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Galileo Galilei
07-25-2010, 07:27 PM
Debunking the Constitutional Accountability Center

Claim:

“Far from being ‘very afraid’ of federal government, the Founders were quite concerned with protecting the United States from invading foreign armies and trusted the federal government to protect the citizenry against the evils of ‘factions,’ as famously elaborated by James Madison in Federalist Paper No. 10” (p. 4)

In other words, the CAC is, among other things, suggesting that in Federalist Paper No. 10, James Madison suggested that the federal government would protect the citizenry from the evils of factions.

Counter-Claim:

First, in Federalist Paper No. 10, Madison explains what a faction is in the following way:


By a faction, I understand a number of citizens, whether amounting to a majority or a minority of the whole, who are united and actuated by some common impulse of passion, or of interest, adverse to the rights of other citizens, or to the permanent and aggregate interests of the community.

According to the definition that Madison sets out, the federal government itself could be a faction. Therefore, it is nonsensical to suggest that the federal government was the go-to entity to protect citizens against the evils of factions since it could be the entity producing those very evils.

Second, the ways that Madison actually proposed to fight the evils of factions are the following:


Either the existence of the same passion or interest in a majority at the same time, must be prevented; or the majority, having such co-existent passion or interest, must be rendered, by their number and local situation, unable to concert and carry into effect schemes of oppression.

To guard against the same passion or interest in a majority at the same, the nation must have a large enough citizenry such that its members and its members’ views become heterogeneous. To guard against a majority that does have a co-existent passion, the nation must have a large enough territory such that they will be spread out and unable to act in concert. These are the lessons from Madison and Federalist No. 10 on how to combat the evils of faction; the answer is clearly not to rely on the federal government, which could very well be a faction itself.

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Claim:

http://www.libertycentral.org/debunking-the-constitutional-accountability-center-2010-07

heavenlyboy34
07-25-2010, 07:31 PM
I've read that paper about factions a while ago, and it's really only relevant in a coercive government. Factions, in a voluntary society, would serve their interests well in the public debate over issues. Madison made a lot of mistakes like this, but was still nowhere near as bad as the Hamiltonian gang.

Galileo Galilei
07-25-2010, 07:35 PM
I've read that paper about factions a while ago, and it's really only relevant in a coercive government. Factions, in a voluntary society, would serve their interests well in the public debate over issues. Madison made a lot of mistakes like this, but was still nowhere near as bad as the Hamiltonian gang.

Factions are not usually part of the government. For example, the New World Order is a faction. Good luck finding a "voluntary society" that the NWO has not butted into.

heavenlyboy34
07-25-2010, 08:01 PM
Factions are not usually part of the government. For example, the New World Order is a faction. Good luck finding a "voluntary society" that the NWO has not butted into.

Yes, but the liberty caucus is also a faction-not to mention C4L, JBS, etc. ;) A voluntary society unmolested by the NWO? There are plenty of them-just not many at the national level. Do you think the GOA is infiltrated by the NWO? :rolleyes:

The NWO is mostly after the big centralized operations to manipulate the masses. This is why MSM is truly scum, but local media can be good.