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Matt Collins
07-21-2010, 07:59 AM
Here's an awesome opportunity for a libertarian with a bachelor's degree: You can now get your Master's Degree in Liberty Studies online from the University of Illinois at Springfield

SOURCE:
http://www.humblelibertarian.com/2010/07/liberty-studies-u-of-illinois.html

johngr
07-21-2010, 08:31 AM
That's right up there with Chicano Studies on my education options list.

ChaosControl
07-21-2010, 09:51 AM
Wouldn't getting a worthless degree be fiscally liberal?

haaaylee
07-21-2010, 12:20 PM
Wtf would you do with that degree?


"Yeah, I have a degree in 'Freedom' so I can believe I can bring a lot to the table . . . like, showing how to not be a slave? People need to know these things in the work place . . . "

LibertyStudies
07-27-2010, 04:22 PM
The Liberty Studies program is very appealing to pro-liberty scholars, leaders, and employers: Jan Narveson (author of The Libertarian Idea), Alexander McCobin (Students For Liberty), Jeff Frazee (Young Americans for Liberty), Scott Bullock (Institute for Justice), and William Kline (Center for Liberty Studies) are just some of the people involved in Liberty Studies.

The Liberty Studies program provides more academic liberty in the degree program itself, which in turn provides more professional opportunities for a pro-liberty career: Students can complete up to 12 student-designed credits. Unlike the courses in common degree programs, these courses can include work, internship, and applied learning. For example, students can earn credit for political campaigning, for working professionally in a non-profit organization, or for writing a book.

I cannot imagine a better degree program for anyone who wants to pursue a pro-liberty career.

Comments like "WTF", "worthless degree", and "up there with Chicano Studies" do not reflect any research on this topic...

- Daniel Oliver, M.A., Liberty Studies, 2011

libertybrewcity
07-27-2010, 05:05 PM
funny that you posted this. i was googling something today and came across this..

Humanae Libertas
07-27-2010, 05:06 PM
Just as useless as getting a degree in Film, Music, and Art.

james1906
07-27-2010, 09:32 PM
You can have the freedom to choose if you want to work at Borders or Barnes and Noble.

paulpwns
07-27-2010, 09:34 PM
The degree is only worthless if you make it worthless.

I am sure some people like myself with an *worthless degree* in Political Science could use this masters degree to get a job with YAL, CFL, right to work, and other various political groups.

Why the hate?

ammorris
07-27-2010, 09:35 PM
Has it occurred to anyone here that some people actually go to college because they want to learn things, not to get a job?

silus
07-27-2010, 09:40 PM
You want liberty? Attend schools like Brown University that allow you to shape your own curriculum.

LibertyStudies
07-27-2010, 10:47 PM
You want liberty? Attend schools like Brown University that allow you to shape your own curriculum.

The program at UIS allows students to shape their own curriculum - and not only shape it, but design it and title it as they wish - including designing and titling some of their own courses.

Comparing this student-designed, student-titled program to a school that allows less student shaping does not reflect any research on this topic...

LibertyStudies
07-27-2010, 10:55 PM
Just as useless as getting a degree in Film, Music, and Art.

The Liberty Studies program is very appealing to pro-liberty scholars, leaders, and employers: Jan Narveson (author of The Libertarian Idea), Alexander McCobin (Students For Liberty), Jeff Frazee (Young Americans for Liberty), Scott Bullock (Institute for Justice), and William Kline (Center for Liberty Studies) are just some of the people involved in Liberty Studies already.

Saying that such a degree is "useless" does not reflect any research on this topic...

LibertyStudies
07-27-2010, 11:19 PM
Has it occurred to anyone here that some people actually go to college because they want to learn things, not to get a job?

There is no need to cede a false point based on false premises and no research...

The degree program is an exceptional opportunity. Liberty Studies provides both the benefits of learning something meaningful and to prepare a student for a career. The first student enrolled (myself) has already received 1. an invitation to an all-expenses-paid academic seminar, 2. a job (which includes college credit during the program), and 3. the privilege of studying under Jan Narveson.

See my prior posts on how this opportunity is perceived as well as how it accommodates each student's career interests.

LibertyStudies
07-27-2010, 11:28 PM
You can have the freedom to choose if you want to work at Borders or Barnes and Noble.

Or if I wanted to study under William Kline, the founder of Liberty Studies, and a libertarian legend like Jan Narveson, instead of working at Borders selling their books, I could be enrolled in the Liberty Studies degree program.

Oh wait, I already am... Cheers!

silus
07-27-2010, 11:48 PM
Has it occurred to anyone here that some people actually go to college because they want to learn things, not to get a job?
Thats what libraries are for. IMO, you can't justify insane tuition costs, being gouged for textbooks like you're buying lunch at Disney Land, and paying out the ass for parking just to "learn."



Or if I wanted to study under a libertarian legend like Jan Narveson, instead of working at Borders selling his books, I could be enrolled in the Liberty Studies degree program.

Oh wait, I already am... Cheers!
How about I read his books and sit in on his lectures and avoid paying for a worthless degree...

BuddyRey
07-28-2010, 01:28 AM
Let us know when they develop matching Bachelor's and Associate's programs. Not all of us in the liberty community are college-educated.

erowe1
07-28-2010, 12:18 PM
Has it occurred to anyone here that some people actually go to college because they want to learn things, not to get a job?

Has it occurred to anyone here that you can learn things without spending tens of thousands on tuition going to college?

erowe1
07-28-2010, 12:20 PM
Jan Narveson (author of The Libertarian Idea), Alexander McCobin (Students For Liberty), Jeff Frazee (Young Americans for Liberty), Scott Bullock (Institute for Justice), and William Kline (Center for Liberty Studies) are just some of the people involved in Liberty Studies already.

What exactly do you mean by "involved in"?

0zzy
07-28-2010, 12:43 PM
Just as useless as getting a degree in Film, Music, and Art.

really? Because learning video production skills isn't a real skill that should be learned?

Matt Collins
07-28-2010, 12:48 PM
Has it occurred to anyone here that you can learn things without spending tens of thousands on tuition going to college?
of course. Except that college is more about getting a shingle on the wall for credibility than it is about gaining knowledge.

erowe1
07-28-2010, 01:00 PM
of course. Except that college is more about getting a shingle on the wall for credibility than it is about gaining knowledge.

Yeah, I get that. My comment was in response to the post I was quoting. I don't want to be negative about this program, since I really don't know anything about it. And, since I'm going on something like 13 years of college just to get a degree that will qualify me to do nothing other than teach in college so that other people can get the same degree to qualify them to teach the same thing and so on, with nothing being produced along the way other than books, I'm in no position to criticize it. But if the point of a Masters in Liberty is the credential, I'm skeptical about how valuable that credential is. It might well open doors I've never considered, but I'm skeptical.

bobbyw24
07-28-2010, 01:12 PM
wouldn't getting a worthless degree be fiscally liberal?

yeah--like getting a law degree

LibertyStudies
07-28-2010, 01:51 PM
What exactly do you mean by "involved in"?

Jan Narveson is on the academic advisory board the Center for Liberty Studies, and so is Scott Bullock. Narveson is also serving as a mentor for me this Spring for a customized course on libertarianism. Both Alexander and Jeff are officially on the first Liberty Studies degree committee right now. William Kline is the professor at UIS, and he is the leader of the Center for Liberty Studies.

LibertyStudies
07-28-2010, 02:00 PM
Thats what libraries are for. IMO, you can't justify insane tuition costs, being gouged for textbooks like you're buying lunch at Disney Land, and paying out the ass for parking just to "learn."


How about I read his books and sit in on his lectures and avoid paying for a worthless degree...


On the former, UIS offers one of the lowest tuition options in the nation AND you can actually receive credit for professionally-oriented project credits (including paid work, which is what I am doing as a part of my degree). Again, a comment that does not reflect any research on this topic...

On the latter, please stop fantasizing about sitting in on fantasy lectures that you can't sit in on. Yet again, another comment that does not reflect any research on this topic...

Golding
07-28-2010, 02:29 PM
Just imagine the damage done if such a degree actually became widely regarded. You'd actually have to have a degree in liberty to justify that you know what you're talking about. What's more, it's not so much knowledge of liberty, but having fulfilled a set of requirements that an institution regards as "liberty".

Economics has suffered from this as well. Whenever economics is entered into political debate, we're always told about however many thousands of people with economics degrees agree with whatever plan, and we're supposed to accept it even if our own experience says otherwise. More often than not, these individuals have spent years learning only one model of economic theory (Keynesian) because that's what schools require. I can't count the number of times I've disagreed with an article someone shows me when it's written by Paul Krugman, and the response is "What, you think you know more about economics than someone with a Nobel Prize in it?" Well, yes. If he's wrong, then no material symbol in the world can make up for it. Status is bullshit if you already have the knowledge.

LibertyStudies
07-28-2010, 02:43 PM
Just imagine the damage done if such a degree actually became widely regarded. You'd actually have to have a degree in liberty to justify that you know what you're talking about. What's more, it's not so much knowledge of liberty, but having fulfilled a set of requirements that an institution regards as "liberty".

Economics has suffered from this as well. Whenever economics is entered into political debate, we're always told about however many thousands of people with economics degrees agree with whatever plan, and we're supposed to accept it even if our own experience says otherwise. More often than not, these individuals have spent years learning only one model of economic theory (Keynesian) because that's what schools require. I can't count the number of times I've disagreed with an article someone shows me when it's written by Paul Krugman, and the response is "What, you think you know more about economics than someone with a Nobel Prize in it?" Well, yes. If he's wrong, then no material symbol in the world can make up for it. Status is bullshit if you already have the knowledge.

Liberty Studies is a grave threat to liberty? In what parallel universe? :confused: LOL!

Only if those who value liberty avoid the academic field would those who are hostile to liberty be able to take it over. In reality, many liberty loving people are already engaged in Liberty Studies. Just look at the academic advisory board of the Center for Liberty Studies.

Your discouraging comment is ironic, because the only way Liberty Studies CAN be taken over is if those who truly value liberty are discouraged from engaging in Liberty Studies in the first place. :rolleyes: Just "imagine the damage", indeed.

LibertyStudies
07-28-2010, 03:47 PM
Yeah, I get that. My comment was in response to the post I was quoting. I don't want to be negative about this program, since I really don't know anything about it. And, since I'm going on something like 13 years of college just to get a degree that will qualify me to do nothing other than teach in college so that other people can get the same degree to qualify them to teach the same thing and so on, with nothing being produced along the way other than books, I'm in no position to criticize it. But if the point of a Masters in Liberty is the credential, I'm skeptical about how valuable that credential is. It might well open doors I've never considered, but I'm skeptical.

I'd like to suggest that you contact the degree program to get your questions answered. As you seem to have noticed, people in this forum reflect their moods more than they reflect actual research. As a student in this program, I highly recommend it. But the next step to figuring this out for yourself is to contact the Liberty Studies professor from the Center for Liberty Studies. William E. Kline. He can be reached at wklin2 [at] uis.edu which of course you already knew if you read the link in the original post.

t0rnado
07-28-2010, 08:06 PM
Enjoy collecting unemployment, while talking about the time you learned how immoral welfare was in college.

james1906
07-28-2010, 08:15 PM
The degree is only worthless if you make it worthless.

I am sure some people like myself with an *worthless degree* in Political Science could use this masters degree to get a job with YAL, CFL, right to work, and other various political groups.

Why the hate?

I spent thousands of dollars on college and all I got was this unpaid internship.

Golding
07-28-2010, 08:42 PM
Liberty Studies is a grave threat to liberty? In what parallel universe? :confused: LOL!

Only if the pro-liberty community avoids the academic field would the anti-liberty community be able to take it over. In reality, the pro-liberty community is already engaged in Liberty Studies. Just look at the academic advisory board of the Center for Liberty Studies.

Your discouraging comment is ironic, because the only way Liberty Studies CAN be taken over is if the pro-liberty community is discouraged from engaging in Liberty Studies in the first place. :rolleyes: Just "imagine the damage", indeed.I'm quite impressed at how you've mastered the current president's techniques of debate. Apply a false label to someone with a view that questions something you support ("Liberty Studies is a grave threat to liberty?") and ridicule that false label as though it wasn't manufactured by you on the fly. Did you learn that approach in your courses, or is it a natural talent of your own? Personally, I'm more fond of the approach of backing up an opinion with an example... you know, the thing I actually did.

So, who is this insidious "anti-liberty" community? How exactly do universities screen out such individuals from selecting a liberty major? How does the "pro-liberty community's" (likewise, whomever that may be) presence nullify the fact that the veracity of University of Illinois' concept of liberty is likely suspect?

I admire your quest to shill this product against even the slightest of naysayers, but the bottom line is I'm not quite sold on it. The very existence of an entity telling students, "This is liberty and if you take these courses you will officially be informed of the concept" strikes me as contradictory in and of itself. The idea that anyone ("pro-liberty" or not) be given extra credence based on a document saying they've taken a few classes, distracting to the strength of their argument, in a concept as fundamental as liberty is not appealing to me.

LibertyStudies
07-28-2010, 09:35 PM
I'm quite impressed at how you've mastered the current president's techniques of debate. Apply a false label to someone with a view that questions something you support ("Liberty Studies is a grave threat to liberty?") and ridicule that false label as though it wasn't manufactured by you on the fly. Did you learn that approach in your courses, or is it a natural talent of your own? Personally, I'm more fond of the approach of backing up an opinion with an example... you know, the thing I actually did.

So, who is this insidious "anti-liberty" community? How exactly do universities screen out such individuals from selecting a liberty major? How does the "pro-liberty community's" (likewise, whomever that may be) presence nullify the fact that the veracity of University of Illinois' concept of liberty is likely suspect?

I admire your quest to shill this product against even the slightest of naysayers, but the bottom line is I'm not quite sold on it. The very existence of an entity telling students, "This is liberty and if you take these courses you will officially be informed of the concept" strikes me as contradictory in and of itself. The idea that anyone ("pro-liberty" or not) be given extra credence based on a document saying they've taken a few classes, distracting to the strength of their argument, in a concept as fundamental as liberty is not appealing to me.

The degree program is student-designed, which is something you would have known if you would have done even the slightest bit of research on this topic.

1. It can include 12 credits designed by the student (for example, I am studying under Jan Narveson for 4 credits, and working professionally for another 4)
2. The thesis/project is designed by the student (another 4 credits)
3. The courses themselves are selected by the student (for example, only 2 of my classes are from the list of suggested Liberty Studies classes - and only because I chose them - and the rest of the classes were all my choice)

This is NOT a typical, authoritarian, top-down, a.k.a. upside-down degree program. Stop assuming that all of academia runs that way. There is a great deal of academic liberty in this specific program, which negates your concern about academic authoritarianism completely. Frankly, this is simply not something you would not ranting about if you had done even the slightest bit of research on this topic.

More importantly, the point you chided remains valid: if people who value liberty were to disengage from Liberty Studies, the academic field could be taken over by those who are hostile to liberty. This is not something to scoff at. This is reality. If everyone involved in Liberty Studies felt the way you did and exited the academic field, it would become a self-fulfilling prophecy that would, indeed, do unimaginable damage to liberty.

You need to take a step back and actually research this topic before faulting me for filleting your opinion.

This Liberty Studies program is the study OF liberty, BY liberty, FOR liberty, and it is here to stay. And the destiny of the academic field is in the hands of those who pursue it.

LibertyStudies
07-28-2010, 09:43 PM
Enjoy collecting unemployment, while talking about the time you learned how immoral welfare was in college.

Sarcasm meets irony: I already have a paid job as a direct result of being in this program, which I am actually receiving credit for while pursuing this degree... Cheers!

LibertyStudies
07-28-2010, 09:45 PM
I spent thousands of dollars on college and all I got was this unpaid internship.

Sarcasm meets irony: I already have a paid job as a direct result of being in this program, which I am actually receiving credit for while pursuing this degree... Cheers!

james1906
07-28-2010, 09:46 PM
Sarcasm meets irony: I already have a paid job as a direct result of being in this program, which I am actually receiving credit for while pursuing this degree... Cheers!

I'll bite...what do you do?

LibertyStudies
07-28-2010, 09:50 PM
I'll bite...what do you do?

I'm working for the Leadership Institute this Fall, and the income will cover the cost of the entire semester (plus some).

james1906
07-28-2010, 09:52 PM
Is that permanent?

LibertyStudies
07-28-2010, 10:09 PM
Is that permanent?

As I already planned out in my degree proposal, that is for the fall semester. I was also invited to an all-expenses-paid academic seminar, funded by Liberty Fund, and organized by ISI.

For the spring semester, I proposed and was approved for a tutorial and a closure project:
- The tutorial will be on libertarianism, under Jan Narveson
- The closure project will likely be writing a book (though I get to make my decision in the Spring)

If you can remember to ask, feel free to message me about the final result of my degree in Liberty Studies and which direction I went for the long-term. I'll have that information in the summer of 2011 -- being invited to an all-expenses paid academic seminar, studying under Jan Narveson, getting hired by the Leadership Institute, and having Jeff Frazee (YAL) and Alexander McCobin (SFL) on the first Liberty Studies degree committee are all good indicators of its appeal.

james1906
07-28-2010, 10:29 PM
And when all that is over?

LibertyStudies
07-28-2010, 10:31 PM
And when all that is over?

Like I said, "if you can remember to ask, feel free to message me about the final result of my degree in Liberty Studies and which direction I went for the long-term. I'll have that information in the summer of 2011" -- being invited to an all-expenses paid academic seminar, studying under Jan Narveson, getting hired by the Leadership Institute, and having Jeff Frazee (YAL) and Alexander McCobin (SFL) on the first Liberty Studies degree committee are all good indicators of its appeal.

Live_Free_Or_Die
07-28-2010, 10:32 PM
Liberty now has a Liberty Cartel and to gain admission you need a worthless degree from the Liberty Students program?

LibertyStudies
07-28-2010, 10:36 PM
Liberty now has a Liberty Cartel and to gain admission you need a worthless degree from the Liberty Students program?

This does not reflect any research on this topic. As previously discussed, the program is not perceived as "worthless" by pro-liberty scholars, leaders, and employers. And there is no authoritarian "cartel" -- the degree is student-designed...

Live_Free_Or_Die
07-28-2010, 11:07 PM
This does not reflect any research on this topic. As previously discussed, the program is not perceived as "worthless" by pro-liberty scholars, leaders, and employers. And there is no authoritarian "cartel" -- the degree is student-designed...

It is by this pro liberty scholar, leader, and employer.

Golding
07-28-2010, 11:10 PM
The degree program is student-designed, which is something you would have known if you would have done even the slightest bit of research on this topic.

1. It can include 12 credits designed by the student (for example, I am studying under Jan Narveson for 4 credits, and working professionally for another 4)
2. The thesis/project is designed by the student (another 4 credits)
3. The courses themselves are selected by the student (for example, only 2 of my classes are from the list of suggested Liberty Studies classes - and only because I chose them - and the rest of the classes were all my choice)

This is NOT a typical, authoritarian, top-down, a.k.a. upside-down degree program. Stop assuming that all of academia runs that way. There is a great deal of academic liberty in this specific program, which negates your concern about academic authoritarianism completely. Frankly, this is simply not something you would not ranting about if you had done even the slightest bit of research on this topic.

More importantly, the point you chided remains valid: if people who value liberty were to disengage from Liberty Studies, the academic field could be taken over by those who are hostile to liberty. This is not something to scoff at. This is reality. If everyone involved in Liberty Studies felt the way you did and exited the academic field, it would become a self-fulfilling prophecy that would, indeed, do unimaginable damage to liberty.

You need to take a step back and actually research this topic before faulting me for filleting your opinion.

This Liberty Studies program is the study OF liberty, BY liberty, FOR liberty, and it is here to stay. And the destiny of the academic field is in the hands of those who pursue it.
Such irrelevancies. Whether it's student-designed doesn't do all that much about the things that concern me about degrees like this. The economics degree at my school was set up in a very similar way, with X number of credits chosen from a list of topics chosen by the student, with projects designed by the student. The trouble you run into is when the list of classes are all from the same Keynesian model, and all the advisers for your projects are Keynesians themselves. I'm sure you can see how even with the guise of freedom, you're really more free educating yourself. It's not that I think you've made a bad career choice. I'm very happy for you that you take such pride in your degree. It's just that little of what you say reassures anything I've mentioned, and I hope for the sake of legitimacy of future public debates, a liberty degree never becomes something widespread.

That you vaguely go after everyone who holds a different view than you for supposedly not "researching" about liberty degrees is a bit of a farce. You're not so much "filleting" opinions, but rather misrepresenting them because of some odd oversensitivity towards this degree. That's more of what I was critical of you for.

Regarding the point you assert as valid: The reality of the situation (as I brought up in my previous post) is that academic fields get corrupted by misguided degree-holders independent of how many honest degree-holders there are. Just as there are many individuals who hold economics degrees that would elaborate against the Obama administration's plans, those people are cast aside and ignored for the sake of cherrypicking anyone who agrees as evidence. The honesty of some degree holders has no bearing on the dishonesty of others. So while your point indeed is valid, the assertion that so long as "pro-liberty" people (which again, is a vague description based on what I assume to be a foolhardy belief that those concerned with liberty homogeneously come to the same conclusions) participate in this degree, that this imagined integrity you believe it to have will be untarnished is pure fantasy.

Anti Federalist
07-28-2010, 11:15 PM
Has it occurred to anyone here that some people actually go to college because they want to learn things, not to get a job?

Glad somebody said it.

+1

james1906
07-28-2010, 11:28 PM
If you want to learn, buy an encyclopaedia and a chemistry set. It'll save you time and money.

specsaregood
07-28-2010, 11:51 PM
..

LibertyStudies
07-29-2010, 02:30 AM
If you want to learn, buy an encyclopaedia and a chemistry set. It'll save you time and money.

And that reclusive strategy would keep people out of the fight for liberty in academia. Now THAT is worthless.

LibertyStudies
07-29-2010, 02:53 AM
Such irrelevancies. Whether it's student-designed doesn't do all that much about the things that concern me about degrees like this. The economics degree at my school was set up in a very similar way, with X number of credits chosen from a list of topics chosen by the student, with projects designed by the student. The trouble you run into is when the list of classes are all from the same Keynesian model, and all the advisers for your projects are Keynesians themselves. I'm sure you can see how even with the guise of freedom, you're really more free educating yourself. It's not that I think you've made a bad career choice. I'm very happy for you that you take such pride in your degree. It's just that little of what you say reassures anything I've mentioned, and I hope for the sake of legitimacy of future public debates, a liberty degree never becomes something widespread.

That you vaguely go after everyone who holds a different view than you for supposedly not "researching" about liberty degrees is a bit of a farce. You're not so much "filleting" opinions, but rather misrepresenting them because of some odd oversensitivity towards this degree. That's more of what I was critical of you for.

Regarding the point you assert as valid: The reality of the situation (as I brought up in my previous post) is that academic fields get corrupted by misguided degree-holders independent of how many honest degree-holders there are. Just as there are many individuals who hold economics degrees that would elaborate against the Obama administration's plans, those people are cast aside and ignored for the sake of cherrypicking anyone who agrees as evidence. The honesty of some degree holders has no bearing on the dishonesty of others. So while your point indeed is valid, the assertion that so long as "pro-liberty" people (which again, is a vague description based on what I assume to be a foolhardy belief that those concerned with liberty homogeneously come to the same conclusions) participate in this degree, that this imagined integrity you believe it to have will be untarnished is pure fantasy.

Do you read anything I type? LOL. Again, you need to take a step back and actually research this topic.

On your first paragraph, I don't think reminiscing helps. This is not your economics program. Student-designed, student-titled graduate programs are extremely rare. There are only 11 master's programs like this, and only 4 Ph.D. programs like this. I would know, because I spent hundreds of hours finding and researching these programs, and nobody else has taken the time to do so. You can't find even find the list I have anywhere in print or online yet. These extremely rare programs are gems of academic liberty, and this one has the 2nd-highest level of academic liberty of all the programs. This is something to be celebrated! And yet you're trying to "debate" me about something that is not really up for debate. This is not your economics program. Period.

On your second paragraph, I am responding to those I do not agree with, and allowing the free market of ideas to do its work. :cool: While I appreciate the suggestion, I didn't really fillet all other opinions - only yours, because you constructed a very scary scenario in which we were asked to "imagine the damage" this liberty studies program can do. But then Ron Paul called me and up and said, "Daniel, that is ridiculous. You must fillet that opinion! It is just as important to learn for liberty as it is to campaign for liberty!" And I said, "Yes, Doctor, Senator, buddy, I will take care of it." So as you can understand, with Ron Paul on my side and all, not to mention all the Obama oil in its gills, I really had to fry that fish -- for liberty and for health.

On your last paragraph, thank you (?) for admitting that my point is valid... but should I really thank someone who immediately thereafter constructs a "straw man" fallacy by wrongly (and openly, in fact) assuming that by pro-liberty I am referring to a homogeneous collective. You really know how to insult an individualist in language that only individualists can understand as insulting. Thanks, indeed...

May I humbly recommend that you use your energies to debate against programs like this instead:

http://marxiststudies.org/

You can sit back and whimsically criticize all you want at your own leisure, but if you don't change your point of view, it is your loss. I can't go on debating people who don't see the big picture, the vision, the fight. Liberty is undervalued, understudied, underdeveloped, and under attack. It is therefore an honor to be involved in the academic movement for liberty, and it is a cause I am convinced is worthy of much of my life's work.

But back to my bitterly "valid" (your words) point... far from taking a step back, I think we need to take a step forward and start another opportunity like this. Get ready to criticize some more, because if I have my way, the individualized master's degree program at GMU will start a Humane Studies program, and HumaneStudies.Org will launch it. Get over it in advance, please, so I don't have to waste my time defending it against your monotonous criticism in another forum.

http://mais.gmu.edu/

While I cannot honestly say I "respect" your uninformed opinion, I do respect that you may advance liberty in our lifetime in an alternative way. Cordially, I appreciate your tenacity, which - despite your initial post which frankly we both know was mostly a creative writing experiment - has proven that you are at least passionate and may be of some use to liberty.

LibertyStudies
07-29-2010, 03:02 AM
but did they mean it? How about those that actually go to college to drink, party and get laid? Not to learn things or get a job? I bet that group outnumbers the other 2 groups. :)

but hey, what do i know? I only have a college degree in scuba diving.

lol

LibertyStudies
07-29-2010, 03:10 AM
It is by this pro liberty scholar, leader, and employer.

lol

LibertyStudies
07-29-2010, 03:15 AM
http://www.facebook.com/LibertyStudies

Paleo
07-29-2010, 06:16 AM
Has it occurred to anyone here that some people actually go to college because they want to learn things, not to get a job?

Cool, and 'not to get a job' is exactly what they will achieve.

Live_Free_Or_Die
07-29-2010, 06:42 AM
lol

Are you suggesting the facts I have owned successful businesses, served in the Marine Corps in the first Gulf War, presented enough constitutional information on this forum to conduct my own academic course, and have personally exercised civil disobedience, all on a crappy public high school indoctrination, that I am not a qualified pro liberty scholar, leader, or employer? Is there some Liberty Cartel monopoly I am not aware of?

LibertyStudies
07-29-2010, 02:02 PM
Are you suggesting the facts I have owned successful businesses, served in the Marine Corps in the first Gulf War, presented enough constitutional information on this forum to conduct my own academic course, and have personally exercised civil disobedience, all on a crappy public high school indoctrination, that I am not a qualified pro liberty scholar, leader, or employer? Is there some Liberty Cartel monopoly I am not aware of?

lol

LibertyStudies
07-29-2010, 02:08 PM
Cool, and 'not to get a job' is exactly what they will achieve.

I already got a job, which - ironically to your criticism - I am actually receiving college credit for during the program. :cool:

LibertyStudies
07-29-2010, 02:09 PM
http://www.publiusfoundation.com/201...-universities/

LibertyStudies
07-29-2010, 02:10 PM
http://www.educationnews.org/higher_...ion/93291.html

LibertyStudies
07-29-2010, 02:10 PM
YOUNG AMERICANS FOR LIBERTY
http://www.yaliberty.org/posts/a-deg...berty-who-knew

LibertyStudies
07-29-2010, 02:11 PM
STUDENTS FOR LIBERTY
http://studentsforliberty.org/news/a...ee-in-liberty/

LibertyStudies
07-29-2010, 02:19 PM
Let us know when they develop matching Bachelor's and Associate's programs. Not all of us in the liberty community are college-educated.

BuddyRey, the Bachelor of Individualized Study (B.I.S.) program at George Mason University also allows you to design and title your own degree:

http://bis.gmu.edu/

Anti Federalist
07-29-2010, 02:21 PM
But did they mean it? How about those that actually go to college to drink, party and get laid? Not to learn things or get a job? I bet that group outnumbers the other 2 groups. :)

But hey, what do I know? I only have a college degree in scuba diving.

I wonder what you would call a doctorate of that degree?

Doctor of underwater respiration?

Awesome....:D

LibertyStudies
07-29-2010, 02:29 PM
I wonder what you would call a doctorate of that degree?

Doctor of underwater respiration?

Awesome....:D

lol

specsaregood
07-29-2010, 02:31 PM
I wonder what you would call a doctorate of that degree?
Doctor of underwater respiration?
Awesome....:D
:) FKCC, best community college in the U.S.

Paleo
07-29-2010, 02:31 PM
I already got a job, which - ironically to your criticism - I am actually receiving college credit for during the program. :cool:

Starbucks doesnt count.

LibertyStudies
07-29-2010, 02:34 PM
Starbucks doesnt count.

The Leadership Institute does. Especially if it covers the entire semester's tuition, and then some. :cool:

LibertyStudies
07-29-2010, 03:47 PM
http://twitter.com/liberty_studies

LibertyStudies
07-29-2010, 03:48 PM
Center for Liberty Studies
http://www.libertystudies.org/

LibertyStudies
07-29-2010, 03:48 PM
Future Website for Students
http://www.liberty-studies.org/

LibertyStudies
07-29-2010, 03:49 PM
http://www.uis.edu/lnt/curriculum/titles.html

Live_Free_Or_Die
07-29-2010, 04:21 PM
Be sure to keep us posted on your income theft avoidance strategies at your new job while learning about what it means to be free, acting upon those beliefs, and establishing credibility obtaining real world personal experience in freedom.

LibertyStudies
07-29-2010, 05:30 PM
Be sure to keep us posted on your income theft avoidance strategies at your new job while learning about what it means to be free, acting upon those beliefs, and establishing credibility obtaining real world personal experience in freedom.

lol

LibertyStudies
07-29-2010, 05:42 PM
The Liberty Studies initiative organized by a free-market think tank in Lithuania :) est. 2004!

http://www.lrinka.lt/n/index.php/menu/newsroom/press_releases/writing_contest_liberty_studies/5615