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YumYum
07-11-2010, 03:15 PM
What is the difference between a Tea Party candidate and a neocon? Unless she has changed her position, Lou Ann Zelenik is a pro-Bush, pro-Iraq war and pro-nation building neocon.

Ron Paul supporters thought they could win back the Republican Party, but it seems to be backfiring. The neocons have infiltrated the Ron Paul supporters.


"In Tennessee, a tea party Republican seeking a congressional seat in a crowded field has made headlines by opposing construction of a suburban Nashville mosque. Candidate Lou Ann Zelenik says the "Islamic training center" is part of a political movement "designed to fracture the moral and political foundation of Middle Tennessee."

"Until the American Muslim community finds it in their hearts to separate themselves from their evil, radical counterparts, to condemn those who want to destroy our civilization ... we are not obligated to open our society to any of them," Zelenik says. She hopes to replace Democratic Rep. Bart Gordon, who is retiring after 13 terms."

Tea party's next wave rising in Alaska to Colorado

By MICHAEL R. BLOOD, AP Political Writer Michael R. Blood, Ap Political Writer –

Sat Jul 3, 3:34 pm ET

Rifle through a stack of tea party candidate resumes, and Joe Miller's will stand out.

The man who wants to turn a fellow Republican, Alaska Sen. Lisa Murkowski, out of office is a graduate of Yale Law School and West Point, a decorated combat veteran and former judge. Many tea partiers share his disdain for Washington, its political gridlock and mounting debt, but not his credentials.

The message he conveys, though, is straight from the tea party script: He fears the nation is veering toward socialism and insolvency. He says Murkowski is too liberal.

To Miller, Alaska's senior senator is complicit in the ballooning U.S. debt and spending and has a voting record that would make a Democrat proud. His agenda envisions a federal government with reduced limits. He would cut off federal dollars for the United Nations, gradually privatize Medicare and Social Security and disband federal departments that aren't spelled out in the Constitution, including the Environmental Protection Agency and the Education Department.....

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_tea_party_next_up;_ylt=AuidbfXczbLWwHtwN1v6g0Wy Fz4D;_ylu=X3oDMTNvOGNicGM1BGFzc2V0A3libG9nX3Vwc2hv dC8yMDEwMDcwOS9zaGFycm9uLWFuZ2xlLXN0cnVnZ2xlcy1vbi 10aGUtbmF0aW9uYWwtc3RhZ2UEY3BvcwMxBHBvcwM0BHNlYwN5 bl90b3Bfc3RvcnkEc2xrA3RlYXBhcnR5c25leA--

specsaregood
07-11-2010, 03:17 PM
I don't see where in your post they claim to be supporters of Dr. Paul.

klamath
07-11-2010, 03:23 PM
I don't see where in your post they claim to be supporters of Dr. Paul.

I couldn't either.

catdd
07-11-2010, 03:24 PM
Yeah, RP supporters and the TeoCons have long since parted ways.

low preference guy
07-11-2010, 03:26 PM
I don't see where in your post they claim to be supporters of Dr. Paul.

Neither do I. Maybe Yum Yum is drunk.

YumYum
07-11-2010, 03:26 PM
I don't see where in your post they claim to be supporters of Dr. Paul.

Lou Ann is the focus of my point. They mention her in the article that I provided. I have met her and heard her spew her neocon position against Muslims and her pro Iraq war views. She hates Muslims and has called them our enemies.

Many neocons have been to C4L meetings pretending to be Ron Paul supporters. Lou Ann is one of them; unless she has done a 180. By her comments she made about the mosque, its apparent she hasn't. I thought she had changed.

specsaregood
07-11-2010, 03:30 PM
Many neocons have been to C4L meetings pretending to be Ron Paul supporters. Lou Ann is one of them; unless she has done a 180. By her comments she made about the mosque, its apparent she hasn't. I thought she had changed.

Ah, so we weren't missing it, your comment was based on personal experiences we couldn't have been expected to know about. Thanks for clearing that up. Perhaps you should write a reply to her? I have met a few hardworking muslim Americans in that area of TN -- they were all ex-iraqis and goat farmers-- they were good Americans and should be allowed to build a place to worship just like any christian american should have the right to build.

klamath
07-11-2010, 03:30 PM
Lou Ann is the focus of my point. They mention her in the article that I provided. I have met her and heard her spew her neocon position against Muslims and her pro Iraq war views. She hates Muslims and has called them our enemies.

Many neocons have been to C4L meetings pretending to be Ron Paul supporters. Lou Ann is one of them; unless she has done a 180. By her comments she made about the mosque, its apparent she hasn't. I thought she had changed.

Did this lou Ann attend a CFL meeting? If so where and when and did she say she was supporting RP?

YumYum
07-11-2010, 03:39 PM
Did this lou Ann attend a CFL meeting? If so where and when and did she say she was supporting RP?

I attended meetings with her outside of Nashville. There was hope that she would come around and drop her neocon views. One night at a meet-up she started in about the Muslims being our enemies and terrorist, and a few in the group agreed with her. But some long time Ron Paul supporters put a stop the Muslim bashing. She needed the Ron Paul supporters because we are hard workers. The young Republicans are useless. We were used.

erowe1
07-11-2010, 03:40 PM
Even if Zelenik did pretend to be a Ron Paul supporter, I don't see how that means that anything has backfired. It seems like you're saying that infiltrating groups doesn't work, but the evidence you're using is someone who supposedly infiltrated some group of Ron Paul supporters and it worked. So doesn't your evidence prove the exact opposite of the conclusion you drew from it? Or is there some reason that it only works when other people do it but not when we do it?

YumYum
07-11-2010, 03:42 PM
Ah, so we weren't missing it, your comment was based on personal experiences we couldn't have been expected to know about. Thanks for clearing that up. Perhaps you should write a reply to her? I have met a few hardworking muslim Americans in that area of TN -- they were all ex-iraqis and goat farmers-- they were good Americans and should be allowed to build a place to worship just like any christian american should have the right to build.

I agree. I have always liked the Muslims I have met. She doesn't, and she is a C4L member.

As I stated, I thought she had changed, but from the comments she made in this article; she hasn't.

YumYum
07-11-2010, 03:50 PM
Even if Zelenik did pretend to be a Ron Paul supporter, I don't see how that means that anything has backfired. It seems like you're saying that infiltrating groups doesn't work, but the evidence you're using is someone who supposedly infiltrated some group of Ron Paul supporters and it worked. So doesn't your evidence prove the exact opposite of the conclusion you drew from it? Or is there some reason that it only works when other people do it but not when we do it?

Our group went in and almost took over the County Republican Party. Had we been better prepared, we would have had total control. The neocons freaked out, and they figured out what we were up to. Look what Matt Collins went through. After that, Lou Ann shows up to our meet-ups and wants to be a Ron Paul supporter. But she talks neocon talk and we were beginning to wonder what her agenda was. Then we knew; she announced she was running for Congress and she needed our help. She is rich and powerful, and now, some of the C4L members are supporting her.

All I am saying is that what we tried to do, the neocons turned the tide and did it to us. They outsmarted us.

michaelwise
07-11-2010, 04:01 PM
Odds that Muslim ideology will take over any American ideology are are about the same as me becoming POTUS. It's a non issue.

John Taylor
07-11-2010, 04:05 PM
Yeah, RP supporters and the TeoCons have long since parted ways.

Teocons? You mean the people brought through the consistent message of Ron Paul's last campaign towards the freedom philosophy? Just because they don't embrace your anarchism doesn't mean they aren't persuadable... the FACT is, it isn't our own 2007-2008 Ron Paul backers who are buying up Thomas Woods books, or Frederic von Hayek's...

John Taylor
07-11-2010, 04:06 PM
Our group went in and almost took over the County Republican Party. Had we been better prepared, we would have had total control. The neocons freaked out, and they figured out what we were up to. Look what Matt Collins went through. After that, Lou Ann shows up to our meet-ups and wants to be a Ron Paul supporter. But she talks neocon talk and we were beginning to wonder what her agenda was. Then we knew; she announced she was running for Congress and she needed our help. She is rich and powerful, and now, some of the C4L members are supporting her.

All I am saying is that what we tried to do, the neocons turned the tide and did it to us. They outsmarted us.

I thought you said you were a "Ron Paul-Democrat"?

YumYum
07-11-2010, 04:11 PM
I thought you said you were a "Ron Paul-Democrat"?

I recently quit the Republican Party. I can help more Democrats than neocons. Ron Paul has had great success with leftest. They love his message. Leftest enjoy a good, civil debate, and are willing to change their views when presented with logic.

I quit the Republican Party when a neocon told me at the Department of Licensing that he wanted to kill liberals. For me, that was the last straw.

erowe1
07-11-2010, 04:14 PM
Our group went in and almost took over the County Republican Party. Had we been better prepared, we would have had total control. The neocons freaked out, and they figured out what we were up to. Look what Matt Collins went through. After that, Lou Ann shows up to our meet-ups and wants to be a Ron Paul supporter. But she talks neocon talk and we were beginning to wonder what her agenda was. Then we knew; she announced she was running for Congress and she needed our help. She is rich and powerful, and now, some of the C4L members are supporting her.

All I am saying is that what we tried to do, the neocons turned the tide and did it to us. They outsmarted us.

I think there are different lessons that could be drawn from those experiences. Instead of saying that it's counterproductive, one might just as easily conclude that these examples show we need more of us to get involved in the GOP. If Collins had more precinct chairs on his side in his county party, they could have prevented his ouster. If Your group had more people, you would be able to replace "almost" in your first sentence with "completely."

YumYum
07-11-2010, 04:19 PM
I think there are different lessons that could be drawn from those experiences. Instead of saying that it's counterproductive, one might just as easily conclude that these examples show we need more of us to get involved in the GOP. If Collins had more precinct chairs on his side in his county party, they could have prevented his ouster. If Your group had more people, you would be able to replace "almost" in your first sentence with "completely."

I agree. But we were new at this and we rushed into it. Once the neocons saw what we were up to they fought fire with fire. I'm not saying that what the neocons did was wrong, I am saying that many Ron Paul supporters think that the Tea Party people have come over to Ron Paul's way of thinking. And yes, they have, on the issues they choose to do so. Otherwise, they are nothing more than George W. Bush Part 2.

jmdrake
07-11-2010, 05:46 PM
Our group went in and almost took over the County Republican Party. Had we been better prepared, we would have had total control. The neocons freaked out, and they figured out what we were up to. Look what Matt Collins went through. After that, Lou Ann shows up to our meet-ups and wants to be a Ron Paul supporter. But she talks neocon talk and we were beginning to wonder what her agenda was. Then we knew; she announced she was running for Congress and she needed our help. She is rich and powerful, and now, some of the C4L members are supporting her.

All I am saying is that what we tried to do, the neocons turned the tide and did it to us. They outsmarted us.

I didn't know you were in the Nashville area. Yeah Lou Ann is shaky. There are some solid candidates coming out of middle TN though. If you're on the meetup mailing list or the Middle TN CFL list you'll have heard about them. PM if you want more info.

angelatc
07-11-2010, 05:48 PM
Neither do I. Maybe Yum Yum is drunk.

Seriously, I think he's off his meds or something. He's all over the political spectrum today.

YumYum
07-11-2010, 06:41 PM
I didn't know you were in the Nashville area. Yeah Lou Ann is shaky. There are some solid candidates coming out of middle TN though. If you're on the meetup mailing list or the Middle TN CFL list you'll have heard about them. PM if you want more info.

I've moved to Missouri, but I keep in touch with some of my C4L friends in the Nashville area.

The Nashville area C4L people are some of the most down-to-Earth, hardest working activists I've ever had the pleasure to be associated with. I do believe that Bart Gordon is retiring because of the relentless pressure we put on him.

freshjiva
07-11-2010, 08:39 PM
There is simply no way a neocon can pose as a Ron Paul supporter. Neoconservatism and Libertarianism have zero common ground when it comes to foreign policy.

Actually, they, in practice, share almost no common ground in anything, except for maybe low taxes.

Promontorium
07-12-2010, 02:42 AM
I've attended Catholic, Christian, and Mormon church services, each at least several times.


I am an Atheist. I didn't pretend to be anything else. Attending isn't believing.

Inflation
07-12-2010, 04:26 PM
Yeah, RP supporters and the TeoCons have long since parted ways.

Oh yes, totally.

Except for that little 'Palin endorses Rand Paul' thing.

And Coulter tearing into Billy Kristol.

And a few dozen other items.

But apart from those, never shall Ron Paul Anarchists, Palin Populists, and Buchanan Pitchforkers ever, EVAR, EVAR agree on anything or work toward mutual goals, or work against common enemies.

YumYum
07-12-2010, 04:33 PM
Except for that little 'Palin endorses Rand Paul' thing.

If Rand is a part of the Palin agenda, that could end up hurting the Ron Paul movement by breaking us up.

TNforPaul45
07-12-2010, 04:46 PM
Ben Leming (Democratic Candidate for the 6th District) and Zelnik have been going back and forth on this Mosque issue:

I have to agree with him, that government has no business telling one religion they can worship at one spot and another that they cannot:

http://www.examiner.com/x-34053-Nashville-Political-Buzz-Examiner~y2010m7d5-Leming-Zelenik-make-mosque-matter