[VIDEOGAME] BioShock 1 & 2... *Awesome* Games Based on Ayn Rand & Objectivism

[Sentient Void]

You guys should play BioShock 1 & 2 (came out within the last few years, available on PC and XBOX 360). Not only AWESOME first person shooters with *great* graphics... the story is *awesome* and is *heavily* based on Ayn Rand and Objectivism, along with the art and architecture style being along the lines of what you'd imagine from her time.

Andrew Ryan (a play on the name Ayn Rand?) asically got sick of the statist, and religion based societies. He wanted to create a society, culture and city free from the state, religion and morality (I know it diverts from the Randian message a 'little' here). He successfully gets enough investment money to build a massive city under the ocean called 'Rapture' in the ideal of his vision of such a society. The society prospers and grows quickly and advances significantly in technology.

Some shit starts to hit the fan and he becomes a despot - and then shit *really* hits the fan, and the society and economy collapses. Rapture is in ruins, and everyone goes crazy and you have chaos. Your character's plane crashes into the ocean near this city, and you must survive and figure out what and why everything happened.

Voice-acting - top notch. Graphics - top notch. Story - top notch. Action with role-playing elements - top notch. Moral choices that affect story - check. Story twists - best in any videogame. Period.

I think you guys would love it!!!

YouTube - Bioshock Trailer (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lmw78t8NgIE&feature=related)

YouTube - Bioshock Launch Trailer (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CoYorK3E4aM&feature=related)

[0zzy]

Ayn Rand was not a big fan of religion so I think it probably doesn't divert too much ^_^.

[t0rnado]

The first Bioshock is one of the greatest games to ever exist.

[silus]

What about the second? (i'm about to order the first based on your testimony).

[Cdn_for_liberty]

What about the second? (i'm about to order the first based on your testimony).

I beat the game last week and it was just as good.

The story talks about the other side, which is about how collectivism is harmful.

[Sentient Void]

0zzy, I meant the 'morality' part, not the religion - I know she was against religion :)

Silus, as for the second one, it was also really good - though not quite as good as the first. It still has a lot of Randian and objectivist themes in it - but more as remnants of the city of Rapture. In the second game, it's some collectivist (the antithesis of Andrew Ryan / Ayn Rand) and the story is flipped on it's head showing the dangers of collectivism. I actually haven't finished the second one, yet...

But definitely pick it up.

I don't know the cheapest you can find it for... but you can get it for as cheap as 15 bucks including S+H if you get it from Glyde.com

http://glyde.com/#!viasearch/products/7956203/BioShock

Bioshock II for 26 bucks

http://glyde.com/#!viasearch/products/7971253/BioShock-2

On ebay it seems to be around 10-12 bucks +S+H

[ClayTrainor]

I played the first one, and it was awesome.

[silus]

Just ordered the first one. Thanks. 13 bucks w/shipping on Amazon via goHastings.

[Sentient Void]

Hell - I might buy the first one again to play through it with different eyes.

When I played this back in 2007, it was when I was politically apathetic and generally unaware of libertarian philosophy. I was introduced to Ron Paul and libertarianism in Jan 2008 by a stripper friend of mine... lol.

Might be a different experience this time around.

[ClayTrainor]

Hell - I might buy the first one again to play through it with different eyes.


I was kinda thinking the same thing. I think i played it before I knew who Ayn Rand, or even Ron Paul was.

[Vessol]

Andrew Ryan, while he fucked up a lot, is probably the most sympathetic character in the game. To those not of objectivist mind, he'd seem like a visionary who went overboard and got power hungry. He's not sinister like every other villain in the game.

[2young2vote]

The story is kind of hard to follow, but it shows a society that is supposedly modeled after Galts Gulch. It shows it in ruins. There are two main "antagonists". Andrew Ryan who is the individualist who started the underwater city, and Fontaine who is the collectivist who is trying to take over.

I thought they did a poor job of actually demonstrating why a society like Galts Gulch may be impossible. Irrational basically plopped us into the world and let the beautiful scenery do the talking, but that wasn't enough to prove anything or get a point across.

I'm not playing the second one. It didn't have a reason for being made like the first one was - it was just a cash in on the name.

[BenIsForRon]

I still have System Shock 2 on my hard drive, waiting to be played.

I heard that game had some pretty deep themes as well.

[Vessol]

I still have System Shock 2 on my hard drive, waiting to be played.

I heard that game had some pretty deep themes as well.

Better gameplay too. Bioshock had good visuals and good story, boring gameplay.

[Andrew Ryan]

Andrew Ryan ftw!

[sevin]

I've never really played this kind of game. Is it very hard to learn (lots of controls, weapons, gear, etc.)? I've only really played games like Mario Brothers, Guitar Hero and Simpsons Hit & Run.

[Kludge]

The first Bioshock was fantastic -- great story and I was genuinely terrified a few times by suspense (esp. on Cohen's level). The gameplay was fresh & combat innovative for its time. Voice acting was incredible and the devs gave the characters fascinating depth.

The second lacked suspense, the story was dull & somewhat cheesy, the characters were "vague," and the gameplay/graphics were recycled (seemed far easier -- even its hardest mode was easy) with just a few interesting changes, such as being able to cart Little Sisters around to collect ADAM. Coincidentally, I ended up playing B2 last night when I couldn't sleep -- worth playing, but I wouldn't pay for it. Unfortunately, B2 ended up being mostly about scouting around collecting items while looking at the scenery & listening to a fantastic selection of music.


The best way I can imagine to compare is to say it'd be like buying Napoleon:Total War after you already bought Empire:Total War.

[jmdrake]

Not a libertarian and haven't played the game though I am familiar with it from reading reviews and walkthroughs. I'm confused as to why libertarians would like the game. It didn't exactly show Andrew Ryan's society as being in anyway "successful" long term. What am I missing?

[Xenophage]

The game seems to be more critical of Rand and libertarianism than for it. Am I wrong? I played through the first couple of boss fights in the first game and lost interest. I didn't like the gameplay much, and the story was rubbing me the wrong way.

[Kludge]

The story is critical of immoral people attempting to form a moral society more than anything, though the barbs at a potential free society are amusing. The basis of the plot is irrelevant to the game -- I can't imagine people actually have their opinions on a system of government swayed by the setting in a video game.

The second does a reversal and shows what could happen if a collectivist religion-abusing psychologist rose to power in the same society, declaring the "self" a tyrant and demanding everyone form into a Family for the Common Good.

[Sentient Void]

Kludge has it all spot on.

Another thing I would add, is that Andrew Ryan, being an immoral person and essentially being a 'benevolent dictator' at the outset (he founded and estalished the freedoms of Rapture, but maintained power), had the power that corrupted him which resulted in him forcing his will over the people of Rapture when a problem arose. He was corrupted by power, despite initial his intentions and became a paranoid, fear-driven despot and essentially jailed everyone in the city.

I don't know if it was the intention of the developers to show that it was the desire and corruption of power that led to Rapture's ugly demise (it was actually a *very* successful society in a number of ways for a while, actually), but regardless I feel it's worth noting.

Oh, and yeah - BioShock 2, was definitely not anywhere near as compelling as the first... but I still enjoyed it (again I didn't finish it, though). I particularly loved the interactive-art-alleyway for children in BioShock II though that HEAVILY criticized 'the parasite' (the state).

[Rael]

I have been playing Bioshock the last few weeks. I can't tell if the people who wrote the story are making fun of Objectivism or not. I like the game though.

[Sentient Void]

I don't think they are friendly to objectivism in the game.

[Endgame]

This game was intended as a satire of Ayn Rand more than anything. Insane mutant libertarians screaming "Leave me alone just leave me alone!" while coming at you with lead pipes. There is plenty about her and her books to satirize, but really I think the world could use a lot more Ayn Rand these days.

Oh and the first game was quite good. I can't speak for any after that.

[Rothbardian Girl]

When I played this back in 2007, it was when I was politically apathetic and generally unaware of libertarian philosophy. I was introduced to Ron Paul and libertarianism in Jan 2008 by a stripper friend of mine... lol.


Best conversion story ever? ;)
I've played the first game and it didn't really stand out to me. I stopped playing it when I got bored with it.

[RonPaulwillWin]

Maybe this will tie me over until Battlefield 3 comes out...

[Warrior_of_Freedom]

The first Bioshock will always be the best. I didn't think they would make a sequel, but money talks.

[Wesker1982]

Maybe this will tie me over until Battlefield 3 comes out...

This and Skyrim.

Anyone PC game here? PC> ALL :D

[A. Havnes]

Is is really that good?

http://www.somethingawful.com/d/game-reviews/bioshock-review.php
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/social/Josh_Weinberg/ron-paul-fringe-candidate-shaping-2012-race_n_926947_103178110.html

[Invi]

Ew. Ew, xbox. Ew, PC. Ew, shooter.
WTB 3rd person RPG version for ps3, kk? :D

It sounds interesting, but I absolutely hate FPS games.
Also, xbox controllers. And PC game controls tend to annoy me. :c

[LibertyRevolution]

I played them back to back about a month ago.

Bioshock 1 is a must play game.
Bioshock 2 .. It was ok, its worth playing.

To me it was not as good as the first, which is common with sequels.

Crysis 1 = awesome
Crysis 2 = They took everything good that was crysis and removed it to make it play on consoles...

FarCry 1 = awesome
FarCry 2 = I should just punch my self in the nuts and call it fun, it be better than spending 40 hours playing this POS.

Bioshock 1 = awesome, a totally new cool world of crazy to explore!
Bioshock 2 = dammit, I really didn't want to play this game from the other team...

and so on.

[Xenophage]

I felt BioShock was a game that *could* have been great, but far from it: It was cartoonish and naive in nearly every respect, most notably in the way it attempted to handle the philosophy and ethical situations.

The creator of the game is a self-described 'libertarian,' but I got the sense that he was more of a "me too" libertarian than anything.

To further compound my disappointment with the narrative, the gameplay itself sucked. Combat was boring and the controls were sluggish.

But hey, it had nice graphics...

[Verrater]

I played them back to back about a month ago.

Bioshock 1 is a must play game.
Bioshock 2 .. It was ok, its worth playing.

To me it was not as good as the first, which is common with sequels.

Crysis 1 = awesome
Crysis 2 = They took everything good that was crysis and removed it to make it play on consoles...

FarCry 1 = awesome
FarCry 2 = I should just punch my self in the nuts and call it fun, it be better than spending 40 hours playing this POS.

Bioshock 1 = awesome, a totally new cool world of crazy to explore!
Bioshock 2 = dammit, I really didn't want to play this game from the other team...

and so on.

This.

[josh b]

The creator of the game is a self-described 'libertarian,' but I got the sense that he was more of a "me too" libertarian than anything.


There was an interview somewhere in which the creator described his libertarianism as a 'buffet' where he could 'pick and choose' different aspects. He also railed alot against 'extremism'.


This and Skyrim.

Anyone PC game here? PC> ALL :D

Steam account: Wesker1982

Skyrim FTW. Normally I play on a 360 but I use my laptop for Elder Scrolls.

[cthulhufan]

You know, I should pick up the first one and try it again. I played it when it came out and got turned off by the respawn tubes and put it on the shelf. It eroded the sense of dread for me (I love horror / scary stuff). I was thinking about that recently and came to the conclusion that I can simply choose *not to use the respawn* feature and solve my own problem :)

[Xenophage]

There was an interview somewhere in which the creator described his libertarianism as a 'buffet' where he could 'pick and choose' different aspects. He also railed alot against 'extremism'.



Skyrim FTW. Normally I play on a 360 but I use my laptop for Elder Scrolls.

Totally looking forward to Skyrim. I was hoping to upgrade my PC before then, but I doubt I'll have the cash. Shouldn't complain... my system isn't really too bad. Probably mid-range by today's standards, and if it looks as good on an XBOX 360 as the previews then it'll still look even better on my PC, which is pretty damn good.

[Xenophage]

You know, I should pick up the first one and try it again. I played it when it came out and got turned off by the respawn tubes and put it on the shelf. It eroded the sense of dread for me (I love horror / scary stuff). I was thinking about that recently and came to the conclusion that I can simply choose *not to use the respawn* feature and solve my own problem :)

Power corrupts, and I can't resist using cheats once I know them. Would be even more impossible not to use a featured gameplay mechanic! Good luck!

[Kludge]

You know, I should pick up the first one and try it again. I played it when it came out and got turned off by the respawn tubes and put it on the shelf. It eroded the sense of dread for me (I love horror / scary stuff). I was thinking about that recently and came to the conclusion that I can simply choose *not to use the respawn* feature and solve my own problem :)
If you want a sense of dread, try playing Amnesia: The Dark Descent for PC if you haven't already. It does survival horror perfectly. It's very Lovecraft-inspired.

[cthulhufan]

Yep, there is no way I'll make it through it Iron Man style; I just don't have that much free time. I can, however, choose to only save at certain spots and use that as an incentive to not barrel down random hallways with guns blazing :)

[cthulhufan]

If you want a sense of dread, try playing Amnesia: The Dark Descent for PC if you haven't already. It does survival horror perfectly. It's very Lovecraft-inspired.

I'm right there with ya. Amnesia is a masterpiece. You think doom is scary? In amnesia, you get a damned match and some bandages; there are no weapons that can level the playing field. One rule: Survive.

Great game....

[Rael]

You know, I should pick up the first one and try it again. I played it when it came out and got turned off by the respawn tubes and put it on the shelf. It eroded the sense of dread for me (I love horror / scary stuff). I was thinking about that recently and came to the conclusion that I can simply choose *not to use the respawn* feature and solve my own problem :)

This has happened to me alot. I run out of ammo and first aid packs so I have no choice but to beat things up with the pipe wrench and keep coming back in the tubes until everything is dead.

[BW2112]

At first I didn't like the game because I felt it was bashing free market ideas and pretty much saying this is the kind of world you'll have if you go with this ideology. But I learned to put that aside and enjoy the game.

This might be kind of a spoiler, but Andrew Ryan I think kinda redeems himself in the end. You'll have to play to see, or watch a youtube video about it.

[BW2112]

The first Bioshock will always be the best. I didn't think they would make a sequel, but money talks.

Bioshock Infinite should be coming out next year. It takes place in the sky instead of underwater.

http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3-2011-bioshock-infinite/717144

This one looks like it will be much better than bioshock 2 at the very least. Im just wondering what ideology they're going after in this one.

[Kludge]

Bioshock Infinite should be coming out next year. It takes place in the sky instead of underwater.

http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3-2011-bioshock-infinite/717144

This one looks like it will be much better than bioshock 2 at the very least. Im just wondering what ideology they're going after in this one.
Looks like it takes on collectivism at two fronts - American Nationalism and a type of entitlement-minded Red people.

[LibertyRevolution]

This has happened to me alot. I run out of ammo and first aid packs so I have no choice but to beat things up with the pipe wrench and keep coming back in the tubes until everything is dead.

I never used the tubes in either game. If I died, then I load last saved game.

[Endgame]

There was an interview somewhere in which the creator described his libertarianism as a 'buffet' where he could 'pick and choose' different aspects. He also railed alot against 'extremism'.



Skyrim FTW. Normally I play on a 360 but I use my laptop for Elder Scrolls.

Elder Scrolls games aren't even playable without two dozen mods running that cause them to crash every 15 minutes. Their designers are Asperger's cases who just let their fans do all the work.

[Sentient Void]

Bioshock Infinite should be coming out next year. It takes place in the sky instead of underwater.

http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3-2011-bioshock-infinite/717144

This one looks like it will be much better than bioshock 2 at the very least. Im just wondering what ideology they're going after in this one.

Yeah, this one does look really awesome. The previews, graphics, gameplay, story, etc, looks awesome.

IIRC this one does go after Nationalism (american nationalism in particular) and a radicalized form of US Constitution 'fetishism' and 'worship' of the founding fathers.

Basically one giant attack on the nebulous concept of the 'tea party'.

[BW2112]

Yeah, this one does look really awesome. The previews, graphics, gameplay, story, etc, looks awesome.

IIRC this one does go after Nationalism (american nationalism in particular) and a radicalized form of US Constitution 'fetishism' and 'worship' of the founding fathers.

Basically one giant attack on the nebulous concept of the 'tea party'.


I just hope they won't be attacking Ron Paul in any way. They misunderstood Ayn Rand so it might be possible. If the antagonist of the game's name is something like Paul Ronaldson or whatever, I don't think I'll be getting it.

[Diurdi]

Yeah, this one does look really awesome. The previews, graphics, gameplay, story, etc, looks awesome.

IIRC this one does go after Nationalism (american nationalism in particular) and a radicalized form of US Constitution 'fetishism' and 'worship' of the founding fathers.

Basically one giant attack on the nebulous concept of the 'tea party'. Yeah. Altough I don't know how the game will end, it seems like the bad faction is "the founders" - theocrats and nationalists. The protagonist is a former "pinkerton" agent as well, you know the union busters.

http://plaza.fi/s/f/editor/images/X-20110812165627234.jpg

[josh b]

Yeah, this one does look really awesome. The previews, graphics, gameplay, story, etc, looks awesome.

IIRC this one does go after Nationalism (american nationalism in particular) and a radicalized form of US Constitution 'fetishism' and 'worship' of the founding fathers.

Basically one giant attack on the nebulous concept of the 'tea party'.

When I saw the first preview for Infinite I thought they were taking the series in a stupid direction. Maybe I should give it another chance, it actually looks pretty cool now.

What's their justification for telekinesis and other superpowers in this one?


I just hope they won't be attacking Ron Paul in any way. They misunderstood Ayn Rand so it might be possible. If the antagonist of the game's name is something like Paul Ronaldson or whatever, I don't think I'll be getting it.

I doubt it. Paul's too nice to make a believable villain. They would probably go after someone like Glenn Beck or Sarah Palin.

[The Dude]

I think there's a Bolshevik sort of rebel faction as well in Infinite who show a pretty evil side if I'm not mistaken.

Just for the record: Elder Scrolls >>>>>> Bioshock. Two great games though.