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View Full Version : Stoners in support of prohibition - WTH?




ronpaulhawaii
07-16-2010, 03:14 PM
http://libertarianstoner.blogspot.com/2010/07/dispensary-owners-actually-support.html


The NORML blog has reported that there are actually some dispensary owners that support prohibition and are against proposition 19 which would legalize marijuana use for every California citizen 21 and older in participating counties. (See: The Case for Prop 19)

Craig, a dispensary owner in Venice Beach, who is opposed to Prop 19 was quoted as saying:

“I’ll give you two reasons,” Craig said. “One is big tobacco. Did you know that Phillip Morris just bought 400 acres of land up in Northern California? The minute marijuana becomes legal, they’ll mass produce and flood the market. And of course, they’ll add the same toxins they put in regular cigarettes to get you addicted, and very little THC, so you’ll have to buy more… In short, they’re going to ruin weed.” He gestured around his beloved shop, with every flavor of every strain, in its purist form, selling for at-cost prices. “I like the way things are now.”

Another owner of a dispensary in Sacramento named Lanette Davies,though trying to justify it with points similar to Craig's,has also taken a stance against marijuana legalization and has even donated money she made from selling marijuana to help keep it illegal!

Though Proposition 19 is not a perfect legalization of marijuana is a very big step in the right direction and this backlash from these dispensary owners and others is a distrubing trend though honestly its to be expected.

When prop 215 was passed in 1996 it created a special dispensation for a select group of people where by they could sell marijuana legally,conceivably at any price,but no one else could. In other words it created a state sponsored monopoly. Now obviously with Cannabis still being widely available on the Black market it wasn't a perfect monopoly but as getting a card became as easy as telling a doctor you had a stubbed toe and paying him $200 dispensary's became much more popular as they offered several benefits over the black market. Included in those benefits was a greater degree of (Though not complete) protection against prosecution,higher quality weed,and a variety of weed products. All these things worked in favor of the owners of those dispensaries as they had no competition in those areas mentioned outside of other dispensaries. That's not to say Prop 215 didn't need to pass because without it we wouldn't have gotten this far but it created two different classes of citizen,one that can do something legally and one that can't.

Now with this ballot proposal as early as November the 2nd their monopoly on connoisseur weed and weed products could end.

That is at least the way they look at it,its monopolist crony capitalism at its finest and its sickening. But its not sickening because they want to make a profit,no its sickening because they want to make a profit with the protection of the government and off the backs of many very sick people sometimes lost and forgotten in a sea of healthy card holders.

The Rand Corporation,hardly a supporter of legalization, did a study on the possible effects of prop 19 and found that if it passed it would lower the price of high quality cannabis by 80% from about $340 an ounce to $35 an ounce. These statists hate the idea of having to slash their prices because of waves of new competition in the marketplace and the ones who will suffer most if this proposition doesn't pass are dieing medical marijuana patients. How compassionate for a compassion club right?

What these Stoned Crony Capitalists don't seem to realize is according to the Rand corp study,though the price would be slashed, over time demand would increase as well. No study is needed to come to that conclusion of course(nor is it needed to know that legalization would drop prices) but these people seem to lack knowledge on even basic economics.

Sure its true there will be much more competition but they some how fail to see the obvious benefit of Millions of new costumers.

I don't like Walmart,they persecute terminal cancer patients, but they have a simple proven strategy for making money and that's selling high volumes at a low profit,these dispensary's could and statistically would do much better long term in a much freer market.

Further more addressing Craig's,the dispensary nazi from earlier, concern who cares if Phillip Morris grows their own weed with horrible chemicals? The fact of the matter is after alcohol prohibition ended it wasn't only the big brewers that got back in business but also the small ones and they produced the finest beer in the world. Though there were a few decades where it looked like the state had created a monopoly for the three major brewers the free market cried out for GOOD beer and now we have small micro breweries across America making High quality sudds. Also you fail to see that little clause in Prop 19 that gives people the right to grow their own high quality chemical free bud but then I know you don't even want your medical marijuana patients to know they have that right,it could hurt your state subsidized bottom line so your promotion of ignorance on that matter is understandable.

In the end this contradictory stance by some dispensary owners all comes down to economic ignorance and an over reliance on the governemnt. You can't even blame greed because if they understood the basics of how a free market(or in this case a much FREER market) worked they would know that they have a high probability of much larger profits.

Its sad really.

awake
07-16-2010, 03:17 PM
profiteers of the illegality of drugs... If legalization of pot were to happen the biggest push to stop it would be the current dealers.

coastie
07-16-2010, 03:21 PM
It is sad. This guy is WAY more concerned about his bottom line.

Whats even sadder is that he(and many others) cant seem to let it click in there heads that this is about FREEDOM to choose what goes into your body.

BTW...what, exactly, is a "stoner". Its a derogatory term at best, a collectivist one at worst.

Bruno
07-16-2010, 03:21 PM
It is sad. This guy is WAY more concerned about his bottom line.

Whats even sadder is that he(and many others) cant seem to let it click in there heads that this is about FREEDOM to choose what goes into your body.

BTW...what, exactly, is a "stoner". Its a derogatory term at best, a collectivist one at worst.

+1

Schiff_FTW
07-16-2010, 03:41 PM
I don't agree with these guys but I can kind of see where they're coming from. In many ways (availability, quality, variety, etc.) I believe the current black market has advantages for the consumer over the highly regulated, heavily taxed, corporate-controlled status-quo that would inevitably result from so-called "legalization".

ronpaulhawaii
07-16-2010, 03:42 PM
BTW...what, exactly, is a "stoner". Its a derogatory term at best, a collectivist one at worst. :rolleyes: please note URL of blog... methinks some folk are overly sensitive. Maybe I'm just old

Kotin
07-16-2010, 03:47 PM
I don't agree with these guys but I can kind of see where they're coming from. In many ways (availability, quality, variety, etc.) I believe the current black market has advantages for the consumer over the highly regulated, heavily taxed, corporate-controlled status-quo that would inevitably result from so-called "legalization".

Like what?? Being put in prison? Having your house raided and your dog killed?



Yup lots of benefits.

Dr.3D
07-16-2010, 03:56 PM
I don't agree with these guys but I can kind of see where they're coming from. In many ways (availability, quality, variety, etc.) I believe the current black market has advantages for the consumer over the highly regulated, heavily taxed, corporate-controlled status-quo that would inevitably result from so-called "legalization".

Left alone, the market would open up and you would actually see more and better varieties hit the market. It would after all be for profit and thus those who do it best, make the most money. Right now, it is very hard to be able to come up with the better quality product without running into problems with the government.

brandon
07-16-2010, 04:14 PM
BTW...what, exactly, is a "stoner". Its a derogatory term at best, a collectivist one at worst.

Oh come on. don't be so sensitive. We all know what a stoner is. I myself was a stoner for several years. Glad I'm not anymore... :)

dannno
07-16-2010, 04:16 PM
Oh come on. don't be so sensitive. We all know what a stoner is. I myself was a stoner for several years. Glad I'm not anymore... :)

Well I am proud and glad that I still am :cool:

And ya know, perhaps it could help with your negative attitude regarding the current Senate races :confused:

coastie
07-16-2010, 04:20 PM
Oh come on. don't be so sensitive. We all know what a stoner is. I myself was a stoner for several years. Glad I'm not anymore... :)

You guys are the one's being "sensitive"...

Again, what exactly is a stoner? The things I "know" about the word are all derogatory. You yourself admit that "glad I'm not anymore".

All I'm saying is the word suggests that everyone who smokes pot has the same lack of self control with it that you did, and that's certainly not the case.:rolleyes:;)

dannno
07-16-2010, 04:21 PM
You guys are the one's being "sensitive"...

Again, what exactly is a stoner? The things I "know" about the word are all derogatory. You yourself admit that "glad I'm not anymore".

All I'm saying is the word suggests that everyone who smokes pot has the same lack of self control with it that you did, and that's certainly not the case.:rolleyes:;)

A stoner is somebody who smokes every day or almost every day. It is only derogatory if you think it is. There are plenty of really great, intelligent, caring and hard working people who smoke every day. There are plenty of great, intelligent, caring and hardworking people who don't smoke herb, but odds are, I find, that stoners or even the occasional toker more often fit into more of those categories than your average person. Just personal experience.

coastie
07-16-2010, 04:24 PM
A stoner is somebody who smokes every day or almost every day. It is only derogatory if you think it is. There are plenty of really great, intelligent, caring and hard working people who smoke every day.


Which was exactly my point....some of these same people smoke everyday, and are not "stoners". A "stoner", everywhere I grew up, smoked everyday/all day and didnt do much of anything else.

Thread title "Stoners support Prohibition"..while I think that buisiness owner is a douche-he's running a buisiness, not something you'd expect from a "stoner".:rolleyes:

EDIT:

B4 joining military, I smoked "all day/everyday/10 times a day"-and still held down 2 jobs supporting my family.

dannno
07-16-2010, 04:30 PM
Which was exactly my point....some of these same people smoke everyday, and are not "stoners". A "stoner", everywhere I grew up, smoked everyday and didnt do much of anything else.

Thread title "Stoners support Prohibition"..while I think that buisiness owner is a douche-he's running a buisiness, not something you'd expect from a "stoner".:rolleyes:

That's true, it didn't really say in the article whether the people commenting actually partake or whether they are just profiting off the market.

A stoner can be a person who doesn't do much, but is that really a bad thing in our society?

Nirvana to help make my point:

YouTube - Kurt Cobain stoned interview (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVeVCwI4VV0)

Every.. and I mean every person I knew/know well who was/is a 'lazy stoner' was very well aware of what a fucked up system we are living in, and part of the reason they chose to be lazy was because they didn't want to support it. So the question is, does herb really make people lazy, or does it help those who live in destructive societies like ours realize what a destructive force their society is becoming and actively choose not to help further said society :confused: It's almost like a collective consciousness decision (as bad as the word collectivism is around here, there can be quite a bit of usefulness in a voluntary collective.. for example, I belong to medical cannabis collectives and food collectives can be good as well..)

However.. I don't think that being apart of the system is necessarily immoral either.. people have the right to produce, sell, profit, collect vast sums of wealth, have families, etc.. but somebody willing to sacrifice that part of life to help stop or slow down the train wreck, I don't think that's so bad either.

coastie
07-16-2010, 04:34 PM
That's true, it didn't really say in the article whether the people commenting actually partake or whether they are just profiting off the market.

A stoner can be a person who doesn't do much, but is that really a bad thing in our society?

Nirvana to help make my point:

YouTube - Kurt Cobain stoned interview (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVeVCwI4VV0)

Every.. and I mean every person I knew/know well who was/is a 'lazy stoner' was very well aware of what a fucked up system we are living in, and part of the reason they chose to be lazy was because they didn't want to support it. So the question is, does herb really make people lazy, or does it help those who live in destructive societies like ours realize what a destructive force their society is becoming and actively choose not to help further said society :confused: It's almost like a collective consciousness (as bad as the word collectivism is around here, there can be quite a bit of usefulness in a voluntary collective.. for example, I belong to medical cannabis collectives and food collectives can be good as well..)


Wish I could say the same...but it's close to 100% of the people I know/knew.

You're right-I started to look at the world much differently after i became a "regular" smoker.

So 2 side effects

1. Munchies(dependent on strain)

2. Free thinking

it's number 2 the .gov is scared of.

Teaser Rate
07-16-2010, 04:38 PM
Every.. and I mean every person I knew/know well who was/is a 'lazy stoner' was very well aware of what a fucked up system we are living in, and part of the reason they chose to be lazy was because they didn't want to support it. So the question is, does herb really make people lazy, or does it help those who live in destructive societies like ours realize what a destructive force their society is becoming and actively choose not to help further said society :confused: It's almost like a collective consciousness decision (as bad as the word collectivism is around here, there can be quite a bit of usefulness in a voluntary collective.. for example, I belong to medical cannabis collectives and food collectives can be good as well..)

However.. I don't think that being apart of the system is necessarily immoral either.. people have the right to produce, sell, profit, collect vast sums of wealth, have families, etc..

I agree that people have the right to live their lives whichever way they want, and if that includes getting high all day, then so be it.

However, I find the idea that stoners are somehow connected to a deep truth behind the problems of our society to be silly; they are, for the most part overgrown teenagers who haven't been able to deal with to the hardships of life yet. (at least in my experience)

brandon
07-16-2010, 04:40 PM
Well I am proud and glad that I still am :cool:

And ya know, perhaps it could help with your negative attitude regarding the current Senate races :confused:

lol no hate dude. Most of my friends are still stoners. It's just a personal thing...it didn't work for me.

If I smoked pot I think I would hate politics even more.

Anti Federalist
07-16-2010, 04:45 PM
http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_l2ktipMAB91qazwjqo1_500.jpg

dannno
07-16-2010, 04:48 PM
However, I find the idea that stoners are somehow connected to a deep truth behind the problems of our society to be silly;

I didn't say they were connected, I said it is almost like they are connected.. People who smoke tend to be much more contemplative and willing to think about different ideas and have a tendency to be able to turn off the horrible, horrible, HORRIBLE trait that most people in this country have known as cognitive dissonance. Cognitive dissonance is one of the biggest hurdles our movement has to jump through, and it is partly for that reason that I believe the cannabis contingent in the liberty movement to be as big as it is.. we don't have as much cognitive dissonance, imo..



they are, for the most part overgrown teenagers who haven't been able to deal with to the hardships of life yet. (at least in my experience)

I would say that a lot of those types of people would be attracted to any type of underground activity. Don't blame the plant for their problems. Maybe it is even helping them deal with it. It is pretty safe, anyway.. much safer than alcohol.

ronpaulhawaii
07-16-2010, 05:21 PM
I was on a train reading FB on my phone. I saw that article and thought a few folk here might be interested in it. I thought of titling it "Hey Danno! What do you think of this?" :D I wasn't about to try typing the entire article headline on the tiny keyboard, so chose something easy I knew would get attention from our... Cannabis Aficionados . I never in a million years imagined "stoner" to be derogatory. Again, maybe I'm just old...

Further, the "collectivist" charge is getting old and smacks of politically correct claptrap. I mean, give me a friggin break. To me a "stoner" is someone who enjoys smoking pot. Simple as that.

dannno
07-16-2010, 05:26 PM
To me a "stoner" is someone who enjoys smoking pot. Simple as that.

That's probably a better description.. there are people who enjoy smoking herb, who don't do it every day (maybe a couple times or once a week, or once a month, or even less) who have a calm demeanor and really do enjoy/respect the herb.. a few in this category might not prefer that title, but others would take it with great pride.