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FrankRep
07-17-2010, 11:53 PM
Legal Mexican Immigrants Standing Up Against Illegal Immigration, Amnesty


YouTube - • Crash Politics • Legal Hispanic American Stand Against Illegal Immigration! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mIY6XUFVBsk&feature=player_embedded)




Some Hispanic Americans hope law deters illegal immigration (http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/04/30/arizona.hispanics.immigration/?hpt=C1)


CNN
April 30, 2010


Phoenix, Arizona (CNN) -- Sue Schwartz says she's been called a racist so many times she doesn't mind the label anymore. If wanting immigrants to enter the country legally, like her great-grandparents from Mexico, and obey the laws of the land makes her racist, then so be it, she says firmly.

"I'm getting to the point I wear it with pride," says Schwartz, a lifelong Arizonan who has warily watched the growth of the illegal immigrant population in the state over the course of her life.

About 500,000 unauthorized immigrants were believed to live in Arizona in 2008, and 11.9 million nationwide, up from 3.5 million nationwide in 1990, according to a Pew Hispanic Center report published in 2009.

This year, the tide is finally turning in her favor, she says, with the passage of SB 1070, aimed at cracking down on illegal immigration.

The new law requires immigrants to carry their alien registration documents at all times and requires police to question people if there is reason to suspect they're in the United States illegally.

Read the full text of Senate Bill 1070 (PDF) (http://www.azleg.gov/legtext/49leg/2r/bills/sb1070s.pdf)

"I hope it makes a lot of them leave on their own, self-deportation. Hopefully that'll open up more jobs. There's a lot of people here who will do menial jobs -- maybe not pick lettuce, but these people aren't just picking lettuce any more," says Schwartz.

The new law also targets those who hire illegal immigrant day laborers or knowingly transport them.

What will Arizona immigration law do? (http://www.cnn.com/2010/POLITICS/04/23/immigration.faq/index.html)

Schwartz, a retired USPS worker, says undocumented workers are taking jobs from citizens like her teenage granddaughter, who hasn't been able to find a job since she began looking after she turned 15.

"She can't even work at the Hometown Buffet if she doesn't speak Spanish. How fair is that?" she said.

But Schwartz and some other Americans with Hispanic backgrounds who spoke with CNN say the problem with illegal immigrants isn't just the jobs they take. It's how they're overrunning towns like Phoenix, turning them into "mini-Mexicos" with their trash-filled streets and loud music, according to Schwartz.

Of equal concern to her friend, Martha Payan, is how she claims illegal immigrants "fleece" government coffers by collecting welfare on multiple children, or vanish without a trace after an arrest or a hospital visit.

The two women, who became acquainted through various demonstrations in the metro Phoenix area, met Thursday to discuss their views outside the Maricopa County Municipal building, as more backlash against the controversial immigration law continued to flood the city.

Latin pop star Shakira arrived in town Thursday to discuss SB 1070 with Mayor Phil Gordon, who has vowed to fight the law. This comes a day after Mexico urged its citizens not to travel to Arizona.

Sporting a white baseball cap that that reads, "100% American Citizen," Schwartz says she believes that SB 1070 came about because law enforcement in Phoenix was fed up over not being able to ask suspects about their immigration status.

"Any time an American does something wrong or breaks the law they're going to pay the consequences. Whenever an illegal does something wrong they get a new ID and become a new person," she says. "I want the laws same for everybody here, not bent for them."

The 59-year-old mother of four adult children says her Mexican parents and grandparents taught her a respect for the law at an early age. Her grandmother, who lived in Juarez, Mexico, after being kicked out of the United States for smuggling drugs, encouraged her to get a good education and speak English, her second language, outside of the home.

"If I entered another country illegally I'd go to jail, yet they're demanding better treatment than their government would give us," she says.

Anna Gaines, a Mexican-born U.S. citizen, says she took up the fight against illegal immigration after becoming disillusioned by the attitudes of immigrant families that she witnessed as a teacher in the Paradise Valley School District in Paradise, Arizona.

"Many of these families were having one child after another just to earn a paycheck from the U.S. government and they didn't care about their children's education," says Gaines, the controversial founder of American Citizens United, a grass-roots organization known for its extreme views on immigration enforcement. "They didn't want to contribute, just take."

Gaines, who came to the United States as a nurse on a work visa during the Vietnam War and met her current husband, says she thinks immigrants have changed over the years.

"There used to be a level of dignity and self-respect. They were hard-working people who wanted to contribute to American society because it was better than where they came from," says Gaines, a petite woman in her 70s. "But our government has been giving them handouts for so long that now they expect them."

Gaines says SB 1070 mirrors federal law on fortifying the borders, allowing local officials to enforce immigration law in a manner that the federal government should have been doing all along.

"We as Americans have the right to defend this country's laws. There's nothing racist about protecting the country," she says.

Payan, originally from Puerto Rico, hopes the law will deter future illegal immigration.

"I hope it stops trespassers and lets people know the law is the law and you cross that border illegally, it's a crime," she says.

Payan has also been called "traidora," or traitor, by neighbors in her primarily Hispanic neighborhood who know how she feels about illegal immigrants.

"They know how I feel. I don't hide my feeling," she says. "I've already had by apartment broken into and had my car hit by an illegal. What more do I have to lose?"


SOURCE:
http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/04/30/arizona.hispanics.immigration/?hpt=C1

Austrian Econ Disciple
07-18-2010, 12:16 AM
Some Hispanic Americans hope law deters illegal immigration (http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/04/30/arizona.hispanics.immigration/?hpt=C1)


CNN
April 30, 2010


Phoenix, Arizona (CNN) -- Sue Schwartz says she's been called a racist so many times she doesn't mind the label anymore. If wanting immigrants to enter the country legally, like her great-grandparents from Mexico, and obey the laws of the land makes her racist, then so be it, she says firmly.

"I'm getting to the point I wear it with pride," says Schwartz, a lifelong Arizonan who has warily watched the growth of the illegal immigrant population in the state over the course of her life.

About 500,000 unauthorized immigrants were believed to live in Arizona in 2008, and 11.9 million nationwide, up from 3.5 million nationwide in 1990, according to a Pew Hispanic Center report published in 2009.

This year, the tide is finally turning in her favor, she says, with the passage of SB 1070, aimed at cracking down on illegal immigration.

The new law requires immigrants to carry their alien registration documents at all times and requires police to question people if there is reason to suspect they're in the United States illegally.

Read the full text of Senate Bill 1070 (PDF) (http://www.azleg.gov/legtext/49leg/2r/bills/sb1070s.pdf)

"I hope it makes a lot of them leave on their own, self-deportation. Hopefully that'll open up more jobs. There's a lot of people here who will do menial jobs -- maybe not pick lettuce, but these people aren't just picking lettuce any more," says Schwartz.
The new law also targets those who hire illegal immigrant day laborers or knowingly transport them.

What will Arizona immigration law do? (http://www.cnn.com/2010/POLITICS/04/23/immigration.faq/index.html)

Schwartz, a retired USPS worker, says undocumented workers are taking jobs from citizens like her teenage granddaughter, who hasn't been able to find a job since she began looking after she turned 15.

"She can't even work at the Hometown Buffet if she doesn't speak Spanish. How fair is that?" she said.

But Schwartz and some other Americans with Hispanic backgrounds who spoke with CNN say the problem with illegal immigrants isn't just the jobs they take. It's how they're overrunning towns like Phoenix, turning them into "mini-Mexicos" with their trash-filled streets and loud music, according to Schwartz.

Of equal concern to her friend, Martha Payan, is how she claims illegal immigrants "fleece" government coffers by collecting welfare on multiple children, or vanish without a trace after an arrest or a hospital visit.

The two women, who became acquainted through various demonstrations in the metro Phoenix area, met Thursday to discuss their views outside the Maricopa County Municipal building, as more backlash against the controversial immigration law continued to flood the city.

Latin pop star Shakira arrived in town Thursday to discuss SB 1070 with Mayor Phil Gordon, who has vowed to fight the law. This comes a day after Mexico urged its citizens not to travel to Arizona.

Sporting a white baseball cap that that reads, "100% American Citizen," Schwartz says she believes that SB 1070 came about because law enforcement in Phoenix was fed up over not being able to ask suspects about their immigration status.

"Any time an American does something wrong or breaks the law they're going to pay the consequences. Whenever an illegal does something wrong they get a new ID and become a new person," she says. "I want the laws same for everybody here, not bent for them."

The 59-year-old mother of four adult children says her Mexican parents and grandparents taught her a respect for the law at an early age. Her grandmother, who lived in Juarez, Mexico, after being kicked out of the United States for smuggling drugs, encouraged her to get a good education and speak English, her second language, outside of the home.

"If I entered another country illegally I'd go to jail, yet they're demanding better treatment than their government would give us," she says.

Anna Gaines, a Mexican-born U.S. citizen, says she took up the fight against illegal immigration after becoming disillusioned by the attitudes of immigrant families that she witnessed as a teacher in the Paradise Valley School District in Paradise, Arizona.

"Many of these families were having one child after another just to earn a paycheck from the U.S. government and they didn't care about their children's education," says Gaines, the controversial founder of American Citizens United, a grass-roots organization known for its extreme views on immigration enforcement. "They didn't want to contribute, just take."

Gaines, who came to the United States as a nurse on a work visa during the Vietnam War and met her current husband, says she thinks immigrants have changed over the years.

"There used to be a level of dignity and self-respect. They were hard-working people who wanted to contribute to American society because it was better than where they came from," says Gaines, a petite woman in her 70s. "But our government has been giving them handouts for so long that now they expect them."

Gaines says SB 1070 mirrors federal law on fortifying the borders, allowing local officials to enforce immigration law in a manner that the federal government should have been doing all along.

"We as Americans have the right to defend this country's laws. There's nothing racist about protecting the country," she says.

Payan, originally from Puerto Rico, hopes the law will deter future illegal immigration.

"I hope it stops trespassers and lets people know the law is the law and you cross that border illegally, it's a crime," she says.

Payan has also been called "traidora," or traitor, by neighbors in her primarily Hispanic neighborhood who know how she feels about illegal immigrants.

"They know how I feel. I don't hide my feeling," she says. "I've already had by apartment broken into and had my car hit by an illegal. What more do I have to lose?"


SOURCE:
http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/04/30/arizona.hispanics.immigration/?hpt=C1

This tripe pisses me off everytime I read it.

Fredom101
07-18-2010, 12:18 AM
CNN, just pumping the propaganda.

FrankRep
07-18-2010, 12:20 AM
CNN, just pumping the propaganda.

Just Propaganda?


Legal Mexican Immigrants Standing Up Against Illegal Immigration, Amnesty


YouTube - • Crash Politics • Legal Hispanic American Stand Against Illegal Immigration! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mIY6XUFVBsk&feature=player_embedded)

Brian4Liberty
07-18-2010, 12:21 AM
This tripe pisses me off everytime I read it.

Does this modification make you feel more comfortable?


"Hopefully that'll open up more jobs. There's a lot of people here who will do menial jobs -- if government payments for not working didn't pay more."

jbuttell
07-18-2010, 12:48 AM
Legal Mexican Immigrants Standing Up Against Illegal Immigration, Amnesty


YouTube - • Crash Politics • Legal Hispanic American Stand Against Illegal Immigration! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mIY6XUFVBsk&feature=player_embedded)




Some Hispanic Americans hope law deters illegal immigration (http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/04/30/arizona.hispanics.immigration/?hpt=C1)



Those legal mexican immigrants being against illegal immigration? What racists!! :rolleyes:

Dr.3D
07-18-2010, 12:51 AM
Those legal mexican immigrants being against illegal immigration? What racists!! :rolleyes:

I'd say the race card has been played to death. Now anybody who would say it is about race, must be either ignorant or just plain stupid.

Austrian Econ Disciple
07-18-2010, 12:57 AM
I'd say the race card has been played to death. Now anybody who would say it is about race, must be either ignorant or just plain stupid.

I wouldn't say the legal immigrants coming out against illegal immigrants are racists. They are economic ignoramuses though. They are taking meh jobs!!!!!! (not the Fed, not the taxation, not the regulation, BUT THE IMMIGRANTS!!!!!).

FrankRep
07-18-2010, 01:03 AM
I wouldn't say the legal immigrants coming out against illegal immigrants are racists. They are economic ignoramuses though. They are taking meh jobs!!!!!!

Maybe they're against Mexican Drug Cartels and human trafficking to.

Sheriff: Mexican Drug Cartels Now Control Parts of Arizona
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=250130

Austrian Econ Disciple
07-18-2010, 01:09 AM
Maybe they're against Mexican Drug Cartels and human trafficking to.

Sheriff: Mexican Drug Cartels Now Control Parts of Arizona
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=250130

We've been fighting the Colombian drug cartels for 30+ years now. What are the results? More drugs are produced today than ever before. Wow, amazing. Let's increase the Police State to intervene then!!!!

Of course, those who commit crimes against persons should be found and prosecuted, but coming up with a blanket solution is no solution whatsoever. It would be akin to me saying that fraud in the financial sector is a problem, so we should make the entire financial sector illegal thereby stopping fraud. That's no solution at all. The solution, is to End the Drug War if you are troubled by the Cartels and all the violence that comes with them.

So if that is there reasoning, then not only are they economic ignoramuses, they are just ignoramuses in general.

Lastly, I would say that person who was interviewed was more concerned about the jobs, than the cartels, so instead of speculating perhaps going off the observable words of the article would help a little.

FrankRep
07-18-2010, 01:20 AM
We've been fighting the Colombian drug cartels for 30+ years now. What are the results? More drugs are produced today than ever before. Wow, amazing. Let's increase the Police State to intervene then!!!!

What if the Federal Government allowed the drugs to come in?

CIA drug trafficking (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIA_drug_trafficking)


The United States Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) has been involved in several drug trafficking operations. Often, the CIA worked with groups which it knew were involved in drug trafficking, so that these groups would provide them with useful intelligence and material support, in exchange for allowing their criminal activities to continue[1] (http://books.google.com/books?id=jAzNQGZ0AV4C&pg=RA2-PA206&dq=cia+drug+trafficking&ei=14GFS8jwFZ6KlQS-29XZBA&cd=9#v=onepage&q=cia%20drug%20trafficking&f=false), and impeding or preventing their arrest, indictment, and imprisonment by U.S. law enforcement agencies[2] (http://books.google.com/books?id=tftW9A5cUNsC&pg=PA433&dq=cia+drug+trafficking&ei=14GFS8jwFZ6KlQS-29XZBA&cd=2#v=onepage&q=cia%20drug%20trafficking&f=false).

Wachovia Bank Admits It Laundered Millions in Mexican Drug Cash
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=236160

jbuttell
07-18-2010, 01:26 AM
I wouldn't say the legal immigrants coming out against illegal immigrants are racists.


I'd hope not...



They are economic ignoramuses though. They are taking meh jobs!!!!!! (not the Fed, not the taxation, not the regulation, BUT THE IMMIGRANTS!!!!!).

I missed the part where they said they were in favor of income tax, regulation and the fed. I know one thing is for sure. The 'meh' jobs you talk about are indeed taken by illegals. Just because you may not see it doesn't mean it isn't happening.

Kregisen
07-18-2010, 01:38 AM
I missed the part where they said they were in favor of income tax, regulation and the fed. I know one thing is for sure. The 'meh' jobs you talk about are indeed taken by illegals. Just because you may not see it doesn't mean it isn't happening.


The reason I'm against illegal immigration is because if we don't secure our borders (meaning to the point no one undocumented gets in), we'll have a national security issue. There would be nothing stopping terrorists with RPG's or AK's coming in and taking out anything in their way. (although who knows how practical it is to secure the border completely....might not really be possible?)


Anyway, the jobs issue that EVERYONE keeps spouting about should have NOTHING to do with this issue.....it doesn't matter if they help or hurt the U.S., it's irrelevant.


Although, yes, I live in Arizona and I know for a fact there are illegals here who have jobs americans apply for and don't get because they're taken by illegals....every fast food place here has them in the kitchens. There's no refuting that, however again.......doesn't matter. It shouldn't affect the illegal immigration issue.

therepublic
07-18-2010, 06:58 AM
The interesting part of the video was: Francine Busbee told Hispanics "You don't need papers to vote". For some time now illegals have been encouraged to cross the borders during voting periods in order to influence the vote, and told they could return home after casting their vote if they wanted. They have even received assistance on receiving the illegal documents that allows them to vote (drivers license).

In 2005 3% of those who showed up for Jury duty were illegal voters. http://www.heritage.org/Research/Reports/2008/07/The-Threat-of-Non-Citizen-Voting (http://www.heritage.org/Research/Reports/2008/07/The-Threat-of-Non-Citizen-Voting) And that was during a non voting period.

Are you OK with illegals from Mexico, China, Saudi Arabia... voting for our political leaders? Remember most of the third world has been enticed to vote for welfare from us to them.

YumYum
07-18-2010, 08:04 AM
I wouldn't say the legal immigrants coming out against illegal immigrants are racists. They are economic ignoramuses though. They are taking meh jobs!!!!!! (not the Fed, not the taxation, not the regulation, BUT THE IMMIGRANTS!!!!!).

You present excellent points regarding the immigration debate. I was wondering if you have a link of an article or essay that you could provide that discusses the issue of immigration and gives the anarchist capitalist views. Thanks.

romacox
07-18-2010, 08:05 AM
The interesting part of the video was: Francine Busbee told Hispanics "You don't need papers to vote". For some time now illegals have been encouraged to cross the borders during voting periods in order to influence the vote, and told they could return home after casting their vote if they wanted. They have even received assistance on receiving the illegal documents that allows them to vote (drivers license).

In 2005 3% of those who showed up for Jury duty were illegal voters. http://www.heritage.org/Research/Reports/2008/07/The-Threat-of-Non-Citizen-Voting (http://www.heritage.org/Research/Reports/2008/07/The-Threat-of-Non-Citizen-Voting) And that was during a non voting period.

Are you OK with illegals from Mexico, China, Saudi Arabia... voting for our political leaders? Remember most of the third world has been enticed to vote for welfare from us to them.

This is true. The SEIU leader, speaking in South America, promised "affordable health care for everyone".


That is the way the "One World Governance" works. Do as we want, and we give you money (its welfare disguised as "assistance in fighting the Drug War" among others).


Don't co-operate, and we bomb you. Code word: "Peace Mission", and "Spreading Democracy".

romacox
07-18-2010, 08:34 AM
P.S. That is why Ron Paul says Border Security is a Sovereignty issue.

jbuttell
07-18-2010, 10:15 AM
The reason I'm against illegal immigration is because if we don't secure our borders (meaning to the point no one undocumented gets in), we'll have a national security issue. There would be nothing stopping terrorists with RPG's or AK's coming in and taking out anything in their way. (although who knows how practical it is to secure the border completely....might not really be possible?)


Anyway, the jobs issue that EVERYONE keeps spouting about should have NOTHING to do with this issue.....it doesn't matter if they help or hurt the U.S., it's irrelevant.


Although, yes, I live in Arizona and I know for a fact there are illegals here who have jobs americans apply for and don't get because they're taken by illegals....every fast food place here has them in the kitchens. There's no refuting that, however again.......doesn't matter. It shouldn't affect the illegal immigration issue.

While I would agree that the jobs part is not the main problem, and primarily a symptom of failed policy, I'm not sure how you're going so far as to say it's irrelevant or not an issue.

FrankRep
07-18-2010, 10:17 AM
While I would agree that the jobs part is not the main problem, and primarily a symptom of failed policy, I'm not sure how you're going so far as to say it's irrelevant or not an issue.

Being worked on right now:

Arizona Dares To Defy The Government Again! - Medical Marijuana!
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=248732

Austrian Econ Disciple
07-18-2010, 04:53 PM
You present excellent points regarding the immigration debate. I was wondering if you have a link of an article or essay that you could provide that discusses the issue of immigration and gives the anarchist capitalist views. Thanks.

Block:

http://mises.org/journals/jls/21_3/21_3_2.pdf

Bastiat:

http://bastiat.net/en/about/immigration.html
http://www.econlib.org/library/Bastiat/basSoph6.html#S.2, Ch.6, To Artisans and Laborers

Richard Cobden:

http://oll.libertyfund.org/index.php?option=com_staticxt&staticfile=show.php%3Ftitle=82&layout=html



Anarchy Time w/ Kinsella, Molyneux, C4SS, etc.

http://www.blogtalkradio.com/pfpmovementradio/2010/05/10/anarchy-time

Also, it's funny how many conservatives on this site who say they support Austrianism completely decouple it when faced with their views on immigration. It's an emotional response, not a rational one. Jobs are not a zero-sum game. This defies even basic Classical Economics. They still hold on to mercantilist fables and fallacies!!! This is why so many libertarians get so frustrated when talking to paleo-cons when it comes to economics.