The Cost of Current Wars: > 1 Trillion !!!!

[Lib111]

The Cost of the Iraq-Afghanistan Wars: > $1 Trillion. - :mad::mad:

Last Tuesday. Congress passed a bill to fund the Afghan troop surge. Obama signed it without public remarks in a low-key Oval Office session. - The total amount of money that Congress has allotted for the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan now surpasses $1 trillion: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_obama_war_funding

The question arises: Is this amount not a bit steep in light of the fact that the enemy is composed of barely literate goat herders living in caves? - Are they really a danger to us? We are fighting in Afghanistan some nine years now without significant progress. Like the mythical hydra the Taliban grows new heads for every enemy we kill. - War does not seem to be the solution.

The Military-Industrial Complex is flourishing and profitable. - The other side of the coin: ... America’s infrastructure collapses ... Soldiers’ suicide rate is at an all-time peak ... The economy is in the dumps .... The dollar is faltering .... Citizens can’t find jobs and are unable to pay bills .... Our media dumb down our nation ... Our educational system atrophies .... The federal budget is in shambles ... + + +

These wars are optional wars. They serve no useful purpose. Had we spent the $1 trillion here at home, all our economic woes would not exist.

It is time to review our priorities and our values. It is not up to us to engage in nation-building abroad. Nobody likes his nose tweaked.

Our leaders make no sense. We need to rattle their cage .....
　

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Neocons Still Angle for War with Iran.

The Neocons have not given up their dream of extending the reach of the U.S. war machine into Iran on behalf of Israel’s right-wing Likud government ...

a prospective Israeli bombing attack on Iran coincides with the opening of the new Israel lobby campaign marked by the introduction of House Resolution 1553 expressing full support for such an Israeli attack. ....

the aim of [] the right-wing government of Benjamin Netanyahu is to support an attack by Israel so that the United States can be drawn into direct, full-scale war with Iran. ...

because Israel cannot fight a war with Iran without full U.S. involvement. Israel needs to know that the United States will finish the war that Israel wants to start. ...

the Israeli war party had reason to believed that it could hijack U.S. policy long enough to get the war it wanted, because it had placed one of its most militant agents, David Wurmser, in a strategic position to influence that policy. ...

polling data for 2010 show that a majority of Americans have already been manipulated into supporting war against Iran - in large part because more than two-thirds of those polled have gotten the impression that Iran already has nuclear weapons. ...

http://consortiumnews.com/2010/073110a.html


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111TH CONGRESS 2nd SESSION H. RES. 1553 JULY 22, 2010

Expressing support for the State of Israel’s right to defend Israeli sovereignty,
to protect the lives and safety of the Israeli people, and to use all
means necessary to confront and eliminate nuclear threats posed by
the Islamic Republic of Iran, including the use of military force if
no other peaceful solution can be found within reasonable time to protect
against such an immediate and existential threat to the State of Israel.

H.Res. 1553: http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=111_cong_bills&docid=f:hr1553ih.txt.pdf

[Kludge]

Forget the money. People in the US are fine. "American Poverty" has its own meaning distinct from "poverty" and rightfully so. Anyway, we still have a fourteen-digit (at LEAST) national debt figure.

However, the cost of life between military & civilians in both the US & Middle Eastern countries is inexcusable, excluding the terrible effects the Coalition forces are causing by using depleted uranium in their munition stocks.


(+ we have to invade Pakistan before we enter Iran.)

[Lib111]

(+ we have to invade Pakistan before we enter Iran.)

Kluge,

You don't get it. We do not own the world. Haughtiness will do us in .. and rightfully so. Stop watching Fox TV. That's were the nuts live. ;):rolleyes:

[Kludge]

Kluge,

You don't get it. We do not own the world. Haughtiness will do us in .. and rightfully so. Stop watching Fox TV. That's were the nuts live. ;):rolleyes:
:confused:

[oyarde]

Iran could not be invaded from the ground.With the exception of the North of the country and the coastal area it is all rugged mountain ranges.Trying to move troops in these area would be very difficult on foot or in vehicles.If you really wanted to control Persia , it could be done by naval blockade of the cost , shutting off the gasloine supply.They have no refineries. The people and military could rise up and remove those in power.At that point no nukes could be negotiated.

[YumYum]

I agree 100% with torchbearer. The more they spend on these damn wars the better. It will help this shit collapse a lot faster. I don't want to work till I die paying 90% in taxes.

[oyarde]

Except for some salt lakes , salt desert and northern rain forest this large country is mountainous.Armor and troops cannot be manuevered effectively in terrain like that.It is roughly the size of the UK , Germany , France and Spain put together , or Alaska. I do not recall it being defeated since the invasion of Ghengis Khan in 1218. Mid fourteenth century 30 % were killed by plague. In 1720's Pashtuns , Afghans from Kandahar attacked , but were eventually defeated.

[oyarde]

It is in shambles.The leading factors are not one trillion spent on wars , but medicaid.The new heath bill alone will exceed the expeditures on the wars.That is on top of the trillions of medicaid and unfunded liabilities.

[YumYum]

It is in shambles.The leading factors are not one trillion spent on wars , but medicaid.The new heath bill alone will exceed the expeditures on the wars.That is on top of the trillions of medicaid and unfunded liabilities.

Obama doesn't even realize he is helping the Revolution come right along rather nicely!

[oyarde]

Obama's policies are speeding things up greatly.The real question is do the people in that administration,Senate democrats really not understand what these policies are leading too ? Or are they evil and hope to take communist control if there is a collapse ? Are they harmlessly idiotic about economics ? Could anyone really be that inept ?

[oyarde]

The currency , debt , budget could still be saved if acted on soon.It would require eliminating the largest part of the problem which would be medicare.Repealing the health care bill , eliminating some clearly unConstitutional Federal spending , example , the dept. of education.Pretty much doing away with what is not covered in Article One , Section eight of the Constitution.That defines what the federal government is alowed to tax and spend on.

[YumYum]

The currency , debt , budget could still be saved if acted on soon.It would require eliminating the largest part of the problem which would be medicare.Repealing the health care bill , eliminating some clearly unConstitutional Federal spending , example , the dept. of education.Pretty much doing away with what is not covered in Article One , Section eight of the Constitution.That defines what the federal government is alowed to tax and spend on.

How's that going to happen? Obama isn't even talking about a balanced budget. He doesn't have a balanced budget. I could believe that there could be a chance if he, was right now, at this very moment, trying to push through a balanced budget. This spending and borrowing is not going to end. So, why fight it?

You can only ride an avalanche downhill on your skis.

[oyarde]

I do not see the will of the people there to make the sacrafice required to save it as well.I did want to point out it could still be salvaged.I think in seven our eight years we will be past that point.

[YumYum]

I do not see the will of the people there to make the sacrafice required to save it as well.I did want to point out it could still be salvaged.I think in seven our eight years we will be past that point.

Well. after reading all the stuff on this board, I have come to the conclusion we are past the point of no return. The shit is hopeless. Go read Sarge's "Doom and Gloom" thread and tell me what you think.

[oyarde]

I wish I was more positive.Even if it collapses there will be a chance to renew it.It will not be easy.Likely we would have to fight to take it back from the Marxists.It would be much easier if we would begin to address some of these problems now.

[Lib111]

House Subcommittee Appropriates U.S.-Israel Missile Defense Systems at Highest Levels Ever.

... The Appropriations Defense Subcommittee has just appropriated $217.7 million in funding for essential joint U.S.-Israel missile defense programs, which is an increase of $95.7 million in funds over the original request. I am proud that since 2007, the Appropriations Defense Subcommittee has allocated more than $750 million in federal funding for the Arrow and David's Sling anti-missile systems. Including this year's allocation of $205 million toward Israel's Iron Dome program, the Subcommittee has allocated nearly one billion dollars toward these three missile defense systems over the past three years. ...

http://www.rothman.house.gov/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1286&Itemid=93

[pcosmar]

The Cost of Current Wars: > 1 Trillion !!!!

So far. and so far as we know.
:(

[pcosmar]

Obama's policies are speeding things up greatly.The real question is do the people in that administration,Senate democrats really not understand what these policies are leading too ? Or are they evil and hope to take communist control if there is a collapse ? Are they harmlessly idiotic about economics ? Could anyone really be that inept ?

Bush ?

;)

[oyarde]

Thirty four billion was just added to the debt to extend unemployment benefits.

[Lib111]

War Scheduled to End Same Day as World.

Andrew Bacevich's new book, "Washington Rules: America's Path to Permanent War," is a good summary of the past 65 years' worth of war thinking in Washington, D.C. ...

That those in power, profiting financially and electorally from wars, immediately argue for more war is simply to be expected. ... wars tended to give boosts to presidents' approval ratings. ...

http://www.afterdowningstreet.org/node/54326

http://the-peoples-forum.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=19834&Disp=0

http://tiny.cc/uj8px

[oyarde]

Perpetual War ? I imagine if we look far enough back in history there would be evidence of this before there was much profit in it at all , more costs than profit.

[Lib111]

Some people profit mightily from war. - The Pentagon is central in this scheme.
Read up on the term "Neocon".

Weapons manufacturers and Israel, are in on the deals ...

[Lib111]

"It is the function of the CIA to keep the world unstable, and to propagandize and teach the American people to hate, so we will let the Establishment spend any amount of money on arms."-- John Stockwell, former CIA official and author.

YouTube - ‪John Stockwell: The Third World War‬‎ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9VxnCBD9W4&eurl=)

http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Stockwell/John_Stockwell.html

[oyarde]

Some people profit mightily from war. - The Pentagon is central in this scheme.
Read up on the term "Neocon".

Weapons manufacturers and Israel, are in on the deals ...

In recent modern times , I would agree that some share holders ( I put my daughter on General Dynamics at its low recently) , some business etc. , can make a large profit from war.The world has been at war since its inception.Several hundred years ago there was perpetual war and little or no profit involved.Many times , just expense.The fact that it was not profitable did not keep it from occurring.

[heavenlyboy34]

In recent modern times , I would agree that some share holders ( I put my daughter on General Dynamics at its low recently) , some business etc. , can make a large profit from war.The world has been at war since its inception.Several hundred years ago there was perpetual war and little or no profit involved.Many times , just expense.The fact that it was not profitable did not keep it from occurring.

All the classical literature I've read shows that pre-State wars are fought to gain power, land, wealth, resources, and such things. (even King David plundered his victims, you know) War, even in primitive society, is too costly to wage just for the hell of it. Perhaps you have an example of such a war that promised no financial or power gains?

[Lib111]

The military-industrial complex.

YouTube - ‪Chalmers Johnson - Speaking Freely‬‎ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VPr_T7btVgA&feature=player_embedded)

http://militaryindustrialcomplex.com/

http://militaryindustrialcomplex.com/2010-totals.asp

http://militaryindustrialcomplex.com/companies.asp\

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military-industrial_complex

[oyarde]

All the classical literature I've read shows that pre-State wars are fought to gain power, land, wealth, resources, and such things. (even King David plundered his victims, you know) War, even in primitive society, is too costly to wage just for the hell of it. Perhaps you have an example of such a war that promised no financial or power gains?

Yes I think many of the battes were fought for land control only.the inherent risk of loss of man and matl. likely did not make most of these profitable in the times before David.Some of the Roman conflicts as well probably cost them more to wage than what was gained.I think they were aware of that ahead of time.I think Rome taking Gaul ( France) may be an example , but I would have to hit my books to check on it.I imagine it cost them more to take it and control it than they would get in return for it.It was a tribal land with no cities.Not much to steal.I think the failed Roman invasion into the Germanic tribal lands was at great cost for very little potential return.

[Lib111]

Intelligence professionals warn that Israel may attack Iran this month. http://tiny.cc/hoiv3

... Netanyahu believes he holds the high cards, largely because of the strong support he enjoys in our Congress and our strongly pro-Israel media.

... The power of the Likud Lobby, especially in an election year, facilitates Netanyahu’s attempts to convince those few of his colleagues who need convincing that there may never be a more auspicious time to bring about “regime change” in Tehran. ...


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Israeli Publications:

http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition

http://www.jpost.com/

http://jta.org/

http://www.ynetnews.com/home/0,7340,L-3083,00.html

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/AllFlashes.aspx

http://www.conferenceofpresidents.org/index.asp

[oyarde]

While many may agree that a regime change in Iran may not be a bad thing, the question is what would you get as a replacement and what is the best you could hope for ?

[Bruno]

Some people profit mightily from war. - The Pentagon is central in this scheme.
Read up on the term "Neocon".

Weapons manufacturers and Israel, are in on the deals ...

Welcome to the RPF! :)

You're preaching to the choir. ;)

[Todd]

The military-industrial complex.

YouTube - ‪Chalmers Johnson - Speaking Freely‬‎ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VPr_T7btVgA&feature=player_embedded)



Chalmers is a great non partisan voice of reason. Get your hands on anything written by the man. :cool:

[Lib111]

USA - $63 trillion in Debt.

Comeback America: Turning the Country Around and Restoring Fiscal Responsibility. - David M. Walker (Author) 2009.

... Walker is a CPA by training, formerly served as the U.S. Comptroller General (among other positions), and knows whereof he speaks. ...

... As of 9/30/09, the government (and by extension this country) was in a fiscal hole of some $63 trillion, a total of liabilities and unfunded promises so vast that it is hard to comprehend, which was "rising every second of every day." ...

http://www.amazon.com/Comeback-America-Turning-Restoring-Responsibility/dp/1400068606


Peter G. Peterson Foundation: http://www.pgpf.org/

YouTube - A Message from the Peter G. Peterson Foundation (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qlR0XO_MWsY&feature=player_embedded)

YouTube - PGPF President and CEO Dave Walker on 60 Minutes (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mLr6dR_LmIM&feature=related)


Citizens’ Guide: http://www.pgpf.org/resources/PGPF_CitizensGuide_2009.pdf


We can no longer afford the insane wars in the Middle-East - most of them instigated by Israel.

[YumYum]

People can write books and go on talk shows with brilliant ideas on how to turn this mess around, but it really is a waste of time because our government has no intention of cutting spending. That includes war mongering Republicans.

[oyarde]

People can write books and go on talk shows with brilliant ideas on how to turn this mess around, but it really is a waste of time because our government has no intention of cutting spending. That includes war mongering Republicans.

Cutting spending is what must be done.Until we vote a congress that is willing to do that, writing the books may be a waste of time.

[Lib111]

Cutting spending is what must be done.Until we vote a congress that is willing to do that, writing the books may be a waste of time.

I don't agree. Without understanding the problem, people cannot make a judgement. Our media failed to inform us. -- They are in cahoots.

[oyarde]

I don't agree. Without understanding the problem, people cannot make a judgement. Our media failed to inform us. -- They are in cahoots.

You do not think if people saw the numbers on medicare and that health bill they would not understand it is unaffordable ?

[Todd]

You do not think if people saw the numbers on medicare and that health bill they would not understand it is unaffordable ?

Even when the facts are put square in front of some people they refuse to budge.
Pay close attention to the history of government expansion. The numbers haven't added up for sometime now, and still we want more.

[Lib111]

The Long-Term Budget Outlook. http://www.cbo.gov/doc.cfm?index=11579

[Lib111]

Ten Trillion and CountingAnalysis: The risks of the growing debt... -- PBS Video.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/tentrillion/view/

http://tiny.cc/l03v0

[Lib111]

Perspective on War Costs: Is It Worth It?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/michael-ford/perspective-on-war-costs_b_683069.html


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Israel’s Defense Minister Barak approves “purchase” of 20 F-35 fighters for around $2.75 billion.

... The entire deal will be funded by American military aid and still needs the cabinet's approval. ...

http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/news/defense-minister-barak-approves-purchase-of-20-f-35-fighters-for-around-2-75-billion-1.308235

Another ‘top priority’ gift ...... from a bankrupt nation ... to fight unnecessary wars.


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U.S. warns Turkey that strained Israel ties could hinder arms deal.

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/u-s-warns-turkey-that-strained-israel-ties-could-hinder-arms-deal-1.308318


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Israel to reject Quartet call for establishment of Palestinian state by 2011

http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/news/israel-to-reject-quartet-call-for-establishment-of-palestinian-state-by-2011-1.308238


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Pentagon Holding U.S. Hostage To Endless Wars.

http://www.opednews.com/articles/Pentagon-Holding-U-S-Host-by-Sherwood-Ross-100815-251.html

http://america-hijacked.com/2010/08/


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The reality of a nuclear Middle East is becoming increasingly likely. The dilemma Israel faces in the longer run is between a nuclear Middle East and a demilitarized one. Either everyone in the region has nuclear weapons or no state has. ....

An Israeli initiative for a complete demilitarization of the Middle East of weapons of mass destruction should be considered. ...

http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/opinion/the-morning-after-the-attack-on-iran-1.307474

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Israel urgently needs to develop and advance a new genre of leader.

http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/opinion/the-conscience-of-leaders-1.308081


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'End Israel's nuclear secrecy' !!!!

http://www.jpost.com/MiddleEast/Article.aspx?id=184837


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... The Jewish Federations of North America, which lobbies for more than $10 billion for Jewish causes each year from the federal government, was among the largest supporters of the FMAP extension. ...

http://www.jta.org/news/article/2010/08/16/2740493/jewish-groups-exhale-after-congress-extends-medicaid-program

[YumYum]

^^^ A "true friend and ally" doesn't take from someone who is broke and bankrupt.

[Lib111]

The true cost of the Iraq war: $3 trillion and beyond.

... our $3 trillion estimate (which accounted for both government expenses and the war's broader impact on the U.S. economy) was, if anything, too low. For example, the cost of diagnosing, treating and compensating disabled veterans has proved higher than we expected. ...

This was the first time in American history that the government cut taxes as it went to war. The result: a war completely funded by borrowing. U.S. debt soared from $6.4 trillion in March 2003 to $10 trillion in 2008 (before the financial crisis); at least a quarter of that increase is directly attributable to the war. ...

The global financial crisis was due, at least in part, to the war. ...

it seems clear that without this war, not only would America's standing in the world be higher, our economy would be stronger. The question today is: Can we learn from this costly mistake?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/09/03/AR2010090302200.html

Remember: Without the strong influence of the 'Pro-Israel Lobby' this war would not have been fought!!!! …. and our economy would be in good shape …
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The best analysis of TEA-BAGGERS - Eric Margolis:
http://vodpod.com/watch/3266004-eric-margolis-the-current-republican-party-appeals-to-fear-and-prejudice

Next, Margolis presents FACTS/TRUTH - not propaganda - concerning HAMAS. As usual, INFORMATION is a significant issue - considering the current scheduled IMPORTANT peace negotiations:
YouTube - Who and what is Hamas? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qbVZgrUUSnA)

Here Margolis' Archives, well worth to dig through and understand/untangle international affairs: http://www.bigeye.com/fcorrlst.htm

Margolis is an American, a Vietnam War veteran, a PhD -- but he is syndicated in Canada -- for columns like this:
http://www.bigeye.com/111703.htm

To get the truth from an expert on Asia and the MIddle East, I always seek Margolis' analysis:
YouTube - Eric Margolis: US Set To Invade Pakistan (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Twc8OskFMic)

[Minuteman2012]

"Moreover, polling data for 2010 show that a majority of Americans have already been manipulated into supporting war against Iran - in large part because more than two-thirds of those polled have gotten the impression that Iran already has nuclear weapons. "
:eek:wtf?