Last bastion of truly-free enterprise, farmers markets: GONE.

[idirtify]

I just found out that regulators swooped down on our local (in Indiana) farmers market in June. They handed every vendor a 10-page set of rules and regulations dictating things like sales taxes, tax numbers, USDA inspections, proof-of-production, labeling, gloves, certified kitchens, certified scales, and dozens more of the most infuriating compliance mandates you can imagine. Apparently they have not yet covered all towns. But do not despair; your town could be next – and you will no longer have to worry about those terribly dangerous unregulated farmers markets.

[dannno]

That really sucks. I've worked at a farmer's market before.

[Elwar]

finally!

[specsaregood]

I just found out that regulators swooped down on our local (in Indiana) farmers market in June. They handed every vendor a 10-page set of rules and regulations dictating things like sales taxes, tax numbers, USDA inspections, proof-of-production, labeling, gloves, certified kitchens, certified scales, and dozens more of the most infuriating compliance mandates you can imagine. Apparently they have not yet covered all towns. But do not despair; your town could be next – and you will no longer have to worry about those terribly dangerous unregulated farmers markets.

Just wondering, is there a whole foods in your town? Or similar upscale grocery stores?

If this starts happening in lots of towns, It might be worth crosschecking to see if any certain corporations have locations in the area that might be losing business to a farmers market.

[dannno]

Just wondering, is there a whole foods in your town? Or similar upscale grocery stores?

If this starts happening in lots of towns, It might be worth crosschecking to see if any certain corporations have locations in the area that might be losing business to a farmers market.

I live in a relatively small town.. there are already farmer's markets almost every day of the week.. we have a Whole Foods, three (THREE!!) Trader Joe's, and at least three more full size independent health food stores. I, and most people who eat healthfully, visit all of these establishments.

The more that this type of stuff is available, the more demand there is for the product.. The more convenient it becomes for people, the more likely they will start purchasing higher quality food. I don't think there are any healthful stores going after farmer's markets, in all likelihood it is the mainstream grocery stores losing business permanently who are doing this... (and btw, I don't call them "upscale" just because the food they buy isn't subsidized by our damn govt. :rolleyes: did you know that is why their food costs more??)

[malkusm]

Suggestion: Write an angry op-ed letter to your local paper. You seem to have a lot of good talking points about the ridiculous web of regulations, the absurdity of the "danger" posed by farmers' markets, etc.

I ask this because it makes it a lot easier to spread to people and get them fired up if you have something that is perceived as an actual news link, rather than linking them to some angry person's anecdote on a message board.

[specsaregood]

The more that this type of stuff is available, the more demand there is for the product.. I don't think there are any healthful stores going after farmer's markets, in all likelihood it is the mainstream grocery stores losing business who are doing this...

I wouldn't be so sure about that. I think the farmers market shopper demographic shares more with whole foods than a traditional grocery store chain.
But I have no stats to back this up, just experience shopping at both, working at farmers markets as a kid and people I know that are patrons of both. A lot of people I know go to the farmers markets instead of whole foods for produce during the harvesting times.



(and btw, I don't call them "upscale" just because the food they buy isn't subsidized by our damn govt. :rolleyes: did you know that is why their food costs more??)
I call them upscale because their food costs more and as a result they tend to have a customer base with more disposable income or more "upscale". They also do sell lots of boutique items you can't find elsewhere. I didn't mean it in a derogatory way.

[dannno]

I wouldn't be so sure about that. I think the farmers market shopper demographic shares more with whole foods than a traditional grocery store chain.
But I have no stats to back this up, just experience shopping at both, working at farmers markets as a kid and people I know that are patrons of both. A lot of people I know go to the farmers markets instead of whole foods for produce during the harvesting times.


Well my experience is that when I go to any of the other health food stores or Trader Joes, they are always really really busy.. The more these places expand, the more busy they all become.. They had a new Farmer's Market day start pretty much in the same month as our Whole Foods opened.. Whole Foods is super busy, the Trader Joe's down the street and all the others are always just as busy as before.. it just seems like a lot of people go to Ralphs or Vons because it is close, but if they have the choice to get better food for about the same price they do it. Also, I'm not convinced that grocery stores have a higher value, many times I find a lot of their stuff is actually really expensive..

[specsaregood]

Well my experience is that when I go to any of the other health food stores or Trader Joes, they are always really really busy.. The more these places expand, the more busy they all become.. They had a new Farmer's Market day start pretty much in the same month as our Whole Foods opened.. Whole Foods is super busy, the Trader Joe's down the street and all the others are always just as busy as before.. it just seems like a lot of people go to Ralphs or Vons because it is close, but if they have the choice to get better food for about the same price they do it. Also, I'm not convinced that grocery stores have a higher value, many times I find a lot of their stuff is actually really expensive..

My impression though is that the people that are willing to spend a bit more to get good food are the same people that will go out of there way/make a seperate trip to a farmers market for the same reason. Whereas you said, the traditional super market customers just want to get their food conveniently and as inexpensively as possible. Because quite often you still have to go to a walmart or traditional supermarket for the non-food items everybody needs: TP, Papertowels, foil, ziplock, etc. You buy that stuff at whole foods and you are gonna go broke real quick.

Also, I'd say using San Diego as your basis of experience isn't quite an accurate depiction of the country as a whole. There are whole lot more organic-heads, granola eating, foodie people in SD than there are elsewhere.

[dannno]

My impression though is that the people that are willing to spend a bit more to get good food are the same people that will go out of there way/make a seperate trip to a farmers market for the same reason. Whereas you said, the traditional super market customers just want to get their food conveniently and as inexpensively as possible. Because quite often you still have to go to a walmart or traditional supermarket for the non-food items everybody needs: TP, Papertowels, foil, ziplock, etc. You buy that stuff at whole foods and you are gonna go broke real quick.

Also, I'd say using San Diego as your basis of experience isn't quite an accurate depiction of the country as a whole. There are whole lot more organic-heads, granola eating, foodie people in SD than there are elsewhere.

I'm not in san diego, I'm in a very small town up north which is not able to grow in population due to geography, so it is a great control to show how expanding health food availability expands the demand for said health food.

As more of these stores open, people around here who shop at grocery stores become more aware that many of their peers shop at these 'better' stores. So what is so much better about them, they might wonder? Well, they figure it out pretty quick. The value is better. The environment is nicer. Suddenly THEY TOO are shopping at farmer's markets and trader joe's, cause it's not as much out of their way anymore and they tried it and they like it.

I agree non-food items have a way to go in that area...

[specsaregood]

I'm not in san diego, I'm in a very small town up north which is not able to grow in population due to geography, so it is a great control to show how expanding health food availability expands the demand for said health food.

Ah, my mistake.



The value is better. The environment is nicer.

In otherwords, "up-scale"? :)



I agree non-food items have a way to go in that area...
It is really my biggest complaint about whole foods and the only reason I ever go to other supermarkets. I mean, would it really kill their image to stock some affordable/nonrecyled TP?

[ronpaulhawaii]

Tennessee
http://www.johnsoncitypress.com/News/article.php?ID=78614


State cracks down on canned, baked goods at Johnson City Farmers Market

By Rex Barber
Press Staff Writer
rbarber@johnsoncitypress.com
Soon, if you buy bread, jams, butter, doughnuts, barbecue or other prepared foods at the Johnson City Downtown Farmers Market, you’ll know the treats have been certified by the state.

“I think it’s a good idea for the public and the people here also,” market lot manager Larry Benfield said of the Tennessee Department of Agriculture’s recent notice that it would enforce regulations on the sale of certain food items.

The regulations requiring vendors who sell baked and canned goods and meats to have a licensed domestic or commercial kitchen to do business at the market will take effect after July 31.

A domestic kitchen is located inside a vendor’s home. A commercial kitchen is a structure separate from the vendor’s home. Both must meet certain requirements. Should a vendor with a domestic kitchen wish to sell canned foods, he or she must take a class instructing them on how to properly can food.

Food prepared on site must be fixed in a concession trailer rather than in the open-air.

Most vendors at the market, located in the parking lot at the corner of State of Franklin Road and South Roan Street on Wednesdays and Saturdays, sell canned foods in addition to produce of all kinds. Some vendors only sell baked goods and other foods, though.

Lori Love has been setting out her freshly-baked breads to sell to customers at the market for the past three years. Those breads are her main product, but she doesn’t really mind the regulations and all the nuances that go along with them.

“I think the farmers market, or at least this one, is going toward complying more with state regulations and trying to get the food up to health standards,” Love said. “I agree with it in some aspects and in other aspects I don’t.”

One of those aspects Love does not agree with concerns offering food samples. Beginning Aug. 1, vendors can no longer provide samples to customers unless those samples were prepared in a domestic or commercial kitchen and packaged there, too.

“So, no samples,” Love said, adding that she could provide samples because she has a commercial kitchen but the cost in money and time is too great.

Most area farmers markets have a governing board that determines who sells and sets rules for vendors. A copy of the rules of the Jonesborough Farmers Market obtained online stated that, “Homemade baked goods, honey, jams, jellies and canned foods are acceptable granted they meet all state health requirements and are locally produced by the vendor selling the item. Compliance with all Health Department and Department of Agriculture guidelines and restrictions is the sole responsibility of the vendor.”

When Johnson City’s market comes into full compliance with state regulations, at least one vendor will cease selling canned goods.

“I won’t sell canned stuff anymore and I won’t sell sugar-cured meats,” said Bonnie Verble. “I did, won’t do it anymore.”

Verble has been offering cucumbers, summer squash, tomatoes, egg plant, various beans and cabbages, berries and potted plants at the market for years. Her canned goods were on display Wednesday.

She said it was too much hassle to offer canned goods by establishing a domestic kitchen. She already has a $200-a-year greenhouse license to sell the potted plants.

“They come to your house, they inspect your kitchen,” Verble said. “You have to go and go to schooling for canning, even if you know how to do it... .”

Helen Greenwell also has a booth at the market where she was selling nice dark blackberries, juicy red sandwich tomatoes, bushels of crisp cucumbers, jars of vibrant green bread and butter pickles and colorful jams. She was not sure if she would seek a domestic kitchen license to continue with the canned goods.

Josette Fee bought a jar of honey from Greenwell Wednesday. She said she a kitchen certification from the state was of no importance to her.

“I think I’d rather see regulations on where they’re getting produce from,” Fee said, adding she would like to know she is supporting local growers rather than a farmer in South Carolina.

If Greenwell or other vendors want to continue selling canned foods they may not have to wait long as the proprietors of Granny Grunt’s BBQ and Fixin’s, 133 Springbrook Drive, are considering opening a commercial kitchen for people to rent time in which to prepare breads and canned food.

Mark Falls, owner of the barbecue business, has been smoking ribs, brisket, pork and offering jars of homemade barbecue sauce at the market for a few years. His large cooker was giving off the smoky smell of his product Wednesday morning. Falls said he was already in compliance with state regulations and the new rules for the market will not be a strain on him.

The regulations will require some slight adjustment for Nate Peachey, who was running his sister Rachel’s booth Wednesday. The booth offered jams and all kinds of breads, cakes, cookies and other tasty-looking baked treats.

Next to the booth Peachey was operating was the familiar doughnuts made by the local Mennonite community and offered each day the market is open. A large line had formed for the giant deep-fried rings covered in sugary glaze cooling in the open air.

Peachey said the doughnuts will be served in a concession trailer after this month to comply with the state regulations and he himself would cease offering samples of the goods he oversees.

“Of course I think we need regulations,” Peachey said. “Some of the laws in every application don’t seem like a good thing but ultimately they are. They are all designed to protect the public.”

Benfield, the market lot manager, said the regulations most likely came about because of the growth of the market. The number of vendors increased by 20 percent from last year.

“You know the way that the market’s growing there’s a lot of people getting into it and they just don’t want nobody to get sick is the idea of it.”

[Noob]

I get my vitamins and other stuff at GNC.

[dannno]

In otherwords, "up-scale"? :)

Better value doesn't necessarily mean upscale. I tend to view upscale as having things which are unnecessary.. but what I see as unnecessary is the farming industrial complex' grip on our entire food system and how they have brought it away from natural methods to spraying a bunch of chemicals everywhere, taking govt. subsidies and screwing us over. Shopping at health food stores is the best way to starve the beast in this sense.




It is really my biggest complaint about whole foods and the only reason I ever go to other supermarkets. I mean, would it really kill their image to stock some affordable/nonrecyled TP?

I don't mind the recycled part, just try and make it more like cottonelle and less like sandpaper... I wouldn't mind paying a little more for that..

But honestly I buy waaaayyy more food than toilet paper and aluminum foil so it doesn't bother me that much.

[dannno]

I get my vitamins and other stuff at GNC.

Ok.. so you just eat pills all day :confused:

Eating healthy is half about getting good nutrition and half about not eating most of the crap they sell at big name grocery stores.

[haaaylee]

This is happening here as well. My friend had a tent at the Farmer's Market selling crepes. But they showed up, changed all the rules, and now you can't cook on site - it has to come from another kitchen. And that kitchen has to be inspected. Etc. Completely shut her stand down. And i was going to work for her! Ha. Killed two jobs.

[malkusm]

“Of course I think we need regulations,” Peachey said. “Some of the laws in every application don’t seem like a good thing but ultimately they are. They are all designed to protect the public.”

Yup, everything's all Peachey, right Peachey? Don't you worry about ever questioning your government - they're always just trying to look out for us all. :rolleyes:

[specsaregood]

But honestly I buy waaaayyy more food than toilet paper and aluminum foil so it doesn't bother me that much.

Right, well both I and the little woman works from home. So we eat 90% of our meals here and use our commode exclusively. So we go through lots of the staples one needs to cook/live. more so than people that are out of the house a lot.

Back to what I said, if this is happening or begins happening in more locations I would think it worth crosschecking those locations with large supermarket chains. See if somebody is using the govt to help ensure them customers.

[agorist ninja]

Yup, everything's all Peachey, right Peachey? Don't you worry about ever questioning your government - they're always just trying to look out for us all. :rolleyes:

Farmer's markets are, indeed, awesome. The only downside is the sheer amount of first or second generation progressive hippie tards who think the government had morphed into some benevolent agent of peace after the 60's ended.

[Anti Federalist]

“Of course I think we need regulations,” Peachey said. “Some of the laws in every application don’t seem like a good thing but ultimately they are. They are all designed to protect the public.”

Benfield, the market lot manager, said the regulations most likely came about because of the growth of the market. The number of vendors increased by 20 percent from last year.

“You know the way that the market’s growing there’s a lot of people getting into it and they just don’t want nobody to get sick is the idea of it.”

I don't know about the food, but those peachey comments made me sick.

[fedup100]

If you think they aren't gonna control your food, just ask the Russians. These marisxt SOB's will starve you into submission and so it begins.

[payme_rick]

“Some of the laws in every application don’t seem like a good thing but ultimately they are. They are all designed to protect the public.”

Wow, kinda reminds me of those movies...

"Oh I know he's had some trouble, but his momma kicked him out and he needed a place to stay. He don't mean no harm, he's a good kid."

three weeks later your daughter's knocked up and you and your wife are dead inside of your truck at the bottom of the river...

[Arion45]

Get together with other farmer market participates and have a regulation burning and then ignore the bureaucrats dictates. Conduct yourselves as free individuals and let the government expose it's violence.

[dannno]

Wow, kinda reminds me of those movies...

"Oh I know he's had some trouble, but his momma kicked him out and he needed a place to stay. He don't mean no harm, he's a good kid."

three weeks later your daughter's knocked up and you and your wife are dead inside of your truck at the bottom of the river...

Do they stream that one on netflix :confused:

[Anti Federalist]

If you think they aren't gonna control your food, just ask the Russians. These marisxt SOB's will starve you into submission and so it begins.

That's correct.

And a tiny minority of us will mumble and whisper about it, until even that is no longer permitted (seditious thoughts and words you know), but that's about it.

[payme_rick]

Do they stream that one on netflix :confused:

Ha, can't remember a movie where the little boyfriend down the road moves in, knocks up the daughter then kills the parents, but you get my drift...

[Noob]

Ok.. so you just eat pills all day :confused:

Eating healthy is half about getting good nutrition and half about not eating most of the crap they sell at big name grocery stores.

They do sell a lot of good stuff, I thinking about trying out thier new Pink Magic they came out with. Of course I do get food, mostley water melons and corn from the farmers market that is here.

[phill4paul]

That's correct.

And a tiny minority of us will mumble and whisper about it, until even that is no longer permitted (seditious thoughts and words you know), but that's about it.

Whisper and mumble? Hell, no!
I go all out and write strongly worded e-mails. I use words that are bolded and italisized. To emphasis my points sometimes I will underline them. I change the font size. This really lets them know I mean business!
Often times, when I am particularly angry I color my words in red. To end my protest I will attach an angry emoticon,:mad:, which I am sure strikes fear into the hearts of the oppressors.
I am quite sure with my diligent typings that the nation will be set back on the course of individual liberty for all Americans very soon.

[Vessol]

Get together with other farmer market participates and have a regulation burning and then ignore the bureaucrats dictates. Conduct yourselves as free individuals and let the government expose it's violence.

This this this.

Civil disobedience.

[heavenlyboy34]

Whisper and mumble? Hell, no!
I go all out and write strongly worded e-mails. I use words that are bolded and italisized. To emphasis my points sometimes I will underline them. I change the font size. This really lets them know I mean business!
Often times, when I am particularly angry I color my words in red. To end my protest I will attach an angry emoticon,:mad:, which I am sure strikes fear into the hearts of the oppressors.
I am quite sure with my diligent typings that the nation will be set back on the course of individual liberty for all Americans very soon.

lolz...you remind me of Richard Daughty (the Mogambo Guru) :D:cool:

[KCIndy]

I just found out that regulators swooped down on our local (in Indiana) farmers market in June. They handed every vendor a 10-page set of rules and regulations dictating things like sales taxes, tax numbers, USDA inspections, proof-of-production, labeling, gloves, certified kitchens, certified scales, and dozens more of the most infuriating compliance mandates you can imagine. Apparently they have not yet covered all towns. But do not despair; your town could be next – and you will no longer have to worry about those terribly dangerous unregulated farmers markets.

D:mad:A:mad:M:mad:N!!!!

No wonder I'm having a hard time finding fresh produce this summer!!! Stupid overbearing red-tape loving control freak Marxist ***holes!!! AArrrgghhhhgghhhh!!!!


<<calms down slightly>>

You mind listing the town where this happened, or the nearest big town to it? The closest "large" town to me is Muncie. I would love to get as much info about this as I can. I think my state rep is holding an open house this weekend.... I want to find out if this is a state law or some local city/county council run amok. If enough people raise hell with their local politicians, I'm betting we can get this changed.

[Anti Federalist]

Whisper and mumble? Hell, no!
I go all out and write strongly worded e-mails. I use words that are bolded and italisized. To emphasis my points sometimes I will underline them. I change the font size. This really lets them know I mean business!
Often times, when I am particularly angry I color my words in red. To end my protest I will attach an angry emoticon,:mad:, which I am sure strikes fear into the hearts of the oppressors.
I am quite sure with my diligent typings that the nation will be set back on the course of individual liberty for all Americans very soon.

LolZ, I'll have to try some of those tricks.

We'll have the 'crats shaking in their boots.

[Live_Free_Or_Die]

finally!

+1 :D

Whether people realize it or not their masters are on the verge of a commercial real estate crisis and commerce conducted outside of commercial real estate will not be tolerated.

[idirtify]

Suggestion: Write an angry op-ed letter to your local paper. You seem to have a lot of good talking points about the ridiculous web of regulations, the absurdity of the "danger" posed by farmers' markets, etc.

I ask this because it makes it a lot easier to spread to people and get them fired up if you have something that is perceived as an actual news link, rather than linking them to some angry person's anecdote on a message board.

O God, that’s another story about when our paper started a discussion forum and my disagreements made me enemy number one within a short time (and someone ratted out my real name to the main paper-employee/mod). And that was after I had already gotten into a spat with the editor after my repeated complaints against their online version (which I paid for) for routinely posting “news” DAYS AFTER the “paper paper”. Suffice it to say that ANY such opinion letter against our local establishment would not get published, let alone one from ME.

[Deborah K]

I just found out that regulators swooped down on our local (in Indiana) farmers market in June. They handed every vendor a 10-page set of rules and regulations dictating things like sales taxes, tax numbers, USDA inspections, proof-of-production, labeling, gloves, certified kitchens, certified scales, and dozens more of the most infuriating compliance mandates you can imagine. Apparently they have not yet covered all towns. But do not despair; your town could be next – and you will no longer have to worry about those terribly dangerous unregulated farmers markets.

Can I get a link to that? We have a thriving, fantastic farmer's market in our town. I'd like to discuss what happened in your town at the next Tea Party meeting, but I need the ordinance. Can you get it?

[idirtify]

D:mad:A:mad:M:mad:N!!!!

No wonder I'm having a hard time finding fresh produce this summer!!! Stupid overbearing red-tape loving control freak Marxist ***holes!!! AArrrgghhhhgghhhh!!!!


<<calms down slightly>>

You mind listing the town where this happened, or the nearest big town to it? The closest "large" town to me is Muncie. I would love to get as much info about this as I can. I think my state rep is holding an open house this weekend.... I want to find out if this is a state law or some local city/county council run amok. If enough people raise hell with their local politicians, I'm betting we can get this changed.

PMed you.

[idirtify]

Can I get a link to that? We have a thriving, fantastic farmer's market in our town. I'd like to discuss what happened in your town at the next Tea Party meeting, but I need the ordinance. Can you get it?

I’m sure I can get a hard/paper copy of the new regs from the friend (farm market vendor) that showed it to me. Maybe on it there will be a website/source. I’ll look into it and keep you posted.

[idirtify]

Just wondering, is there a whole foods in your town? Or similar upscale grocery stores?

If this starts happening in lots of towns, It might be worth crosschecking to see if any certain corporations have locations in the area that might be losing business to a farmers market.

I suppose I could, but I would rather blame the real culprit: government.

[TruckinMike]

Get together with other farmer market participates and have a regulation burning and then ignore the bureaucrats dictates. Conduct yourselves as free individuals and let the government expose it's violence.


FInally, someone with a bit of common sense!! Right On!!

TMIke

[libertybrewcity]

What are the consequences of not applying with USDA regulations?

Do they just shut you down if they happen to come to the city or town you are in, and then you can go about selling the next time?

Or are we talking about jail time, fines, whatever?

[Deborah K]

I suppose I could, but I would rather blame the real culprit: government.

Thank you! We need to head this off at the pass.

[Live_Free_Or_Die]

FInally, someone with a bit of common sense!! Right On!!

TMIke

I don't know what you are referring to TMike. Better solutions than that have been ponied up but proposing them up is a waste of human activity.

[malkusm]

Oh, while we're bashing the USDA -

I live in NYC. Every day on my way to the subway station, I pass a public school. Yesterday, when I passed the school, I noticed a new sign at the entrance that read: "Free Lunches for Summer Schoolers!" It then proceeded to explain that summer schoolers received FREE breakfasts and lunches throughout the entire session.

At the bottom of the sign read "Paid for by the United States Department of Agriculture."

So, let's recap what the USDA does these days:
(1) Subsidizes Cargill and other huge farms at the expense of the small farmer and at the expense of the poor who would benefit from lower crop prices.
(2) Shuts down local farmers' markets, forcing everyone to buy the products of the aforementioned subsidized farms.
(3) Claims to be HELPING the poor, after hurting them in a much more substantial way, by giving free meals to inner city kids who have never seen a farm in their lives.

[idirtify]

What are the consequences of not applying with USDA regulations?

Do they just shut you down if they happen to come to the city or town you are in, and then you can go about selling the next time?

Or are we talking about jail time, fines, whatever?

(I think you mean “COMPLYING with USDA regulations”.)

I don’t know for sure, but I imagine we are talking about real fines and real jail; since the regs are real laws (well, as “real” as any bad law can be).

[ctiger2]

I just picked up some raspberries, sweet corn and tomatoes at the local farmers mkt today. Best I've ever had. The stuff from the grocery store tastes like wood.

[idirtify]

What irks me is this:

Here we are in the depths of a recession, and most of these people (vendors) are struggling to stay afloat. And here our government is supposed to be doing everything it can to stimulate the economy and save/create jobs. So THIS is how they do it???? By shutting down the smallest mom-and-pop operation possible???? By making it more difficult to sell your own garden vegetables????

If anything, this is symptomatic of the exact opposite intent; to destroy the economy and stifle prosperity. John Stossel proved long ago (or was it Milton Freidman?) that the biggest factor in the degree of prosperity of a country’s economy was the amount of red tape and regulations; the amount of the latter being perfectly inversely-proportionate to the amount of the former (the more regulations, the less prosperity).

This is only “small potatoes”, but it infuriates me more than a lot of the bigger stuff. I’m not sure why.

[idirtify]

I just picked up some raspberries, sweet corn and tomatoes at the local farmers mkt today. Best I've ever had. The stuff from the grocery store tastes like wood.
----------------
Once public confidence is destroyed, respect for the government indeed collapses, hoarding of wealth takes place, refusal to accept the currency on faith, and eventually the government will be backed into a corner so desperate for cash, it will turn against it's own people, render them criminals to justify the confiscation, but even this will not sustain the system. ~ Martin Armstrong


How perfectly timely and relevant your signature is!

[james1906]

Need to use this among some liberal family and friends who don't understand that government regulation is a bastion of corporatism.

[idirtify]

Oh, while we're bashing the USDA -

I live in NYC. Every day on my way to the subway station, I pass a public school. Yesterday, when I passed the school, I noticed a new sign at the entrance that read: "Free Lunches for Summer Schoolers!" It then proceeded to explain that summer schoolers received FREE breakfasts and lunches throughout the entire session.

At the bottom of the sign read "Paid for by the United States Department of Agriculture."

So, let's recap what the USDA does these days:
(1) Subsidizes Cargill and other huge farms at the expense of the small farmer and at the expense of the poor who would benefit from lower crop prices.
(2) Shuts down local farmers' markets, forcing everyone to buy the products of the aforementioned subsidized farms.
(3) Claims to be HELPING the poor, after hurting them in a much more substantial way, by giving free meals to inner city kids who have never seen a farm in their lives.

wow. good observation.

[MelissaCato]

It might be worth crosschecking to see if any certain corporations have locations in the area that might be losing business to a farmers market.

.. they're gonna lose all their business to local farmers markets late in the season .... SUPPORT your LOCAL FARMERS MARKETS TODAY !!!!

:D

Ron Paul 2012 !!!!

[libertybrewcity]

(I think you mean “COMPLYING with USDA regulations”.)

I don’t know for sure, but I imagine we are talking about real fines and real jail; since the regs are real laws (well, as “real” as any bad law can be).

yes, i meant complying...stupid me...

im just wondering if the feds would actually arrest a market full of farmers.,?

[KCIndy]

yes, i meant complying...stupid me...

im just wondering if the feds would actually arrest a market full of farmers.,?


These days?? It wouldn't surprise me. And I would expect the farmers to be whacked with great big fines, just to add insult to injury.

[TruckinMike]

.... but proposing them up is a waste of human activity.

Yes. But you don't agree with...

"...have a regulation burning and then ignore the bureaucrats dictates"?

TMike

Maybe I'm missing something...

[acptulsa]

yes, i meant complying...stupid me...

im just wondering if the feds would actually arrest a market full of farmers.,?

Why do you think Homeland Security has invented, for the first time ever, the marked federal police car? So they can do things the local cops wouldn't dare do.

I remember liberals laughing at me over at Slate.com when I said it would come to this. Keep telling them we told them so, kids. Don't let up on them. You don't wake up a stubborn sleeper by showing mercy.

[speciallyblend]

you need to lobby the local sheriffs to keep the feds out of the county. this seems the best fight!! lobby your county/town seats and sheriffs!! mainly sheriffs!!

[Deborah K]

Any luck getting that ordinance?

[osan]

I just found out that regulators swooped down on our local (in Indiana) farmers market in June. They handed every vendor a 10-page set of rules and regulations dictating things like sales taxes, tax numbers, USDA inspections, proof-of-production, labeling, gloves, certified kitchens, certified scales, and dozens more of the most infuriating compliance mandates you can imagine. Apparently they have not yet covered all towns. But do not despair; your town could be next – and you will no longer have to worry about those terribly dangerous unregulated farmers markets.

State or federal mandates? Just curious.

[XNavyNuke]

LA Times: Raw-food raid highlights a hunger (http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-raw-food-raid-20100725,0,4951907.story)


With no warning one weekday morning, investigators entered an organic grocery with a search warrant and ordered the hemp-clad workers to put down their buckets of mashed coconut cream and to step away from the nuts.

Then, guns drawn, four officers fanned out across Rawesome Foods in Venice. Skirting past the arugula and peering under crates of zucchini, they found the raid's target inside a walk-in refrigerator: unmarked jugs of raw milk.

"I still can't believe they took our yogurt," said Rawesome volunteer Sea J. Jones, a few days after the raid. "There's a medical marijuana shop a couple miles away, and they're raiding us because we're selling raw dairy products?"

Ah yes! The old South American yogurt cartel dealing out of some upscale yuppie shop. Happens everyday.:rolleyes:

XNN

[KCIndy]

Anyone have any luck tracking down that ordinance?

I've been doing some checking, but so far, the only thing I've discovered is that Indiana apparently loosened some food regulations last year. Namely, sellers at roadside and outdoor markets are now allowed to sell some home baked and home made items. Previously, such items were required to be made in government approved kitchens subject to health licensing.

As we can all imagine, this has not set well with the pro nanny-state forces.

Here's an "OhMyGodTheSkyIsFalling!" article/op-ed piece from the South Bend newspaper bemoaning similar loosening of the law in neighboring Michigan:

http://www.southbendtribune.com/article/20100723/Opinion/7230358/-1/googleNews

I wonder if the passing out of regulations at the event described in the first post is some sort of local overreaction to the changing state level laws...

The South Bend editorial:


Homemade food belongs at home
OUR OPINION

Michigan this month followed Indiana in relaxing regulation of cottage food operations. New laws in Michigan, similar to a measure passed by the Indiana General Assembly in 2009, permit residents to make and package certain foods in home kitchens and without a state license.

The aim is to support small-time vendors and budding entrepreneurs while minimizing the risk to public health.

Both states carefully spell out what foods can be sold and where. For example, the new Michigan law specifies homemade baked goods, jams, jellies, candy, vinegar and dried fruit, herbs and mixes can be sold at farmers markets, roadside stands, county fairs, festivals and flea markets.

Potentially hazardous foods, like ones that require temperature control to keep toxic organisms from growing, are excluded in both states.

Vendors in both states, too, must label home-produced foods as such, disclosing that the production area wasn't inspected for the state.

Well-intentioned though it may be, the change in direction isn't healthy.

Previously, anyone selling food for public consumption was required to work out of an approved kitchen, separate from their home, that could be inspected for compliance with food safety standards. While no amount of regulation will protect against every hazard, inspecting and licensing kitchens that serve the public is an important safeguard against food-borne illness.

Surely, most vendors will strive to be safe and clean in their preparation of foods in their homes. But without periodic scrutiny and inspection, they may not be aware the water temperature of their dishwasher is too low to kill germs or may overlook the risk of contamination from children in the kitchen.

Opening the door to some home-prepared food sales, too, is bound to confuse both consumers and producers about what's allowed and what isn't. Buyers must be informed and beware.

The previous laws weren't all that restrictive. Many cooks complied by using an approved kitchen at their church or farmers' market. A state license cost them $100 or less.

Undoubtedly, most consumers will be safe under the new laws on home-based food production.

But when the sanitation of what we eat, our good health and, in the most rare and extreme cases of food-borne illness, life itself are at stake, stepping away from regulation is going backward.

[libertybrewcity]

LA Times: Raw-food raid highlights a hunger (http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-raw-food-raid-20100725,0,4951907.story)



Ah yes! The old South American yogurt cartel dealing out of some upscale yuppie shop. Happens everyday.:rolleyes:

XNN

Sad!