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Reason
07-15-2010, 08:19 PM
The Gadsden Flag Has Been Effectively Co-Opted, what to use instead?

Cry about it all you want, but you know it's true.

I can only look at so many pictures of idiotic neocon sheeple waving it around while they protest against mosques and vote for warmongers and still stomach to put it on my car.

It's no longer an effective tool for initiating open minded conversations.

So the question is...

What to replace it with?

I already have a C4L sticker and a "Turn off your TV, Think for yourself!" sticker.

Suggestions?

Romulus
07-15-2010, 08:21 PM
Aw cmon. They just tweaked your plate a little... keep that flag on there!

Liberty Star
07-15-2010, 08:24 PM
Lets go with the flag that represents one of our most beautiful allies in the world today.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2010/2125051431_a59a14f167.jpg

tangent4ronpaul
07-15-2010, 08:29 PM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v80/Kaio-raven/Untitled-1copy.jpg

-t

libertybrewcity
07-15-2010, 08:30 PM
instead of giving up the flag, why don't we take it back?

james1906
07-15-2010, 08:31 PM
http://vermontrepublic.org/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=29&g2_serialNumber=2

http://www.americanmethod.com/images/Appeal-Heaven.gif

http://www.texiantradenpost.com/images/1824flag.jpg

http://domadisonheights.com/shop/images/bonnie%20blue%20flag.jpg
(this is not Somalia!)

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_jq0eDb7YTE4/R8YuSHFVFrI/AAAAAAAAAQc/ACkdHS_HEHA/s400/592px-Flag_of_Sealand.svg.png

libertybrewcity
07-15-2010, 08:32 PM
http://restoretherepublic.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/take-back-america1.jpg

libertybrewcity
07-15-2010, 08:33 PM
HAHAHA...
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/90/Jordanian_communist_party_flag.PNG

just kidding..

Liberty Star
07-15-2010, 08:35 PM
http://vermontrepublic.org/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=29&g2_serialNumber=2

http://www.americanmethod.com/images/Appeal-Heaven.gif




Too much green would antagonize PC Obama advisors unnecessarily.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=obama+green++dress+code+cover+up&btnG=Search

Come to think of it, any wonder Obama libs and neocons always attacking RP & liberty tree?

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/libertyforestlogo.png


http://http://www.ronpaulforums.com/libertyforestlogo.png

Kludge
07-15-2010, 08:40 PM
Didn´t you seek to become a cop....?

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_ELB7CWBWUTQ/SyFd7_K2Z9I/AAAAAAAAFro/5X2ooMqMWog/s400/16757.3460.zoom.jpg

:p

Anti Federalist
07-15-2010, 08:43 PM
http://www.joebrower.com/PHILE_PILE/PIX/FLAGS/Come_and_Take_It-AR15.gif

ronpaulhawaii
07-15-2010, 08:49 PM
I ain't gonna stop flying my Gadsden, but just added this to my collection

http://www.ggrc-sar-il.org/First%20Navy%20Jack.gif

RedLightning
07-15-2010, 09:01 PM
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj277/Red93Lightning/800px-US_Sons_OfLiberty_9Stripes_Fl.png

Live_Free_Or_Die
07-15-2010, 09:06 PM
Symbols and labels can always be co-opted.

The Liberty Philosophy is what should be used.

james1906
07-15-2010, 09:22 PM
http://ginjagodfollower.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/nepal-flag2.jpg
Because everyone else is a square!

tangent4ronpaul
07-15-2010, 09:34 PM
http://restoretherepublic.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/take-back-america1.jpg

I LIKE this one!

-t

GunnyFreedom
07-15-2010, 09:40 PM
http://i27.tinypic.com/29w8scj.gif

jkr
07-15-2010, 09:56 PM
if you feel the need for a standard, a state flag will sufice.

dr. hfn
07-15-2010, 09:58 PM
stop crying about co-opting and keep using it

Kludge
07-15-2010, 09:59 PM
if you feel the need for a standard, a state flag will sufice.

:D

Anti Federalist
07-15-2010, 10:02 PM
if you feel the need for a standard, a state flag will sufice.

http://www.epilepsyfoundation.org/local/massri/images/NH-State-Flag_2.png

Philhelm
07-15-2010, 10:04 PM
How 'bout a basic "Ron Paul 2012" sign?

Reason
07-15-2010, 10:07 PM
Aw cmon. They just tweaked your plate a little... keep that flag on there!

lol


instead of giving up the flag, why don't we take it back?

Yes, this is the only reason I have left it on this long, it really pisses me off that I am even having to consider the misconceptions that the flag is now giving people. I have lost track of the number of times I have explained the history of the flag to people that thought it was the new flag for FOX NEWS VIEWERS... /vomit


http://restoretherepublic.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/take-back-america1.jpg

Seems too partisan to me.


http://www.joebrower.com/PHILE_PILE/PIX/FLAGS/Come_and_Take_It-AR15.gif

I have seen a few of these around out here, I would need one with a picture of a shotgun tho lol ;)


I ain't gonna stop flying my Gadsden, but just added this to my collection

http://www.ggrc-sar-il.org/First%20Navy%20Jack.gif

I like this one the most so far.


Symbols and labels can always be co-opted.

The Liberty Philosophy is what should be used.

Of course, and it is exactly that which I am thinking about, I am no longer confident that the flag sticker is doing more good than partisan facilitation harm.


if you feel the need for a standard, a state flag will sufice.

Yeah but then it would be the CA flag... meh... Is there a "i'm here for the weather, ocean, and family only and would rather have those 3 things in NH" flag?

tangent4ronpaul
07-15-2010, 10:12 PM
http://restoretherepublic.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/take-back-america1.jpg

Anyone know where I can find this flag?

-t

jkr
07-15-2010, 10:12 PM
OH-hi-O gets a pendant

haha mfrs

tremendoustie
07-15-2010, 10:27 PM
if you feel the need for a standard, a state flag will sufice.

How about this:

http://www.americanmethod.com/images/Moultrie-Flag.gif

tremendoustie
07-15-2010, 10:30 PM
Better yet:

http://freestateproject.org/images/FSPGadsdenFlag.240.jpg

tremendoustie
07-15-2010, 10:31 PM
Or, for a nice pro nullfiication/independence statement, put your state flag above the US flag. :D

TNforPaul45
07-15-2010, 10:36 PM
I'm being an Ass, but I can't help it:

http://wwp.greenwichmeantime.com/time-zone/usa/tennessee/images/state-flag-tennessee.jpg

Anti Federalist
07-15-2010, 10:45 PM
Maybe get the Tea O Cons to switch.

Tell 'em to use this one.

YouTube - American Flag with 61 Stars (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tmLDSuK-nSk)

ronpaulhawaii
07-15-2010, 10:46 PM
How about this:

http://www.americanmethod.com/images/Moultrie-Flag.gif

The historic Ft Moultrie has the LIBERTY in the crescent

http://www.jagriffin.net/Flags/Ft%20Moultrie%20flag.gif

http://files.posterous.com/branded666/Q1PGxZmZ1TcyQHFSkuEI2aLvW9DkkK3NqBqPkqLGMyCgAKR2q2 ImMBnWj6p1/IMG_0732.jpg?AWSAccessKeyId=1C9REJR1EMRZ83Q7QRG2&Expires=1279255764&Signature=6OIWjVFbraISH6AT%2BOA6x5eiZZk%3D

South Park Fan
07-15-2010, 11:22 PM
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/9/90/Anarcho-capitalist_flag.svg/229px-Anarcho-capitalist_flag.svg.png
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/9a/Confederate_Rebel_Flag.svg/220px-Confederate_Rebel_Flag.svg.png

Anti Federalist
07-15-2010, 11:32 PM
http://www.loeser.us/flags/images/w1812/plattsburg_flag_1814.gif

jkr
07-15-2010, 11:32 PM
some dude had a southern cross bandana the other day.

glad i looked into it more, peace comes with wisdome & time

Monarchist
07-15-2010, 11:34 PM
I like to fly this:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/80/Kaiserstandarte.svg/525px-Kaiserstandarte.svg.png

The Patriot
07-15-2010, 11:34 PM
if you feel the need for a standard, a state flag will sufice.

I fly a California Flag. Maybe it is just my bias as a Californian, but it is the most handsome state flag in my opinion. It is up there as one of the best looking flags, up there with the Stars and Bars.
http://www.kameda-lab.org/private/flags/img/california.jpg

Anti Federalist
07-15-2010, 11:36 PM
This was passed off as being the flag itself:

http://www.galleryoftherepublic.com/images/amflags/fortmoultrie_fr.jpg

But it turns out that can't be the case, as you pointed out, the original, which did have Liberty in the crescent, was shot to pieces by the British.

The "LIBERTY at the bottom" design must have come after the fact.



The historic Ft Moultrie has the LIBERTY in the crescent

http://www.jagriffin.net/Flags/Ft%20Moultrie%20flag.gif

http://files.posterous.com/branded666/Q1PGxZmZ1TcyQHFSkuEI2aLvW9DkkK3NqBqPkqLGMyCgAKR2q2 ImMBnWj6p1/IMG_0732.jpg?AWSAccessKeyId=1C9REJR1EMRZ83Q7QRG2&Expires=1279255764&Signature=6OIWjVFbraISH6AT%2BOA6x5eiZZk%3D

TNforPaul45
07-15-2010, 11:37 PM
For the tea party, they need a flag with Palin, Huckabeeeeeeeeeeee, and Romney against a blood red background that fades down to black. At the bottom, it would say

Pacis per Victum (Peace through Conquest)

Anti Federalist
07-15-2010, 11:38 PM
http://www.loc.gov/exhibits/religion/f0307s.jpg

TNforPaul45
07-16-2010, 12:07 AM
For the GOP Tea Party:

http://i31.tinypic.com/2w4z1u9.png

John Taylor
07-16-2010, 12:24 AM
For the tea party, they need a flag with Palin, Huckabeeeeeeeeeeee, and Romney against a blood red background that fades down to black. At the bottom, it would say

Pacis per Victum (Peace through Conquest)

Bullshit, there on hundreds of thousands of tea partiers who voted for and support Ron Paul.

djdellisanti4
07-16-2010, 12:39 AM
I'm glad someone brought this up. That flag hardly feels libertarian anymore. I'm hoping some original designs come up. Something with a werewolf!

Austrian Econ Disciple
07-16-2010, 01:11 AM
I like to fly this:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/80/Kaiserstandarte.svg/525px-Kaiserstandarte.svg.png

I bet you are a fan of Erik von Kuehnelt-Leddihn :p

Why do Monarchs always have the most badass flags?

Why are we borrowing flags? We need to come up with our own regalia. Something to identify ourselves. I like gold/black, but thats just me.

Something simple....Black background with LIBERTY in gold in the middle.

TNforPaul45
07-16-2010, 01:16 AM
Bullshit, there on hundreds of thousands of tea partiers who voted for and support Ron Paul.

They may have voted for Paul in the past...

But if they are attending Sarah Palin rallies and tearing up whenever Glen Beck (Ben Gleck) speaks at these contemporary "tea party" rallies, they do not support Ron Paul, disagree with his political stances, and would not vote for him again, being lured over by the diluted neo-con-soft message of the current GOP "radicals."

Guar-awn-teee it.

pahs1994
07-16-2010, 01:30 AM
Use my avatar. The philadelphia lighthorse
http://www.bwrcsar.us/flags_files/image017.gif

Distinguished Gentleman
07-16-2010, 02:23 AM
How about a liberty/rpf flag photoshop contest? A blank flag below for anyone who wants to get started.

http://img693.imageshack.us/img693/4019/flagblank.gif

Austrian Econ Disciple
07-16-2010, 03:21 AM
Eh, I cooked this up in like 5 minutes. Something simple like this.

http://img638.imageshack.us/img638/9945/liberty.gif

LittleLightShining
07-16-2010, 03:55 AM
The Gadsden Flag Has Been Effectively Co-Opted, what to use instead?

Cry about it all you want, but you know it's true.

I can only look at so many pictures of idiotic neocon sheeple waving it around while they protest against mosques and vote for warmongers and still stomach to put it on my car.

It's no longer an effective tool for initiating open minded conversations.

So the question is...

What to replace it with?

I already have a C4L sticker and a "Turn off your TV, Think for yourself!" sticker.

Suggestions?VT C4L has a Gadsden flag based logo that gets a LOT of positive responses around here. I'll never give up the Gadsden but I get what you're saying.

Despite all of my criticism of Campaign For Liberty I still have a "Real Change" bumpersticker on my car with an antiwar.com sticker just below it.

A Son of Liberty
07-16-2010, 04:04 AM
As far as state flags go, I love my state's banner:

http://www.abflags.com/_flags/flags-of-the-world/states/usa/Maryland%20flag/Maryland%20flag-XL.gif

AF knocks it out of the park with this:

http://www.loc.gov/exhibits/religion/f0307s.jpg

A Son of Liberty
07-16-2010, 04:07 AM
How about Mencken's suggestion?

http://flag.blackened.net/anarpics/blfl1.gif

Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats.

nobody's_hero
07-16-2010, 05:38 AM
Good lord. If we're just going to run away every time the neocons co-opt something, we're doomed. DOOMED!

Don't we have better things to do than worry about how the idiots on the left try to associate us with idiots on the right, when they wouldn't care WHAT flag we use—they're still going to say whatever the hell they can to discredit us anyway?

Face it folks: We're hated because we're right and they're wrong. Wear that like your badge of honor.

Michael Landon
07-16-2010, 06:04 AM
I like to fly this:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/80/Kaiserstandarte.svg/525px-Kaiserstandarte.svg.png

I love this flag. Thanks.

- ML

WorldonaString
07-16-2010, 06:28 AM
How about this:

http://www.americanmethod.com/images/Moultrie-Flag.gif

I bought this flag during Ron Pauls 08 campaign. I think its great! :)

WorldonaString
07-16-2010, 06:55 AM
I'm glad someone brought this up. That flag hardly feels libertarian anymore. I'm hoping some original designs come up. Something with a werewolf!

Has everyone seen this grassroots design?

http://www.dailypaul.com/node/130056 - flag flyin

http://www.dailypaul.com/node/103445 - meaning behind the symbol

This flag saw recent action at the G20 protests as well!

http://www.dailypaul.com/node/139761 Gadsden Flag & Our Grassroots Liberty Flag Front of Toronto Police Brutality Protest :cool:

LittleLightShining
07-16-2010, 07:27 AM
Good lord. If we're just going to run away every time the neocons co-opt something, we're doomed. DOOMED!

Don't we have better things to do than worry about how the idiots on the left try to associate us with idiots on the right, when they wouldn't care WHAT flag we use—they're still going to say whatever the hell they can to discredit us anyway?

Face it folks: We're hated because we're right and they're wrong. Wear that like your badge of honor.Thanks for saying that.

The Gadsden has always been the VT Ron Paul meetup group/C4L/VermontersForLiberty flag.

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs164.snc1/6136_1199968471737_1004289963_30635375_1498222_n.j pg

Monarchist
07-16-2010, 09:25 AM
I bet you are a fan of Erik von Kuehnelt-Leddihn :p

:)
Monarchy and War is a great read available here (http://mises.org/journals/jls/15_1/15_1_1.pdf) from the von Mises Institute.

Slutter McGee
07-16-2010, 09:48 AM
I really don't have a problem with the tea-party adopting the Gasden Flag. They are people who are pissed at the government.

I also wouldn't mind us chosing a new flag to more represent our movement. I specifically like the crescent with liberty. Simple, yet the meaning is clear. That being said, you know some uneducated jackasses will see the crescent and think muslim.

I still think it is a good flag to adopt

Slutter McGee

Razmear
07-16-2010, 09:59 AM
I like to fly this:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/80/Kaiserstandarte.svg/525px-Kaiserstandarte.svg.png

Got Mittens? Sounds like something mom would say on a cold day. :D

I'm personally partial to the VT state flag: Freedom And Unity

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/49/Flag_of_Vermont.svg/750px-Flag_of_Vermont.svg.png

but I still love the Gadsden flag best of all.

teamrican1
07-16-2010, 10:08 AM
I'd like a flag with the Virginia State Seal on an all black (rather than that ugly blue Virginia uses) background. Replace "Virginia" with "Liberty". The social cons/neocons will never co-opt this because of the exposed tit:

http://i849.photobucket.com/albums/ab51/profmarketing3/2920.gif

In terms of Gadsden Flags, I say we keep them, but perhaps we should make our flags Gold rather than Yellow to differentiate ourselves. Also, we should keep using the Bonnie Blue Flags, Fort Moultrie Flags, and Continental Jack Flags.

ronpaulhawaii
07-16-2010, 10:36 AM
AF knocks it out of the park with this:

http://www.loc.gov/exhibits/religion/f0307s.jpg

The sword arm comes from what may be the first flag flown in defense of American Liberty at Lexington Green.

http://www.ggrc-sar-il.org/bedford%20flag.jpg

The Latin means, "Conquer or Die"

Another great historical flag is the 1st Continental Regiment Flag

http://www.flagguys.com/img/h141.jpg


Domari Nolo "I Refuse to be Subjugated"
And man o man did they ever refuse to be subjugated. These guys were everywhere. They were important in Washington's siege of Boston. They stayed behind and were the last to leave after covering the main army's dangerous nick of time retreat from Long Island. They crossed the Delaware with Washington. They were "at Brandywine, Germantown, Monmouth, and every major skirmish, and battle all the way to Yorktown.1" where they fought “the most important part of the siege” according to General Steuben. They saw Cornwallis surrender at Yorktown and this flag was there. These guys saw action in every one of the original 13 colonies...

~~~~~~

Again, I won't be setting down my Gadsden, but another "modern" r3VOLution flag would be cool. I won't be flying any anarchy flag, nor do I think any sort of black flag will play well in the media... I do think using green will screw with tyrannical forces and that is always good :D

Brett
07-16-2010, 10:43 AM
I use the Free State Project logo pretty often on websites/forum avatars.

I like the "dont" flag that was posted on here awhile ago.
http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/9394/donts.th.jpg (http://img146.imageshack.us/i/donts.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

dannno
07-16-2010, 10:44 AM
http://i29.tinypic.com/eai685.jpg

yokna7
07-16-2010, 10:46 AM
Yeah, I like the Bonnie Blue flag.

ronpaulhawaii
07-16-2010, 10:46 AM
This flag is good for getting Tea-o-cons thinking

http://agora-dialogue.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/corporate_america_flag.jpg

justinc.1089
07-16-2010, 11:07 AM
To those of you who like to use the Gadsden flag, its sadly pointless now.

It used to be a bad-a$$ flag, but its not now because it is associated with the tea party.

If people see that, they think you are pretty much a neo-conservative Bush lover now, not a libertarian. And most of the people flying Gadsden flags now don't have a clue what it once meant either. Most of the people flying them now would even support the wars lol.

Is that really what you want people to think you are for when they see your Gadsden flag?

Its meaningless now.

For now, at the moment, I think you guys will have to settle for stuff with words to directly say what you want people to understand.

someperson
07-16-2010, 11:10 AM
How's this for a flag ;)

http://img805.imageshack.us/img805/1668/smallparty.gif

Ok, so it's animating, but the first frame is all that's needed :)

Slutter McGee
07-16-2010, 11:11 AM
To those of you who like to use the Gadsden flag, its sadly pointless now.

It used to be a bad-a$$ flag, but its not now because it is associated with the tea party.

If people see that, they think you are pretty much a neo-conservative Bush lover now, not a libertarian. And most of the people flying Gadsden flags now don't have a clue what it once meant either. Most of the people flying them now would even support the wars lol.

Is that really what you want people to think you are for when they see your Gadsden flag?

Its meaningless now.

For now, at the moment, I think you guys will have to settle for stuff with words to directly say what you want people to understand.

You do realize that according to polls 50% of the teaparty movement support Dr. Paul. People don't think neo-conservative. They think extreme fiscal conservative. And that is part of libertarian thought.

But I am cool with a new flag. Something original. We are all students of history. I say lets create some new history, instead of borrowing from the old.

Sincerely,

Slutter McGee

someperson
07-16-2010, 11:27 AM
http://img192.imageshack.us/img192/5844/ideas.png

too much? ;)

TJefferson1776
07-16-2010, 12:05 PM
Get a flag with this on it
http://www.zazzle.com/libertarian_liberty_now_liberty_forever_poster-228060161648560978

LittleLightShining
07-16-2010, 12:12 PM
To those of you who like to use the Gadsden flag, its sadly pointless now.

It used to be a bad-a$$ flag, but its not now because it is associated with the tea party.

If people see that, they think you are pretty much a neo-conservative Bush lover now, not a libertarian. And most of the people flying Gadsden flags now don't have a clue what it once meant either. Most of the people flying them now would even support the wars lol.

Is that really what you want people to think you are for when they see your Gadsden flag?

Its meaningless now.

For now, at the moment, I think you guys will have to settle for stuff with words to directly say what you want people to understand.It's only meaningless if we give it up.

Ohhh, waa waa waa! Glenn Beck says the word "liberty" we can't use it anymore because people will think we're neo-cons.

Same shit during the tea parties. If more of you people would have stepped up and gotten involved with organizing or being a serious presence at these things from the start they would look a lot different than they do now. But no, so many were indignant about the theft of the rEVOLution's idea and GOP-undertones and teabag slurs that kept you from tapping into local people who if aren't all the way there they're on their WAY there.

But whatever... just let them steal everything from you and lament it forever. I won't have it.

LittleLightShining
07-16-2010, 12:18 PM
Well we might oughta to chuck "libertarian" too, while we're at it. That word has all kinds of implications and has been bandied about by too many FOX news watchers.

tremendoustie
07-16-2010, 12:24 PM
Eh, I cooked this up in like 5 minutes. Something simple like this.

http://img638.imageshack.us/img638/9945/liberty.gif


I don't like the dollar sign. It communicates the wrong thing IMO.

TheTyke
07-16-2010, 12:24 PM
Good lord. If we're just going to run away every time the neocons co-opt something, we're doomed. DOOMED!

Don't we have better things to do than worry about how the idiots on the left try to associate us with idiots on the right, when they wouldn't care WHAT flag we use—they're still going to say whatever the hell they can to discredit us anyway?

Face it folks: We're hated because we're right and they're wrong. Wear that like your badge of honor.

Hear, hear! We are winning, they are adopting our symbols, our rhetoric, our candidates, and even some of our ideology. I swear some people want to run at any sign of opposition, and others seem afraid of victory.

I will proudly fly my Gadsden flag for years to come! And if the Republicans take control of government... I'll continue flying it and letting people know what they're up to!

Brett
07-16-2010, 12:32 PM
Rather than the GOP taking over the libertarian logo, the libertarians should take over the GOP logo

http://photos-a-9.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-sf2p/v184/88/58/630840820/n630840820_911800_1473.jpg

Anti Federalist
07-16-2010, 12:39 PM
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_35kDzNt-gTQ/SoeU89gY0sI/AAAAAAAACTs/53y5jxkk2_M/s400/times_up_flag_z.jpg

lester1/2jr
07-16-2010, 12:41 PM
how about this


http://28.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_l4xspzhaze1qai0xlo1_250.gif

ronpaulhawaii
07-16-2010, 12:46 PM
Rather than the GOP taking over the libertarian logo, the libertarians should take over the GOP logo

http://photos-a-9.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-sf2p/v184/88/58/630840820/n630840820_911800_1473.jpg

That's retty cool

Mahkato
07-16-2010, 12:50 PM
Some possibilities here: http://www.zazzle.com/libertymaniacs/posters#products?rf=238630728040783772&CMPN=zBookmarklet

http://rlv.zcache.com/sons_of_liberty_poster-p228424876082627639td87_525.jpg
http://rlv.zcache.com/the_government_warning_poster-p228076763569607017td87_525.jpg
http://rlv.zcache.com/democracy_rules_panoramic_poster-p228437475730481857td2a_525.jpg

LittleLightShining
07-16-2010, 01:00 PM
Rather than the GOP taking over the libertarian logo, the libertarians should take over the GOP logo

http://photos-a-9.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-sf2p/v184/88/58/630840820/n630840820_911800_1473.jpg

I love this.

someperson
07-16-2010, 01:27 PM
I'll just add that I believe we would be far more effective in spreading our ideas if the imagery avoided invoking pavlovian reflex responses. Please consider this aspect, when creating a new flag. If I had to make a flag, it might be something like this:

http://img249.imageshack.us/img249/4664/newideas.png

Reason
07-16-2010, 01:30 PM
I'll just add that I believe we would be far more effective in spreading our ideas if the imagery avoided invoking pavlovian reflex responses. Please consider this aspect, when creating a new flag. If I had to make a flag, it might be something like this:

http://img249.imageshack.us/img249/4664/newideas.png

A little much for a small bumper sticker but might be cool to get a large text sticker made to cover the entire back window with that, would make a lot of people read it every single day in traffic.

Old Ducker
07-16-2010, 01:36 PM
Lets go with the flag that represents one of our most beautiful allies in the world today.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2010/2125051431_a59a14f167.jpg

Amen.

someperson
07-16-2010, 02:04 PM
A little much for a small bumper sticker but might be cool to get a large text sticker made to cover the entire back window with that, would make a lot of people read it every single day in traffic.
Thanks for looking at it, Reason! I'd love to see them try to co-opt a flag that directly spells out specific ideas. It might take them a bit longer ;) You're right that it's too wordy to be a bumper sticker, but how's this:

http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/4944/sticker.png

I'm not a graphics designer, of course; I hope someone else can take the idea and make the flag above and the bumper sticker look more appealing.

Reason
07-23-2010, 10:28 AM
http://www.gadsdenandculpeper.com/stickers.html

John Taylor
07-23-2010, 10:35 AM
What the hell is wrong with the Gadsden flag? It's been adopted and used by tea party folks who have adopted our free market, constitutionally limited government perspective. Now more than ever it is crucial for us to maintain the assocation with it.

John Taylor
07-23-2010, 10:38 AM
Well we might oughta to chuck "libertarian" too, while we're at it. That word has all kinds of implications and has been bandied about by too many FOX news watchers.

What? You mean the people who watch Judge Napolitano, Glenn Beck, and John Stossel? You're too pure even for the Mises Institute. Geeze.

Reason
07-23-2010, 10:38 AM
What the hell is wrong with the Gadsden flag? It's been adopted and used by tea party folks who have adopted our free market, constitutionally limited government perspective. Now more than ever it is crucial for us to maintain the assocation with it.

I can only look at so many pictures of idiotic neocon sheeple waving it around while they protest against mosques and vote for warmongers and still stomach to put it on my car.

It's no longer seems to be an effective tool for initiating open minded conversations due to the majority of the public now associating it with the flag for the "racist faux news watchers"...

John Taylor
07-23-2010, 10:40 AM
This flag is good for getting Tea-o-cons thinking

http://agora-dialogue.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/corporate_america_flag.jpg

What a bullshit flag.

John Taylor
07-23-2010, 10:43 AM
I can only look at so many pictures of idiotic neocon sheeple waving it around while they protest against mosques and vote for warmongers and still stomach to put it on my car.

It's no longer seems to be an effective tool for initiating open minded conversations due to the majority of the public now associating it with the flag for the "racist faux news watchers"...

Where has the Gadsden flag been used to protest a mosque? Vote for warmongers? SAAAAAY WHAT? We HAVEN'T HAD AN ELECTION SINCE THE FORMATION OF THE TEA PARTIES pal.

The "majority of the population" associate it with "racist faux news watchers" (whoever they supposedly are).

I call BULLSHIT on your entire second sentence. Utterly unsubstantiated by the facts. In any event, I don't know any "racist faux news watchers"... out of the hundreds of people I know who watch Judge Nap, Glenn Beck, and John Stossel.

Golding
07-23-2010, 10:52 AM
I can only look at so many pictures of idiotic neocon sheeple waving it around while they protest against mosques and vote for warmongers and still stomach to put it on my car.

It's no longer seems to be an effective tool for initiating open minded conversations due to the majority of the public now associating it with the flag for the "racist faux news watchers"...Meh. I find that people openly writing you off as something you're not opens the door for educating a misinformed public when you correct them. Often when I make a reasoned point that someone with a strictly bipolar view of politics, I find myself accused of getting my opinion from FOXNews. I invariably reply with the fact that I don't watch cable TV news of any sort, and that they've probably watched more FOXNews in the past year than I ever have in my life. Racism accusations (which are a much more venomous thing to accuse someone of) can be quelled by challenging the accuser with who factors race more into their opinions, plus a follow-up reminder that racism can go in any direction. Once they are disarmed of their catch-alls, they are forced to use their brains. It's rarely worked in their favor.

So I won't run away from the Gadsden flag quite yet. You're free to do so, of course. I just think that to claim it's "been effectively co-opted" is a little inaccurate. The uninformed are going to pre-judge you no matter what symbol you use. If you don't want to be pre-judged, don't use a symbol. Even then it probably won't work out the way you want it to.

John Taylor
07-23-2010, 10:56 AM
Meh. I find that people openly writing you off as something you're not opens the door for educating a misinformed public when you correct them. Often when I make a reasoned point that someone with a strictly bipolar view of politics, I find myself accused of getting my opinion from FOXNews. I invariably reply with the fact that I don't watch cable TV news of any sort, and that they've probably watched more FOXNews in the past year than I ever have. Once they are disarmed of their catch-all, they are forced to use their brains. It's rarely worked in their favor.

So I won't run away from the Gadsden flag quite yet. You're free to do so, of course. I just think that to claim it's "been effectively co-opted" is a little inaccurate. The uninformed are going to pre-judge you no matter what symbol you use. If you don't want to be pre-judged, don't use a symbol. Even then it probably won't work out the way you want it to.

Well said. The fact that millions of people are moving towards the political and practical positions the Gadsden flag represents is a thing to celebrate... in fact, we must engage to te maximal possible level to influence these new "converts" as it were, to continue their journey to a consistent position, one advocating individual liberty, the rule of law, the contitutional order of the founders, laizzes faire, and a non-interventionist foreign policy.

Andrew Ryan
07-23-2010, 11:11 AM
I like to fly this:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/80/Kaiserstandarte.svg/525px-Kaiserstandarte.svg.png

I like it

John Taylor
07-23-2010, 11:14 AM
I like it

So, you like to celebrate the 1870 Prussian militarist victory over the 2nd French Empire?

Precisely why should anyone who values individual liberty celebrate this?

WaltM
07-23-2010, 11:24 AM
LOL @ somalia (yes, I know you meant otherwise, still)

acptulsa
07-23-2010, 11:39 AM
I always did prefer the Bennington:

http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/images/u/us-1777a.gif

Of course, it's effectiveness is kind of contingent on more people knowing that we had a revolution in 1776 than know that the last El Dorado convertible was built in 1976. And, no, there's no guarantee of that...

Chieppa1
07-23-2010, 11:43 AM
Well said. The fact that millions of people are moving towards the political and practical positions the Gadsden flag represents is a thing to celebrate... in fact, we must engage to te maximal possible level to influence these new "converts" as it were, to continue their journey to a consistent position, one advocating individual liberty, the rule of law, the contitutional order of the founders, laizzes faire, and a non-interventionist foreign policy.

You honestly think the majority of people at Tea Party rallies actually follow our values? Did you march on Washington last year? I did. 80% McCain lovers. Booing the Dems. and cheering any speaker that randomly said "liberal". Who got the least amount of cheers? C4L.

Non-interventionists? Nope.
Constitutional order? Nope. They would back an Iran war in a second. If the Republicans called them "evil do'ers".
Their not moving anywhere. Their being HERDED somewhere. Its blind ignorance if you think all these people would vote for someone who wanted to end the Drug War, Foreign Wars, and bring personal responsibility back to this country.

I used to go to Tea Parties and have people listening. Now if I go I'm an outcast. Just like the Bush administration helped create blind Republican hate, Obama is doing the same thing.

Fox News covers this USDA thing all week. Try having a conversation with a "new convert" about the Wall Street Reform. You'll get their attention for 5 minutes. But talk about a black woman saying something "racist" and you'll get them waving flags and marching on ghetto. They are emotional driven. As always.

heavenlyboy34
07-23-2010, 11:46 AM
The Gadsden Flag Has Been Effectively Co-Opted, what to use instead?

Cry about it all you want, but you know it's true.

I can only look at so many pictures of idiotic neocon sheeple waving it around while they protest against mosques and vote for warmongers and still stomach to put it on my car.

It's no longer an effective tool for initiating open minded conversations.

So the question is...

What to replace it with?

I already have a C4L sticker and a "Turn off your TV, Think for yourself!" sticker.

Suggestions?

There's always the Confederate flag if you think the Gadsden flag is no good.:cool:

Wesker1982
07-23-2010, 12:13 PM
Good lord. If we're just going to run away every time the neocons co-opt something, we're doomed. DOOMED!

Don't we have better things to do than worry about how the idiots on the left try to associate us with idiots on the right, when they wouldn't care WHAT flag we use—they're still going to say whatever the hell they can to discredit us anyway?

Face it folks: We're hated because we're right and they're wrong. Wear that like your badge of honor.

Ron Paul 2012 is the best option imo. I don't think the neocons will adopt it.

My car:
http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/2484/0721101541a.jpg (http://img525.imageshack.us/i/0721101541a.jpg/)
http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/996/0721101541.jpg (http://img210.imageshack.us/i/0721101541.jpg/)

erowe1
07-23-2010, 12:33 PM
If you don't want to share a flag with those people, the Gladsden flag was never for you to begin with. You should have been hoisting the black flag all along.

BetaMale
07-23-2010, 01:20 PM
http://www.joebrower.com/PHILE_PILE/PIX/FLAGS/Come_and_Take_It-AR15.gif

Haha that's awesome! Love the adaptation!

Depressed Liberator
07-23-2010, 01:28 PM
If you don't want to share a flag with those people, the Gladsden flag was never for you to begin with. You should have been hoisting the black flag all along.

Maybe he doesn't want to share a flag with terrible people? I would never want to associate myself with those fools.

Wesker1982
07-23-2010, 02:04 PM
Those fools? So you obviously didn't back Ron Paul in the last presidential election, or now... considering he is one of the largest leaders of the tea party movement, and many of the tea partiers are Ron Paul backers...

Ge thee hence.

maybe the Tea Party of 2008?

I think theres a big difference between Tea Party 2008 and Tea Party now. Tea Party 08 = Ron Paul supporters, Tea Party now = Sarah Palin supporters. I could be mistaken, correct me if I am wrong, but it looks like the Tea Party has been hijacked by the neocons.

Can anyone link me to any video or article of the current Tea Party rallying against the Iraq and Afghanistan wars?

Galileo Galilei
07-23-2010, 02:34 PM
The Gadsden Flag Has Been Effectively Co-Opted, what to use instead?

Cry about it all you want, but you know it's true.

I can only look at so many pictures of idiotic neocon sheeple waving it around while they protest against mosques and vote for warmongers and still stomach to put it on my car.

It's no longer an effective tool for initiating open minded conversations.

So the question is...

What to replace it with?

I already have a C4L sticker and a "Turn off your TV, Think for yourself!" sticker.

Suggestions?

co-opted by what? The Gadsen purchase of 1853?

libertybrewcity
07-23-2010, 03:01 PM
What a bullshit flag.

why is this a bullshit flag?

http://agora-dialogue.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/corporate_america_flag.jpg

It is an excellent showing of how the corporatocracy has taken over the United States.

PBrady
07-23-2010, 03:07 PM
Surprised no one mentioned this one yet:

http://www.uscivilflags.org/images/flagstraight.jpg

I do like the corporatist flag, too.

PreDeadMan
07-23-2010, 03:44 PM
I personally don't give a crap about flags. It's like George Carlin said I leave symbols to the symbol minded.

John Taylor
07-23-2010, 03:52 PM
why is this a bullshit flag?

http://agora-dialogue.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/corporate_america_flag.jpg

It is an excellent showing of how the corporatocracy has taken over the United States.

The problem is that the government is infiltrated with those who use the government to transfer wealth from one group to another.

Your symbol only captures and opposes one small group of redistributive recipients.

Dr.3D
07-23-2010, 05:07 PM
Surprised no one mentioned this one yet:

http://www.uscivilflags.org/images/flagstraight.jpg

I do like the corporatist flag, too.

I guess, since that flag isn't really any kind of flag that was ever used, it could be used by the Teaparty. You see, that one is something someone made up and tried to sell, just to dupe people into thinking it has some special meaning.

http://home.myfairpoint.net/vzeo1z2a/CivilFlag.html

torchbearer
07-23-2010, 05:23 PM
the bonnie blue.

ClayTrainor
07-23-2010, 05:32 PM
I'm Rather fond of this symbol for Voluntaryism.

http://politicalconferences.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/Voluntaryism.gif

someperson
07-23-2010, 06:38 PM
Seriously, if one intends to create a new flag, don't make it about the design, the art, or vague abbreviations. Please write out specific positions on the flag. Ideas are more difficult to co-opt than symbols. Don't let it happen again.

james1906
07-23-2010, 07:07 PM
so....I'd like to get this thread back on track and let this flame war die out....

San Marino is the world's oldest republic, and despite its small size, it has been around since 301, has the world's oldest Constitution (since 1600), low unemployment, and a budget surplus.

The Jesus folks will like the country because it was founded on the building of a church!

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b1/Flag_of_San_Marino.svg

paulitics
07-23-2010, 07:44 PM
The only reason why the gadsen flag jumped the shark was because Beck decided to wear the shirt on air one day, and now the neocons in his audience think they should wear one cuz it was on da teevee. That is what happened in case anyone forgot.

WaltM
07-23-2010, 10:42 PM
wasn't there somebody that made a flag that looked like POW MIA, with Ron Paul on it?

MelissaCato
07-23-2010, 11:24 PM
The Gadsden Flag Has Been Effectively Co-Opted, what to use instead?

Cry about it all you want, but you know it's true.

I can only look at so many pictures of idiotic neocon sheeple waving it around while they protest against mosques and vote for warmongers and still stomach to put it on my car.

It's no longer an effective tool for initiating open minded conversations.

So the question is...

What to replace it with?

I already have a C4L sticker and a "Turn off your TV, Think for yourself!" sticker.

Suggestions?

:rolleyes:

Don't Tread on Me

HOLLYWOOD
07-23-2010, 11:39 PM
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a361/mzcmdr/SoloFlex025.jpg
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a361/mzcmdr/united-states-flag_1977_101470892.gif

Vessol
07-24-2010, 03:40 AM
I've never been a fan of visual representation of anything, especially flags. I know it ticks into the very center of human consciousness, maybe that's why I'm wary of it.

jdmyprez_deo_vindice
07-24-2010, 03:55 AM
Use the Franklin-Adams flag. http://www.crwflags.com/page0650us13franklinadams.html

This is also known as the Serapis Flag:

This is the flag used on board the captured British ship "Serapis" in 1779, Captain John Paul Jones. This ship was captured following the famous sea battle between the "Serapis" and the "Bonhomme Richard" in which the latter's flag staff was blown away; the British Captain asked if Jones had struck his colors; and Jones replied "Struck, Sir? I have not yet begun to fight!" The "Bonhomme Richard" was so badly damaged that it sank with its colors flying. After putting into the Dutch port of Texel for refitting, the British authorities in the Netherlands demanded Jones be arrested as a pirate since he flew no known flag. The Dutch replied that they would consult their archives. Sometime between then and a few days later when they replied to the British that they had evidence in their files that the flag used on the "Serapis" was a recognized flag and that Jones would be allowed to refit, a painting of this flag (and that of the Alliance) was made. Besides the unconventional use of blue stripes as well as white and red, if you examine the painting closely you will see there are 12 eight pointed stars and one seven pointed star on the flag. It is also nearly square.
Dave Martucci, 6 December 1997


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Franklin, Adams and the Serapis Flag
In a letter dated October 9, 1778, Benjamin Franklin and John Adams described this flag to the Ambassador of the King of the Two Sicilies. It is the flag later known as the "Serapis" flag. While Benjamin Franklin was the U.S. ambassador to Paris in 1777, John Paul Jones was creating so much havoc on the high seas with his raids on the British Merchant Marine and coastal villages that the Admiralty issued orders to have him hung as a pirate if he could be captured. The reason given for the order was a legalistic one -- he did not fly the flag of any recognized nation. While Ambassador Franklin pondered possible solutions to this problem, the Dutch Ambassador, acting for his government, asked for a description of the United States Flag. As far as Mr. Franklin knew, no national flag existed. Nevertheless, he gave his visitor a description of what we now call the "Franklin or Serapis Flag." This description was sent to the Dutch Fleet, along with the orders that it be recognized on the high seas. Shortly afterwards, the Ambassador of the two Sicily's came to call, making the same request. He also received a description of the flag, and forwarded similar orders to his country's fleet. Mr. Franklin, then apparently, had the flag made and sent to Jones so that it could be flown at his ships' masthead. By doing this, he could avoid being treated as a pirate by other countries. Thus the United States, through it's Navy, was first given official recognition by foreign countries. Meanwhile a ship from the United States was on its way to Paris with a notice that a "Resolve" of Congress of June 14, 1777, had adopted the now familiar "Stars and Stripes." No one knows who designed or made this flag for Mr. Franklin. The "Franklin Flag" that was given for foreign recognition before the first national flag was adopted was similar to the one we know today. Its colors are red, white and blue, and it had thirteen stripes and thirteen white eight-pointed stars on a blue background.

http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/images/u/us-serap.gif

malkusm
07-24-2010, 08:52 AM
wasn't there somebody that made a flag that looked like POW MIA, with Ron Paul on it?

http://gojosh.com/jch_1.jpg

WaltM
07-24-2010, 10:04 AM
http://gojosh.com/jch_1.jpg

where can you get this on a flag?

acptulsa
07-24-2010, 10:06 AM
where can you get this on a flag?

At your nearest sewing machine. It just isn't that hard to use one...

WaltM
07-24-2010, 10:09 AM
At your nearest sewing machine. It just isn't that hard to use one...

tshirt material is pretty thick and heavy, if I sewed it on a flag, or cut it into a flag, i'm afraid it won't fly

Arion45
07-24-2010, 12:03 PM
http://www.flagguys.com/img/h145.jpg

Arion45
07-24-2010, 12:07 PM
[/url]http://www.flagguys.com/img/h144.jpg

ronpaulhawaii
07-24-2010, 01:46 PM
OT discussion moved here - http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=254342