What's the difference between Ayn Rand's Objectivism and libertarianism?

[Matt Collins]

What is the difference between Ayn Rand's Objectivism and libertarianism?

QUESTION: What is the difference between Ayn Rand's Objectivism and libertarianism?

MY SHORT ANSWER: In my opinion, the differences are more cultural than real, in political matters. Both Objectivism and libertarianism are based on the non-aggression principle of honoring our neighbors' choice (not initiating physical force, fraud or theft) and making things right with our victims if we don't.

Objectivism is a comprehensive philosophy of life that includes not just political beliefs but strong and unified beliefs on virtually every aspect of human existence, including religion, art, romance, and so on. Libertarianism, in contrast, is a strictly political philosophy.

Rand believed that government's proper role was protection of rights and that government should have a monopoly on defensive force to fulfill this role. Many libertarians agree with her. Others believe that governments are a poor protector of rights and that competition in this realm is right and proper.

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Ironically, although Ayn Rand publicly disavowed libertarianism, she is unquestionably one of the most influential figures in the modern libertarian movement. And her political views are libertarian, by any common definition of the term.

Here are two short articles that explore this seeming contradiction. Please note, this is a subject about which many people disagree.

* "What Is the Objectivist View of Libertarianism?" an essay (http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?et=1103553592346&s=57420&e=001iTBIXHOwylc22NgCuiP0N8q4nonGQfv20qZv7nPdmnsAX EqW4ojdfT2a_7yX_ML8b7-uDG5J0I0M2has6D03tUpnyFCuQTNYLlq_uzxrz_hdPduUVVn_l A2PnMU1l2bgiRf-yNvb2aN_yJlc0JHnCKIfSzsU-lBFwsjrD-_fP9jCwfDfbi7QmUqH1Y2YN18gjPyDaZ-V4xM=) by David Kelley and William R Thomas. David Kelley is Founder and Executive Director of the Atlas Society, which promotes Objectivism. Excerpt: "If we exclude anarchism [that is, the kind of non-government libertarianism advocated by Murray N. Rothbard, David F. Friedman, and others, sometimes known as 'anarcho-capitalism' or 'market anarchism'], we can say that libertarianism is the Objectivist position in politics. But Objectivism includes more than politics. It is a systematic philosophy that also includes a specific view of reality, human nature, and the nature of knowledge. It includes a specific code of morality based on the requirements of life in this world. The Objectivist commitment to individual rights and a ban on the initiation of force is grounded in its view of nature, knowledge, and values. Its political conclusions thus stand on a firm and quite specific foundation ...Philosophically, some libertarians are Objectivists, or would at least agree with the core elements in the Objectivist case for liberty, such as the individual's need to act by means of reason in pursuing his life and happiness as ultimate values."

* "Objectivism and Libertarianism" by Nathaniel Branden. In this very short 1999 article (http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?et=1103553592346&s=57420&e=001iTBIXHOwyldYJmCEeskQejnby9hOtmoUd3mgU_CHvYPjQ oHB7oRjYlmnCy8SaDCiQ5cwNtB0q03bfaGhT4aDW4SHC23unLa ATsNpI9vTFCTDS3yiGC51l5x1mFjKziioFgz-waqxMvqFKnQJ229nbsdge6BRRV7VLavUEveEOH6Jd9H5TnuPag vCKZUbnMUugfu8UMuF7EE=) Branden, at one time one of Rand's closest and most controversial associates, tells how Rand considered, and rejected, the label libertarian -- and what that means in today's political world. Excerpt: "[T]oday libertarianism is part of our language and is commonly understood to mean the advocacy of minimal government. Ayn Rand is commonly referred to as 'a libertarian philosopher.' Folks, we are all libertarians now. Might as well get used to it."

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Dr. Ruwart's outstanding books Healing Our World (http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?et=1103553592346&s=57420&e=001iTBIXHOwylesVZXrMb0l-Tj0_UJRq6Aw4eTX3YIhe01aYFGd4SsvJq9U5iJcDAacymeTv3-5fMvdqlx0F2JxsbCnCA3wgmou51g0JyFAXj1Z3EhoTTYMjVR-_noy0Gre4RznPfoNQMXh0oXQBrXd_KPGfRXTX20u2ZoNyzI8zz tB6TLnINJn_7_LgbuM4vzrTHzREbVolKY=) and Short Answers to the Tough Questions (http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?et=1103553592346&s=57420&e=001iTBIXHOwylfZqPBwiFkAFuKnJe-XtO_skNicOvrKwoNnf0X2oYrAmDfgfnVH7BTHNfzS-5QleQkYGkkcB1EYBXlSZBkytCqpM76Ur_NcSk_FbG9ScUH29iD HfGxQRtQ1JngGvWIOthi4IAJxfFKEhS6nnUhfYiDr0zLYrVoxn DMEni3gJm-f9Yjj69hnFPCO) are available from the Advocates.

[libertybrewcity]

bump, im reading Atlas Shrugged so this is really interesting. thanks for the post.

[Vessol]

I recently bought and am reading Atlas Shrugged as well.

I have to admit..it's very plodding and the pacing is way off. I've also yet to really read anything revolutionary or mind-changing. I hate to say it, but it basically so far seems just like one big parody of Statism, a few chuckles is all that it has given me as of yet.

[low preference guy]

it basically so far seems just like one big parody of Statism, a few chuckles is all that it has given me as of yet.

That's basically it, and if you are not an altruist and already believe that your happiness is a moral end in itself, then all you'll get is a portrayal of how statism collapses.

[emazur]

I'm a big Rand fan but am no expert on Objectivism but have noticed there are "hard" Objectivists (Ayn Rand Center types) center and there are "soft" Objectivists, the main difference that I've noticed is the difference in foreign policy. People like Peikoff and Yaron Brook absolutely hate Muslims and are for an interventionist foreign policy minus the nation building. Check out O'Reilly's interview with Peikoff and you'll facepalm. This is an area where I feel Rand failed to live up to her own philosophy as it treated people as a collective and was willing to deal with them as such. Interestingly, the hard Objectivists are pro-open boarders despite the obvious vulnerability to terrorists.

Of course libertarianism isn't one size fits all itself. Check out Harry Browne's interview with Eric Dondero. Dondero seems to agree with the majority of what Browne says but goes absolutely apeshit on the topic of foreign policy. If you facepalmed during O'Reilly / Peikoff, you'll double facepalm here and be afraid to let go for at least a minute.

[RCA]

I'm a big Rand fan but am no expert on Objectivism but have noticed there are "hard" Objectivists (Ayn Rand Center types) center and there are "soft" Objectivists, the main difference that I've noticed is the difference in foreign policy. People like Peikoff and Yaron Brook absolutely hate Muslims and are for an interventionist foreign policy minus the nation building. Check out O'Reilly's interview with Peikoff and you'll facepalm. This is an area where I feel Rand failed to live up to her own philosophy as it treated people as a collective and was willing to deal with them as such. Interestingly, the hard Objectivists are pro-open boarders despite the obvious vulnerability to terrorists.

Of course libertarianism isn't one size fits all itself. Check out Harry Browne's interview with Eric Dondero. Dondero seems to agree with the majority of what Browne says but goes absolutely apeshit on the topic of foreign policy. If you facepalmed during O'Reilly / Peikoff, you'll double facepalm here and be afraid to let go for at least a minute.

wtf!?!?

YouTube - Leonard Peikoff Interview (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JoAWCwm-UXw)

[Sentient Void]

Peikoff is a fucking tool.

[TroySmith]

Ayn Rand herself wasn't an interventionist. The clip often brought up about her willingness to use force (in Iran I believe) was due to property rights. She believed that since America was the one who created the ability for them to use the oil, and since they had no idea what to do with it, it was American property. When it was nationalized, she argued, it was in fact stolen from it's rightful owners, the US. It's a Lockean style argument.

The same cannot probably be said for Yaron Brook or Peikoff.

[low preference guy]

Peikoff fun:

What do you think of the plan for a mosque in New York City near Ground Zero? Isn’t it private property and therefore protected by individual rights?

Peikoff answers (http://www.peikoff.com/2010/06/28/what-do-you-think-of-the-plan-for-a-mosque-in-new-york-city-near-ground-zero-isnt-it-private-property-and-therefore-protected-by-individual-rights/).

[QueenB4Liberty]

Wow. I started reading Peikoff's book. I liked what I read in it, but after watching that interview he's crazy. I used to be more into Ayn Rand but if true Objectivists seem a bit ridiculous to me. I still might finish his book sometime though. It was a few years ago at least.

[BetaMale]

've also yet to really read anything revolutionary or mind-changing. I hate to say it, but it basically so far seems just like one big parody of Statism, a few chuckles is all that it has given me as of yet.

It really takes awhile for the payoff, but working your way there is definitely worth it. Rand does a great job of articulating what a society hell bent on socialism thrust into high gear would look like.

I don't want to ruin anything, but it makes me yearn to live in a truly free society, where there are no statists to be found.

[Andrew-Austin]

I recently bought and am reading Atlas Shrugged as well.

I have to admit..it's very plodding and the pacing is way off. I've also yet to really read anything revolutionary or mind-changing. I hate to say it, but it basically so far seems just like one big parody of Statism, a few chuckles is all that it has given me as of yet.

For me I think it was the first 300 or so pages that were slow. It gets better.

I wasn't a libertarian when I first read it so it was pretty "woah - mind changing" to me. If you are already libertarian then it might not be that dramatic philosophically.

[heavenlyboy34]

Murray's Mozart Was a Red (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5404826610265339909#) does a good job describing Objectivism and classical Objectivists. ;) lolz

[low preference guy]

Murray's Mozart Was a Red (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5404826610265339909#) does a good job describing Objectivism and classical Objectivists. ;) lolz

part in bold is false.