Another free trade victim.

[Anti Federalist]

I buy from these people, not too far away from me, beautiful, historic farm, nice pleasant people and the best of veggies.

But yeah, I guess the human shit fertilized vegetables from China or Guatemala at the Wal Marx that are 25 cents cheaper are really worth it.

That sucks. :mad:

Nation's oldest family farm up for sale

Published: July 27, 2010 at 5:15 PM

http://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2010/07/27/Nations-oldest-family-farm-up-for-sale/UPI-71271280265330/

DOVER, N.H., July 27 (UPI) -- A New Hampshire farmer said he is selling his property, the nation's oldest continually operating family farm, because of dwindling demand for his crops.

Will Tuttle, 63, of Dover, has worked since age 6 to make his living from farming his land, The Boston Globe reported Tuesday.

The farm was founded by English settler John Tuttle, who came to the New World with a land grant from King Charles II, the Globe said.

Tuttle's landmark property has passed from father to son since 1632, the Globe said.

"This is a different business now. Farming at any level is a labor of love, but now the future is so uncertain. Looking forward, I don't see much opportunity for small farms to thrive. It's a tough grind," Tuttle said.

The 134-acre property, which has been put on the market for $3.35 million, has seen a slow encroachment by suburban homes. It is protected by a conservation restriction that bars it from being developed after it is sold, the newspaper said.

(yeah right, watch the lawyers get around that, there'll be McMansions all over that property in five years.-AF)

"We're not in a plaza, A lot of people won't drive a few extra miles for fresh vegetables. They are going to Wal-Mart and Target and trying to save whatever they can, and we don't have the buying power to compete," said Tuttle's wife, Michelle. "

[Reason]

It's sad that he isn't in a better location =(

[Southron]

Kind of sad.

These things are going to come back to bite us someday when China is able to blackmail us for food.

[Sentient Void]

What do you feel is the answer and/or first step in addressing this situation, Anti-Federalist? Protectionism (More government) or a reduction in regulations and taxes (less government).

[Cowlesy]

Damn, that farm passed from father-to-son from 1632.

[constituent]

Hard times bust a chump. Gotta find someone to blame...

Markets change. Adapt or die.

BTW, I believe Ron Paul refers to it as "managed trade," which it actually is. ;) :D

[constituent]

What do you feel is the answer and/or first step in addressing this situation, Anti-Federalist? Protectionism (More government) or a reduction in regulations and taxes (less government).

Good question!

[Justin D]

The farm was founded by English settler John Tuttle, who came to the New World with a land grant from King Charles II, the Globe said.


Does this mean that the land is held in Allodial Title?

[Krugerrand]

Reduction in regulations, etc would be huge. Our beloved government sets things up so that only the mega-farm corporations can thrive/survive.

However, as our economy worsens, people will still need food, and agriculture will be a good spot to be. It would be good for this guy to try and stick it out a little while longer. The payoff could be huge.

[Mike4Freedom]

Well for one, walmart gets a lot of government subsidies to build walmarts in certain areas. It is usually local governments that do this. So that allows wal mart to make prices even lower then they should.

[cindy25]

protective tariff, as used since 1789

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tariff_Act_of_1789

The Hamilton Tariff (ch. 2, 1 Stat. 24, enacted July 4, 1789, also called the Tariff of 1789) was the second statute ever enacted by the new federal government of the United States. Most of the rates of the tariff were between 5 and 10 percent, depending on the value of the item.
Secretary of the Treasury Alexander Hamilton was anxious to establish the tariff as a regular source of government revenue and to protect domestic manufacture. The former was of immediate necessity; the latter was not.[citation needed]
The Hamilton Tariff and much of Hamilton's financial plan can be attributed as one of the causes of the schism in the Federalist Party. It protected the Northern manufacturers (by making imported goods more expensive) but harmed Southern farmers (by making products more expensive). This factor was one of the major causes of the Civil War

[Live_Free_Or_Die]

I haven't heard this family farm complaining. They seem to be doing fairly well carving out an organic market.

http://www.polyfacefarms.com/

Look at all of the joints serving up their farm products on the dining page. I think these farmers are also Ron Paul supporters.

[LittleLightShining]

If he's surrounded by houses the location can't be that bad. He could try a different model, like a CSA, selling his wares direct to consumer. CSA's would guarantee him payment in the beginning of the season which would help him plan ahead and be more efficient. This is the "new" way to farm, the eco-snobs that likely make up a third of the occupants of the housing would and will literally eat this up. Marketing and community.

Someone I know turned me on to this place (http://www.homesweetfarm.com/index.htm). I love it. Wave of the future.

[Cowlesy]

If he's surrounded by houses the location can't be that bad. He could try a different model, like a CSA, selling his wares direct to consumer. CSA's would guarantee him payment in the beginning of the season which would help him plan ahead and be more efficient. This is the "new" way to farm, the eco-snobs that likely make up a third of the occupants of the housing would and will literally eat this up. Marketing and community.

Someone I know turned me on to this place (http://www.homesweetfarm.com/index.htm). I love it. Wave of the future.

Very cool site!

Someone remarked to me this morning that the story could be interpreted as directional signal of society. As individuals in a community become further disconnected from each other due to the electronic age of TV, internet, games etc, there is a gradual erosion of certain values like being supportive of your community. He raised the question as to whether economic man is solely concerned with his $ balance sheet, or if more intangible things like human relationships also contribute to his economic decisions. That lead us into a discussion of those whose core being is centered on the Now, versus those whose core is a compilation of the Past, Now and the Future.

[fisharmor]

As individuals in a community become further disconnected from each other due to the electronic age of TV, internet, games etc, there is a gradual erosion of certain values like being supportive of your community.

I think this comment is off base.
TV has been around for 70 years, internet has only served to connect people to each other, and if you haven't heard why the Wii is the most popular game system - it's not because of gadgetry; it's because its intended purpose is to be played by more than one person at a time.

No, the reason people are disconnected and have no sense of supporting their community is the same reason this family farm is being sold.
The state refuses to let housing developers build in certain places (like next to businesses), and they refuse to let businesses operate where houses already are, so existing housing rots while we pave the forests - all at taxpayer expense - and then pave more forests to make roads so that the people who live out in the middle of nowhere can drive an hour through a different middle of nowhere to arrive at a third middle of nowhere in order to go to work.

This family farm just happens to be in a middle of nowhere where they were putting houses.

This is all totally preventable - all that needs to happen is New Hampshire needs to eliminate zoning laws, and the trend will reverse itself.

[Live_Free_Or_Die]

protective tariff, as used since 1789

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tariff_Act_of_1789

The Hamilton Tariff (ch. 2, 1 Stat. 24, enacted July 4, 1789, also called the Tariff of 1789) was the second statute ever enacted by the new federal government of the United States. Most of the rates of the tariff were between 5 and 10 percent, depending on the value of the item.
Secretary of the Treasury Alexander Hamilton was anxious to establish the tariff as a regular source of government revenue and to protect domestic manufacture. The former was of immediate necessity; the latter was not.[citation needed]
The Hamilton Tariff and much of Hamilton's financial plan can be attributed as one of the causes of the schism in the Federalist Party. It protected the Northern manufacturers (by making imported goods more expensive) but harmed Southern farmers (by making products more expensive). This factor was one of the major causes of the Civil War

Analyzing Quote:
Tariff - 5 times
Hamilton - 4 times
Causes of the (something bad) - 2 times
Protect(ed) - 2 times
Harmed - 1 time
More Expensive - 1 time

I'll take two Protective Tariff Acts please for twice the protection at half the harm but more expense.

[specsaregood]

AF, they are not a victim of "free trade".
They are a victim of our monetary system. If we had a sound monetary system, producers such as farmers would be doing better. As it is, they are bound to suffer because it is cheaper to export debt than it is to grow crops.

[puppetmaster]

seems like whole foods market buys a lot of local veggies here in reno...wal mart said they were going to do that also....

[puppetmaster]

Does this mean that the land is held in Allodial Title?



I would hope....here comes my cash

[awake]

If people can not afford to buy from this man, do we force the people to buy from the farmer?

Which agency can be invented to investigate the purchases of people to weed out and stop these evil choosers?

It is sad that people can not afford things, but it is reality. A farmers reality that he might have to change to another line of productive work is no different than any other person who has to change jobs in a bust. Farmers can be unemployed too...

We favor the farmer because?

Besides, if prices of food rise due to scarcity, he can be reemployed hopefully.

The U.S. has gutted its currency and its productive capacity, gargantuan debt and a near 0 % savings rate means shopping at Walmart is not merely a choice for many, but an unavoidable necessity..

[specsaregood]

We favor the farmer because?

Because he is a producer in a nation full of consumers?

[Sentient Void]

Because he is a producer in a nation full of consumers?

Well, apparently he's not producing competitively enough in order to stay in business. It sucks, but it is what it is.

Should we subsidize and re-employ the ice-delivery-man because he is not as productively competitive as a refrigerator?

Should we forego the use of a tractor and operator at a cheaper cost and much more productive capacity in order to rehire and subsidize many ditch-diggers at a higher cost?

What precedent does this create? What slippery slope do we head down for the sake of nationalism and protectionism and at what cost to our economy, consumers, competitive producers, etc.?

[specsaregood]

Well, apparently he's not producing competitively enough in order to stay in business. It sucks, but it is what it is.

Should we forego the use of a tractor and operator at a cheaper cost and much more productive capacity in order to rehire and subsidize many ditch-diggers at a higher cost?

What precedent does this create? What slippery slope do we head down for the sake of nationalism and protectionism and at what cost to our economy, consumers, competitive producers, etc.?

Yeah, I'm not arguing for govt intervention, just saying why some might "favor" him.

As far as your other questions, how does one compete with free? It is impossible to compete when your competitor accepts unlimited debt in exchange for goods.

If anything, I am arguing to get govt intervention out of monetary policy. If you do that, farmers will be in a good position to succeed economically.

[awake]

Because he is a producer in a nation full of consumers?


In the first depression ' the farmers' were the favorite excuse for the enactment of some of the worst protectionist/ welfare programs to date. All because there was a soft spot by government officials for the farmer. Can you imagine plowing crops under to raise the prices for the farm block?

To favor one producer at the expense of another is folly.

[awake]

Yeah, I'm not arguing for govt intervention, just saying why some might "favor" him.

As far as your other questions, how does one compete with free? It is impossible to compete when your competitor accepts unlimited debt in exchange for goods.

If anything, I am arguing to get govt intervention out of monetary policy. If you do that, farmers will be in a good position to succeed economically.


Who's policy is this to borrow from the Chinese? Answer this and you will know who is driving you into the hole of poverty.


Get the government out of everything and we all have a chance to succeed.

[specsaregood]

In the first depression ' the farmers' were the favorite excuse for the enactment of some of the worst protectionist/ welfare programs to date. All because there was a soft spot by government officials for the farmer. Can you imagine plowing crops under to raise the prices for the farm block?

Yeah, I'm not gonna argue in favor of any of that. But farmers are in a bad spot because of government actions, not despite of it. Let's remove all the govt intervention then reevaluate.

Edit: I see we agree already. :)

Get the government out of everything and we all have a chance to succeed.

[Sentient Void]

Yeah, I'm not arguing for govt intervention, just saying why some might "favor" him.

As far as your other questions, how does one compete with free? It is impossible to compete when your competitor accepts unlimited debt in exchange for goods.

If anything, I am arguing to get govt intervention out of monetary policy. If you do that, farmers will be in a good position to succeed economically.

Ah, then we are in agreement... heh.

As for the question on 'how to compete with free'? You don't - this merely further empowers and maximizes the division of labor.

For this, I usually like to reference Frederic Bastiat's Petition for the Sun on Behalf of the Candlemakers :D

http://www.silentpc.org/university/Candlemaker.pdf

[Cowlesy]

Well arguments about the efficiency of farming techniques and macroeconomics trends aside, I just think it's sad that after 378 years of operation, and being the first documented working farm in America still in existence, that it is shutting down. Unless this guy was just a total dope of a farmer which seems unlikely, there are probably other factors behind their control at work whether it be policies or shifts in his local demographic's preferences that caused his place to fold.

I doubt even Schumpeter would celebrate the closing. There are still remnants of society that look favorably on its agrarian roots, and I hope we don't lose it all in favor of the modern urban technocracy.

[Anti Federalist]

Kind of sad.

These things are going to come back to bite us someday when China is able to blackmail us for food.

Yeah, no kidding, people thought the oil embargoes of the 70s were bad.

Wait till that card is played.


What do you feel is the answer and/or first step in addressing this situation, Anti-Federalist? Protectionism (More government) or a reduction in regulations and taxes (less government).

If I had my way:

1) - A 30% Import duty on every single thing coming into the country. Everything, raw, grown or manufactured, period.

2) - Sound money, elimination of the FED and default on the illegal debt.

3) - Elimination, completely, of corporate income taxation, with the caveat that corporate taxes will imposed on the past ten years of profits if you decide to "offshore" the operation.

4) - Elimination, completely, of farm subsidies.

5) - Elimination of property taxes on any farm property.

6) - Elimination of personal income taxation.

7) - Elimination of capital gains taxation.

8) - Increased prohibition of foreign ownership of land, corporate assets and capital.

That's a start


Damn, that farm passed from father-to-son from 1632.

Not any fucking more. :mad:

[BenIsForRon]

Well, apparently he's not producing competitively enough in order to stay in business. It sucks, but it is what it is.

Should we subsidize and re-employ the ice-delivery-man because he is not as productively competitive as a refrigerator?

Should we forego the use of a tractor and operator at a cheaper cost and much more productive capacity in order to rehire and subsidize many ditch-diggers at a higher cost?

What precedent does this create? What slippery slope do we head down for the sake of nationalism and protectionism and at what cost to our economy, consumers, competitive producers, etc.?

I'm not saying we should stop this farm from closing, but farming is the most important profession. If anyone in this country deserves a bailout, it's the farmer.

Besides, in a crisis, who do you expect to be able to continue producing? The giant industrial farm in Iowa that uses tons of gas and fertilizer everyday? Or the organic farmer that uses only organic fertilizer and a few gallons of gas?

[Anti Federalist]

Well arguments about the efficiency of farming techniques and macroeconomics trends aside, I just think it's sad that after 378 years of operation, and being the first documented working farm in America still in existence, that it is shutting down. Unless this guy was just a total dope of a farmer which seems unlikely, there are probably other factors behind their control at work whether it be policies or shifts in his local demographic's preferences that caused his place to fold.

I doubt even Schumpeter would celebrate the closing. There are still remnants of society that look favorably on its agrarian roots, and I hope we don't lose it all in favor of the modern urban technocracy.

BenisforRon, (with whom I seldom agree, but I do on this point) has a sig line quote that reads:


if modern agriculture continues to follow the path it's on now, it's finished. The food-growing situation may seem to be in good shape today, but that's just an illusion based on the current availability of petroleum fuels. All the wheat, corn, and other crops that are produced on big American farms may be alive and growing, but they're not products of real nature or real agriculture. They're manufactured rather than grown. The earth isn't producing those things.. petroleum is! -Masanobu Fukuoka

That includes the shipping of broccoli halfway around the world to save .1 %

The death of the Tuttle farm is the death knell for any form of self reliance and independence.

When a nation cannot even grown it's own food anymore, when a business that, literally, keeps people alive, dies after almost 400 years in business, well, your society is sick, terminally.

[ChaosControl]

That sucks. :(

[dannno]

If people can not afford to buy from this man, do we force the people to buy from the farmer?

Which agency can be invented to investigate the purchases of people to weed out and stop these evil choosers?

It is sad that people can not afford things, but it is reality. A farmers reality that he might have to change to another line of productive work is no different than any other person who has to change jobs in a bust. Farmers can be unemployed too...

We favor the farmer because?

Besides, if prices of food rise due to scarcity, he can be reemployed hopefully.

The U.S. has gutted its currency and its productive capacity, gargantuan debt and a near 0 % savings rate means shopping at Walmart is not merely a choice for many, but an unavoidable necessity..

Big corporate farms are subsidized. If they weren't, this guy would probably be doing fine.

[Anti Federalist]

See the above ^^^


I'm not saying we should stop this farm from closing, but farming is the most important profession. If anyone in this country deserves a bailout, it's the farmer.

Besides, in a crisis, who do you expect to be able to continue producing? The giant industrial farm in Iowa that uses tons of gas and fertilizer everyday? Or the organic farmer that uses only organic fertilizer and a few gallons of gas?

[Kelly.]

What do you feel is the answer and/or first step in addressing this situation, Anti-Federalist? Protectionism (More government) or a reduction in regulations and taxes (less government).

stop govt subsidizes of farms, so that the consuming public can see the REAL cost of their food.
then they will see that there isnt much difference in price, and if so choose, they can buy local.


fwiw - i had planned on a ~5 acre farm in the VERY near future. this is a very disheartening thing to read :(

[awake]

Big corporate farms are subsidized. If they weren't, this guy would probably be doing fine.


Then we are forcing people to buy from the farmer. Subsidies are government acting on behalf of the consumer and screwing up the process.


Undo the massive continuing mal-investments that the governments are propping up and I'm sure the local farmer will return. People will have more money from which to vote for them.

[Cowlesy]

From a Boston Globe article:

The farm was turning a small profit until the recession, the Tuttles said. But in the past three years, as families looked for ways to pare spending, business has faltered.

http://www.boston.com/news/local/new_hampshire/articles/2010/07/27/nations_oldest_running_family_farm_put_on_market_i n_nh/

[Anti Federalist]

From a Boston Globe article:


http://www.boston.com/news/local/new_hampshire/articles/2010/07/27/nations_oldest_running_family_farm_put_on_market_i n_nh/

Thanks for the link.

[Anti Federalist]

///

[Anti Federalist]

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[libertybrewcity]

If I had my way:

1) - A 30% Import duty on every single thing coming into the country. Everything, raw, grown or manufactured, period.


very bad idea. It would start a protectionist war. Believe it or not the United States doesn't produce everything it needs including OIL, clothes, electronics, etc etc. You name it and the US probably has to import it. If we put 30% on all imports they would put thirty on all imports and the consumer can simply not afford any more taxes. If the family farms are hurting now, how much do you think they would hurt when there is NO market for their crops.

Protectionist wars are very dangerous and if we did this watch EVERYTHING around you skyrocket in price from the orange at the grocery to store to the gallon of oil you put in your car to get to work.

[Sentient Void]

very bad idea. It would start a protectionist war. Believe it or not the United States doesn't produce everything it needs including OIL, clothes, electronics, etc etc. You name it and the US probably has to import it. If we put 30% on all imports they would put thirty on all imports and the consumer can simply not afford any more taxes. If the family farms are hurting now, how much do you think they would hurt when there is NO market for their crops.

Protectionist wars are very dangerous and if we did this watch EVERYTHING around you skyrocket in price from the orange at the grocery to store to the gallon of oil you put in your car to get to work.

Not to mention, AF didn't even list cutting all the excessive regulations. this plan would be *extremely* economically destructive.

This is generally what to do (without being too anal and getting into insane amounts of detail), I think, in this general order...

1) Nationalize then abolish the Fed, move towards Free Banking system or hard asset-backed currency (need to do more research on how such a transition to either of these systems could work effectively - I prefer Free Banking as the best system).

2) Default on debt to have all or at least a major portion of debt wiped out. Let the creditors take a haircut.

3) Cut federal regulations across the board, like crazy. Abolish Obamacare, FinReg, Rescind TARP payments, etc

4) Cut federal spending, like crazy - across the board. This includes withdrawing our military empire from around the world (not eliminating it thoguh, maintain a strong defense), end the wars, end all foreign aid, then move on to domestic programs and regulatory agencies, end subsidies (over a short time frame with a warning ahead of time), DHS, etc (for medicare, medicaid, SS, etc, allow ability to 'opt-out', and reform these systems). Significantly cut spending for and Streamline intelligence agencies into *one* agency. Some public entities may be 'marketized' (as opposed to simply privatizing monopolies) to raise revenue as well as cut spending, Etc... Let states know they won't be bailed out and must get their financial houses in order.

5) Cut taxes across the board, as you mentioned, like crazy. - Cut federal income tax significantly (with intent to abolish once debt is paid off), to help pay off the national debt. Corporate taxes - gone. Capital gains taxes - gone.

6) Institute a wide-net, *untargetted*, but fairly small tariff on foreign imports to help finance/payoff the remaining debt, as well as user fees. Once debt is paid off, the tariff amount should be very small in order to (with user fees) pay for our MUCH, MUCH, MUCH smaller federal government. i would like to see it shrunk down to the single digits of GDP - with a goal to move towards 1-2% of GDP through abolishment and marketization of much of of it.

There would be economic hardship for many initially, for sure - but it would be a temporary pain we would have to get through to move towards real prosperity and productivity again - it would also e better than the alternative of complete economic collapse.

[Anti Federalist]

That was on the agenda for day two.

;)


Not to mention, AF didn't even list cutting all the excessive regulations. this plan would be *extremely* economically destructive.

This is generally what to do (without being too anal and getting into insane amounts of detail), I think, in this general order...

1) Nationalize then abolish the Fed, move towards Free Banking system or hard asset-backed currency (need to do more research on how such a transition to either of these systems could work effectively - I prefer Free Banking as the best system).

2) Default on debt to have all or at least a major portion of debt wiped out. Let the creditors take a haircut.

3) Cut federal regulations across the board, like crazy. Abolish Obamacare, FinReg, Rescind TARP payments, etc

4) Cut federal spending, like crazy - across the board. This includes withdrawing our military empire from around the world (not eliminating it thoguh, maintain a strong defense), end the wars, end all foreign aid, then move on to domestic programs and regulatory agencies, end subsidies (over a short time frame with a warning ahead of time), DHS, etc (for medicare, medicaid, SS, etc, allow ability to 'opt-out', and reform these systems). Significantly cut spending for and Streamline intelligence agencies into *one* agency. Some public entities may be 'marketized' (as opposed to simply privatizing monopolies) to raise revenue as well as cut spending, Etc... Let states know they won't be bailed out and must get their financial houses in order.

5) Cut taxes across the board, as you mentioned, like crazy. - Cut federal income tax significantly (with intent to abolish once debt is paid off), to help pay off the national debt. Corporate taxes - gone. Capital gains taxes - gone.

6) Institute a wide-net, *untargetted*, but fairly small tariff on foreign imports to help finance/payoff the remaining debt, as well as user fees. Once debt is paid off, the tariff amount should be very small in order to (with user fees) pay for our MUCH, MUCH, MUCH smaller federal government. i would like to see it shrunk down to the single digits of GDP - with a goal to move towards 1-2% of GDP through abolishment and marketization of much of of it.

There would be economic hardship for many initially, for sure - but it would be a temporary pain we would have to get through to move towards real prosperity and productivity again - it would also e better than the alternative of complete economic collapse.

[Anti Federalist]

///

[jmdrake]

stop govt subsidizes of farms, so that the consuming public can see the REAL cost of their food.
then they will see that there isnt much difference in price, and if so choose, they can buy local.


fwiw - i had planned on a ~5 acre farm in the VERY near future. this is a very disheartening thing to read :(

Why let this article discourage you? Businesses go under all of the time. If every budding entrepreneur gave up just because they read a story about someone losing money in the area they were trying to break into there would never be any new businesses.

Some things to consider. First at 5 acres you probably wouldn't make enough money to quit your day job anyway. So don't. Use the farm as a tax shelter to offset your income. You only have to make profit once every so many hears (3 or 5 I'm not sure) to be able to write off the losses every other year. So even if you "lose" money, you'll "make" money. (And showing a profit every few years is easy. Just don't write off all of the losses). Second, pre plan how to market your wares and follow up on that plan. My family did some small farming years ago. We were able to sell some "memberships" based on a u-pick idea. But we never followed up correctly. Oh we grew plenty of stuff to pick, but my parents were always too embarrassed at how weedy the fields looked to call in the people they had sold the memberships to (high class family friends) so they could actually pick and buy the veggies. Or there was the time we grew Asian snow peas. There was nobody in the area growing them. We were able to sell them at 3 times the price of any of our other vegetables. We sold them directly to an Asian super market. My folks got the bright idea that they could sell more going to the Asian restaurants themselves. I told them that was a stupid idea because immigrant communities stick together, and if they wanted another outlet they should try another Asian market a 1 1/2 hours away. But did they listen to the teenager? Noooooo. It turns out I was right. All of the Asian restaurants politely told us "We buy only from Chai", Chai found out about it and was ticked, but still bought from us.

Anyway, I'm sure you don't want to here all of my stories about how not to run a small organic farm. But there are plenty of farms out there that are successful.

[Anti Federalist]

Timely bump

[thomas-in-ky]

Read "Everything I want to do is illegal: War stories from the local food front." By Joel Salatin. Onerous government regulation is one of the problems. Subsidies to mega-agri-business is another. We do need more truth in labeling on food. (country of origin, chemicals used/not used) Other than that, the gov't should get out of the way and let consumers decide what they want to eat.

BTW, this is the dilemma that all (land holding) farmers face. The farm is up for sale for $3 million dollars. If you could bust your ass 12 hours a day to eek out $30K/yr. (or maybe he has a wife that works a job to cover the losses on the farm?), or if you could cash in for $3 million, which would you do? The opportunity cost of that land is too expensive to farm... by a factor of maybe 5. And if there were no deed restrictions on the property, it would be even more valuable. Often times, at the end of his life, all of the farmer's accumulated profits are represented by the land he is able to hold. Usually the heirs squabble over the land and sell it after the farmer dies.

My goal on my farm is to find (and demonstrate) a mode of farming that justifies keeping this land in farming use after I die. I am opposed to deed restrictions as an inefficient/unjust means to that end. That the farmer is selling his property is sad to me... that he's getting $3 million instead of say $10 million because of the restrictions compounds the sadness.

[thomas-in-ky]

btw, this is what mega-con-agri centralized food production gets you...


Egg recall tied to salmonella grows to 380 million (http://apnews.myway.com/article/20100819/D9HM8BL82.html)

Summary: The government's successful push to regulate small farmers out of the business in the name of food safety has resulted in less safe food.

[Bossobass]

Businesses go under all of the time.

Please name a single business that's gone under in the last 15 years...

... from "protectionist", restrictive, import quotas, tariffs, duties, un-free trade China?

Bosso

[Anti Federalist]

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[Anti Federalist]

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[Anti Federalist]

Another bump for SV.

[ClayTrainor]

How many threads do we need to bump in order debate the same friggin issue, lol.

[Anti Federalist]

How many threads do we need to bump in order debate the same friggin issue, lol.

Killjoy.

No seriously, if the mods feel that it is excessive, they can move or merge as needed.

I'm bumping because the debate continues in these threads, with, to my mind, both sides making valid points.

[denison]

But yeah, I guess the human shit fertilized vegetables from China or Guatemala at the Wal Marx that are 25 cents cheaper are really worth it.



don't worry i'm sure they only use sh!t as fertilizer for your food. calm down. :D