Official Lone Nut Thread

[Galileo Galilei]

Official Lone Nut Thread

Hello out there. I'm an avid reader of history. Among what I read, I don't neglect ancient history or the Middle Ages. Things like Gibbon's Fall of the Roman Empire and stuff like that.

OK, I need a little help.

In modern times, since 1800, here are several major political leaders who were killed, or attempted to be killed according to offical or standard histories, via a "lone nut":

Spencer Perceval (1812)
Andrew Jackson (1835)

[note that Lincoln is not included. His killer was a nut, but not a lone nut]

James Garfield (1881)
William McKinley (1901)
Ted Roosevelt (1912)
Huey Long (1935)
JFK (1963)
MLK (1968)
RFK (1968)
George Wallace (1972)
Ronald Reagan (1981)
Anthrax Attacks (2001)

There may be more that I have overlooked.

Now here is what I am getting to. Among the annals of ancient Greece, ancient Rome, the Royal Courts of Europe, and the Popes, I can't recall a single "lone nut" assassination among the hundreds that have taken place prior to 1800.

QUESTION:

Can anyone find a "lone nut" assassination prior to 1800?

:confused:

The only possible one that comes to mind is the assassination of Philip of Macedon (Alexander the Great's father), but I'm not sure that standard histories call this a lone nut, or a plot involving others including Alexander's mom.

[yokna7]

Robert Damiens, made an attempt. He was a lone nut I believe.

[Galileo Galilei]

Robert Damiens, made an attempt. He was a lone nut I believe.

Who's that?

[yokna7]

I was thinking Peter III of Russia was killed by a lone nut, but that was apparently a conspiracy?

[yokna7]

Who's that?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert-Fran%C3%A7ois_Damiens

[AmericaFyeah92]

Official Lone Nut Thread

Hello out there. I'm an avid reader of history. Among what I read, I don't neglect ancient history or the Middle Ages. Things like Gibbon's Fall of the Roman Empire and stuff like that.

OK, I need a little help.

In modern times, since 1800, here are several major political leaders who were killed, or attempted to be killed according to offical or standard histories, via a "lone nut":

Spencer Perceval (1812)
Andrew Jackson (1835)

[note that Lincoln is not included. His killer was a nut, but not a lone nut]

James Garfield (1881)
William McKinley (1901)
Ted Roosevelt (1912)
Huey Long (1935)
JFK (1963)
MLK (1968)
RFK (1968)
George Wallace (1972)
Ronald Reagan (1981)
Anthrax Attacks (2001)

There may be more that I have overlooked.

Now here is what I am getting to. Among the annals of ancient Greece, ancient Rome, the Royal Courts of Europe, and the Popes, I can't recall a single "lone nut" assassination among the hundreds that have taken place prior to 1800.

QUESTION:

Can anyone find a "lone nut" assassination prior to 1800?

:confused:

The only possible one that comes to mind is the assassination of Philip of Macedon (Alexander the Great's father), but I'm not sure that standard histories call this a lone nut, or a plot involving others including Alexander's mom.

I doubt you'll find many, or even any at all. These things don't happen chaotically

[Galileo Galilei]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert-Fran%C3%A7ois_Damiens

Good find. We can possibly move the lone nut horizen back to 1757.

It does say this:


On January 5, 1757, as the King was entering his carriage, Damiens rushed forward and stabbed him with a knife, inflicting only a slight wound. He made no attempt to escape, and was apprehended at once. He was then tortured to force him to divulge the identity of his accomplices or those who had sent him. This was unsuccessful. He was condemned as a regicide by the Parlement of Paris, and sentenced to be drawn and quartered, by horses at the Place de Grève.

[Galileo Galilei]

I was thinking Peter III of Russia was killed by a lone nut, but that was apparently a conspiracy?

I don't know anything about this one. What year are we talking?

[Galileo Galilei]

So basically, no "lone nuts" existed prior to 1757? Last chance, folks. Thousands of political assassinations in the ancient and mideaval world, and none of them by a lone nut?

[kahless]

[note that Lincoln is not included. His killer was a nut, but not a lone nut].

How was he a nut and not a patriot or insurgent?

[Pauls' Revere]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guy_Fawkes_Night

HAHAHAHA

[Galileo Galilei]

How was he a nut and not a patriot or insurgent?

I am talking about standard histories in this thread. In standard history, John Wilkes Booth was a nut, but not a lone nut, as many of his co-conspirators were convicted.

It would be remarkable if lone nuts only existed in mdoern times, wouldn't it?

[Galileo Galilei]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guy_Fawkes_Night

HAHAHAHA

This is not a "lone nut" incident. In standard history books, Fawkes is a nut, but not a "lone nut", as he was involved in a plot with other people.

I am looking for case were the standard histryr books label the assassin as a "lone nut".

[Pauls' Revere]

Ehud killed Moabite King Eglon around 1337 B.C.

http://www.bridgemanart.com/image.aspx?key=261242

[Galileo Galilei]

Ehud killed Moabite King Eglon around 1337 B.C.

http://www.bridgemanart.com/image.aspx?key=261242

Who is Ehud?

[Pauls' Revere]

This is not a "lone nut" incident. In standard history books, Fawkes is a nut, but not a "lone nut", as he was involved in a plot with other people.

I am looking for case were the standard histroy books label the assassin as a "lone nut".

True, it was the first thing that popped in my head. Get all those 5th of Novemeber alerts.
;)

[Pauls' Revere]

Who is Ehud?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ehud

Ehud ben‑Gera (Hebrew: אֵהוּד בֶּן‑גֵּרָא‎, Standard Ehud ben‑Gera Tiberian ʾĒhûḏ ben‑Gērāʾ; in the Biblical Book of Judges (3:12–4:1) was the judge who fought against the Moabite coalition, led by King Eglon. Ehud was sent to present the Israelite's annual tribute. He had blacksmiths make a short double-edged sword about twelve inches long: useful for a stabbing thrust. He hid the sword on his inner right thigh. Being left-handed, he could conceal the sword where it was not expected.

Ehud told Eglon he had a secret thing or word for him. Eglon dismissed his attendants and allowed Ehud to meet him in private. Ehud said, "I have a word/thing from God for you", drew his sword, and stabbed the king. Eglon was eviscerated by the blow, which punctured his intestines: "and the dirt came out." ("Dirt" here euphemistically refers to excrement; NOAB, Judges 3:21–22, footnote.) Eglon was so overweight that the sword disappeared into the wound and Ehud left it there.

After killing Eglon, Ehud locked the doors to the king's chamber and left. Eglon's assistants returned when too much time had elapsed and found the doors locked. They said Eglon must be "covering his feet". They "waited to the point of embarrassment". When they unlocked the door, they found their king dead. Ehud escaped to the town of Seriah in Ephraim. He sounded the shofar and rallied the Israelite tribes who killed the Moabites cutting off the fords of the Jordan River, and invaded Moab killing about 10,000 Moabite soldiers.

After the death of Eglon, king of Moab, there was peace in the land for 80 years.

[Galileo Galilei]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert-Fran%C3%A7ois_Damiens

I have one final question in this one: Did the authorities actually label this one a "lone nut" when it was all said and done? Because it says the authorites suspected the assassin had accomplices. Did the authorities conclude he had no accompolices after he refuse to confess under torture? Or did the authorities just believe he wouldn't talk?

This example needs a little more background before it can be classified with certainty.

Until it is, the oldest "lone nut" assassination I can document was in 1812.

[Pauls' Revere]

Who is Ehud?

a lone nut.

LOL

[Galileo Galilei]

a lone nut.

LOL

No, I mean was he a member of the Royal Court? Was he a Moabite?

[Galileo Galilei]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ehud

Ehud ben‑Gera (Hebrew: אֵהוּד בֶּן‑גֵּרָא‎, Standard Ehud ben‑Gera Tiberian ʾĒhûḏ ben‑Gērāʾ; in the Biblical Book of Judges (3:12–4:1) was the judge who fought against the Moabite coalition, led by King Eglon. Ehud was sent to present the Israelite's annual tribute. He had blacksmiths make a short double-edged sword about twelve inches long: useful for a stabbing thrust. He hid the sword on his inner right thigh. Being left-handed, he could conceal the sword where it was not expected.

Ehud told Eglon he had a secret thing or word for him. Eglon dismissed his attendants and allowed Ehud to meet him in private. Ehud said, "I have a word/thing from God for you", drew his sword, and stabbed the king. Eglon was eviscerated by the blow, which punctured his intestines: "and the dirt came out." ("Dirt" here euphemistically refers to excrement; NOAB, Judges 3:21–22, footnote.) Eglon was so overweight that the sword disappeared into the wound and Ehud left it there.

After killing Eglon, Ehud locked the doors to the king's chamber and left. Eglon's assistants returned when too much time had elapsed and found the doors locked. They said Eglon must be "covering his feet". They "waited to the point of embarrassment". When they unlocked the door, they found their king dead. Ehud escaped to the town of Seriah in Ephraim. He sounded the shofar and rallied the Israelite tribes who killed the Moabites cutting off the fords of the Jordan River, and invaded Moab killing about 10,000 Moabite soldiers.

After the death of Eglon, king of Moab, there was peace in the land for 80 years.

This isn't a "lone nut" case. Ehud was a Judge, representing the Israelite people. Ehud wasn't a nut.

[Pauls' Revere]

More about King Eglon of Moab.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eglon_(king)

[Pauls' Revere]

This isn't a "lone nut" case. Ehud was a Judge, representing the Israelite people. Ehud wasn't a nut.

Just cause he was a judge?
:confused:

Did he become a judge after the fact?

[Galileo Galilei]

More about King Eglon of Moab.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eglon_(king)

This still isn't a "lone nut" case. It is interesting. But Ehud was on an official polical mission and he wasn't a nut. He also escaped, which is unique for "lone nts".

[Galileo Galilei]

Just cause he was a judge?
:confused:

Not just because he was a judge. This case is a lot different than all the standard "lone nut" cases of modern history.

One way to explain it is that modern "lone nuts" have irrational motives to kill. Yes, they may be alleged to hate the person they kill, but usually, the killing does not accomplish anything for their cause and the killer is captured and either executed or imprisoned, or both. Hence, a nut.

Ehud's cause is rational, and it is implied he has people backing him up. He is an offical representative of a government and a person with some power, not just an anonymous nobody. He wasn't a loner either.

He isn't desribed by anyone as a lone nut either. This was looked at as an attack by Israel upon Moab from the beginning by an official representative of the Israeli government.

[Pauls' Revere]

This isn't a "lone nut" case. Ehud was a Judge, representing the Israelite people. Ehud wasn't a nut.

Ehud took advantage of the circumstances when he realized that God had given him a unique opportunity to confront the enemy face to face. Ehud's attitude was not, "What can I do? After all, I'm only one person and the opposition is so great!" He realized that God's people should not be subservient and paying tribute to a pagan enemy in the very land that God had given to His people. Ehud would not let this opportunity to serve the Lord slip by, so he made a special two-edged dagger for himself and creatively planned out exactly how he would capitalize on this golden opportunity to break the power of the enemy.

So, in todays media if someone said God told me to kill a political leader how would they label them?
Unless God is concidered a co-conspirator?

[Galileo Galilei]

Ehud took advantage of the circumstances when he realized that God had given him a unique opportunity to confront the enemy face to face. Ehud's attitude was not, "What can I do? After all, I'm only one person and the opposition is so great!" He realized that God's people should not be subservient and paying tribute to a pagan enemy in the very land that God had given to His people. Ehud would not let this opportunity to serve the Lord slip by, so he made a special two-edged dagger for himself and creatively planned out exactly how he would capitalize on this golden opportunity to break the power of the enemy.

So, in todays media if someone said God told me to kill a political leader how would they label them?
Unless God is concidered a co-conspirator?

Ehud didn't live in today's world. He wasn't a nut. He was an official government representative. You need to find a better example. I have not even broached the subject of whether religious texts are reliable for real history.

[Pauls' Revere]

This isn't a "lone nut" case. Ehud was a Judge, representing the Israelite people. Ehud wasn't a nut.

Where they aware of his true motives? I dunno...

[Pauls' Revere]

Ehud didn't live in today's world. He wasn't a nut. He was an official government representative. You need to find a better example. I have not even broached the subject of whether religious texts are reliable for real history.

You need not live in todays world to be a lone nut, but it helps.
Most if not all text is biased.

[Pauls' Revere]

Interesting...
http://www.amazon.com/review/R6NWJKWPDMVVF

Americans are astoundingly naive regarding assasinations. We are conditioned from grade school onward to think that assasinations are usually committed by a 'lone nut,' when all of human history shows that virtually all of the time, when a nationally prominent political leader is murdered, it is a conspiracy.

or...state sponsored murder.

[paulpwns]

Not really sure how you forgot John Lennon, murdered by the lone "right wing" "Nut" Mark David Chapman.


http://thinkpeace.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/john-lennon-peace-poster-337.jpg

[Galileo Galilei]

Not really sure how you forgot John Lennon, murdered by the lone "right wing" "Nut" Mark David Chapman.


http://thinkpeace.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/john-lennon-peace-poster-337.jpg

According to the official story, this wasn't a political assassination. But it is a good example. What I am really looking for are lone nuts prior to 1800.

[Pauls' Revere]

Here is a alphabetical list of assasinated people throughout world history by country.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_assassinated_people#India

;)

and thats a long list...

[Philhelm]

This is an interesting thread, and while I never thought about "lone nuts" in historical assassinations, I have considered society's view on violence in general. The problem is that in today's society, almost any act of violence is explained by some sort of mental illness. Part of this has to do with the mental health field, since every facet of human behavior tends to be analyzed and catalogued as a mental disorder. Of course, this isn't true, and people often have rational reasons for committing acts of violence. This is not to say that such acts are always just, but to assume that it is the result of an unhealthy mind, without giving consideration for motive, is ignorant.

[Pauls' Revere]

Ok think I found one:

Saint Henry (pyhä Henrik or piispa Henrik in Finnish, Biskop Henrik or Sankt Henrik in Swedish, Henricus in Latin; died allegedly 20 January circa 1150[1]) was a medieval Swedish clergyman.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bishop_Henry#Death_and_burial
Death and burial

Lalli killing Henry. A romanticized drawing from the 19th century.The death-lay's version of the bishop's death was different from the official vita. The bishop's killer was called Lalli. Lalli's wife Kerttu falsely claimed to him that upon leaving the manor, their ungrateful guest Henry, travelling around on his own in the middle of winter, had without permission or recompense, through violence, taken food for himself and hay for his horse. This is supposed to have enraged Lalli so that he immediately grabbed his skis and went in pursuit of the thief, finally chasing Henry down on the ice of Lake Köyliönjärvi. There he killed him on the spot with an axe.[35] In some versions of the poem, considered older, Lalli's weapon was a sword. Axe was the murder weapon of Saint Olaf, who was very popular in Finland and may have influenced Henry's legend.[42]

Bishop Henry's body was then buried at Nousiainen. According to the poem, that was the place where the team of oxen pulling his hearse stopped.[35]

Medieval folk traditions enumerate the pestilences and misfortunes which befell Lalli after his slaying of the bishop. His hair and scalp are said to have fallen out as he took off the bishop's cap, taken as a trophy. Removing the bishop's ring from his finger, just bones remained. Eventually he ran into a lake and drowned himself.[35][43]

[Pauls' Revere]

Interesting that as I look through this list most are conspiracys of some sort. Father-in-law kills king, a half brother kills prince, general kills emperor...etc.

[Pauls' Revere]

possibly this one:

On 1 August 1589, Henry III lodged with his army at Saint-Cloud, Hauts-de-Seine, prepared to attack Paris, when a young fanatical Dominican friar, Jacques Clément, carrying false papers, was granted access to deliver important documents to the King. The monk gave the King a bundle of papers and stated that he had a secret message to deliver. The King signaled for his attendants to step back for privacy, and Clément whispered in his ear while plunging a knife into his abdomen. Clément was killed on the spot by the guards.

At first the King's wound did not appear fatal, but he enjoined all the officers around him, in the event that he did not survive, to be loyal to Henry of Navarre as their new king. The following morning—the day that he was to have launched his assault to retake Paris—Henry III died.

Chaos swept the attacking army, most of it quickly melting away; the proposed attack on Paris was postponed. Inside the city, joy at the news of Henry III's death was near delirium; some hailed the assassination as an act of God.[19]

[Galileo Galilei]

Interesting...
http://www.amazon.com/review/R6NWJKWPDMVVF

Americans are astoundingly naive regarding assasinations. We are conditioned from grade school onward to think that assasinations are usually committed by a 'lone nut,' when all of human history shows that virtually all of the time, when a nationally prominent political leader is murdered, it is a conspiracy.

or...state sponsored murder.

This thread is about the Kennedys. It is about finding lone nuts prior to 1800.

[Galileo Galilei]

Here is a alphabetical list of assasinated people throughout world history by country.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_assassinated_people#India

;)

and thats a long list...

any lone nuts on the list?

[Galileo Galilei]

Ok think I found one:

Saint Henry (pyhä Henrik or piispa Henrik in Finnish, Biskop Henrik or Sankt Henrik in Swedish, Henricus in Latin; died allegedly 20 January circa 1150[1]) was a medieval Swedish clergyman.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bishop_Henry#Death_and_burial
Death and burial

Lalli killing Henry. A romanticized drawing from the 19th century.The death-lay's version of the bishop's death was different from the official vita. The bishop's killer was called Lalli. Lalli's wife Kerttu falsely claimed to him that upon leaving the manor, their ungrateful guest Henry, travelling around on his own in the middle of winter, had without permission or recompense, through violence, taken food for himself and hay for his horse. This is supposed to have enraged Lalli so that he immediately grabbed his skis and went in pursuit of the thief, finally chasing Henry down on the ice of Lake Köyliönjärvi. There he killed him on the spot with an axe.[35] In some versions of the poem, considered older, Lalli's weapon was a sword. Axe was the murder weapon of Saint Olaf, who was very popular in Finland and may have influenced Henry's legend.[42]

Bishop Henry's body was then buried at Nousiainen. According to the poem, that was the place where the team of oxen pulling his hearse stopped.[35]

Medieval folk traditions enumerate the pestilences and misfortunes which befell Lalli after his slaying of the bishop. His hair and scalp are said to have fallen out as he took off the bishop's cap, taken as a trophy. Removing the bishop's ring from his finger, just bones remained. Eventually he ran into a lake and drowned himself.[35][43]

This is a poem. An interesting poem, but it sounds more like two people got into an argument and one killed the other. Not a lone nut case.

[Galileo Galilei]

Interesting that as I look through this list most are conspiracys of some sort. Father-in-law kills king, a half brother kills prince, general kills emperor...etc.

You got it.

[Galileo Galilei]

possibly this one:

On 1 August 1589, Henry III lodged with his army at Saint-Cloud, Hauts-de-Seine, prepared to attack Paris, when a young fanatical Dominican friar, Jacques Clément, carrying false papers, was granted access to deliver important documents to the King. The monk gave the King a bundle of papers and stated that he had a secret message to deliver. The King signaled for his attendants to step back for privacy, and Clément whispered in his ear while plunging a knife into his abdomen. Clément was killed on the spot by the guards.

At first the King's wound did not appear fatal, but he enjoined all the officers around him, in the event that he did not survive, to be loyal to Henry of Navarre as their new king. The following morning—the day that he was to have launched his assault to retake Paris—Henry III died.

Chaos swept the attacking army, most of it quickly melting away; the proposed attack on Paris was postponed. Inside the city, joy at the news of Henry III's death was near delirium; some hailed the assassination as an act of God.[19]

OK, this one sounds pretty close. But look here:


During the French Wars of Religion, Clément became fanatically religious and an ardent partisan of the Catholic League. Viewing Protestantism as heresy, he talked of exterminating the Huguenots and formed a plan to kill Henry III. His project was encouraged by some of the heads of the League, in particular Catherine de Guise, the Duchess Montpensier. He was assured of temporal rewards if he succeeded and of eternal bliss if he failed. Having obtained letters for the king, he left Paris on July 31, 1589, and reached Saint-Cloud, the headquarters of Henry, who was besieging Paris, on August 1, 1589.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacques_Cl%C3%A9ment

This does sound like a nut, but not a lone nut. It looks like he had help. The fact that he killed a King who was preparing to attack Paris:


On 1 August 1589, Henry III lodged with his army at Saint-Cloud, Hauts-de-Seine, prepared to attack Paris,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_III_of_France

Trying to sell this as a lone nut is tough, I don't see the offical historians calling it that. Sounds like a military operation to me.

[Galileo Galilei]

OK, this is everyone's last chance. We still don't have a single lone nut prior to 1750. We have thousands of political assassinations before 1750, but not a single lone nut.

If no one can find me a lone nut before 1750, I am going to let this thread die.