Just watched Aaron Russo's "Freedom To Facism"

[Pedro TT]

After watching that amazing film, I am awestruck. I feel like Neo in the Matrix after he has taken the red pill.....its...its almost surreal. I cannot believe what has become of our nation. I mean, I knew is was fucked up but not THAT fucked up. It has shown me that the events of the last 90 years have brought us to the brink of a new world order and that I must do EVERYTHING in my power to stop it.

The Ron Paul movement has taken on an entirely new meaning for me as of today. It is a fight for my future...a fight for my freedom. I know now that if things dont change soon, I will more than likely die not a free man but rather a slave.

For those of you who have not seen this film, I suggest you do as soon as possible. Consider it as your choice...do you want to take the Blue pill or the Red pill? :eek:

[rice_classic]

I don't remember any reference to a "Green" pill in the Matrix.

Interesting, though, that in the Matrix they used the colors Blue and Red for the pills... Almost like choosing a party.

The problem I have is with movies like this is that if the "powers that be" have done this for 90+ years (try thousands of years) what makes anyone think any "one" man can change it. Obviously we have to start somewhere but I think the degree in which ignorance has prevailed and corruption has perpetrated our Government it will take an uprising.

Corruption and Greed are like a virus and will fight, manipulate, and evolve in order to survive. Before this virus is defeated, there will be marching, there will be tragedy and suffering but if those who stand for progress and truth stand strong and united they will show the lost, the ignorant and the deceived masses that there is a war worth fighting, there is an ideal worth rescuing and that a country that suffers from oppression, corruption and a perversion of freedom; the country that is in most need of their saving, is their own.

[LBT]

Here's the link to the google video of Freedom to Fascism....
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1656880303867390173

For those who have been hypnotized by establishment media it is a big wake up call.

[Man from La Mancha]

I have not watched it yet but have been heavy into all the stuff it talks about for over 10 yr. I probably know everything and more of what the movie has. Is it still worth watching.?

.

[Pedro TT]

I don't remember any reference to a "Green" pill in the Matrix.

Interesting, though, that in the Matrix they used the colors Blue and Red for the pills... Almost like choosing a party.

The problem I have is with movies like this is that if the "powers that be" have done this for 90+ years (try thousands of years) what makes anyone think any "one" man can change it. Obviously we have to start somewhere but I think the degree in which ignorance has prevailed and corruption has perpetrated our Government it will take an uprising.

Corruption and Greed are like a virus and will fight, manipulate, and evolve in order to survive. Before this virus is defeated, there will be marching, there will be tragedy and suffering but if those who stand for progress and truth stand strong and united they will show the lost, the ignorant and the deceived masses that there is a war worth fighting, there is an ideal worth rescuing and that a country that suffers from oppression, corruption and a perversion of freedom; the country that is in most need of their saving, is their own.

*Post edited for accuracy*

You are right rice. In the film they show how in Iowa, there was proof of the voting machines being "hacked" and how the election results were obviously rigged (as shown by the exit polls conducted). This fight will not be pretty. The RP Revolution is a start but I am starting to think that maybe it might not be quite enough unless we get the message out to ALL the masses.

[Pedro TT]

I have not watched it yet but have been heavy into all the stuff it talks about for over 10 yr. I probably know everything and more of what the movie has. Is it still worth watching.?

.

Absolutely.

Here is the direct link:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1656880303867390173&q=freedom+to+fascism&total=1242&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0

[libertarianguy]

test

[Perry]

After watching that amazing film, I am awestruck. I feel like Neo in the Matrix after he has taken the red pill.....its...its almost surreal. I cannot believe what has become of our nation. I mean, I knew is was fucked up but not THAT fucked up. It has shown me that the events of the last 90 years have brought us to the brink of a new world order and that I must do EVERYTHING in my power to stop it.

The Ron Paul movement has taken on an entirely new meaning for me as of today. It is a fight for my future...a fight for my freedom. I know now that if things dont change soon, I will more than likely die not a free man but rather a slave.

For those of you who have not seen this film, I suggest you do as soon as possible. Consider it as your choice...do you want to take the Blue pill or the Red pill? :eek:

Why oh why didn't you take the blue pill!?

[r3volution]

this movie is bs

explain why it is BS or don't make the comment .....

[V4Vendetta]

this movie is bs

lol, explain.

[libertarianguy]

test

[randolphus maximus]

bankers do not control the world, and it is pointless to argue there is no income tax liability. The government determains your liability, that's all you need to know

I don't think that is true. We file our tax returns under penalty of perjury, which would mean that we determine what our liability is...then the government tells us where we are wrong

[V4Vendetta]

bankers do not control the world, and it is pointless to argue there is no income tax liability. The government determains your liability, that's all you need to know

Hmm,

I wonder how our government was funded before 1913, before the irs or income tax. How did they build Washington dc?

hmmm

I thought Ronald Regan's Grace commission found out that ALL the money from the income tax was going to pay the Federal Reserve interest on the money they print?

I wonder why our founding fathers warned us of such a thing.

Andrew Jackson almost got killed for doing away with a central bank when he was president

JFK was doing it, and he was shot a little bit later

Matter of fact Ronald Regan was going to abolish the Federal Reserve also, until someone got ahold of him.

IF EVIL bankers don't control the world, how do you explain the fact that the Rothchild family controls 99% of the worlds, Country's money supply? IMF, comes to mind.

Its not fake, the Rothchild Family does own 99% of the worlds money.

Napoleon had to go to them to help him wage war. (Documented FACT)

Why don't you do some research there buddy

[Man from La Mancha]

bankers do not control the world, and it is pointless to argue there is no income tax liability. The government determains your liability, that's all you need to know


He's right it is the reptilian shape shifters that are controlling the world and they demand their do so don't question it:D

.

[libertarianguy]

test

[Pete]

yes... and the federal reserve returns the interest to the treasury
I've heard this before, but have a little trouble understanding how it is done. I don't believe the Fed rebates the interest, else it would be shown as income in the budget. It appears that the money is simply made available to borrow again.

Comments, anyone?

[Man from La Mancha]

If the fed was eliminated would most our national dept be gone?

.

[V4Vendetta]

yes... and the federal reserve returns the interest to the treasury

Bullshit, Prove it

What about the rest of everything I said?

Why should the Federal Reserve even exist. The congress, as per the constitution, should be coining money and setting the value thereof. WITHOUT INTEREST AND WITHOUT INFLATION

[libertarianguy]

test

[RP08]

Why pray tell would a private bank forfeit their interest profit to the American treasury?

[Original_Intent]

Hmm,

I wonder how our government was funded before 1913, before the irs or income tax. How did they build Washington dc?

hmmm

I thought Ronald Regan's Grace commission found out that ALL the money from the income tax was going to pay the Federal Reserve interest on the money they print?

I wonder why our founding fathers warned us of such a thing.

Andrew Jackson almost got killed for doing away with a central bank when he was president

JFK was doing it, and he was shot a little bit later

Matter of fact Ronald Regan was going to abolish the Federal Reserve also, until someone got ahold of him.

IF EVIL bankers don't control the world, how do you explain the fact that the Rothchild family controls 99% of the worlds, Country's money supply? IMF, comes to mind.

Its not fake, the Rothchild Family does own 99% of the worlds money.

Napoleon had to go to them to help him wage war. (Documented FACT)

Why don't you do some research there buddy

I read that income tax does more than "pay interest on the debt".

It covers interest, and keeps SS and madicare/medicaid solvent. Because of the SS fund being "borrowed from" in the past, currently SS contributions are not enough to fund it, the funds that should have been there are gone, and income tax subsidizes SS contributions to keep SS and medicare payments going out.


All other spending = more debt.

[libertarianguy]

test

[libertarianguy]

test

[lost_in_samoa]

..

[libertarianguy]

test

[lost_in_samoa]

..

[libertarianguy]

test

[nullvalu]

it spends much time complaining that bankers control the world and that we aren't liable for income tax, which are causes false and, in the case of the latter, pointless

there are much more useful and honest videos around

and which videos would you suggest? just wondering.. is "Sicko" in your top 10?

[libertarianguy]

test

[nullvalu]

sicko is garbage

so, pray tell, could i have the lojpre top 3?

[libertarianguy]

test

[nullvalu]

thanks i'll check em out

[lost_in_samoa]

..

[libertarianguy]

test

[lisajames96]

I've seen it, it was pretty good to me. I had previously been introduced to the notion of the destructive workings of the FED and FRBanking when I read John Pugsely's book "The Alpha Stategy". The first few chapters of that book explain alot of what is talked about in the movie and makes it understandable. Then you really see the horror of it all.
It was like a 1,2,3 step for me. I read the book, then later found the AFTF movie, then found out about Ron Paul...

[Electric Church]

The Money Masters
http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid=-515319560256183936

gives strong detailed and historical support to AFTF

[lost_in_samoa]

..

[libertarianguy]

test

[libertarianguy]

test

[Pedro TT]

The Money Masters
http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid=-515319560256183936

gives strong detailed and historical support to AFTF

I started watching that last night and got about an hour into it. I'm going to finish it up tonight. Its scary to think that the history of the world for the last 1000 years has been influenced by a handful of bankers.

[Electric Church]

Yep...It's like we're all just pieces on their chess board.

[LBT]

see as well rothbard's account of early american history, in parts

one, (http://www.mises.org/books/conceived1.pdf) two, (http://www.mises.org/books/conceived2.pdf) three, (http://www.mises.org/books/conceived3.pdf) and four (http://www.mises.org/books/conceived4.pdf)

he also covers the subject of banks:

history of money and banking (www.mises.org/rothbard/historyofmoney.pdf)
Thanks for the effort of providing all those sources of info for consideration lojpre.

I also think the Austrian Economists have a better grasp of these subjects than FFTF and Money Masters.

[Electric Church]

I went to the links but there's no way I'm gonna read all that stuff. I would need at least 5 cups of coffee to stay awake.

[RP4ME]

I've heard this before, but have a little trouble understanding how it is done. I don't believe the Fed rebates the interest, else it would be shown as income in the budget. It appears that the money is simply made available to borrow again.

Comments, anyone?

Well first of all we are not allowed to audit the Federal Reserve so its hard to say what is really returned to us,......we alsoe re not allowed to know who teh owners are of teh Fed.....its not exactly a transparent group so what are they hiding????

[TVMH]

The problem I have is with movies like this is that if the "powers that be" have done this for 90+ years (try thousands of years) what makes anyone think any "one" man can change it. Obviously we have to start somewhere but I think the degree in which ignorance has prevailed and corruption has perpetrated our Government it will take an uprising.

What makes you think there isn't an uprising going on right now? ;)

[giskard]

lojpre,

Do you understand the significance of the Compound Interest Paradox:
http://fskrealityguide.blogspot.com/2007/06/compound-interest-paradox.html

Here's a video that describes it:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-9050474362583451279

Have you read Griffin's "The Creature from Jekyll Island"?

[giskard]

I guess not.

[max]

After watching that amazing film, I am awestruck. I feel like Neo in the Matrix after he has taken the red pill.....its...its almost surreal. I cannot believe what has become of our nation. I mean, I knew is was fucked up but not THAT fucked up. It has shown me that the events of the last 90 years have brought us to the brink of a new world order and that I must do EVERYTHING in my power to stop it.

The Ron Paul movement has taken on an entirely new meaning for me as of today. It is a fight for my future...a fight for my freedom. I know now that if things dont change soon, I will more than likely die not a free man but rather a slave.

For those of you who have not seen this film, I suggest you do as soon as possible. Consider it as your choice...do you want to take the Blue pill or the Red pill? :eek:

Pedro...there are those self-censoring handwringing types in here who say "Dont associate Freedom to Facism with RP...it's too radical..

Yet, I hear countless of stories like yours...of people experiencing an awakening from the film......

[mavtek]

Around here we 3 rules, good to know you took the pill.

1. Don't talk about fight club

2. Don't talk about fight club

3. Don't talk about fight club

[redpillguy]

TAKE THE RED PILL.
Read my blog (see below):

[cjhowe]

I went to the links but there's no way I'm gonna read all that stuff. I would need at least 5 cups of coffee to stay awake.

And that's the point. Monetary policy and income taxes are dull, dry topics. While adding drama, spooky music and out of context quotes may make it more entertaining, it doesn't make the drama true. There is a perfectly legitimate discussion to be had about these topics to effect change without trying to convince people to start digging a fallout shelter.

[giskard]

cjhowe, do you disagree with Murray Rothbard's assertion in his book "The Case Against the Fed" that the Fed is a banking cartel, born from Wall Street corruption?

[Electric Church]

And that's the point. Monetary policy and income taxes are dull, dry topics. While adding drama, spooky music and out of context quotes may make it more entertaining, it doesn't make the drama true. There is a perfectly legitimate discussion to be had about these topics to effect change without trying to convince people to start digging a fallout shelter.

Hey...I'm stickin to my Money Masters and AFTF. Monetary policy and income taxes are not dull to me because they effect my everyday life. A bunch of fat banking bastards are ripping me off and they aint gonna get away with it much longer.

And please don't post any more IRS tax codes.

[hard@work]

And that's the point. Monetary policy and income taxes are dull, dry topics. While adding drama, spooky music and out of context quotes may make it more entertaining, it doesn't make the drama true. There is a perfectly legitimate discussion to be had about these topics to effect change without trying to convince people to start digging a fallout shelter.

You know that really is true. There is much more depth to the system than just the foundation or concepts behind it. But I must say that ultimately I find myself an idealist. And ideally, I find the IRS to be criminal to the core and the income tax to be total enslavement. As harshly as that may be stated, ideologically that is dead on with my sentiments in regards to that organization and that form of taxation. So I welcome fallout shelter digging with open arms. This is a crime that must end ran by criminals with no conscience to care.

[michaelwise]

He's right it is the reptilian shape shifters that are controlling the world and they demand their do so don't question it:D

.You should absolutely watch that movie. Very moving. And as for the national debt, I believe the country will be bankrupt before inauguration day. RP will be there to pick up the pieces, but insure we will not go back to the old way. Mark my words.

[garkoblogo]

the birth of the Ron Paul campaign goes back to Aaron Russo and America Freedom to Fascism. Aaron gave the freedom movement a face and a voice and a heart and a kick in the ass. It was his brilliant idea to have a freedom loving Libertarian type run for the GOP presidential nomination and at the time Ron Paul was skeptical... which Ron Paul has said several times, that he discovered on his journey that "freedom is popular". But if it hadn't been for Aaron then we wouldn't have a Ron Paul campaign. I am certain of that.

[sky21448]

Yes, I am down with freedom. No matter what happen I will grab tight my freedom!!!!

Ron Paul 2008 the only President that can make changes in America~!

[Electric Church]

Thank you my fellow lovers of freedom for stickin up for Aaron...a true patriot.

[adpierce]

fascism is fun. The government should control everything because the average person isn't capable to make these tough decisions. The bankers in the same way know how to best use our money... average people don't know how to handle it. The Gold Standard .... is wise only if you don't trust people to handle the nation's finances in an intelligent and stable way. President Ron Paul... that would represent a shift away from a select few controlling the political structure of the nation and the economic structure of the nation. Those people were put in power for a reason. We the American people wanted them there. It's not as if this country was founded on the idea that individual rights and the idea that individuals are capable of making rational decisions about who ought to run the country. Oh wait.... maybe it was. Well I guess Ron Paul should be president.

[cjhowe]

cjhowe, do you disagree with Murray Rothbard's assertion in his book "The Case Against the Fed" that the Fed is a banking cartel, born from Wall Street corruption?

I am not familiar with the book, but if that is the assertion that the book makes, then yes, I do disagree with it. One of the purposes of the Fed was to break up trusts, which were the true cartels. The trusts used monopolistic practices to sway and corner markets. The Fed was created, in part, to reduce their power. Is it perfect? No. However, from the talk of the people in this thread, one could only presume that perfection would have been made through direct theft of the trusts' assets. This seems even more of a dangerous notion than what we ended up with.

[lucius]

I am not familiar with the book, but if that is the assertion that the book makes, then yes, I do disagree with it. One of the purposes of the Fed was to break up trusts, which were the true cartels. The trusts used monopolistic practices to sway and corner markets. The Fed was created, in part, to reduce their power. Is it perfect? No. However, from the talk of the people in this thread, one could only presume that perfection would have been made through direct theft of the trusts' assets. This seems even more of a dangerous notion than what we ended up with.

"In fact, as we have seen, the banks desperately desired a Central Bank, not to place fetters on their own natural tendency to inflate, but, on the contrary, to enable them to inflate and expand together without incurring the penalties of market competition. As a lender of last resort, the Central Bank could permit and encourage them to inflate when they would ordinarily have to contract their loans in order to save themselves. In short, the real reason for the adoption of the Federal Reserve, and its promotion by the large banks, was the exact opposite of their loudly trumpeted motivations. Rather than create and institution to curb their own profits on behalf of the public interest, the banks sought a Central Bank to enhance their profits by permitting them to inflate far beyond the bounds set by free-market competition."

P. 84, ‘The Case Against the Fed’ by Murry N. Rothbard of The Ludwig von Mises Institute.

[cjhowe]

"In fact, as we have seen, the banks desperately desired a Central Bank, not to place fetters on their own natural tendency to inflate, but, on the contrary, to enable them to inflate and expand together without incurring the penalties of market competition. As a lender of last resort, the Central Bank could permit and encourage them to inflate when they would ordinarily have to contract their loans in order to save themselves. In short, the real reason for the adoption of the Federal Reserve, and its promotion by the large banks, was the exact opposite of their loudly trumpeted motivations. Rather than create and institution to curb their own profits on behalf of the public interest, the banks sought a Central Bank to enhance their profits by permitting them to inflate far beyond the bounds set by free-market competition."

P. 84, ‘The Case Against the Fed’ by Murry N. Rothbard of The Ludwig von Mises Institute.

Whose argument of the day are you (any of the bank cartel conspiracy pushers) suggesting the country should have seized upon? William Jennings Bryan, if he couldn't have his silver currency, wanted government controlled fiat. The bankers wanted the Aldrich plan. The only alternative was pushing anti-trust legislation to new heights furthering government's dictation on free association. Step out of the world of hyperbole and discuss the actual issue.

[lucius]

...any of the bank cartel conspiracy pushers...

Comrade CJ,

Defender of the status quo, atypical Dr. Paul supporter, we go round and round yet again. Fortunately I had you PWNED from the get-go; ‘Sherman set the Way-back’:

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showpost.php?p=148291&postcount=33

This post of yours is very illuminating:


This should be required viewing for anyone regarding the issues of our day...

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8730688320934276492&q=TED+talks+global+wamring&total=7&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0

Another one-world ‘UN-topian Dreamer’ brought to you by the Bavarian Motor Works.

Back to topic; here is Dr. Paul’s position on the Federal Reserve:

“… the Federal Reserve, our central bank, fosters runaway debt by increasing the money supply — making each dollar in your pocket worth less. The Fed is a private bank run by unelected officials who are not required to be open or accountable to “we the people.”

Worse, our economy and our very independence as a nation is increasingly in the hands of foreign governments such as China and Saudi Arabia, because their central banks also finance our runaway spending…We cannot continue to allow private banks…”

http://www.ronpaul2008.com/issues/debt-and-taxes/

Here is why I support Dr. Paul; I believe Gurudas said it best in his, ‘Treason: The New World Order’,

“All these people say there are powerful groups threatening our way of life. Some sources identify the bankers and corporate elite as the source of our problems, while others feel the national security state is the threat. The power of Wall Street is now obvious to many. So much is happening today that it is increasingly clear a police state is no longer some distant event to fear. The American people must awaken and join together to restore constitutional government and diminish the power of the large corporations and their agent, the federal government, so that we can again be a free people.”

Wake-up… :)

[cjhowe]

Thanks for not answering the question. Keep adhering to the drama and ignore the true phenomenon of competing monetary policies, that is the true coddling of the status quo. You fail to understand the benefits and failures of competing economic and monetary policy and so you borrow words from those who can illicit a dopamine response. Grow up. You're more concerned about the validity of the person holding an idea than the validity of the idea itself.

[Electric Church]

I'm just an average joe and as an average joe one thing I know is that honest people are easy to understand while many of those who are dishonest cloak their lies in complex jargon and are very hard to understand. Ron Paul I can understand, Aaron Russo I can understand. Lucius I can understand.

[parke]

Now that youve seen that..

google: zeitgeist part 3

[giskard]

cjhowe,

Do you understand the significance of the Compound Interest Paradox:
http://fskrealityguide.blogspot.com/2007/06/compound-interest-paradox.html

Here's a video that describes it (but doesn't call it anything):
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-9050474362583451279

[Electric Church]

Now that youve seen that..

google: zeitgeist part 3

ya I’ve seen that atheist stuff. In relation to this thread, does that mean the fat bankers have no god except mammon?

[cjhowe]

cjhowe,

Do you understand the significance of the Compound Interest Paradox:
http://fskrealityguide.blogspot.com/2007/06/compound-interest-paradox.html

Here's a video that describes it (but doesn't call it anything):
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-9050474362583451279

fsk's "Compound Interest Paradox" is invalid because it ignores the lender's desire/need to consume goods and services as well as the inevitable occurrence that the lender will miscalculate his risk.

[redpillguy]

It's invalid if the lender creates non-debt-based money for his own consumption, which is not true.

The 2nd part of your statement makes no sense.

[redpillguy]

ya I’ve seen that atheist stuff. In relation to this thread, does that mean the fat bankers have no god except mammon?

Where did the movie ever say that bankers are atheists?

I take it you got so turned off by part I you didn't bother to look at part II and part III. That's a classic case of the Strawman Fallacy.

[jmdrake]

bankers do not control the world, and it is pointless to argue there is no income tax liability. The government determains your liability, that's all you need to know

Do not show me who makes the rules. Show me who has the gold. He who has the gold makes the rules.

That quote is just as true now as it was 30 years ago when I first hear it. Bankers funded BOTH SIDES during WW II. Do you think Hitler could have risen to power without financial backing? Wake up and smell the dollars dude.

Regards,

John M. Drake

[jmdrake]

the birth of the Ron Paul campaign goes back to Aaron Russo and America Freedom to Fascism. Aaron gave the freedom movement a face and a voice and a heart and a kick in the ass. It was his brilliant idea to have a freedom loving Libertarian type run for the GOP presidential nomination and at the time Ron Paul was skeptical... which Ron Paul has said several times, that he discovered on his journey that "freedom is popular". But if it hadn't been for Aaron then we wouldn't have a Ron Paul campaign. I am certain of that.

Exactly! Forget all of the disinformation. Freedom to Fascism is 100% accurate! Even the "tax protestor debunkers" admit that there are legitimate questions about the ratification of the 16th amendment.

http://evans-legal.com/dan/tpfaq.html#ratification

No 16th amendment, no IRS.

Regards,

John M. Drake

[Electric Church]

Where did the movie ever say that bankers are atheists?

I take it you got so turned off by part I you didn't bother to look at part II and part III. That's a classic case of the Strawman Fallacy.


I asked a question. I didn't make a statement. "?" That mark to the left means, "question". Why? Because this is a thread about monetary policy and the Federal Reserve and the legality of income taxes all brought up in AFTF. Now if the post has nothing to do with this thread you can start another one about that atheist movie, in particular the parts that you mentioned and explain the connection to AFTF. If you can't do that then stop blowing hot stale air around.

[Syren123]

If anyone lives in the Pasadena, CA area, The Red Pill (me) is showing America: Freedom to Fascism TONIGHT (10/18) at the Pasadena Public Library at 7 pm. Admission is free.

Pasadena Public Library
285 East Walnut Street, Pasadena
7 pm sharp
Be there and bring your skeptical friends.

[Electric Church]

If anyone lives in the Pasadena, CA area, The Red Pill (me) is showing America: Freedom to Fascism TONIGHT (10/18) at the Pasadena Public Library at 7 pm. Admission is free.

Pasadena Public Library
285 East Walnut Street, Pasadena
7 pm sharp
Be there and bring your skeptical friends.

excellent :cool:

[cjhowe]

It's invalid if the lender creates non-debt-based money for his own consumption, which is not true.

The 2nd part of your statement makes no sense.

I give up. No amount of logic can counter your PTSD.

[Electric Church]

thank you

[Carson]

in 1997, the federal reserve took in 25.7 billion in treasuries but returned 20.6 billion of it


Where did you hear that?

Just this year alone I figure that we own the Federal Reserve 280,000,000,000 on our debt of 7,000,000,000,000 figured at a 4% interest rate.

Now why would the group of men that created the Federal Reserve give any back?

Not only does it seem unlikely to me that they have given any back it also seems unlikely that they have used any of there money for building or maintenance of the Federal Reserve.

I'll bet we paid to build the Federal Reserve building that their business is housed in and all of the ink, paper and presses.

They got started in 1914 after bribing Woodrow Wilson and several Honorable members of the United States Congress from the way the stories go. I think that was a very small investment to add our country, or prized pearl, to their string of pearls or other banks and businesses located around the world.

I don't think they even spend their money to get what they want now. I think they have continued to bribe to get what they want.

Have you wondered where the money comes from to encourage the members on Congress to spend money on things like social services for illegal invaders?

Have you wondered where the money comes from to encourage our colleges to preach a One World Order agenda?

People with huge sums of money can afford to encourage these sorts of activities. They spend a little on a bribe and we borrow the money from them to pay for what ever it is they desire we do. It is a brilliant scheme. We often see the Federal Government pull the same thing on the State Governments.

It could very well be wrong on this. Thinking along these lines could help explain some of the policy's our nation and Europe have adopted in the last 93 years.

[rp4prez]

Matter of fact Ronald Regan was going to abolish the Federal Reserve also, until someone got ahold of him.

Its not fake, the Rothchild Family does own 99% of the worlds money.

Napoleon had to go to them to help him wage war. (Documented FACT)

Why don't you do some research there buddy
Ohh!! Could you provide me some links to RR wanting to abolish the Fed and the others? PLEASE!! :)

[Carson]

Ohh!! Could you provide me some links to RR wanting to abolish the Fed and the others? PLEASE!! :)


Here is some of what he has written on the subject of the Federal Reserve.

The Federal Reserve Monopoly Over Money
http://www.house.gov/paul/tst/tst2007/tst040907.htm

Monetary Policy is Critically Important:
http://www.house.gov/paul/tst/tst2007/tst021907.htm

The Ron Paul Library has an archive full of writings by the
Congressman on the issue of monetary policy and economics:
http://www.ronpaullibrary.org/topic.php?id=9

[rp4prez]

Thank You Thank You Thank You!! :)

[Carson]

I look at the Federal Reserve like a credit card company for the nation.

People keep saying the ecconomy is strong but I am more that a little leery about such statements.

Some of us have been having to use our credit cards to keep afloat on things like month to month bills.

It seems the nation has been doing the same thing.

It is hard to keep all of the reports straight. Form the best I can gather is we owe between 6.7 trillion and 7.6 trillion. That could just be me flipping the figures in my mind. I have recently also heard that the Federal Reserve raised our nations credit limit to 9 trillion so we wouldn't have to default on our loan. I'm sure many of you have had your credit limits raised over the years to keep you all in the game.

The money our nation pays in interest is a small part of what the Federal Reserve takes in, in just this country. They also keep the other banks afloat when they should by all rights be out of business. Many are hitting the Federal Reserve now because they have money loaned out against the housing market. When the price of housing falls so does the value of the assets they hold.

The housing market we ran up just like the price of stock was run up in the thirties. Then they called it buying on margin. Then we put a percentage down to buy stock. Now we were putting a percentage down to invest in a house. We didn't pay what we thought the house was worth. We made our bids on who was willing to out borrow the next guy. Running up the price of stock or housing works okay for some on the way up. It works out for very few on the way down.

[Carson]

Think about the money it cost to educate all on the people that come to this country illegally.

Why doesn't the government stop it? Maybe the ones that go along with the lawlessness get the campaign contributions and the Main Stream Media's coverage.

The Federal Reserve makes money when they loan money.

[rp4prez]

I look at the Federal Reserve like a credit card company for the nation.

People keep saying the ecconomy is strong but I am more that a little leery about such statements.

Some of us have been having to use our credit cards to keep afloat on things like month to month bills.

It seems the nation has been doing the same thing.

It is hard to keep all of the reports straight. Form the best I can gather is we owe between 6.7 trillion and 7.6 trillion. That could just be me flipping the figures in my mind. I have recently also heard that the Federal Reserve raised our nations credit limit to 9 trillion so we wouldn't have to default on our loan. I'm sure many of you have had your credit limits raised over the years to keep you all in the game.

The money our nation pays in interest is a small part of what the Federal Reserve takes in, in just this country. They also keep the other banks afloat when they should by all rights be out of business. Many are hitting the Federal Reserve now because they have money loaned out against the housing market. When the price of housing falls so does the value of the assets they hold.

The housing market we ran up just like the price of stock was run up in the thirties. Then they called it buying on margin. Then we put a percentage down to buy stock. Now we were putting a percentage down to invest in a house. We didn't pay what we thought the house was worth. We made our bids on who was willing to out borrow the next guy. Running up the price of stock or housing works okay for some on the way up. It works out for very few on the way down.

Try telling this to people who read so called main stream creditable sources...

[cjhowe]

I can't help it...new people regurgitating the same crap...

Put yourself back in 1913. Whose argument would you have put forth instead of central banking to counter the banking problems of the day? What you stand for is more important than what you stand against.

[Carson]

I can't help it...new people regurgitating the same crap...

Put yourself back in 1913. Whose argument would you have put forth instead of central banking to counter the banking problems of the day? What you stand for is more important than what you stand against.


Back before the banking industry was monopolized we we had small banks that did the same sort of thing. They printed money against their assets. If you held money in a bank that used unsound practices some times you could find yourself in trouble. I would imagine that it would have made sense watch your banker'S very carefully.

Now we have one central bank that is able to cover the unsound practices and failures by inflating the currency. We all lose. Well anyone that has tried to save for their future.

I think the current system puts an incredible amount of power in the hands of just a few men. Over the years I would suspect they have been able to organize quite a few into there helping achieve their goals. One of which seems to be One World Order.

I'm not totally against the world coming together as one. If it is ever going to come about it needs to come about from the small groups on up. Not the other way around. The leaders of the world need to get back to the business of being good examples. If someone sees someone doing something they like they need to try it and see if it works for them. That is the only way we will become one.

How much sense does it make to hear someone in the government talk about something like gun control when they are buying building and stockpiling every form of weapon they can charge up on their credit cards. That's not leadership.




They (who) seek to establish systems of government based on the regimentation of all human beings by a handful of individual rulers. . . call this a new order. It is not new and it is not order.
-- Franklin D. Roosevelt

[cjhowe]

Back before the banking industry was monopolized we we had small banks that did the same sort of thing. They printed money against their assets. If you held money in a bank that used unsound practices some times you could find yourself in trouble. I would imagine that it would have made sense watch your banker'S very carefully.

Now we have one central bank that is able to cover the unsound practices and failures by inflating the currency. We all lose. Well anyone that has tried to save for their future.

I think the current system puts an incredible amount of power in the hands of just a few men. Over the years I would suspect they have been able to organize quite a few into there helping achieve their goals. One of which seems to be One World Order.

I'm not totally against the world coming together as one. If it is ever going to come about it needs to come about from the small groups on up. Not the other way around. The leaders of the world need to get back to the business of being good examples. If someone sees someone doing something they like they need to try it and see if it works for them. That is the only way we will become one.

How much sense does it make to hear someone in the government talk about something like gun control when they are buying building and stockpiling every form of weapon they can charge up on their credit cards. That's not leadership.




They (who) seek to establish systems of government based on the regimentation of all human beings by a handful of individual rulers. . . call this a new order. It is not new and it is not order.
-- Franklin D. Roosevelt


So, you would have been for allowing the financial problems of the day to continue without federal resolution, allowing money trusts to continue their monopolistic practices?

[redpillguy]

ya I’ve seen that atheist stuff. In relation to this thread, does that mean the fat bankers have no god except mammon?

I fail to see your point ... ??

[redpillguy]

fsk's "Compound Interest Paradox" is invalid because it ignores the lender's desire/need to consume goods and services ...
Show me what lender creates non-debt-based money to cover their own expenses.

[cjhowe]

Show me what lender creates non-debt-based money to cover their own expenses.

I cannot, because lenders do not "create" anything to cover their expenses. They hand over the proceeds from their inflows.

[giskard]

That doesn't invalidate the Compound Interest Paradox.

[cjhowe]

That doesn't invalidate the Compound Interest Paradox.

Actually it does. The paradox that is being discussed is that there is no way to pay back debt because compound interest makes the amount of debt larger than the amount of debt money to pay back. This would only be true if the banks hoarded EVERY dollar returned to them in payment of the debt. They do not do this. Instead, they pay their employees. They pay the Ozarka water guy. They pay Dunder Mifflin Paper Company. They pay them from the proceeds they received from compound interest. In addition, they put out loans that gets absolved not from repayment but through default on the loan. Because of these outflows from the bank all debt can be paid off, even the debt created by compound interest.

[Electric Church]

This would only be true if the banks hoarded EVERY dollar returned to them in payment of the debt. They do not do this. Instead, they pay their employees. They pay the Ozarka water guy. They pay Dunder Mifflin Paper Company.

Ya...Al Capone paid all his minions and for all these services too. Big fat inbred bankers gotta wipe their fat butts too. Why don't you go start a "Bleeding Hearts For Central Bankers Forum”? Or go write a song titled “The Poor Fed’s got the Expense Account Blues”?

[cjhowe]

Ya...Al Capone paid all his minions and for all these services too. Big fat inbred bankers gotta wipe their fat butts too. Why don't you go start a "Bleeding Hearts For Central Bankers Forum”? Or go write a song titled “The Poor Fed’s got the Expense Account Blues”?

Thanks Canada. No one is feeling sorry for anyone. Simply this paradox doesn't exist. It's a closed system. No additions or removals from the outside world.

[lucius]

...Grow up...

My undergraduate degree is in engineering, held a NSA clearance; collaborate within the highest echelons of the US military, producing components for the most advanced weapon-systems this planet has ever seen/not seen. Through Dr. Paul, I now naturally gravitate to the Austrian School of economics, small wonder huh?

“What Can Be Done?

It should be now be all too clear that we cannot rely upon Alan Greenspan, or any Federal Reserve Chairman, to wage the good fight against the chronic inflation that has wrecked our savings, distorted our currency, levied hidden redistribution of income and wealth, an brought us devastating booms and busts, Despite the Establishment propaganda, Greenspan,. the Fed, and the private commercial bankers are not the “Inflation Hawks” they like to label themselves, The Fed and the banks are not part of the solution to inflation: they are instead part of the problem, In fact, they are the problem. The American economy has suffered form chronic inflation, and from destructive booms and busts, because that inflation has been invariable generated by the Fed itself. That role, in fact , is very purpose of its existence: to cartelize the private commercial banks, and to help them inflate money and credit together, pumping in reserves to the banks, and bailing them out if they get into trouble. When the Fed was imposed upon the public by the cartel of big banks and their hired economists, they told us that the Fed was needed to provide needed stability to the economic system. After the Fed was founded, during the 1920’s, the Establishment economists and bankers proclaimed that the American economy was now in a marvelous New Era, and era in which the Fed, employing its modern scientific tools, would stabilize the monetary system and eliminate any future business cycles. The result: it is undeniable that, ever since the Fed was visited upon in 1914, our inflations have been more intense, and our depressions far deeper, than ever before.

There is only one way to eliminate chronic inflation, as well as the booms and busts brought by that system of inflationary credit: and that is to eliminate the counterfeiting that constitutes and creates that inflation. And the only way to do that is to abolish legalized counterfeiting: that is, to abolish the Federal Reserve System, and return to the gold standard, to a monetary system where a market-produced metal, such as gold, serves as the standard money, and not paper tickets printed by the Federal Reserve.”

p. 145-146, ‘The Case Against the Fed’ by Murray N. Rothbard, The Ludwig von Mises Institute

One question for you, answer in a binary yes/no: Is the Federal Reserve a private corporation that masquerade as an US Government entity?

[Carson]

Nice post lucius.

I would like to see us look into having the money supply tied into the wealth that is created by people in some way. I can see how a fixed supply tied to anything like gold, silver, or sticks and rocks has its merits.

What if a nation or a group had a ton of money and spent it for a ton of steel. They then turned the ton of steel into a ton of fishhooks of sewing needles. Should a money supply reflect that?

I'm no expert on any of this. I'm not saying what we have or have had is totally bad. I would think we should be able to discuss some of the shortcomings and maybe work out something that allows people that have worked hard in their past to be able to save for their futures.



P.S. Perhaps if people want to use million dollar bombs to blow up poor peoples homes the money supply should also reflect that. The bombs nor the homes are any longer on the market or in the supply.

[cjhowe]

One question for you, answer in a binary yes/no: Is the Federal Reserve a private corporation that masquerade as an US Government entity?

No.

[dmspilot00]

No.
Then what is it?

[cjhowe]

Then what is it?

It's a private corporation under certain restrictions of the federal government.

[giskard]

Actually it does. The paradox that is being discussed is that there is no way to pay back debt because compound interest makes the amount of debt larger than the amount of debt money to pay back. This would only be true if the banks hoarded EVERY dollar returned to them in payment of the debt. They do not do this. Instead, they pay their employees. They pay the Ozarka water guy. They pay Dunder Mifflin Paper Company. They pay them from the proceeds they received from compound interest. In addition, they put out loans that gets absolved not from repayment but through default on the loan. Because of these outflows from the bank all debt can be paid off, even the debt created by compound interest.

Do you actually think that their cost of running their operations is equal to the interest on ALL the money they created for the entire nation?

[cjhowe]

Do you actually think that their cost of running their operations is equal to the interest on ALL the money they created for the entire nation?

Yes, because what they hoard afterwards DECREASES in value because of inflation!