PDA

View Full Version : Prototype Of New Hampshire Full Page Ad




max
10-15-2007, 07:00 PM
The New Hampshire Union Leader will begin the final design after they are paid within the coming week. What I'm attaching is just a crude black/white version containing the actual written text.

Design wise, the finished product will resemble the colorful and creative design elements that Lord Xar has shown us.

You can begin using this version as a street flyer....a much more complete 8.5 x 14 version of the previous one. Because it's bigger, there's room for a lot more stuff.

This piece combines it all....marketing pizazz, history, economics, positive things about RP, an appeal to donate, Stop Dreaming You Tube videos..as well as resources that expose the flaws of the other candidates.

It's a one stop education resource for voters!

I'm having 1000 of these printed out on legal-size paper at Kinkos for my Meetup. Combine this and a slim Jim and you'll sell a lot of people. ..

I won't be signing off on the final NH ad for another week ...so final feedback is welcome (nitpicking and handwringing is not)

You can download it here in pdf.

http://ronpaulpostcards.com/foundersflyer.html

LibertyEagle
10-15-2007, 07:37 PM
1. Remove the word, "blanket" when talking about amnesty. That gives the impression that he might be for Comprehensive Immigration reform.
2. We need to double-check the phone number. I tried calling it over the weekend and got some old coot from Virginia. Unless this is done, it is much safer to go with the phone number from the web site.
3. Remove the stuff at the bottom about the other candidates. It is totally classless.
4. Remove the text, "Youtube: Stop Dreaming". You provide the website. That is enough.

I am hoping that the final layout is not as busy as this one is at the bottom. It has way too much information and will take away from the primary focus of the ad.

Geronimo
10-15-2007, 07:37 PM
I don't know if it's very "Ron-like" to have the part at the bottom about googling the other candidates and their scandals.

If you leave that in I'd make a point to mention (very clearly) that Ron Paul does not approve of this message (or something to that effect)

max
10-15-2007, 07:53 PM
The final will clearly state that ad was not approved by RP

I'll take some clutter away from the bottom...but keep n mind that on a full page ad it wont seem as clutted

As for the complaints about what was written about the other gys...I consider that chicken-little handwringing. It stays in whether its "Ron Paul like" or not. RP's biggest liability is that he's too nice, so we have to be his hatchet men.

Besides, by what logic is it "classless" to educate people about the serious flaws of other candidates?????? Who the hell will tell them if not us????? Are you saying that they dont have a right to know?

Why are some of you so damn afraid about saying anything negative about those other fools?

ronpaulyourmom
10-15-2007, 08:01 PM
I appreciate the effort, very much so don't get me wrong, but I'll throw my opinion out there once more that this whole founding father stuff is counterproductive and turns people off...

Ron is trying to beat the angry old man image, this actually promotes that image, and don't think for a second that people will not think this ad isn't coming from the official campaign.

We need inspiration, hope, unity. We need the Ames mosaic ad, seriously.

0zzy
10-15-2007, 08:07 PM
Not a big fan. I saw another one, it was better, it was on the same site, where's taht one? :X

LibertyEagle
10-15-2007, 08:08 PM
As for the complaints about what was written about the other gys...I consider that chicken-little handwringing. It stays in whether its "Ron Paul like" or not. RP's biggest liability is that he's too nice, so we have to be his hatchet men.

Besides, by what logic is it "classless" to educate people about the serious flaws of other candidates?????? Who the hell will tell them if not us????? Are you saying that they dont have a right to know?

Why are some of you so damn afraid about saying anything negative about those other fools?

Max,

Then what you have done is mislead the donors. We agreed to donate to the ad that we saw and it did not have this stuff about the other candidates in it.

I am not the least bit happy about this. I ask that you reconsider.

max
10-15-2007, 08:09 PM
I appreciate the effort, very much so don't get me wrong, but I'll throw my opinion out there once more that this whole founding father stuff is counterproductive and turns people off...

Ron is trying to beat the angry old man image, this actually promotes that image, and don't think for a second that people will not think this ad isn't coming from the official campaign.

We need inspiration, hope, unity. We need the Ames mosaic ad, seriously.

If people dont get angry.....RP has no chance. The point of the ad is to evoke anger. As long as Americans feel everything is OK (which it is not) they will never vote for RP.

Of course RP inspires hope...but people don't "hope" for something unless they are deeply disatisfied with current conditions.

Consider this...there is not a single RP supporter I know who IS NOT angry at how our government is run.

If people arent shaken out of their comfort zone...RP will lose. Why vote for radical change unless you are pissed off at the current way of doing things?

paulpwns
10-15-2007, 08:11 PM
Don't really like it

The founders cannot endorse Ron Paul. They are dead. It seems untrue.

Hope
10-15-2007, 08:11 PM
Wow. It's really a bait and switch to change the ad like that. You should listen to what's being said here, Max.

ItsTime
10-15-2007, 08:11 PM
jesus christ, are you trying to lose it for Paul? I warned you all not to donate to this ad. THIS IS NOT WHAT PAUL IS ABOUT. WE NEED A MESSAGE OF HOPE!!!!

max
10-15-2007, 08:12 PM
Max,

Then what you have done is mislead the donors. We agreed to donate to the ad that we saw and it did not have this stuff about the other candidates in it.

I am not the least bit happy about this. I ask that you reconsider.

I cant believe you're starting this shit up.

If your chicken shit attitude is indicative of RP supporters then we may as well give up.

What is so damn bad about educating people about the other candidates?

If you want your money back let me know and I'll raise the difference from some people who have balls

quickmike
10-15-2007, 08:12 PM
Looks like he did the ole bait and switch on you guys. ;)

ItsTime
10-15-2007, 08:14 PM
You are missing the point we need to educate them ABOUT RON PAUL.


I cant believe you're starting this shit up.

If your chicken shit attitude is indicative of RP supporters then we may as well give up.

What is so damn bad about educating people about the other candidates?

If you want your money back let me know and I'll raise the difference from some people who have balls

grfgerger
10-15-2007, 08:14 PM
From a design standpoint it is very cluttered and unpleasing to the eye. The content is divisive and will not win over new supporters.

max
10-15-2007, 08:15 PM
Wow. It's really a bait and switch to change the ad like that. You should listen to what's being said here, Max.

the ad was not changed...

i addded a small section with negative info on the bottom...

whats the big deal?

yall dont think people have a right to know about the other candidates records??


unless i hear from some more people to keep it in...i'll take it out...OK?

Then i'll stop all my efforts because a movement without balls is doomed anyway

max
10-15-2007, 08:15 PM
You are missing the point we need to educate them ABOUT RON PAUL.

and who will "educate" about the scandals of the others?...The MSM?

Hope
10-15-2007, 08:17 PM
Maybe it's just me, but I'd really prefer it if you stopped your efforts now rather than later with the attitude you have.

LibertyEagle
10-15-2007, 08:17 PM
I cant believe you're starting this shit up.

If your chicken shit attitude is indicative of RP supporters then we may as well give up.

What is so damn bad about educating people about the other candidates?

If you want your money back let me know and I'll raise the difference from some people who have balls


Max, you have been dishonest in your dealings. What you have shown us above is NOTHING like what you showed us before when you were asking for donations. You cannot collect money saying the ad is going to look a certain way and then when you have it, go ahead and do whatever the hell you want to. That's not the way it works, Max.

I have not given up on this yet, but yes, if you move forward with the ad in its present form, then yes, I would like my money refunded to me.

As far as "balls" go, I am a woman, so I don't have any. I however, try my best to have INTEGRITY.

Max, please do not do this. You will hurt the campaign and I know that is not what you want to do.

ItsTime
10-15-2007, 08:18 PM
You are the only one thinking its a good idea. I will take that as you dont care what others think and are trying to lose it for Paul. This could have been such a good thing for Paul, praising him and his record that outshines every other R running.

New Hampshire people do not like to be told they are wrong. You are crystalizing the others base that is here. You are making them want to go out and vote, you are making people agree with the MSM that paul is a kook...



and who will "educate" about the scandals of the others?...The MSM?

leipo
10-15-2007, 08:19 PM
3. Remove the stuff at the bottom about the other candidates. It is totally classless.

Agreed and it's totally counter-productive.

max
10-15-2007, 08:19 PM
Maybe it's just me, but I'd really prefer it if you stopped your efforts now rather than later with the attitude you have.

ok...you remain silent about the scandals of the other candidates while RP gets rolled over , laughed at, and stomped on by the "top tiers"..

smart strategy...very smart

quickmike
10-15-2007, 08:19 PM
I cant believe you're starting this shit up.

If your chicken shit attitude is indicative of RP supporters then we may as well give up.

What is so damn bad about educating people about the other candidates?

If you want your money back let me know and I'll raise the difference from some people who have balls

No max, I think the point is people gave money to this with the agreement that a certain ad would be used. Then once the money was collected, it was changed to something else.

Do you not understand bait and switch and how that might piss people off?

When an agreement is made, it should be upheld.

Im not personally involved in this so it doesnt matter to me. Im just speaking from an objective standpoint, and I would be VERY pissed off if someone showed me something and asked to donate towards it and I agreed, then change the finished product to something else. Thats the same thing as a bald faced lie to someones face in my book.

If you cant see this, Id say you are messed up. Liking or not liking the ad is not the issue, its the fact you said one thing and did something else.

just my 2 fiat cents;)

Ron Paul Fan
10-15-2007, 08:20 PM
That's a pretty low thing to do Max. People donated to the ad and you went and added something that no one who donated is for putting in. I would advise you to leave it as it was or you may end up doing Congressman Paul more harm than good. The object is to make him look good and get his name out, not to ridicule the other candidates.

Mr. White
10-15-2007, 08:21 PM
For what it's worth as I didn't donate to your ad Max, it seems you are pulling a fast one on these people. Whether it will be effective or not is irrelevent. They paid for something, you're giving them something else.

max
10-15-2007, 08:21 PM
OK...OK!!!

since it's not my money...I'll take the negative info on the other guys out....


have it your way...

let the media keep exhalting the "top tier" as heros..without us exposing them

you'll be sorry in January

ItsTime
10-15-2007, 08:23 PM
Thank you. But take a look at the state by state fund raising numbers... Paul is second in New Hampshire and a close third in Iowa... Positive is good.


OK...OK!!!

since it's not my money...I'll take the negative info on the other guys out....


have it your way...

let the media keep exhalting the "top tier" as heros..without us exposing them

you'll be sorry in January

0zzy
10-15-2007, 08:23 PM
OK...OK!!!

since it's not my money...I'll take the negative info on the other guys out....


have it your way...

let the media keep exhalting the "top tier" as heros..without us exposing them

you'll be sorry in January

What was the one people paid for?

JoshLowry
10-15-2007, 08:24 PM
What happened to this design?

http://www.unitedforliberty.com/assets/front.jpg

Which design are you using now?

max
10-15-2007, 08:24 PM
Never in my wildest dreams did i think RP supporters would get so upset because I added resources for ACCURATE INFORMATION on the "top tier"...

and the...to be accused of "bait and switch"???

As I said, I'll remove it from the ad.....but if this is the nice guy mentality is indicative of this movement....we lost..

I simply cannot believe that yall would deny voters access to ACCURATE INFO simply because it's "not nice"..

you win...

RP loses

Mr. White
10-15-2007, 08:25 PM
OK...OK!!!

since it's not my money...I'll take the negative info on the other guys out....


have it your way...

let the media keep exhalting the "top tier" as heros..without us exposing them

you'll be sorry in January

Good show Max! Let us lie in the graves we've dug for ourselves. Sucks, but this is a small representation of the nature of politics. Comprimise. You comprimised your message to garner funding.

Glad to see you're a man of integrity. Keep up the fight.

max
10-15-2007, 08:25 PM
What happened to this design?

http://www.unitedforliberty.com/assets/front.jpg

Which design are you using now?

did u read the original post?????????

That is the design we are using....what i posted was just protype for text only...

quickmike
10-15-2007, 08:25 PM
What happened to this design?

http://www.unitedforliberty.com/assets/front.jpg

Which design are you using now?

Now that design looks pretty cool. Eyecatching and professional. was that the one you guys agreed on?

Nash
10-15-2007, 08:27 PM
did u read the original post?????????

That is the design we are using....what i posted was just protype for text only...

That one looks perfect. You should use this one. Nice Job.

max
10-15-2007, 08:28 PM
WE ARE USING THAT DESIGN...THE DESIGN DID NOT CHANGE..

What I posted was the prototype for the TEXT only...

LibertyEagle
10-15-2007, 08:29 PM
Now that design looks pretty cool. Eyecatching and professional. was that the one you guys agreed on?

Yes, with a few wording, font and type size changes.

Nash
10-15-2007, 08:29 PM
WE ARE USING THAT DESIGN...THE DESIGN DID NOT CHANGE..

What I posted was the prototype for the TEXT only...

Yeah it looks great. I'd leave out the google stuff at the bottom though. Kinda slimy. Take that part out. Nice job.

JoshLowry
10-15-2007, 08:30 PM
WE ARE USING THAT DESIGN...THE DESIGN DID NOT CHANGE..

What I posted was the prototype for the TEXT only...

Max, you don't need to yell (all caps). We were not completely sure what was going on so some clarification was needed.

Hope
10-15-2007, 08:30 PM
OK...OK!!!

since it's not my money...I'll take the negative info on the other guys out....


have it your way...

let the media keep exhalting the "top tier" as heros..without us exposing them

you'll be sorry in January

I don't get it. You say it's "text only" but the text in the PDF you linked is VERY different from the text in the flier that is now being shown. Which is it? Here are my thoughts on the one you linked, in any case.

- The pictures of the founders are all out of proportion. Looks really amatuerish.
- Way too much info. No one's going to read all that.
- The black background on the text is horrible. We are not selling viagra or weight loss pills, but from the layout alone you'd never know we weren't.
- Ron Paul doesn't mention Hillary. Neither should we. It's essentially free advertising for her and it makes us look like we don't have a platform of our own to stand on.
- Saying Democrats love Ron Paul won't win us voters. We don't need to point that out in a flyer meant to gain RP the Republican nomination.
- The "Founders coming out of retirement" is gimmicky. The design of the flier that was just posted (editing my post since it hadn't been posted at the time of the writing of this comment) is nice, but it doesn't change that aspect.

I'm not saying this to be mean. I'm saying this because constructive criticism is absolutely what we need in a state as important as New Hampshire. Don't let your ego stand in the way of the message, Max. And don't get in a huff when people don't understand what it is you're trying to say if you don't make things clear from the beginning. You still haven't said whether the flier posted above is the one you'll be using or if the text from the PDF that you have linked is going to be used.

NewEnd
10-15-2007, 08:30 PM
attack ads can come later. But this is the way it worked in the democratic primaries.

use 527's (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/527_group)... meaning the ads do not have the candidates ad anywhere, just some anomylous name like "Americans fro a better society" and "conservatives for family values and integrity"

That is what Gephardt and a bunch of other politicians did to sink Dean.... and because of McCain _feingold (the worlds stupidist campagin financing bill ever), nobody could even know where the attacks came from until after the primaries.

No need to associate Pauls name with an attack ad, when you can make a pure attack ad from out of the blue.

Thats politics for you, if you want to fight dirty.... which I would highly suggest, later, when the field is narrowed. :)

max
10-15-2007, 08:31 PM
No max, I think the point is people gave money to this with the agreement that a certain ad would be used. Then once the money was collected, it was changed to something else.

Do you not understand bait and switch and how that might piss people off?

When an agreement is made, it should be upheld.

Im not personally involved in this so it doesnt matter to me. Im just speaking from an objective standpoint, and I would be VERY pissed off if someone showed me something and asked to donate towards it and I agreed, then change the finished product to something else. Thats the same thing as a bald faced lie to someones face in my book.

If you cant see this, Id say you are messed up. Liking or not liking the ad is not the issue, its the fact you said one thing and did something else.

just my 2 fiat cents;)

there was no "bait and switch"...the original design will be implemented..

i posted this thing for feedback and final revisions..If i was B&S why would I be posting prototypes and soliciting suggestions?

the only change was the info on other cadidates...which...to my dismay and bewiderment - has to now be rmoved

Mr. White
10-15-2007, 08:31 PM
the phone numbers 1800ron2008?

Where the hell did I get 1800ronpaul?

Laziness I guess, news to me.

c0unterph0bia
10-15-2007, 08:31 PM
I really hope this ad isn't run. If people thought Ron Paul was a joke before, this will really seal the deal for them. Having dead people endorse our candidate is not the right approach at all.

I think you need to have Ron Paul officially endorse the message, or don't run it for fear that it will cause more harm than good. Let the other candidates tear each other apart, let Ron Paul be the good guy he has always been. He is very likable and his image itself represents the change his policies do.

You need to focus on things people agree with the most. I think the biggest focus should be ending the war which 70% of people don't want. Across the top it should just read "We're helping end the war in Iraq!". That would catch 70% of people's attention right off the bat. Then you should talk about the fact that he is the ONLY president vowing to end the war. Then go on to bullet point the rest of his stances. Anything would be better than this.

Nefertiti
10-15-2007, 08:32 PM
If you want your money back let me know and I'll raise the difference from some people who have balls

You mean men?

max
10-15-2007, 08:32 PM
The stuff about the other candidates is the LEAST of this ad's problems.

- The pictures of the founders are all out of proportion. Looks really amatuerish.
- Way too much info. No one's going to read all that.
- The information itself is incendiary and presumptuous.
- The black background on the text is horrible. We are not selling viagra or weight loss pills, but from the layout alone you'd never know we weren't.
- Ron Paul doesn't mention Hillary. Neither should we. It's essentially free advertising for her and it makes us look like we don't have a platform of our own to stand on.
- Saying Democrats love Ron Paul won't win us voters. We don't need to point that out in a flyer meant to gain RP the Republican nomination.
- The whole "Founding Fathers have come out of retirement" is gimmicky. Did I mention that already? It deserves a second mention.

I'm not saying this to be mean. I'm saying this because constructive criticism is absolutely what we need in a state as important as New Hampshire. Don't let your ego stand in the way of the message, Max.



are you friggin retarded? Did u not read the original post?

The design has not changed from what we all originally agreed upon! I just posted the TEXT with the stuff on other candidates..

quickmike
10-15-2007, 08:33 PM
attack ads can come later. But this is the way it worked in the democratic primaries.

use 527's (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/527_group)... meaning the ads do not have the candidates ad anywhere, just some anomylous name like "Americans fro a better society" and "conservatives for family values and integrity"

That is what Gephardt and a bunch of other politicians did to sink Dean.... and because of McCain _feingold (the worlds stupidist campagin financing bill ever), nobody could even know where the attacks came from until after the primaries.

No need to associate Pauls name with an attack ad, when you can make a pure attack ad from out of the blue.

Thats politics for you, if you want to fight dirty.... which I would highly suggest, later, when the field is narrowed. :)


good point

LibertyEagle
10-15-2007, 08:33 PM
Max, all the stuff you added at the bottom is approximately equivalent to the entire ad that we have now. It seems to me that adding all this text at the bottom, even when you remove the text about the other candidates, will totally throw off the aesthetic appeal of the ad design.

I, for one, would like to see the Ad, before anything is signed off on, to see how it looks before it is approved for printing.

quickmike
10-15-2007, 08:34 PM
are you friggin retarded? Did u not read the original post?

The design has not changed from what we all originally agreed upon! I just posted the TEXT with the stuff on other candidates..

dude, why dont you use that nice graphic design instead of the black & white text only one? It looks much better.:D

Nash
10-15-2007, 08:34 PM
there was no "bait and switch"...the original design will be implemented..

i posted this thing for feedback and final revisions..If i was B&S why would I be posting prototypes and soliciting suggestions?

the only change was the info on other cadidates...which...to my dismay and bewiderment - has to now be rmoved

Considering Max has the good judgement to take this part of the ad out I think it's pretty much case closed. It's a good looking ad and it's the ad that the donators paid for.

Thanks for coming around on this. I think it's a good looking ad.

Moving on.....

NewEnd
10-15-2007, 08:35 PM
Like I said... to make sure it is not missed.


You can set up a 527 for an attack ad, and not even have ROn PAul asssoicated with it. A perfect tactic, uused in the Dem primaries in 2004, and the swiftboaters were also a 527. No need to name the assassins retainer... especially if the front runners have plenty of enemies as it is.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/527_group

bighairycaveman
10-15-2007, 08:35 PM
Yeah...I'm really not a fan of this ad. I liked the one that was put in the Iowa paper of the constitution and RP's face made out of all us supporters.

NewEnd
10-15-2007, 08:36 PM
Like I said... to make sure it is not missed.


You can set up a 527 for an attack ad, and not even have ROn PAul asssoicated with it. A perfect tactic, uused in the Dem primaries in 2004, and the swiftboaters were also a 527. No need to name the assassins retainer... especially if the front runners have plenty of enemies as it is.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/527_group

Somehow I kept getting at the bottom of the page... so one more time

no need ot associate an attack ad with paul


wow, thread switched place.... strange.

leipo
10-15-2007, 08:37 PM
are you friggin retarded? Did u not read the original post?

The design has not changed from what we all originally agreed upon! I just posted the TEXT with the stuff on other candidates..

But the message has...

These points raised by Hope are still relevant:

- Way too much info. No one's going to read all that.
- The information itself is incendiary and presumptuous.
- Ron Paul doesn't mention Hillary. Neither should we. It's essentially free advertising for her and it makes us look like we don't have a platform of our own to stand on.
- Saying Democrats love Ron Paul won't win us voters. We don't need to point that out in a flyer meant to gain RP the Republican nomination.
- The whole "Founding Fathers have come out of retirement" is gimmicky. Did I mention that already? It deserves a second mention.

Hope
10-15-2007, 08:37 PM
are you friggin retarded? Did u not read the original post?

The design has not changed from what we all originally agreed upon! I just posted the TEXT with the stuff on other candidates..

Wow, Max making an ad hominem attack? Who would have thought it!

c0unterph0bia
10-15-2007, 08:38 PM
Well i guess disregard my post, I like the original add much better. I didn't like the text in the "changed ad". Fortunately we reverted back to the old one while i was typing. How the hell did the post advance 4 pages while i was typing? lol

max
10-15-2007, 08:38 PM
Max, you don't need to yell (all caps). We were not completely sure what was going on so some clarification was needed.

I'm being slammed as a "bait and switcher".

If people read the original post they'd see that nothing changed but the stuff about the other candidates.

Furthermore..I even ASKED for feedback and sstated that the text was a preliminary....

Frankly i think the feedback sucks and I'm surprised by it...but i wouldnt have even asked for feedback if i just wanted to "bait and switch"

i think some people in here owe me an apology

max
10-15-2007, 08:39 PM
Wow, Max making an ad hominem attack? Who would have thought it!

well why dont you get all the info before running off half cocked and attacking me?

Proemio
10-15-2007, 08:41 PM
Weird reactions...


The New Hampshire Union Leader will begin the final design after they are paid within the coming week. What I'm attaching is just a crude black/white version containing the actual written text.

Design wise, the finished product will resemble the colorful and creative design elements that Lord Xar has shown us.

The only question for now, is the four lines of text about the four horse men on the bottom - right? That's the extent of the supposed misrepresentation - right?

For the "good manners" thing, maybe this will help a bit:
Quoting RP quoting: Samuel Adams, likewise, warned future generations. He referred to "good manners" as the vital ingredient a free society needs to survive. Adams said: "Neither the wisest Constitution nor the wisest laws will secure the liberty and happiness of a people whose manners are universally corrupt."

Having good manners = don't be a corrupt SOB, like don't lie and stuff.

For example: good manners on a battle field is to shoot the enemy between the eyes instead of in the back <- bad manners. i.e. it depends on the context.

Listening to speeches and reading his writings, Ron Paul has no problem to shoot the bastards "between the eyes". I don't know how "mild mannered" gets always confused with "good manners".

JoshLowry
10-15-2007, 08:41 PM
I'm being slammed as a "bait and switcher".

If people read the original post they'd see that nothing changed but the stuff about the other candidates.

Furthermore..I even ASKED for feedback and sstated that the text was a preliminary....

Frankly i think the feedback sucks and I'm surprised by it...but i wouldnt have even asked for feedback if i just wanted to "bait and switch"

i think some people in here owe me an apology

Some people thought you were pulling a fast one, but you're not, so the drama is over as soon as you want it to be.

I don't think apologies are going to be handed out.

Hope
10-15-2007, 08:41 PM
well why dont you get all the info before running off half cocked and attacking me?

Oh, you mean, whether or not the text in the PDF you originally posted is going to be added to the flier that has since been posted? Because you still haven't clarified that. And no, I'm not talking about Rudy in drag. I'm talking about the other stuff.

quickmike
10-15-2007, 08:42 PM
well why dont you get all the info before running off half cocked and attacking me?

I think theyre just bustin your balls at this point max. I think everythings good now, and you did the honorable thing by at least talking about it.


Good job.

Still, do you have to use a b&w only ad? Cant we go with something in color? Maybe with something that has the founders faces on it or something?;)

quickmike
10-15-2007, 08:44 PM
Hell, just scrap the whole thing and use this one............ its much nicer.:D

This one will get ALL THE VOTES!!!


http://www.ronpaulpolls.com/gambling911.JPG

Geronimo
10-15-2007, 08:45 PM
OK...OK!!!

since it's not my money...I'll take the negative info on the other guys out....


have it your way...

let the media keep exhalting the "top tier" as heros..without us exposing them

you'll be sorry in January

You can always smear the other candidates in a 500 word or less letter to the editor.

LibertyEagle
10-15-2007, 08:50 PM
I'm being slammed as a "bait and switcher".

If people read the original post they'd see that nothing changed but the stuff about the other candidates.

Furthermore..I even ASKED for feedback and sstated that the text was a preliminary....

Frankly i think the feedback sucks and I'm surprised by it...but i wouldnt have even asked for feedback if i just wanted to "bait and switch"

i think some people in here owe me an apology

Max, this is the statement that I think got you in trouble. In other words, saying that you did not care what we thought. You were going to leave the comments about the other candidates in there, whether we liked it or not.


As for the complaints about what was written about the other gys...I consider that chicken-little handwringing. It stays in whether its "Ron Paul like" or not.

Actually, there are more changes than that, that have been made. All the text about Ron Paul at the bottom was not in the ad we were displaying when donations were collected. You said you were going to ad it, but since there is so much, I for one, am concerned how it will throw off the layout of the ad. It is for that reason, that I ask you to show us a markup of it, before you sign off on anything with the newspaper. In other words, I would like to see what exactly is going to be put in the paper. Would that be possible to do?


If people read the original post they'd see that nothing changed but the stuff about the other candidates.

Question_Authority
10-15-2007, 08:50 PM
OK...OK!!!

since it's not my money...I'll take the negative info on the other guys out....

have it your way...

let the media keep exhalting the "top tier" as heros..without us exposing them



It just looks *desperate*...the negative stuff. Glad you are removing it.

BTW, you do realize that someone else is putting almost the exact same flier in the Union Leader soon, right? Anyway, it would really suck if you both put it in on the same day or something.

Please contact Linda from the Nashua Ron Paul group to double check on that.

Here is the file: http://files.meetup.com/527156/FoundingFathersFlyer2.pdf

And here is her contact page: http://ronpaul.meetup.com/309/members/4313985/

If she lets you use her version, I would recommend asking for the original file and removing the link to ronpaulforpresident2008.com to replace it with something like www.lewrockwell.com/paul

If you need help altering the file, I would be happy to do it. I'm a graphic designer.

michaelwise
10-15-2007, 08:51 PM
Max, I like your effort, but the stuff at the bottom did just turn me off a bit. You want to make people stand up and take notice? Replace the stuff at the bottom with something like; Las Vegas odds makers give Ron Paul the best chance to beat Hillary Clinton. Don't throw your Vote away on a Republican candidate that will lose to Hillary. Or something like that.

LibertyEagle
10-15-2007, 08:56 PM
It just looks *desperate*...the negative stuff. Glad you are removing it.

BTW, you do realize that someone else is putting almost the exact same flier in the Union Leader soon, right? Anyway, it would really suck if you both put it in on the same day or something.

Please contact Linda from the Nashua Ron Paul group to double check on that.

Here is the file: http://files.meetup.com/527156/FoundingFathersFlyer2.pdf

And here is her contact page: http://ronpaul.meetup.com/309/members/4313985/

If she lets you use her version, I would recommend asking for the original file and removing the link to ronpaulforpresident2008.com to replace it with something like www.lewrockwell.com/paul

If you need help altering the file, I would be happy to do it. I'm a graphic designer.

Wow! I'm glad you said that. This ad is Max's creation. Linda formatted it and also created the backside of the flier. It's great that she did this, but we definitely need to coordinate with her. We sure don't want to waste $7,000. Linda also did the Mosaic 2-sided inserts. She's a very talented lady. :)

Maybe we can run the Founding Fathers ad and she can put the Mosaic 2-sided inserts in the paper, a week or 2 later.

max
10-15-2007, 09:01 PM
Max, I like your effort, but the stuff at the bottom did just turn me off a bit. You want to make people stand up and take notice? Replace the stuff at the bottom with something like; Las Vegas odds makers give Ron Paul the best chance to beat Hillary Clinton. Don't throw your Vote away on a Republican candidate that will lose to Hillary. Or something like that.

my thinking was this...McCains S&L scandal and softness on immigration cost us BILLIONS

Rudy's corruption and negligence got 60 firemen killed on 9/11 (radio scandal)

Romney is a compulsive flip flopper

and Fred is a career lobbyist..

I bet not one in 20 voters even knows this stuff...and for us to DENY them this pertinant info is a gross and negligent dereliction of our duty as citizens.

I mean..it's not like I was drawing attention to Fred's trophy wife...or Rudy's baldness etc....That stuff pertained to very important info that voters not only need...but would greatly appreciate..

Thats was my thinking...I know I'm right on this...but...only $300 of the $6700 was my money...and i'm shocked at the unanimous disagreement..which at first i dismissed as a sole voice...but now see that its the consensus..

As George Bush once said....this would be so much easier if I was dictator!

max
10-15-2007, 09:04 PM
Wow! I'm glad you said that. This ad is Max's creation. Linda formatted it and also created the backside of the flier. It's great that she did this, but we definitely need to coordinate with her.

We sure don't want to waste $7,000.

Maybe we can run the Founding Fathers ad and she can put the Mosaic 2-sided inserts in the paper, a week or 2 later.

it wouldnt be a "throw away" unless it was on same day (Nov. 3rd)...

Repetition is what makes advertisng effective...we need to just coordinate the eaxt days

LibertyEagle
10-15-2007, 09:06 PM
True. But we also could consider running 2 different ads. The 2-sided Mosaic flyer is good too. Don't you think that would be great to put in the paper? It seems to me that it would be a great followup to your Founding Father ad.

Hope
10-15-2007, 09:07 PM
So in what ways are you changing the flier? I hate to repeat myself, but you haven't responded.

I think the Mosaic flier is a good one too.

max
10-15-2007, 09:09 PM
So in what ways are you changing the flier? I hate to repeat myself, but you haven't responded.

nothing is changing..i sent the colored version posted here to NH and thats what they are basing the dsign on..

the only substantive change i wanted to add was the rp bullet points..(which is basically stuff from HQ slim jim)...and the accurate information on the other candidates that people here do not think voters have a right to know about and i agreed to remove...

Cowlesy
10-15-2007, 09:13 PM
Look I am all for John Rambo'ish attack ads, but NOT when they're associated with Ron Paul or explicitly by Ron Paul supporters.

I signed on for the positive ad about Ron, so I hope that one runs. Let's save the ammo for later on to put stuff out there that has nothing to do with Ron.

Personally I think Ron would be pretty pissed off at all of us if we put an ad out there attacking his opponents. He's a big boy, if he needs to lock horns with any of them, let's let him do it on his own terms. He knows we are out here and if he needs our help, he knows all he has to do is ask.

Proemio
10-15-2007, 09:18 PM
...

Thats was my thinking...I know I'm right on this...but...only $300 of the $6700 was my money...and i'm shocked at the unanimous disagreement..which at first i dismissed as a sole voice...but now see that its the consensus..


It's not unanimous, as stated in my earlier post (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showpost.php?p=276157&postcount=58).

FWIW. Your thinking is correct, in my view - I may have to ask for my money back...:D

reaver
10-15-2007, 09:27 PM
I'll also repeat a question; Is there any way to get us a look at the one they want to print before it goes into the papers?

The colored one looks real nice. I am more than likely alone in saying this but what I would do personally is take away the first person pov (we warned you) and shift it (they warned us). So that instead of "As a service to America, they have come out of retirement to advise us once again." maybe "Let us take a look at the advice they left in retirement."

That and keep the wording of the colored .pdf rather than the one from post #1.
Thanks for putting it together and promising to remove slanderous statements.

quickmike
10-15-2007, 09:27 PM
Look I am all for John Rambo'ish attack ads, but NOT when they're associated with Ron Paul or explicitly by Ron Paul supporters.

I signed on for the positive ad about Ron, so I hope that one runs. Let's save the ammo for later on to put stuff out there that has nothing to do with Ron.

Personally I think Ron would be pretty pissed off at all of us if we put an ad out there attacking his opponents. He's a big boy, if he needs to lock horns with any of them, let's let him do it on his own terms. He knows we are out here and if he needs our help, he knows all he has to do is ask.



Trautman: Look John, we can't have you running around out there killing friendly civilians.

Rambo: THERE ARE NO FRIENDLY CIVILIANS!!!!! THEY DREW FIRST BLOOD NOT ME!!!

Cowlesy
10-15-2007, 09:32 PM
Trautman: Look John, we can't have you running around out there killing friendly civilians.

Rambo: THERE ARE NO FRIENDLY CIVILIANS!!!!! THEY DREW FIRST BLOOD NOT ME!!!

NICE.

Chuck Norris versus John Rambo ----would be quite a title bout.

freedominnumbers
10-15-2007, 09:47 PM
I agree here. The negatives of the other candidates certainly need to be exposed, just not in the same ad in which we are praising Dr. Paul.

An unaffiliated full page feature on each of the opponents shortcomings could be nice. It just has to be totally separate from Dr. Paul.


attack ads can come later. But this is the way it worked in the democratic primaries.

use 527's (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/527_group)... meaning the ads do not have the candidates ad anywhere, just some anomylous name like "Americans fro a better society" and "conservatives for family values and integrity"

That is what Gephardt and a bunch of other politicians did to sink Dean.... and because of McCain _feingold (the worlds stupidist campagin financing bill ever), nobody could even know where the attacks came from until after the primaries.

No need to associate Pauls name with an attack ad, when you can make a pure attack ad from out of the blue.

Thats politics for you, if you want to fight dirty.... which I would highly suggest, later, when the field is narrowed. :)

0zzy
10-15-2007, 09:53 PM
WE ARE USING THAT DESIGN...THE DESIGN DID NOT CHANGE..

What I posted was the prototype for the TEXT only...

The text looks already good. :o

McDermit
10-15-2007, 09:59 PM
So will we see the final version before it goes to print?

max
10-15-2007, 10:02 PM
So will we see the final version before it goes to print?

of course...

jgmaynard
10-15-2007, 10:04 PM
I didn't donate, so I can't say much, but FWIW, yuck. WAY too cluttered IMHO, the negative thing looks really bad (negative campaigning does NOT work in NH - it backfires). The old ad looked a LOT better, methinks.

JM

max
10-15-2007, 10:07 PM
I didn't donate, so I can't say much, but FWIW, yuck. WAY too cluttered IMHO, the negative thing looks really bad (negative campaigning does NOT work in NH - it backfires). The old ad looked a LOT better, methinks.

JM

its going to be a FULL PAGE...hence...it wont look cluttered..

as for negative campaigning not working in NH....remember that pat buchana beat the establishment's bob dole by harshly and relentlessly attacking him...

DianeDL
10-15-2007, 10:13 PM
I just did a quick read of both the original draft that people sent money in to support and the revised draft that was up for our opinion on the "WORDS ONLY NOT DESIGN LAYOUT" changes that were made. I have, at a glance, found over 14 changes in the text. Some of these minor changes in the body of the piece and some complete revisions of the text...such as...in draft one, the last "WARNED YOU that a government big enough to give you everything you want is strong enough to take everything you have. Now you are servants to a government to which you've traded self-reliance and individual freedom, for entitlement programs and "free" handouts that steal your wages. "....to...."WARNED YOU to be distrustful of government. But you believed the sugarcoated falsehoods of ambitious politicians and now you no longer know who to trust or what to believe." These are major text changes and when adding the bad news on the other candidates makes for some reasonable concern by those who paid for the first draft shown. I think your idea to let the people know about the other candidates before they vote is good if not great but that should be its own animal.
I think that there has been some confusion here as to the graphic layout and design vs. the text layout but you must admit there are several changes in the latter on the second draft.
I think that you are doing good things here...so chin-up and spread the good word!

reaver
10-15-2007, 10:18 PM
I just did a quick read of both the original draft that people sent money in to support and the revised draft that was up for our opinion on the "WORDS ONLY NOT DESIGN LAYOUT" changes that were made. I have, at a glance, found over 14 changes in the text. Some of these minor changes in the body of the piece and some complete revisions of the text...such as...in draft one, the last "WARNED YOU that a government big enough to give you everything you want is strong enough to take everything you have. Now you are servants to a government to which you've traded self-reliance and individual freedom, for entitlement programs and "free" handouts that steal your wages. "....to...."WARNED YOU to be distrustful of government. But you believed the sugarcoated falsehoods of ambitious politicians and now you no longer know who to trust or what to believe." These are major text changes and when adding the bad news on the other candidates makes for some reasonable concern by those who paid for the first draft shown. I think your idea to let the people know about the other candidates before they vote is good if not great but that should be its own animal.
I think that there has been some confusion here as to the graphic layout and design vs. the text layout but you must admit there are several changes in the latter on the second draft.



Indeed there are, I agree. I mentioned it in passing but didn't get any confirmation.

jgmaynard
10-15-2007, 10:22 PM
its going to be a FULL PAGE...hence...it wont look cluttered..

as for negative campaigning not working in NH....remember that pat buchana beat the establishment's bob dole by harshly and relentlessly attacking him...

In 2002, there was a three way race for the R nomination for Governor. Craig Benson (who would go on to be our libertarian in Republican clothing Governor) and a state senator who's name is escaping me right now were in a dogfight. The two were polling 31 and 29 % or close to that in the polls before in the week before the primary, and slinging mud like MAD at each other.

The result? Both of them lost tremendous support to the little-known Bruce Keough, who despite polling at only 3% before the election BEAT the Senator and very nearly beat Benson for the nomination.

It's my opnion that our best chance in NH is to let Rudy McRomson spend all their time, energy and money beating each other down, and let Ron slide right up the middle, just like Keough, but a couple points higher. :O)

I've been involved with NH politics my whole life, and I'm telling you that would look really dirty here. The original idea was really good, I thought. I'd stay positive in NH if you want Ron to win.

Just my $0.02 ($0.01123231332 after taxes).

JM

freedominnumbers
10-15-2007, 10:30 PM
So what you are saying is that the unaffiliated hit piece advertisements should be put on by groups called "Giuliani for President of the people" or "Supporters of Romney for President". Great idea... :D


In 2002, there was a three way race for the R nomination for Governor. Craig Benson (who would go on to be our libertarian in Republican clothing Governor) and a state senator who's name is escaping me right now were in a dogfight. The two were polling 31 and 29 % or close to that in the polls before in the week before the primary, and slinging mud like MAD at each other.

The result? Both of them lost tremendous support to the little-known Bruce Keough, who despite polling at only 3% before the election BEAT the Senator and very nearly beat Benson for the nomination.

It's my opnion that our best chance in NH is to let Rudy McRomson spend all their time, energy and money beating each other down, and let Ron slide right up the middle, just like Keough, but a couple points higher. :O)

I've been involved with NH politics my whole life, and I'm telling you that would look really dirty here. The original idea was really good, I thought. I'd stay positive in NH if you want Ron to win.

Just my $0.02 ($0.01123231332 after taxes).

JM

JPFromTally
10-15-2007, 11:13 PM
Can I recommend you run a poll so people can vote on the design?

fightfortruth
10-15-2007, 11:41 PM
Has anybody thought about a RP mail campaign for NH. We could mail a lot of Ron Paul postcards. I know , with me, I am more likely to read a postcard then I am to read an ad in the newspaper(because you are bombarded with advertisements, sometimes 30 or more in newspapers at once-like the Sunday paper for example). I know that I heard this on the forum of a guy who was a campaign person for a few years and the people he campaigned for never even bothered with the newspaper ad and just spent their money mostly on signs and mail.

I don't know if that is true or not but what do y'all think?

Hook
10-15-2007, 11:44 PM
I like the old-fashioned layout, fwiw. We can make attack ads later without association with Dr. Paul.

fightfortruth
10-15-2007, 11:48 PM
Man, I have to say that is a freakin' awsome ad. I especially like the bottom where it talks about all of the different subjects to google for the different candidates. I have seen this ad before, but the bottom part is new. I definately like. :-)

literatim
10-16-2007, 12:09 AM
I say the ad is cluttered and someone's eyes would easily glance over it without a second look.

Hook
10-16-2007, 12:12 AM
I say the ad is cluttered and someone's eyes would easily glance over it without a second look.

The PDF doesn't have the actual layout, just the text. Look at earlier posts in this thread to see what it will actually look like.

work2win
10-16-2007, 12:41 AM
Max, don't take this so personally. What we have here is a great resource....hundreds of incredibly smart Ron Paul supporters all with the same goal. We need to use this resource to its fullest. A great example is the talk in this thread of the attack text at the bottom of the black and white ad. You very strongly believe we need to push this information, but most everyone else thinks it is bad to associate this with Ron Paul. A few posts later we have suggestions to run attack ads from an anonymous 527, along with historical examples of how this can work. Seems win-win to me! Try to keep an open mind.

Back to the ad at hand.



The colored one looks real nice. I am more than likely alone in saying this but what I would do personally is take away the first person pov (we warned you) and shift it (they warned us). So that instead of "As a service to America, they have come out of retirement to advise us once again." maybe "Let us take a look at the advice they left in retirement."


It looks like some of the suggestions were incorporated. "Ron Paul Revolution" is now in easier to read font. Also, the part that said "children" was changed. One big thing remains, though, and that is the first person POV that is almost universally disliked. This would not be hard to get rid of, either, and would not change the look and feel at all. The ad would go from a condescending lecture and endorsement by some dead guys, to an informative piece on the wisdom of the founding fathers, and why they would OBVIOUSLY vote for Ron Paul if they were alive today.

I think we're really close to a great ad.

Nash
10-16-2007, 12:45 AM
Max, don't take this so personally. What we have here is a great resource....hundreds of incredibly smart Ron Paul supporters all with the same goal. We need to use this resource to its fullest. A great example is the talk in this thread of the attack text at the bottom of the black and white ad. You very strongly believe we need to push this information, but most everyone else thinks it is bad to associate this with Ron Paul. A few posts later we have suggestions to run attack ads from an anonymous 527, along with historical examples of how this can work. Seems win-win to me! Try to keep an open mind.

Back to the ad at hand.



It looks like some of the suggestions were incorporated. "Ron Paul Revolution" is now in easier to read font. Also, the part that said "children" was changed. One big thing remains, though, and that is the first person POV that is almost universally disliked. This would not be hard to get rid of, either, and would not change the look and feel at all. The ad would go from a condescending lecture and endorsement by some dead guys, to an informative piece on the wisdom of the founding fathers, and why they would OBVIOUSLY vote for Ron Paul if they were alive today.

I think we're really close to a great ad.

Yeah I would prefer "they warned us" as opposed to "we warned you". Nobody likes to think they are being lectured to.

But I really love the ad layout it's awesome just change the text around.

Starks
10-16-2007, 12:50 AM
This new ad is like an orgy of information... I don't like it.

Thunderbolt
10-16-2007, 02:05 AM
What happened to this design?

http://www.unitedforliberty.com/assets/front.jpg

Which design are you using now?


Now that design is wonderful! I would support that.

McDermit
10-16-2007, 02:11 AM
Yeah I would prefer "they warned us" as opposed to "we warned you". Nobody likes to think they are being lectured to.

But I really love the ad layout it's awesome just change the text around.

Ditto. Warned us. While we. Not YOU.

Thunderbolt
10-16-2007, 02:20 AM
You can't say We the founders warned us... It doesn't make any sense. If you change it to us, then you have to make the whole thing passive: the founders warned us ...

Instead of looking like a message that we should all heed, now you are telling people what to do and what to think and what they founders would have said.

I think you have it backwards. It is better as a message coming from the founders. Not just what a bunch of people think the founders would have said.

It is much stronger the way it is.

Also, you get the tie in from We the Founders to the We the People implication.

foofighter20x
10-16-2007, 03:01 AM
What happened to this design?

http://www.unitedforliberty.com/assets/front.jpg

Which design are you using now?

This is the one I signed on for.

McDermit
10-16-2007, 03:33 AM
personally, I never liked the condescending tone of the ad. It's not something that I would ever want associated with my name, and it's not something I would be comfortable handing to a friend or distributing at a fair.

Take out the "we the fathers" and the "warned you" makes it less biting. It's no longer a slap in the face, but just a gimmicky informational piece.

Meh. I probably wouldn't like it regardless of what was changed. Love the design and layout, but IMO, the copy sucks.


It has nothing to do with a lack of balls and everything to do with a lack of class and marketing/media experience.

reaver
10-16-2007, 03:51 AM
personally, I never liked the condescending tone of the ad. It's not something that I would ever want associated with my name, and it's not something I would be comfortable handing to a friend or distributing at a fair.

Take out the "we the fathers" and the "warned you" makes it less biting. It's no longer a slap in the face, but just a gimmicky informational piece.

Meh. I probably wouldn't like it regardless of what was changed. Love the design and layout, but IMO, the copy sucks.


It has nothing to do with a lack of balls and everything to do with a lack of class and marketing/media experience.

Lets just do a picture of Ron Paul and the Constitution. :p

literatim
10-16-2007, 05:37 AM
max, I recommend you make the political action committee notification bigger so it stands out better.

dc74rp
10-16-2007, 06:34 AM
Yeah I would prefer "they warned us" as opposed to "we warned you". Nobody likes to think they are being lectured to.

I feel the same. I thought in the other thread it was stated that this would be changed. Whether it's changed to "they warned us......" or "we warned against......" or whatever. Somehow the "we warned you not to....." just stirs up a gut reaction to be defensive and disagree.

When was the last time someone made you feel good about supporting them after they told you: "I warned you not to do that....... Now look what happened!"

I any case, I gotta say: Thanks! It was a great job on putting this together and making it happen. This is the kind of thing that is going to give Paul an advantage over his opponents. His supporters care and will do the extra work to get the word out on him.

Leslie Webb
10-16-2007, 07:10 AM
This is the one I signed on for.

Max, we all appreciate your efforts in getting this thing out. This original ad is a great design, and I hope you will use it as is. If you are going to use this ad as it is now, I think most of the posters here would support you and feel we have gotten what we paid for in donating to the ad.

Leslie Webb
10-16-2007, 07:25 AM
s. If you are going to use this ad as it is now, I think most of the posters here would support you and feel we have gotten what we paid for in donating to the ad.

By "this ad as it is now" I am referring to the original ad as seen in foofighter's post on the previous page.

Bruehound
10-16-2007, 07:32 AM
I have professional political experience and I do not mean to be condescending or dampen all the great efforts but there is just far too much text.

We like to read and be informed citizens but we are a very small sliver of the electorate-- most voters come home from work and glance through the newspaper for headlines and bullet points. Then they watch Dancing with the Stars.

I DO love the concept of the Ad and encourage you to continue your hard work to advance the Freedom Movement.

reaver
10-16-2007, 07:42 AM
We like to read and be informed citizens but we are a very small sliver of the electorate-- most voters come home from work and glance through the newspaper for headlines and bullet points. Then they watch Dancing with the Stars.


lol, Sad but true. What gets support is "glittering generalities" that offer no substance. People don't want substance they want "glittering generalities".

cswake
10-16-2007, 07:51 AM
I'll reiterate that the advertisement has too much text and is condescending in tone.

work2win
10-16-2007, 09:31 AM
Max, we all appreciate your efforts in getting this thing out. This original ad is a great design, and I hope you will use it as is. If you are going to use this ad as it is now, I think most of the posters here would support you and feel we have gotten what we paid for in donating to the ad.

I agree. I would really like to see the POV changed, but if it doesn't get changed I dont' think it will be the end of the world.

It would be a good idea to get some group discussion going and settle on an ad before the donations start next time. We sorta did that this time, but it seems like it got cut short. Maybe next time we could run a polls or two on the starting format then whittle down the suggestions to a final draft. More input and more ideas will lead to a better ad and higher donations for the next ad project.

Roxi
10-16-2007, 09:41 AM
will you people read the whole thread before you make remarks like the ones above


The picture of the AD that looks all nice and pretty IS the one max was referring to. the example he showed in PDF was only a text PROTOTYPE of that picture... it has been decided LONG ago in the middle of this thread to take out the new text changes. YOU are confused. THE NICE PRETTY AD IS THE ONE BEING PRINTED SO ITS EFFING OVER. STOP WORRYING ABOUT IT. BE HAPPY. RON PAUL LOVES YOU:cool:

Hook
10-16-2007, 09:45 AM
Everyone has an opinion I guess.
Everyone that donated, did so based on the original layout and text. So that needs to be the way it stays. No more bigger fonts, smaller fonts, left, right, change the tone, append an attack section, blah, blah blah.
Just send it as-is, since the PEOPLE THAT ACTUALLY DONATED already agree on it.

Anyone that doesn't like this ad obviously didn't donate to it. So I would suggest they make up a new ad that they agree with and get a donation going. That is the beauty of the free market, everyone can do what they think is best.

unklejman
10-16-2007, 09:53 AM
This design is WAY too busy. People are not going to read this. There needs to be more negative space and LESS text. Please regard what I'm saying, I'm a designer by trade.

Hook
10-16-2007, 09:55 AM
This design is WAY too busy. People are not going to read this. There needs to be more negative space and LESS text. Please regard what I'm saying, I'm a designer by trade.

It's already done.
Make up your own.

Ridiculous
10-16-2007, 09:56 AM
I really hope this ad isn't run. If people thought Ron Paul was a joke before, this will really seal the deal for them. Having dead people endorse our candidate is not the right approach at all.


I have been saying this from the beginning. To say that the founders endorse Paul will come across as very presumptuous and pretentious. But as you can see from this thread people are very stubborn...

Ridiculous
10-16-2007, 10:00 AM
I'll reiterate that the advertisement has too much text and is condescending in tone.

Yeah, people do not like to be condescended to. You don't want to make your target audience feel like they are stupid. It is just plain bad marketing.

Hook
10-16-2007, 10:00 AM
I have been saying this from the beginning. To say that the founders endorse Paul will come across as very presumptuous and pretentious. But as you can see from this thread people are very stubborn...

Make up your own ad the way you like, and we may donate to it as well.

unklejman
10-16-2007, 10:01 AM
It's already done.
Make up your own.
I might just do that.

Ridiculous
10-16-2007, 10:04 AM
Make up your own ad the way you like, and we may donate to it as well.

I understand your point, but as a Paul supporter, I am just voicing my opinion that the text of this ad is absolutely horrible and will not have the effect that is desired. Plus if I took donations to run my own ad, it wouldn't make this bad ad go away.

I don't want any ad printed that is going to harm the campaign.

Has anyone even asked someone that does print ads for a living on for their objective opinion of the ad? I think that any professional marketer will tell you that this ad is a bad idea.

smtwngrl
10-16-2007, 10:05 AM
Everyone has an opinion I guess.
Everyone that donated, did so based on the original layout and text. So that needs to be the way it stays. No more bigger fonts, smaller fonts, left, right, change the tone, append an attack section, blah, blah blah.
Just send it as-is, since the PEOPLE THAT ACTUALLY DONATED already agree on it.
.

Exactly!! It seems that there are different opinions, we could talk about it forever. Going with the agreed on ad seems the fairest way, and will avoid endless debate. (I have my own ideas, but I'm not even going to add them, for that reason.)

Will the ad be in color in the newspaper?

Ridiculous
10-16-2007, 10:14 AM
Imaging if you are looking at this ad and you haven't really heard anything about Paul other than he is a candidate. You would find this ad just as ridiculous as an ad from a Rudy PAC saying the founders endorse Rudy. Only a small percentage of the people who see the add are going to search out more information on Paul. People who haven't really heard of Paul before are going to think that it is stupid to assume that the founders would endorse him.

How many political ads do you see? How often do you go to the sites on them? Probably not too often.

Looking at the ad from the perspective of a Paul supporter you know that it is obvious that the founders, if alive would support Paul. The average person who reads the ad doesn't know that. The ad doesn't really inform people what Paul's positions are and the tone of the ad is condescending, which will turn people off, not make them angry...

Johnnybags
10-16-2007, 10:19 AM
and focus members here, the ad is fine, the paper will be requested by the thousands and the press will take notice that volunteers placed a 7k ad that would cost Rudy 35k to do. Bottom line for me is that people notice it and its not offensive. McCain and most of the others cannot compete with this stuff because everything costs them dearly. Who cares if it jars some people from apathy.

Ridiculous
10-16-2007, 10:31 AM
What you should do which I don't think has been done, is show the ad to undecided voters and get their opinion on it. Did you know that if a company were to run a full page ad, they would show it to probably a couple hundred people not affiliated with the company first to get their opinion? I know you don't have a lot of time, but I'm sure you could maybe show it to like 20 or so non-paul supporters. The only opinions you seem to have gotten are from other Paul supporters. Plus, try to get the opinion of someone who does this for a living.

And you need to ask these questions:

How does this ad make you feel?
Does this ad give you a positive impression of Ron Paul?
Would you want to find out more about Ron Paul after reading this ad?

I am not going to spout credentials, but I can tell you from a basic marketing perspective that it is not a good use of money and ad space. You should do more informing and less condescending...

Plus, dead people can't endorse anyone...

LibertyEagle
10-16-2007, 10:34 AM
What you should do which I don't think has been done, is show the ad to undecided voters and get their opinion on it. Did you know that if a company were to run a full page ad, they would show it to probably a couple hundred people not affiliated with the company first to get their opinion? I know you don't have a lot of time, but I'm sure you could maybe show it to like 20 or so non-paul supporters. The only opinions you seem to have gotten are from other Paul supporters. Plus, try to get the opinion of someone who does this for a living.

And you need to ask these questions:

How does this ad make you feel?
Does this ad give you a positive impression of Ron Paul?
Would you want to find out more about Ron Paul after reading this ad?



Actually, that is a good idea. At one point, Max said he was going to do much the same thing. I'm not sure where that sits now.

Max, could you shed some light on this please?

Leslie Webb
10-16-2007, 10:36 AM
Has anybody thought about a RP mail campaign for NH. We could mail a lot of Ron Paul postcards. I know , with me, I am more likely to read a postcard then I am to read an ad in the newspaper(because you are bombarded with advertisements, sometimes 30 or more in newspapers at once-like the Sunday paper for example). I know that I heard this on the forum of a guy who was a campaign person for a few years and the people he campaigned for never even bothered with the newspaper ad and just spent their money mostly on signs and mail.

I don't know if that is true or not but what do y'all think?

Could we start a new thread on postcards for Ron Paul? I'd like to see another mail iowa campaign, like we did for the Ames Straw Poll, and a mail new hampshire campaign.

I think home-made post cards would be great for raising name recognition and getting Ron's messages across to the average voter. Like most people, I immediately hang up on telemarketing phone calls and throw away junk mail without opening the envelope. But a post card would at least get a foot in the door, with name recognition and a simple message.

I have thought of sending a series of post cards with one line messages on the front, such as "Restore the Constitution," "Roll Back Big Government", etc. For example:

Save big money on your taxes
Ron Paul for President 2008
1-800-RON-PAUL, www.ronpaul2008.com

Or, you could use a smaller font and put two or three bullet points of Ron's positions. For Iowa and New Hampshire voters you could give the phone numbers and web-site addresses for the local state HQ.

The cost per post card would be about 30-36 cents, 26 cents for the stamp and about five to ten cents for a blank card. Plus printing ink :( and time to write or print addresses.

LibertyEagle
10-16-2007, 10:37 AM
Could we start a new thread on postcards for Ron Paul? I'd like to see another mail iowa campaign, like we did for the Ames Straw Poll, and a mail new hampshire campaign.



Feel free. Go ahead and start one.

Ridiculous
10-16-2007, 10:58 AM
Could we start a new thread on postcards for Ron Paul? I'd like to see another mail iowa campaign, like we did for the Ames Straw Poll, and a mail new hampshire campaign.

I think home-made post cards would be great for raising name recognition and getting Ron's messages across to the average voter. Like most people, I immediately hang up on telemarketing phone calls and throw away junk mail without opening the envelope. But a post card would at least get a foot in the door, with name recognition and a simple message.

I have thought of sending a series of post cards with one line messages on the front, such as "Restore the Constitution," "Roll Back Big Government", etc. For example:

Save big money on your taxes
Ron Paul for President 2008
1-800-RON-PAUL, www.ronpaul2008.com

Or, you could use a smaller font and put two or three bullet points of Ron's positions. For Iowa and New Hampshire voters you could give the phone numbers and web-site addresses for the local state HQ.

The cost per post card would be about 30-36 cents, 26 cents for the stamp and about five to ten cents for a blank card. Plus printing ink :( and time to write or print addresses.


While any effort like this would be good, the ROI on mailings is the lowest as compared to other campaign marketing efforts. I'd have to look up exact figures.

But for example, if your total cost per post card is fifty cents, you get 10 cards out for $5. Of those ten the majority are going to get thrown away. Whereas, a campaign sign at a busy intersection will cost you only $5 and get seen by thousands of people increasing name recognition a little. Now, the post cards to get have the benifit of having more message on them but you have to balance the cost effectiveness against other methods of getting his name out.

LibertyEagle
10-16-2007, 11:18 AM
Please do not hijack the thread.

Ridiculous
10-16-2007, 11:21 AM
Please do not hijack the thread.

Back to my original point then. The ad is horrible.

LibertyEagle
10-16-2007, 11:23 AM
I think you've said that multiple times in this thread, just as you have in other threads about this ad.

Do you think you could give it a rest? Your point is noted.

Hook
10-16-2007, 11:30 AM
It ain't gonna change. We all agreed on the original. And there is no way we are going to get everyone to agree on something else.
Thanks for playing, better luck next time.

Johnnybags
10-16-2007, 11:31 AM
Back to my original point then. The ad is horrible.

personally I think the ad is fine, I am not interested in what a professional focus group would say one bit, its not from the campaign. I think condesending is the wrong word. It is thought provoking and requires introspection from the viewer. If upon completion of that process you are still a neocon, so be it. There is no doubt voter apathy got us to where we are today and ads like this will turn on more than they turn off. I think the calls to the paper for a copy will have far reaching publicity as well. My guess is they will set a record of requests.

davidkachel
10-16-2007, 11:42 AM
STOP !!!!

Please. Before you throw away hard earned money, get the input of a professional designer immediately. This ad breaks just about every design rule there is and not in a small way either.

The idea is to get people to READ your ad. They absolutely will not read this! I guarantee it. PLEASE, this is NOT opinion! This is certain knowledge gained from having made every stupid design error there is in designing my own ads. This ad screams IGNORE ME! It also screams amateur. I want you to succeed more than you can imagine, so please don't let your ego get in the way and believe me when I tell you that it is a total waste of money to publish this ad as it stands.

I sincerely hope you will believe me and get professional advice right away.

smtwngrl
10-16-2007, 11:43 AM
What happened to this design?

http://www.unitedforliberty.com/assets/front.jpg



This is a beautiful ad--

--aesthetically eye-catching, makes you want to read it
--thought provoking; food for thought, because of the truth of what is said
--and I don't think it even sounds condescending; it is more personal with the we


personally I think the ad is fine, I am not interested in what a professional focus group would say one bit, its not from the campaign. I think condesending is the wrong word. It is thought provoking and requires introspection from the viewer. If upon completion of that process you are still a neocon, so be it. There is no doubt voter apathy got us to where we are today and ads like this will turn on more than they turn off. I think the calls to the paper for a copy will have far reaching publicity as well. My guess is they will set a record of requests.

I feel exactly the same!

Oh, and this is the perfect ad for New Hampshire, with their "Live free or die" motto. :)

Ridiculous
10-16-2007, 12:59 PM
It does look a little amateurish from a design stand point, but not horrible.

Some more of my argument against the copy is here:
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=25536&page=2

Hook
10-16-2007, 01:25 PM
STOP !!!!

Please. Before you throw away hard earned money, get the input of a professional designer immediately. This ad breaks just about every design rule there is and not in a small way either.

The idea is to get people to READ your ad. They absolutely will not read this! I guarantee it. PLEASE, this is NOT opinion! This is certain knowledge gained from having made every stupid design error there is in designing my own ads. This ad screams IGNORE ME! It also screams amateur. I want you to succeed more than you can imagine, so please don't let your ego get in the way and believe me when I tell you that it is a total waste of money to publish this ad as it stands.

I sincerely hope you will believe me and get professional advice right away.

When you donate to the next round of ads, you can have all kinds of input.

davidkachel
10-17-2007, 01:25 PM
When you donate to the next round of ads, you can have all kinds of input.

Now that was a very foolish response. Because I haven't donated to this ad, that makes its design a good one or my input irrelevant???

I am certainly not going to insist. It is your money. But as someone who has spent a lot of advertising money quite foolishly, I do know what I am talking about.

And even though I now believe I was looking at the wrong ad when I made my original comments, the better looking color ad still has design flaws and is still condescending and misguided. You will not accomplish your goal and may even see it backfire.

Effective advertising requires professional input. Without it you might as well flush your money down the toilet. The result will be identical. But you know, I probably don't know what I'm talking about. Ignore me. There's lots more money where that came from. Right!

quickmike
10-17-2007, 01:54 PM
I was thinking about going with this ad. What do you guys think?


http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2069/1603730086_d85b5cd20f.jpg?v=0

Hook
10-17-2007, 02:32 PM
Now that was a very foolish response. Because I haven't donated to this ad, that makes its design a good one or my input irrelevant???

I am certainly not going to insist. It is your money. But as someone who has spent a lot of advertising money quite foolishly, I do know what I am talking about.

And even though I now believe I was looking at the wrong ad when I made my original comments, the better looking color ad still has design flaws and is still condescending and misguided. You will not accomplish your goal and may even see it backfire.

Effective advertising requires professional input. Without it you might as well flush your money down the toilet. The result will be identical. But you know, I probably don't know what I'm talking about. Ignore me. There's lots more money where that came from. Right!

Again, this is the ad everyone donated to, so you aren't going to be able to change it and get all those people on board. And yes, there is a lot of money left out there for future projects. Consider donating to the next one. And THEN tell people how to change it.
Too late for this one.

smtwngrl
10-18-2007, 03:55 PM
I was thinking about going with this ad. What do you guys think?


http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2069/1603730086_d85b5cd20f.jpg?v=0

lol :D

Mike, even before I clicked on that one, I knew it was going to be funny. ;)

ItsTime
10-18-2007, 03:58 PM
:eek: lololol


I was thinking about going with this ad. What do you guys think?


http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2069/1603730086_d85b5cd20f.jpg?v=0

dc74rp
10-18-2007, 04:21 PM
What you should do which I don't think has been done, is show the ad to undecided voters and get their opinion on it. Did you know that if a company were to run a full page ad, they would show it to probably a couple hundred people not affiliated with the company first to get their opinion? I know you don't have a lot of time, but I'm sure you could maybe show it to like 20 or so non-paul supporters. The only opinions you seem to have gotten are from other Paul supporters. Plus, try to get the opinion of someone who does this for a living.

And you need to ask these questions:

How does this ad make you feel?
Does this ad give you a positive impression of Ron Paul?
Would you want to find out more about Ron Paul after reading this ad?

Hell, show it to even just 5 non-Paul supporters on the street at random and ask them. The feedback should be well worth the small effort expended. I'll do it before Sunday.

I'll report back with the responses. I invite others do this too. Let's find out if this makes people want to learn more about Ron Paul.

Thunderbolt
10-18-2007, 06:18 PM
Hell, show it to even just 5 non-Paul supporters on the street at random and ask them. The feedback should be well worth the small effort expended. I'll do it before Sunday.

I'll report back with the responses. I invite others do this too. Let's find out if this makes people want to learn more about Ron Paul.'

The upside is that the people you show it to may become Ron Paul supporters! If the ad does get them the least bit interested you might as well take the time to answer questions if they have any. But, do this in NH. It won't mean much if you find out what LA folks like. You need to do this for your target audience.

SeanEdwards
10-18-2007, 07:17 PM
When is max going to add his usual diatribe against Israel and the ZOG to the ad?

Hook
10-18-2007, 08:05 PM
When is max going to add his usual diatribe against Israel and the ZOG to the ad?

ZOG?
I think we convinced him not to put in on this one.