are Christian, I wouldn't really feel welcome in their stores or appropriate buying their wares. Their business, being that it would be seen as discriminatory against Christians, would suffer a drop in business once that was known.

I think owners should decide most, if not all, of what goes on at their business and on their property. It's up to the public to keep the owners' feet to the fire, and to compete if none of the options are satisfactory. Again, that's in an ideal world.

In this limited circumstance, though, I don't think they were necessarily "fired for praying" anyways. We don't know what went on. The "praying" seems to have involved an invasion of their co-worker's workspace, which usually has personal possessions and such. Was the co-worker there? Was the prayer just a silent moment of prayer, or was it an insulting diatribe disguised as "prayer"? If someone were bugging me I'd let it be known (first to the person bugging me then, if it didn't stop, to the person who'd have to make the unenviable "them or me?" decision). If I got fired, and it was all according to the employment contract I was under, I wouldn't sue. I'd move along to a friendlier place.

$0.02 :)

P.S. - Thank you kindly for the compliment!

[nate895]

Can't surrender something I've never held (the title of Catholic). Really, the church does not call itself anything-- it's always the world that labels the church.

"And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch."
Acts 11:26

I just believe that Jesus paid the way for me to get to Heaven, and nothing I do on my own can get me there. If I had to choose a title, though, then I'd choose "Christian" because that is the term the Bible uses for people who believe in salvation by grace.

Catholic means "universal" in Latin. Claiming to be Catholic, you are claiming membership in the universal Church of Christ (not the sect by that name). If you are not a member of the Catholic Church, by implication, you are not a member of the Church of Christ. There is only One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church (called the Four Marks of the Church), outside of which there is no salvation.

As for the Bible not using the word Catholic, it does not use the word Trinity either. That does not mean that the doctrine is not contained on every page of Scripture.

[libertarian4321]

Hate speech against who? Demons?

They prayed after hours at a cubicle. That's all it takes to get fired?

It sounds like they were deliberately trying to harass the co-worker whom they did not like. Praying that the Demon be cast out? Rubbing oils on the co-workers stuff? That's just harassment.

Would you be so quick to defend workers who went to your cubicle with Voodoo dolls and started sticking them with pins while demanding that God take your remove your demonic ass from the workplace?

At the very least, they should not have been "rubbing oils" on SOMEONE ELSE'S WORK SPACE.

You want to pray or shout at the moon on your time and on your property, go ahead, but leave co-workers alone, and leave their stuff the Hell alone.

[libertarian4321]

What the hell actually happened here? Did they go up to the guy's cubicle while he was still IN it and started going, "O' Lord, I pray for this man to stop being a douchebag..." If that is the case, religion or not that's still harassment.

From what little more I was able to figure out, they did it after-hours and it was something about casting out 'demons'. Yeah, accusing a co-worker of being infested with demons and throwing stuff on their cubicle without their consent is definitely harassment. If they were fired for, say, praying for someone's well-being after they got in an accident I'd be up in arms, but they overstepped their bounds here.

Yup.

It's obvious these workers were NOT saying a kind prayer. They wished ill will upon their co-worker and were harassing him.

They got caught, and now they are HIDING BEHIND RELIGION to avoid punishment for their bad behavior.

[Acala]

This thread should be retitled: "people hanging around the office after hours not to work but to invade an office mate's space for purposes of practicing some kind of aggressive magic rituals and calling it Christianity fired for being too creepy."

[thehunter]

This is the test of a true libertarian -- whether to advocate for another group's right despite your antipathy towards its beliefs. I've seen such stories reveal many libertarians as nothing more than fiscally conservative, bitter former church members!

[furface]

I'll pray that you stop making a buffoon of yourself on these boards and say something intelligent for once, Terrel. Please don't take that as an insult or any form of harassment. I'm praying for your benefit of course.