Obama: "Black kids badly trail white kids in education"

[YumYum]

He is speaking right now and made this comment.

If it is true, whose fault is it?

[Bruno]

He is speaking right now and made this comment.

If it is true, whose fault is it?

White people's, without a doubt. Only our federal government can provide a solution. :rolleyes:

[FrankRep]

http://www.thenewamerican.com/images/stories/columnists/walterwilliams.001.jpg


The education establishment is failing Black Americans by not insisting on the proper use of language.


Black Opportunity Destruction (http://www.thenewamerican.com/index.php/opinion/walter-williams/2912-black-opportunity-destruction)


Walter Williams | The New American (http://www.thenewamerican.com/)
10 February 2010


"Do you mean he is taller than me am?" sarcastically barked Dr. Martin Rosenberg, my high school English teacher, to one of the students in our class. The student actually said, "He is taller than me," but Rosenberg was ridiculing the student's grammar. The subject of the elliptical (or understood) verb "am" must be in the subjective case. Thus, the correct form of the sentence is: He is taller than I.

This correction/dressing down of a student, that occasionally included me, occurred during my attendance at North Philadelphia's Benjamin Franklin High School in the early '50s. Franklin was predominantly black; its students were poor or low middle class. On top of that, Franklin had just about the lowest academic standing in the city. All of our teachers, except two or three, were white. Despite the fact that we were poor, most of Franklin's teachers held fairly high standards and expectations.

Today, high standards and expectations, at some schools, would mean trouble for a teacher. Teachers, as pointed out in one teaching program, are encouraged to "Recognize and understand the cultural differences among students from diverse backgrounds, and treat such differences with respect. Intervene immediately, should a fellow student disparage a Black student's culture or language." That means if a black student says, "I be wiff him" or "He axed me a question," teachers shouldn't bother to correct the student's language. What's more, should anyone disparage or laugh at the way the student speaks, the teacher should intervene in his defense. Correcting the student's speech might be deemed as insensitive to diversity at best and racism at worst, leading possibly to a teacher's reprimand, termination and possibly assault.

A teacher's job is to teach and failure to correct a student's speech, just as failure to correct a math error, is a dereliction of duty. You might say, "Williams, Ebonics or black English is part of the cultural roots of black people and to disparage it is racism." That's utter nonsense. During the 1940s and 1950s, I lived in North Philadelphia's Richard Allen housing project, along with its most famous resident, Bill Cosby. We all were poor or low middle class but no one spoke black English. My wife was the youngest of 10 children. Listening to her brothers and sisters speak, compared to many of her nieces and nephews, you wouldn't believe they were in the same family. The difference has nothing to do with cultural roots of black people. The difference is that parents, teachers and others in authority over youngsters have become less judgmental, politically correct and lazy; therefore, speaking poorly is accepted.

Language is our tool of communication. If a person has poor oral language skills, he's likely to have poor writing, reading and comprehension skills. To my knowledge, there are no books in any field of study written in Ebonics or black English. It is very likely that a person with poor language skills will suffer significant deficits in other areas of academic competence such as mathematics and the sciences. It doesn't mean that the person is unintelligent; it means that he doesn't have all the tools of intelligence. That is what's so insidious about the state of black education today; so many blacks do not have a chance to develop the tools of intelligence. Many might have high native intelligence but come off sounding like a moron.

Black Americans should thank God that non-judgmental, politically correct people weren't around during the early civil rights movement when blacks began breaking discriminatory barriers. Discriminatory employers would have had ready-made excuses not to hire a black as a trolley car motorman, cashier or department store sales clerk.

There are some significant challenges to being judgmental and politically incorrect and insisting on proper language. A professor or teacher can get cursed out by students or parents. A black student who speaks well, carries books and studies can be accused of "acting white" and find himself shunned and assaulted by other students.

I would be interested in hearing the teaching establishment's defense of permitting poor language.


Walter E. Williams is a professor of economics at George Mason University.


SOURCE:
http://www.thenewamerican.com/index.php/opinion/walter-williams/2912-black-opportunity-destruction

[FrankRep]

Walter Williams on Good Intentions: Public Schools, Minimum Wage, Licensing, and Welfare


Public Schools:

YouTube - Good Intentions 1of3 Introduction and Public Schools with Walter Williams (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P1r-r6iLBEI)

Minimum Wages and Occupational Licensing:

YouTube - Good Intentions 2of3 Minimum Wage, Licensing, and Labor Laws with Walter Williams (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7DS0XXFdyfI)

Welfare:

YouTube - Good Intentions 3of3 The Welfare System and Conclusions with Walter Williams (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eqMuLNWL_Qo)

[FrankRep]

With black student performance at its lowest level, particularly in Detroit and other large cities, it's time to look at the problems with the education system in America says Walter Williams.


Black Education (http://www.thenewamerican.com/index.php/opinion/960-walter-williams/2630-black-education)


http://www.thenewamerican.com/images/stories/columnists/walterwilliams.001.jpg


Walter Williams | The New American (http://www.TheNewAmerican.com/)
23 December 2009


Detroit's (predominantly black) public schools are the worst in the nation and it takes some doing to be worse than Washington, D.C. Only 3 percent of Detroit's fourth-graders scored proficient on the most recent National Assessment of Education Progress (NAEP) test, sometimes called "The Nation's Report Card." Twenty-eight percent scored basic and 69 percent below basic.

"Below basic" is the NAEP category when students are unable to demonstrate even partial mastery of knowledge and skills fundamental for proficient work at their grade level. It's the same story for Detroit's eighth-graders. Four percent scored proficient, 18 percent basic and 77 percent below basic.

Michael Casserly, executive director of the D.C.-based Council on Great City Schools, in an article appearing in Crain's Detroit Business, (12/8/09) titled, "Detroit's Public Schools Post Worst Scores on Record in National Assessment," said, "There is no jurisdiction of any kind, at any level, at any time in the 30-year history of NAEP that has ever registered such low numbers." The academic performance of black students in other large cities such as Philadelphia, Chicago, New York and Los Angeles is not much better than Detroit and Washington.

What's to be done about this tragic state of black education? The education establishment and politicians tell us that we need to spend more for higher teacher pay and smaller class size. The fact of business is higher teacher salaries and smaller class sizes mean little or nothing in terms of academic achievement. Washington, D.C., for example spends over $15,000 per student, has class sizes smaller than the nation's average, and with an average annual salary of $61,195, its teachers are the most highly paid in the nation.

What about role models? Standard psychobabble asserts a positive relationship between the race of teachers and administrators and student performance. That's nonsense. Black academic performance is the worst in the very cities where large percentages of teachers and administrators are black, and often the school superintendent is black, the mayor is black, most of the city council is black and very often the chief of police is black.

Black people have accepted hare-brained ideas that have made large percentages of black youngsters virtually useless in an increasingly technological economy. This destruction will continue until the day comes when black people are willing to turn their backs on liberals and the education establishment's agenda and confront issues that are both embarrassing and uncomfortable. To a lesser extent, this also applies to whites because the educational performance of many white kids is nothing to write home about; it's just not the disaster that black education is.

Many black students are alien and hostile to the education process. They have parents with little interest in their education. These students not only sabotage the education process, but make schools unsafe as well. These students should not be permitted to destroy the education chances of others. They should be removed or those students who want to learn should be provided with a mechanism to go to another school.

Another issue deemed too delicate to discuss is the overall quality of people teaching our children. Students who have chosen education as their major have the lowest SAT scores of any other major. Students who have an education degree earn lower scores than any other major on graduate school admission tests such as the GRE, MCAT or LSAT. Schools of education, either graduate or undergraduate, represent the academic slums of most any university. They are home to the least able students and professors. Schools of education should be shut down.

Yet another issue is the academic fraud committed by teachers and administrators. After all, what is it when a student is granted a diploma certifying a 12th grade level of achievement when in fact he can't perform at the sixth- or seventh-grade level?

Prospects for improvement in black education are not likely given the cozy relationship between black politicians, civil rights organizations and teacher unions.


Walter E. Williams is a professor of economics at George Mason University.


SOURCE:
http://www.thenewamerican.com/index.php/opinion/960-walter-williams/2630-black-education

[Imaginos]

Sure, it's evil White people's deed, right?
:rolleyes:
When I moved to this country I had to start from learning how to speak English yet I ended up getting 3 deans' honor awards and 1 president's award for academic performance (not by Affirmative Action. But by 100% pure performance. Fuck Affirmative Action!).
Those evil White controllers must got lazy since I ended up successful.
LOLOL
Stop making fucking excuses and just do some work!
You are wondering why some people doing badly in school?
Because they are not studying hard!
It's as simple as that.
Shut the fuck up and stop blaming the system!
If our system is discriminating anybody, it's White male!
Heck, if I was a White guy, I'd start a riot or something.

[AuH20]

It's largely attributed to a broken family unit. Blacks can be as academically successful as whites if they're reared in the same sort of stabilized environment in their formative years. Government once again overdiagnoses the problem and casts blame on the wrong factors.

[Koz]

He is speaking right now and made this comment.

If it is true, whose fault is it?

Whites are to blame. Whoever doesn't know that is racist.

Race card, I just pulled it.

[Rancher]

More racists comments from our president. :mad:

All American children trail the world in education. :(

[Imaginos]

All American children trail the world in education. :(
Very true.
I am really worried about this situation.
Big governemt has been trying to achieve 'equality' by dragging down excellent & superior individuals to the level of borderline retards.
Superior individuals should not be restrained by system or government because they are the ones who achieve/create/invent great things for all humanity.
I don't care that superior individual is whether White, Black, Brown, Yellow, Red, or etc. etc.
Don't try to stop them in the name of equality!

[Fredom101]

He's right!
The solution?
Throw billions of stolen taxpayer dollars at inner city, predominately black schools!
Because, that's always worked SO well in the past. :rolleyes:

[Stary Hickory]

Obviously it's racist teachers

[CountryboyRonPaul]

YouTube - Katrina's Silver Lining: The School Choice Revolution in New Orleans (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P12pgeV8ZQM)

[puppetmaster]

for whom the bell curve tolls.........

[DirtMcGirt]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/02/24/AR2009022403815.html


Excerpt-
-School Vouchers-

CONGRESSIONAL Democrats want to mandate that the District's unique school voucher program be reauthorized before more federal money can be allocated for it. It is a seemingly innocuous requirement. In truth it is an ill-disguised bid to kill a program that gives some poor parents a choice regarding where their children go to school. Many of the Democrats have never liked vouchers, and it seems they won't let fairness or the interests of low-income, minority children stand in the way of their politics. But it also seems they're too ashamed -- and with good reason -- to admit to what they're doing.

[jmdrake]

He is speaking right now and made this comment.

If it is true, whose fault is it?

The fault is the school systems. Research shows that there is no test achievement gap for black homeschoolers.

http://www.indiana.edu/~homeeduc/topic_academic.html

The solution? Reign in the teacher unions (that's an issue at least in public school) and make it easier for people to teach their kids at home by abolishing the income tax. High taxes are a big part of the reason most families now require two bread winners. Trashing the modern welfare system, which is anti family at it's core, would also help. (Doing that will make it easier to cut taxes). Another problem is the emphasis our country puts on sports. I was at an inner city park once during "pee wee football" tryouts and I saw many parents were out there pushing their kids to "make that tackle" and "run that ball" and "make that hit". I thought to myself "Imagine if these same parents were just as hard on their kids about homework".

[Anti Federalist]

The fault is the school systems. Research shows that there is no test achievement gap for black homeschoolers.

http://www.indiana.edu/~homeeduc/topic_academic.html

The solution? Reign in the teacher unions (that's an issue at least in public school) and make it easier for people to teach their kids at home by abolishing the income tax. High taxes are a big part of the reason most families now require two bread winners. Trashing the modern welfare system, which is anti family at it's core, would also help. (Doing that will make it easier to cut taxes). Another problem is the emphasis our country puts on sports. I was at an inner city park once during "pee wee football" tryouts and I saw many parents were out there pushing their kids to "make that tackle" and "run that ball" and "make that hit". I thought to myself "Imagine if these same parents were just as hard on their kids about homework".

There will be no "solution", since the schools are doing exactly what they are supposed to be doing.

Turning out generation after generation of semi-literate people who, above all, will never question the supremacy of the state.

[jmdrake]

There will be no "solution", since the schools are doing exactly what they are supposed to be doing.

Turning out generation after generation of semi-literate people who, above all, will never question the supremacy of the state.

I take it you're familiar with this Charlotte Iserbyt.

http://www.deliberatedumbingdown.com/

[tjeffersonsghost]

Hell, White kids trail Asian kids in education. I guess we must have an Asian biased education system if Asian kids are kicking both white and black kids asses in education :)

[Anti Federalist]

I take it you're familiar with this Charlotte Iserbyt.

http://www.deliberatedumbingdown.com/

Bingo

;)

[Paleo]

what is this 'black'? I thought we were supposed to be judging people on the content of their character...

[acptulsa]

'They have a great many schools in Russia, which seem intended not so much to eliminate illiteracy as they are to teach propaganda.'--Will Rogers

Did it ever occur to him that maybe minorities just have less patience with being stuffed into a mold and expected to come out just like all of their classmates than the caucasion do? Or does he realize it but fear to actually say it?

[teamrican1]

The fault is the school systems. Research shows that there is no test achievement gap for black homeschoolers.

http://www.indiana.edu/~homeeduc/topic_academic.html


That's a pretty useless statistic without first accounting for about a million variables. Home schoolers are a self selected sample.

I think the larger issue is whatever the cause of the gap, or whether there even is a gap, is an issue for (non-state subsidized) scientists, not politicians. The Federal Government has no Constitutional basis for involving itself in education. As a Constitutional scholar, Obama should know that. Or maybe he wants to blame his ignorance on his skin color? If only we sent more money taxpayer money to posh Hawaiian private schools our black President's wouldn't be so stupid?

[jmdrake]

That's a pretty useless statistic without first accounting for about a million variables. Home schoolers are a self selected sample.

I think the larger issue is whatever the cause of the gap, or whether there even is a gap, is an issue for (non-state subsidized) scientists, not politicians. The Federal Government has no Constitutional basis for involving itself in education. As a Constitutional scholar, Obama should know that. Or maybe he wants to blame his ignorance on his skin color? If only we sent more money taxpayer money to posh Hawaiian private schools our black President's wouldn't be so stupid?

No statistic is useless. There are only useless people who don't know how to use them. ;) Private and parochial schools are also "self selected" but don't quite the same results. Homeschool parents can bend the curriculum to best fit their child's learning style instead of bending their child to fit the curriculum. You should see similar results in Montessori or Waldorf schools, although I'm not sure if they have the same results.

[awake]

This is why the government collects statistics...to HELP you ... they see alarming correlations and bingo, a politician is born. It's like the bat light to Batman. In this case, it's like the smell of manure to a fly.

[teamrican1]

No statistic is useless. There are only useless people who don't know how to use them. ;) Private and parochial schools are also "self selected" but don't quite the same results. Homeschool parents can bend the curriculum to best fit their child's learning style instead of bending their child to fit the curriculum. You should see similar results in Montessori or Waldorf schools, although I'm not sure if they have the same results.

Is the IQ of black families who enroll their children in home schooling higher or lower than the IQ of the general black population? My guess is that it is substantially higher. Is the IQ of white families who enroll their children in home schooling higher or lower than the IQ of the general white population. That I would be far less willing to bet on, and if it is higher I'd be willing to bet the spread is not nearly as drastic as the black spread. That's just one tiny unknown variable that prevents us from drawing any conclusions whatsoever from your statistic. There could in fact be a considerable achievement gap between white and black home schoolers even if they score the exact same on tests depending on the makeup of the two sample populations.

[jmdrake]

Is the IQ of black families who enroll their children in home schooling higher or lower than the IQ of the general black population?

Not from what I've seen.



My guess is that it is substantially higher. Is the IQ of white families who enroll their children in home schooling higher or lower than the IQ of the general white population. That I would be far less willing to bet on, and if it is higher I'd be willing to bet the spread is not nearly as drastic as the black spread.


And you base this bet on what? Your preconceived notions of the outcome you want to believe? IQ measurements are wildly inaccurate anyway because people obtain and display intelligence in different ways. Recognizing this is what makes homeschooling successful.



That's just one tiny unknown variable that prevents us from drawing any conclusions whatsoever from your statistic. There could in fact be a considerable achievement gap between white and black home schoolers even if they score the exact same on tests depending on the makeup of the two sample populations.

:rolleyes: I'm sure if the statistic worked out the way you wanted to you'd be all over it. Have you done such carefully crafted studies controlling for all variables for the statistics showing a gap? Maybe there is no achievement gap at all.

[Stary Hickory]

Well I just love it when a collectivist gets on TV and says see people with X skin color behave in this manner.....

All right so hmm? What does that have to do with me? You know this is where it is at now. Treat all individuals equally under the law and leave it at that. You can cross section the people a million ways, fat, tall, ugly, big nosed, smelly.....I mean we have a million ways of discriminating between different people. It is irrational to broadly group one segment of people together and ask someone why some 30 million people behave in this manner...

So what go ask each INDIVIDUAL what is up, quit looking at people as if they were cattle. It's insulting.

[Zippyjuan]

The gap is more economic than racial. Blacks are overly represented in poverty and the poor are most commonly getting the weakest education. Poor whites and poor hispanics don't do as well as their economically better counterparts either.

[YumYum]

Well I just love it when a collectivist gets on TV and says see people with X skin color behave in this manner.....

All right so hmm? What does that have to do with me? You know this is where it is at now. Treat all individuals equally under the law and leave it at that. You can cross section the people a million ways, fat, tall, ugly, big nosed, smelly.....I mean we have a million ways of discriminating between different people. It is irrational to broadly group one segment of people together and ask someone why some 30 million people behave in this manner...

So what go ask each INDIVIDUAL what is up, quit looking at people as if they were cattle. It's insulting.

I thought that too. While he candy-coats his speeches about how everybody is to blame, he still makes black students a victim. I just finished my degree, and I learned in the financial aid office that if a black kid can graduate with a C- average from High School, he/she can get a full and complete ride all the way to get his/her Ph.D from any University they choose. Incredible opportunity.

After a black kid completes law school at a prestigious University at the government's expense, they can pass their bar exam with a minimum score that is twenty points lower than what non-black grads are allowed. Blacks have incredible opportunities, and some have done very well and have worked hard to succeed. But why, when there is so much opportunity for black students, do they have to be portrayed as the victims?

I am very much against "victim stigmatizing".

We are all victims.

[Stary Hickory]

I thought that too. While he candy-coats his speeches about how everybody is to blame, he still makes black students a victim. I just finished my degree, and I learned in the financial aid office that if a black kid can graduate with a C- average from High School, he/she can get a full and complete ride all the way to get his/her Ph.D from any University they choose. Incredible opportunity.

After a black kid completes law school at a prestigious University at the government's expense, they can pass their bar exam with a minimum score that is twenty points lower than what non-black grads are allowed. Blacks have incredible opportunities, and some have done very well and have worked hard to succeed. But why, when there is so much opportunity for black students, do they have to be portrayed as the victims?

I am very much against "victim stigmatizing".

We are all victims.

I am against it too, I am against anything other then dealing with people as individuals. This thing is when you let someone with a racist mentality or a collectivist mentality phrase a question they only give you two possible answers:

What kind of racist are you?

When a collectivist/racist asks why do blacks score low on tests

They are giving you two choices, say that they are discriminated against or say that for some reason this group of people are inferior in some way in relation to their race.

So now you have two choices:

1) claim that they are discriminated against and then institute racist legislation against another color of skin or

2) say that a certain racial group scores lower on tests in general


The question itself is racist, it was formed by a racist collectivist mind. The choice is not to answer it because it is insulting to group people by the color of their skin thus treating them as less than self thinking individuals.

The person asking the question is always the racist, to answer these questions is to simply amplify their racist ideology.

[BlackTerrel]

He is speaking right now and made this comment.

If it is true, whose fault is it?

You really enjoy starting loaded threads.

1. It's obviously true. You knew that. But asked anyway.

2. Despite some simplistic responses there is no simple answer.

[BlackTerrel]

Sure, it's evil White people's deed, right?
:rolleyes:
When I moved to this country I had to start from learning how to speak English yet I ended up getting 3 deans' honor awards and 1 president's award for academic performance (not by Affirmative Action. But by 100% pure performance. Fuck Affirmative Action!).
Those evil White controllers must got lazy since I ended up successful.
LOLOL
Stop making fucking excuses and just do some work!
You are wondering why some people doing badly in school?
Because they are not studying hard!
It's as simple as that.
Shut the fuck up and stop blaming the system!
If our system is discriminating anybody, it's White male!
Heck, if I was a White guy, I'd start a riot or something.

If you had so much success moving here and pursuing and achieving the American dream then why are you so angry?

[BlackTerrel]

I thought that too. While he candy-coats his speeches about how everybody is to blame, he still makes black students a victim. I just finished my degree, and I learned in the financial aid office that if a black kid can graduate with a C- average from High School, he/she can get a full and complete ride all the way to get his/her Ph.D from any University they choose. Incredible opportunity.

Look. There is a reason I don't believe anything you say You're telling me that a black kid with a C- GPA can get a full ride into any University in the country? Hahahahaha I wish.

Dude you are so full of crap... and a liar.

[Anti Federalist]

The gap is more economic than racial. Blacks are overly represented in poverty and the poor are most commonly getting the weakest education. Poor whites and poor hispanics don't do as well as their economically better counterparts either.

Economic, meaning, at home?

Or in money spent per pupil on the education establishment?

I'd have to dig them up, but I recall DC as spending more per pupil than any other school district in the country, but having some of the lowest standardized test scores in the nation.

[YumYum]

When a collectivist/racist asks why do blacks score low on tests

They are giving you two choices, say that they are discriminated against or say that for some reason this group of people are inferior in some way in relation to their race.

And that is exactly what I thought when the government lowered the bar exam minimum score for black students by 20 points. If a black student received an education at, say, Harvard law school, why would he or she need to have the minimum score to pass on their bar exam reduced when they had the same education as non-black students? That is an insult to black graduates.

[Stary Hickory]

Look. There is a reason I don't believe anything you say You're telling me that a black kid with a C- GPA can get a full ride into any University in the country? Hahahahaha I wish.

Dude you are so full of crap... and a liar.

There is a racial bias against Whites in the country. The examples are everywhere. Why is it you deny this? Are we to abandon one another based on skin color? There are quotas and a plethora of racist legislation out there, it has no place no matter what race it might or might not support.

When thinking about this I always imagine a little kid. Say he is white, try and explain to him why the government is working against him, explain to him that he is guilty because he was born a certain color....I mean it tragic and horrible.

I have had it as about as much as I can take, race has no place in legislation just like hair color or foot size has no place in legislation. It's silly and immoral to do otherwise.

[Stary Hickory]

And that is exactly what I thought when the government lowered the bar exam minimum score for black students by 20 points. If a black student received an education at, say, Harvard law school, why would he or she need to have the minimum score to pass on their bar exam reduced when they had the same education as non-black students? That is an insult to black graduates.

Yea and this is a problem. If private institutions that receive no pubic funding want to be racist that is fine. I won't attend or support their institutions. It is insulting to any individual who is not a collectivist or racist to have the bar lowered solely based on a different shade of skin tone.

There is no justice in that at all to everyone involved.

[YumYum]

Look. There is a reason I don't believe anything you say You're telling me that a black kid with a C- GPA can get a full ride into any University in the country? Hahahahaha I wish.

Dude you are so full of crap... and a liar.

Non-Black Terrel. You are truly annoying at times. There is government funding for black kids from inter-cities that will provide them a full ride if they finish High School with at least a C- average. Why you so pissed? You jealous?

How do you think our president got into Harvard Law School? He fucked up at Occidental College, and his performance was nothing to write home about at Columbia. Did he get in on his smile? Or, maybe his rich granpappy back in Hawaii paid for it? You want to make this personal, you go on right ahead.

If you were truly black, as you claim, you would know about programs like "Affirmative Action".

[jmdrake]

I thought that too. While he candy-coats his speeches about how everybody is to blame, he still makes black students a victim. I just finished my degree, and I learned in the financial aid office that if a black kid can graduate with a C- average from High School, he/she can get a full and complete ride all the way to get his/her Ph.D from any University they choose. Incredible opportunity.


Really? Cause I know a lot of black kids with C+ averages that aren't getting squat. In fact I didn't get much in terms of financial aid even though I had a solid B average and the highest ACT score in my overwhelmingly white academy. (28). I did get some academic scholarships. On the other hand I do know kids white and black who know how to work the scholarship system and apply early and often for everything coming down the pike. Did you know there's even a scholarship for promoting vegetarianism?

When you get to the PhD level, getting scholarships aren't that difficult because your actually working as a Hebrew slave to help some faculty member get his papers published. That and PhD students (in the sciences anyway) often teach courses and/or labs to undergraduates. At the university I went to students were thrilled to get a black teaching assistant or a white teaching assistant because the overwhelming majority of the physics, chemistry or computer science grad students were either Asian or Indian and many had thick accents.



After a black kid completes law school at a prestigious University at the government's expense, they can pass their bar exam with a minimum score that is twenty points lower than what non-black grads are allowed. Blacks have incredible opportunities, and some have done very well and have worked hard to succeed. But why, when there is so much opportunity for black students, do they have to be portrayed as the victims?


Whoever told you that was lying. I know for a fact that blacks and whites have to get the same score on the bar to pass. Also I don't know of any race specific law scholarships from the government. No wonder people get so hot under the collar on the issue of race with all of the misinformation out there. :mad:

[jmdrake]

Non-Black Terrel. You are truly annoying at times. There is government funding for black kids from inter-cities that will provide them a full ride if they finish High School with at least a C- average. Why you so pissed? You jealous?


Name the scholarship. Seriously. I don't think it exists.



How do you think our president got into Harvard Law School? He fucked up at Occidental College, and his performance was nothing to write home about at Columbia. Did he get in on his smile? Or, maybe his rich granpappy back in Hawaii paid for it? You want to make this personal, you go on right ahead.

If you were truly black, as you claim, you would know about programs like "Affirmative Action".

How did dubya make it through Yale?

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_VizIrBQwA8w/R7Eqg_Qp02I/AAAAAAAABIQ/TEN9mEIvLA0/s400/bush+yale+cheerleader.jpg

And don't forget that Obama and Cheney are cousins. He's a "blue blooder" just like the rest of em.

[jmdrake]

And that is exactly what I thought when the government lowered the bar exam minimum score for black students by 20 points. If a black student received an education at, say, Harvard law school, why would he or she need to have the minimum score to pass on their bar exam reduced when they had the same education as non-black students? That is an insult to black graduates.

Where do you get this crap from? The same score needed for a white student to pass is needed for a black student to pass. What was in the news recently was about blacks taking the test multiple times. But that's probably due to blacks being too cheap to buy the bar review courses (or being less likely to have lawyers in the family who will let them have their old bar review material). If the government was lowering the score to the rate where most blacks passed the first time you wouldn't have a large number not passing the first time.

[YumYum]

jmdrake, it is a fact that in the state of California, black students can pass with a score 20 points lower that non-blacks. It was discussed at hand on a conservative talk show in Nashville, I believe by Phil Valentine.

As far as opportunities go, as you say, there are thousands of scholarships for students, or at least there used to be. To help black kids get out of the "hood" and to get an opportunity at making a success of themselves, there is a federally funded program that will take them to the top, fully paid for, if they graduate with at least a C- average.

Are you trying to say that black students don't have opportunities afforded to them that non-blacks don't have?

[YumYum]

Name the scholarship. Seriously. I don't think it exists.



How did dubya make it through Yale?

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_VizIrBQwA8w/R7Eqg_Qp02I/AAAAAAAABIQ/TEN9mEIvLA0/s400/bush+yale+cheerleader.jpg

And don't forget that Obama and Cheney are cousins. He's a "blue blooder" just like the rest of em.

Ha! I'm related to Irving Kristol! Do you think I have any ties with him? I hate the bastard, and his son. Are you saying that because Obama is a distant relative to Chaney, that somebody from the Chaney gang paid for his education at Harvard?

[BlackTerrel]

There is a racial bias against Whites in the country. The examples are everywhere. Why is it you deny this? Are we to abandon one another based on skin color? There are quotas and a plethora of racist legislation out there, it has no place no matter what race it might or might not support.

Why are you coming after me for exposing YumYum in yet another lie? That is the most obvious lie I have heard in my life. A black kid with a C- GPA in high school can get a PhD from any University in the country? Are you effing kidding me? You actually believes that?


Non-Black Terrel. You are truly annoying at times. There is government funding for black kids from inter-cities that will provide them a full ride if they finish High School with at least a C- average. Why you so pissed? You jealous?

Dude why are you so full of shit? You just said a black kid with a C- could get a full ride to any college they wanted. Why aren't there 100,000 black kids at Harvard then?

Even at my shitty inner city school with grade inflation half the kids had above a C-. No one was going to Harvard or anything close.

You are a liar. I do not believe anything you say and have not believed you since your first post here. Show me a link proving that a black kid with a C- can get into any school they want. Prove it bro.

[Zippyjuan]

Name the scholarship. Seriously. I don't think it exists.



How did dubya make it through Yale?

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_VizIrBQwA8w/R7Eqg_Qp02I/AAAAAAAABIQ/TEN9mEIvLA0/s400/bush+yale+cheerleader.jpg

And don't forget that Obama and Cheney are cousins. He's a "blue blooder" just like the rest of em.

Go back far enough and you are related to Obama and Chaney as well.

[jmdrake]

jmdrake, it is a fact that in the state of California, black students can pass with a score 20 points lower that non-blacks. It was discussed at hand on a conservative talk show in Nashville, I believe by Dave Valentine.

As far as opportunities go, as you say, there are thousands of scholarships for students, or at least there used to be. To help black kids get out of the "hood" and to get an opportunity at making a success of themselves, there is a federally funded program that will take them to the top, fully paid for, if they graduate with at least a C- average.

Are you trying to say that black students don't have opportunities afforded to them that non-blacks don't have?

Well it's "Phil Valentine" and I've heard stuff said on his show before that's total crap. For instance he had a guest the other day that claimed the crusades "freed" Jerusalem for all races, that Salidan "enslaved" Jerusalem again, and that Israel "freed" Jerusalem again in 1967. Actually the Crusaders killed all the Jews they could find in Jerusalem. Salidan allowed Jews to return after he kicked the crusaders out. And when Israel was created Palestine was initially under British control. Jews were free to come and go as they pleased.

I do not believe for one minute your story about the California bar especially if it was mentioned on Phil Valentine. Here's the closest I could find to any such story.

http://www.equaljusticesociety.org/2010/03/california-court-issues-preliminary-ruling-in-favor-of-bar-applicants%E2%80%99-private-data-denying-prof-sander%E2%80%99s-request/

If the court isn't even allowing race information about the bar to be released than how can Phil or anyone else claim that the "bar has been lowered" 20 points in California? This is just a wild "bovine scat" (to use Phil's term) rumor.

As far as Obama is concerned, do you really think he got where he did because he was black? That's the biggest bunch of crap I've heard ever! If that's the case, then why am I not president? I'm black and I'm much smarter than Dubya for sure. Are there some race specific scholarships? Sure. The UNCF comes immediately to mind. (Although I think it's targeted at "historically black" schools as opposed to race itself. I'm not sure.) But I'm certain that people like you WILDLY OVERESTIMATE opportunities afforded to blacks. I doubt the scholarship you mentioned has any basis in reality. In fact I'd be willing to bet money on it.

Back to Obama. Go back and review his 2004 DNC speech. As you watch it ask yourself "Why is this state senator being given prime time to speak when there are blacks who have been elected to congress that haven't been given that opportunity"? Seriously. Obama wasn't nearly the highest ranked black elected official at the time. So

[jmdrake]

Go back far enough and you are related to Obama and Chaney as well.

True. But I doubt I'm that close.

[jmdrake]

Ha! I'm related to Irving Kristol! Do you think I have any ties with him? I hate the bastard, and his son. Are you saying that because Obama is a distant relative to Chaney, that somebody from the Chaney gang paid for his education at Harvard?

That's more likely than Obama getting the "C- Havard scholarship" that doesn't exist.

[Zippyjuan]

True. But I doubt I'm that close.

That is OK. They aren't that close either. Genetically or politically.

[YumYum]

You just said a black kid with a C- could get a full ride to any college they wanted. Why aren't there 100,000 black kids at Harvard then?

I don't know Black Terrel. You are black, why don't you ask them?



Even at my shitty inner city school with grade inflation half the kids had above a C-. No one was going to Harvard or anything close.

In your case it is obvious. One, you would have had to graduate. Two, you would have to be black.


You are a liar. I do not believe anything you say and have not believed you since your first post here. Show me a link proving that a black kid with a C- can get into any school they want. Prove it bro.

No, you are a liar. And I caught on to you the first time I came on this board. Do me a favor Black Terrel, put me on your ignore list before I expose you for being a fraud. Your gimmick is verkockteh that makes me vershtickt.

Why did you have to come on this board calling yourself "Black Terrel"? Did you think you could only become a member through "Affirmative Action"?

[Humanae Libertas]

Thank goodness we have a post-racial President...oh wait...:confused:

[Zippyjuan]

Thank goodness we have a post-racial President...oh wait...:confused:

Unfortunately some people have not moved beyond the racism thing.

[LibertyVox]

My my lol....discussions can go from sound bites to absolute shitznick fairly quickly here I gather eh?

[BlackTerrel]

No, you are a liar. And I caught on to you the first time I came on this board. Do me a favor Black Terrel, put me on your ignore list before I expose you for being a fraud. Your gimmick is verkockteh that makes me vershtickt.

Why did you have to come on this board calling yourself "Black Terrel"? Did you think you could only become a member through "Affirmative Action"?

Do two things:

1. Expose me as a liar.

2. Prove that any black kid with a C- GPA can get into any college they want with a full ride.

Anytime you want.

[jmdrake]

I don't know Black Terrel. You are black, why don't you ask them?


So they only tell blacks about this super secret scholarship? How did you find out then? :p And why do I know a many black kids who have 3.0s and higher and were never about this mythical scholarship? In fact every kid at my church (almost all black and over 500 members) graduates with better than a C- average. I'm sure none have them have every heard of the mythical C- average. You've been had. Or maybe you're just yanking BT's chain. Not sure which.

[ammorris]

I think it's funny that everyone here talks about how shitty the public education system is, until the topic is black students' troubles in school, and then the problem is the black kids.

[heavenlyboy34]

I think it's funny that everyone here talks about how shitty the public education system is, until the topic is black students' troubles in school, and then the problem is the black kids.

I've never argued that. The government school system sucks for everyone. :p See "The Underground History of Public Education". http://www.johntaylorgatto.com/underground/

[silus]

what is this 'black'? I thought we were supposed to be judging people on the content of their character...
You can judge people on the content of their character while at the same time making a simple observation. As much as we believe in liberty, it has nothing to do with the fact that human beings are still a social animal. We run in packs, whether it be by nationality, University, religion, community, class or even race. Its just some people get crazy in the head when the group is race and religion, but the same rules apply.

The point here is that in many black communities there are certain inhibitors that prevent education being a top priority. The fact that only like ten years ago black people were called white for speaking proper english says something.

[James Madison]

You should see similar results in Montessori or Waldorf schools, although I'm not sure if they have the same results.

I attended Montessori from first through third grade, and it was far and away superior to any curriculum that public school offered me the following nine years. Instead of forcing the student to conform to a single curriculum, Montessori allows the student to more or less create their own curriculum based on their interests. Instead of arts and crafts, I was studying the phylogenetic relationships of animals, performing long division, and learning the name and location of every country on the planet. Good times...

[YumYum]

So they only tell blacks about this super secret scholarship? How did you find out then? :p And why do I know a many black kids who have 3.0s and higher and were never about this mythical scholarship? In fact every kid at my church (almost all black and over 500 members) graduates with better than a C- average. I'm sure none have them have every heard of the mythical C- average. You've been had. Or maybe you're just yanking BT's chain. Not sure which.

It is not a super secret scholarship. It may not be widely known, but that is true of many scholarships.

A few years back there was a documentary on inter-city black kids and the problems they face. One of the things discussed was how these kids were dropping out of High School and joining gangs. A man interviewed who helped these kids talked about how some of these kids were very talented and that if they would just stick it out and graduate with a C- average from High School they could go as far as they wanted; provided they applied themselves and worked hard. The program he described was federally funded and as long as they maintained a certain grade point in a community college they could transfer to any school, yes even to Harvard or Yale, and go as far as they wanted; all paid for by the federal government.

I worked in Nashville with a black gentleman who was from Chicago, and who had been a member of the gang the Vice Lords. We were talking about college, because I was going to school, and he brought up that his 17 year old son had dropped out of school to join a gang. He said he was very upset because he son was good at math and was very bright and that he could have gone to any school he wanted on scholarships had he just stuck it out. I asked him about the program for inter-city black kids who graduate with at least a C- average and he confirmed it. He told me that in the city where he lived there where centers that if you were in a gang and wanted out, or if you were not in a gang but didn't want to join, you could walk in and your life would change forever from that day forward; even relocating the youth immediately. He told me, "This stuff these kids say that once you're in a gang you can't leave is total bullshit. I left." He told me that there was many programs to help these kids with their future, including either learning a highly skilled trade, or going to any college and going as far as getting their Ph.d, all provided and paid for by the federal government. The key was sticking it out and graduating.

Why don't you know about this program? It may be because you are from the South and not from a major city. You have not been in a gang, nor on drugs. You go to church and have never been associated with gang members. I don't know.

There are many federal programs, or at least there were, to help people with all kinds of problems. Helping them with education/career training, housing and many other ways to help give them a meaningful future.

As far as yanking African-American Terrel's chain, I think it is the other way around. I try to ignore him; he comes on here to fuck with people.

Hope that helps.

[johngr]

It's largely attributed to a broken family unit. Blacks can be as academically successful as whites if they're reared in the same sort of stabilized environment in their formative years. Government once again overdiagnoses the problem and casts blame on the wrong factors.

An Afghan Hound can be just as good a shepherd dog as a Border Collie -- the key is a stabilised environment and training, especially when he's a puppy.

It would appear that your perhaps more modest diagnosis arises from the same faulty premise as the government's: the assumption of Human Neurological Universality.

[TheBlackPeterSchiff]

Government needs to get out of school, period. The Education Bureaucracy is growing and growing and kids are becoming dumber and dumber-er.

Black folk in general look to the government for help to much. Not realizing that the govt is the problem. How many politicians have to come and say "we are going to fix up this school system" and it never happens for people to realize this.

Look up Marva Collins.

This is a black lady in the South side of Chicago in the 70's, who broke aways from horrid public school system to start her own school out of her house, to teach poor black children who have been labeled "unteachable" or "learning disabled" by the government school system. She charged the parents of these children very little, just enough to get her by. She wound up having third graders reading at a 9th grade level, and a lot of her children went on to be very successful. Oh, did I mention THE GOVERNMENT TRIED TO SHUT HER DOWN? The Fire Marshalls tried to close her school down since it was being ran out of her house and she didnt have the proper "saftey protocols" and also, the government school system tried to de-legitamize her by not allowing her children to take the STATE REQUIRED exam to pass to the next grade. But eventually with enough protest they allowed it.

A woman just wants to teach children who the government has given up on and they try to stop her! She also instilled a work ethic in those children and taught them taking handouts and welfare = epic fail.

[jmdrake]

I've bolded what I think is the important part of your post. There is a world of difference between a scholarship designed to help kids get out of gangs and a scholarship that gives every black person with a C average or above a free ride to wherever they want just because they are black. And for all I know a white member of the Bloods or the Crips would be just as eligible.

I have mixed feeling about "help the bottom of the barrel" scholarships. On the one hand, the statement you were told that "The stuff you hear about you can't leave a gang is total bullshit" is 100% correct. Studies based on interviews of ex gang members show that many of them can leave simply if the "quit claiming". (Wearing colors, throwing signs etc.) Enticing these people out of gangs by offering hope for a future does save society money in the long run. (It's cheaper to give someone a free college education than it is to lock them up.) But that leaves the average kid, black or white, who's not athletically gifted, not a scholar, and not a risk of becoming the next president of the Vice Lords out in the cold.

That said, I did find some "C average" scholarships that don't seem to be tied to gang membership, but they aren't tied to race either and they aren't run by the federal government.

http://ezinearticles.com/?Scholarships-For-C-Students---Believe-it-Or-Not,-Its-True!&id=4636056

http://www.cfpbmc.org/page27770.cfm
http://phcc.edu/financialaid/scholarships.php

Last point. You mentioned that the scholarship was initially to get them into a community college and from there they could transfer to Harvard or Yale and keep their scholarship if they maintained a certain GPA at their community college. What exactly was the community college GPA requirement? If a C high school student maintains a 3.5 in community college its no longer accurate to describe him as a "C- student" now is it? There are a lot of transfer scholarships, some are race specific and some are not, but all of the ones I'm aware of either require a certain GPA level (typically 3.0 or above) or are at least based on "academic merit" meaning they give the money to the students applying for the scholarship based on GPA until the money runs out. Also Harvard and Yale aren't know for taking C- community college transfers. Anyone can get into the Harvard EXTENSION School with at least a 2.5, but that's not the same as going to Harvard itself.

See: http://www.dba-oracle.com/t_harvard_extention_school_lower_quality.htm

If we're talking about the Harvard Extension School, I'm willing to bet that a white kid with a C- average could find scholarships to get him through community college where he could get a 2.5, go to the Harvard Extension School and get a full ride there too.


It is not a super secret scholarship. It may not be widely known, but that is true of many scholarships.

A few years back there was a documentary on inter-city black kids and the problems they face. One of the things discussed was how these kids were dropping out of High School and joining gangs. A man interviewed who helped these kids talked about how some of these kids were very talented and that if they would just stick it out and graduate with a C- average from High School they could go as far as they wanted; provided they applied themselves and worked hard. The program he described was federally funded and as long as they maintained a certain grade point in a community college they could transfer to any school, yes even to Harvard or Yale, and go as far as they wanted; all paid for by the federal government.

I worked in Nashville with a black gentleman who was from Chicago, and who had been a member of the gang the Vice Lords. We were talking about college, because I was going to school, and he brought up that his 17 year old son had dropped out of school to join a gang. He said he was very upset because he son was good at math and was very bright and that he could have gone to any school he wanted on scholarships had he just stuck it out. I asked him about the program for inter-city black kids who graduate with at least a C- average and he confirmed it. He told me that in the city where he lived there where centers that if you were in a gang and wanted out, or if you were not in a gang but didn't want to join, you could walk in and your life would change forever from that day forward; even relocating the youth immediately. He told me, "This stuff these kids say that once you're in a gang you can't leave is total bullshit. I left." He told me that there was many programs to help these kids with their future, including either learning a highly skilled trade, or going to any college and going as far as getting their Ph.d, all provided and paid for by the federal government. The key was sticking it out and graduating.

Why don't you know about this program? It may be because you are from the South and not from a major city. You have not been in a gang, nor on drugs. You go to church and have never been associated with gang members. I don't know.

There are many federal programs, or at least there were, to help people with all kinds of problems. Helping them with education/career training, housing and many other ways to help give them a meaningful future.

As far as yanking African-American Terrel's chain, I think it is the other way around. I try to ignore him; he comes on here to fuck with people.

Hope that helps.

[jmdrake]

Yep. There are a lot of anecdotes of dedicated educators taking the "bottom of the barrel" in minority communities and making them scholars. You have Marva Collins, Joe Clark (military vet and black inner city HS principal), Jaime Escalante (Latino HS calculus teacher) and Ben Chavis (native American HS principal). I think this material should be required reading / viewing for everyone going into the field of education.

http://www.amazon.com/Crazy-Like-Fox-Principals-Triumph/dp/B003H4RARM/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1280503111&sr=8-1

http://www.marvacollins.com/biography.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lean_on_Me_%28film%29

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stand_and_Deliver

It seems so simple. Just take what these pioneers did and do it. Instead people fall back into the ridiculous "bell curve" myths and assume that because a large swath of a particular population isn't doing well academically it must be because they can't do well. Hogwash!


Government needs to get out of school, period. The Education Bureaucracy is growing and growing and kids are becoming dumber and dumber-er.

Black folk in general look to the government for help to much. Not realizing that the govt is the problem. How many politicians have to come and say "we are going to fix up this school system" and it never happens for people to realize this.

Look up Marva Collins.

This is a black lady in the South side of Chicago in the 70's, who broke aways from horrid public school system to start her own school out of her house, to teach poor black children who have been labeled "unteachable" or "learning disabled" by the government school system. She charged the parents of these children very little, just enough to get her by. She wound up having third graders reading at a 9th grade level, and a lot of her children went on to be very successful. Oh, did I mention THE GOVERNMENT TRIED TO SHUT HER DOWN? The Fire Marshalls tried to close her school down since it was being ran out of her house and she didnt have the proper "saftey protocols" and also, the government school system tried to de-legitamize her by not allowing her children to take the STATE REQUIRED exam to pass to the next grade. But eventually with enough protest they allowed it.

A woman just wants to teach children who the government has given up on and they try to stop her! She also instilled a work ethic in those children and taught them taking handouts and welfare = epic fail.

[georgiaboy]

I just imagined George W. saying this.

[BlackTerrel]

It is not a super secret scholarship. It may not be widely known, but that is true of many scholarships.

A few years back there was a documentary on inter-city black kids and the problems they face. One of the things discussed was how these kids were dropping out of High School and joining gangs. A man interviewed who helped these kids talked about how some of these kids were very talented and that if they would just stick it out and graduate with a C- average from High School they could go as far as they wanted; provided they applied themselves and worked hard. The program he described was federally funded and as long as they maintained a certain grade point in a community college they could transfer to any school, yes even to Harvard or Yale, and go as far as they wanted; all paid for by the federal government.

I worked in Nashville with a black gentleman who was from Chicago, and who had been a member of the gang the Vice Lords. We were talking about college, because I was going to school, and he brought up that his 17 year old son had dropped out of school to join a gang. He said he was very upset because he son was good at math and was very bright and that he could have gone to any school he wanted on scholarships had he just stuck it out. I asked him about the program for inter-city black kids who graduate with at least a C- average and he confirmed it. He told me that in the city where he lived there where centers that if you were in a gang and wanted out, or if you were not in a gang but didn't want to join, you could walk in and your life would change forever from that day forward; even relocating the youth immediately. He told me, "This stuff these kids say that once you're in a gang you can't leave is total bullshit. I left." He told me that there was many programs to help these kids with their future, including either learning a highly skilled trade, or going to any college and going as far as getting their Ph.d, all provided and paid for by the federal government. The key was sticking it out and graduating.

Why don't you know about this program? It may be because you are from the South and not from a major city. You have not been in a gang, nor on drugs. You go to church and have never been associated with gang members. I don't know.

There are many federal programs, or at least there were, to help people with all kinds of problems. Helping them with education/career training, housing and many other ways to help give them a meaningful future.

As far as yanking African-American Terrel's chain, I think it is the other way around. I try to ignore him; he comes on here to fuck with people.

Hope that helps.

This is a very long post of anecdotes. Basically you are saying there are certain scholarships to help troubled youths.

This is night and day from what you claimed earlier. There are a million black kids who have more than a C- average from high school and trust me 99.9% of them aren't going to Harvard.

Honestly the reason I have a problem with you is that your lies are so over the top that I can't help but call you out. What you're claiming wouldn't even be hypothetically possible. You might as well claim any black kid with a B+ in elementary school immediately gets to fly to the moon.