Bush wanted REAL ID

[UncleFreedom76]

Bush and Obama, more alike than anything else.

YouTube - Bush: Biometric Immigration ID Card (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JXYcYIZ6_K4)

Bush wanted real ID on immigration issues in Arizona. Are these two difference presidents?!

[Kregisen]

I haven't done research on the whole national ID card issue.

What's the libertarian argument? Why is it horrible? Because it's a lack of privacy?

[JeNNiF00F00]

..

[ClayTrainor]

I haven't done research on the whole national ID card issue.

What's the libertarian argument? Why is it horrible? Because it's a lack of privacy?

It's important to oppose it on principle. If you own yourself, than you should be able to choose not to have a piece of plastic represent you, without being punished.

Another important reason to oppose it, is because it won't actually solve hte problem they claim it will...


http://www.lewrockwell.com/paul/paul248.html


National ID Cards Won't Stop Terrorism or Illegal Immigration

by Rep. Ron Paul, MD

The US House of Representatives passed a spending bill last week that contains provisions establishing a national ID card, and the Senate is poised to approve the measure in the next few days. This week marks the American public’s last chance to convince their Senators they don’t want to live in a nation that demands papers from its citizens as they go about their lives.

Absent a political miracle in the Senate, within two years every American will need a conforming national ID card to participate in ordinary activities. This REAL ID Act establishes a massive, centrally-coordinated database of highly personal information about American citizens: at a minimum their name, date of birth, place of residence, Social Security number, and physical characteristics. The legislation also grants open-ended authority to the Secretary of Homeland Security to require biometric information on IDs in the future. This means your harmless looking driver’s license could contain a retina scan, fingerprints, DNA information, or radio frequency technology.


Think this sounds farfetched? Read the REAL ID Act, HR 418, for yourself. Its text is available on the Library of Congress website. A careful reading also reveals that states will be required to participate in the “Drivers License Agreement,” which was crafted by DMV lobbyists years ago. This agreement creates a massive database of sensitive information on American citizens that can be shared with Canada and Mexico!

Terrorism is the excuse given for virtually every new power grab by the federal government, and the national ID is no exception. But federal agencies have tried to create a national ID for years, long before the 9-11 attacks. In fact, a 1996 bill sought to do exactly what the REAL ID Act does: transform state drivers’ licenses into de facto national ID cards. At the time, Congress was flooded with calls by angry constituents and the bill ultimately died.


Proponents of the REAL ID Act continue to make the preposterous claim that the bill does not establish a national ID card. This is dangerous and insulting nonsense. Let’s get the facts straight: The REAL ID Act transforms state motor vehicle departments into agents of the federal government. Nationalizing standards for driver's licenses and birth certificates in a federal bill creates a national ID system, pure and simple. Having the name of your particular state on the ID is meaningless window dressing.

Federally imposed standards for drivers' license and birth certificates make a mockery of federalism and the 10th amendment. While states technically are not forced to accept the federal standards, any refusal to comply would mean their residents could not get a job, receive Social Security, or travel by plane. So rather than imposing a direct mandate on the states, the federal government is blackmailing them into complying with federal dictates.

One overriding point has been forgotten: Criminals don’t obey laws! As with gun control, national ID cards will only affect law-abiding citizens. Do we really believe a terrorist bent on murder is going to dutifully obtain a federal ID card? Do we believe that people who openly flout our immigration laws will nonetheless respect our ID requirements? Any ID card can be forged; any federal agency or state DMV is susceptible to corruption. Criminals can and will obtain national ID cards, or operate without them. National ID cards will be used to track the law-abiding masses, not criminals.

[Kregisen]

May as well start learning German right now, if you have to ask that question.

Well we have ID already so I haven't yet seen why it's necessarily evil....just trying to get input here. I'm not gonna take a stance on something just because other people do.

So the more answers I get the better.

[Philhelm]

I haven't done research on the whole national ID card issue.

What's the libertarian argument? Why is it horrible? Because it's a lack of privacy?

Also, I'll add on a more personal note that I prefer to be viewed as an individual human being, and not a set of numbers or a bar code. I have the same issue with social security numbers. People are now just numbers to be computed in a machine. :(

[Kregisen]

It's important to oppose it on principle. If you own yourself, than you should be able to choose not to have a piece of plastic represent you, without being punished.

Another important reason to oppose it, is because it won't actually solve hte problem they claim it will...


Nice. Always good to hear Ron's input.

[ClayTrainor]

Well we have ID already so I haven't yet seen why it's necessarily evil....just trying to get input here. I'm not gonna take a stance on something just because other people do.


Real ID, just takes the current Passport ID system to a new technological level. It'll make it easier for the state to track the details of your life.

[Golding]

May as well start learning German right now, if you have to ask that question.What a dumb and uninformative answer.

[Zippyjuan]

There are national IDs already. We have state IDs and driver's licenses and on the national level- Social Security Cards and Passports. If the government seriously wants to track you, they can already use those. Biometrics are sought by people trying to reduce counterfits. You know, people like illegal aliens or terrorists trying to get into the country or find jobs. But wait, 99% of all terrorists who have been busted in the US were not here illegally so I guess that doesn't work. And 40% of illegal aliens also came here legally- they just overstayed on legit visas and passports. Maybe we don't need a national ID after all.

[jmdrake]

There are national IDs already. We have state IDs and driver's licenses and on the national level- Social Security Cards and Passports. If the government seriously wants to track you, they can already use those. Biometrics are sought by people trying to reduce counterfits. You know, people like illegal aliens or terrorists trying to get into the country or find jobs. But wait, 99% of all terrorists who have been busted in the US were not here illegally so I guess that doesn't work. And 40% of illegal aliens also came here legally- they just overstayed on legit visas and passports. Maybe we don't need a national ID after all.

Social security cards, by law, are not supposed to be used for identification. (I know the federal government violates its own laws all the time). Most people don't have passports, and those that do don't carry them most of the time. (You only need one if you're leaving the country). Drivers licenses currently aren't standard so they aren't a national ID card. The push for biometrics is not simply to thwart counterfeiting. That can be done without biometrics. (There aren't any biometrics in that $20 bill in your wallet after all). The key issue is the attempt to make the cards machine readable. Take the current situation of you showing your ID to get into a building. The guard can look at it and let you in or not. No loss of privacy. If he scans your ID he's created a record of your visit. The potential for this kind of abuse is enormous. Yes the government has ways to track people, but this takes it to a whole new level. You have the same problem with the "speed pass" cards some states issue for toll roads. Such information is already being used against people in court.

[Krugerrand]

Social security cards, by law, are not supposed to be used for identification. (I know the federal government violates its own laws all the time). Most people don't have passports, and those that do don't carry them most of the time. (You only need one if you're leaving the country). Drivers licenses currently aren't standard so they aren't a national ID card. The push for biometrics is not simply to thwart counterfeiting. That can be done without biometrics. (There aren't any biometrics in that $20 bill in your wallet after all). The key issue is the attempt to make the cards machine readable. Take the current situation of you showing your ID to get into a building. The guard can look at it and let you in or not. No loss of privacy. If he scans your ID he's created a record of your visit. The potential for this kind of abuse is enormous. Yes the government has ways to track people, but this takes it to a whole new level. You have the same problem with the "speed pass" cards some states issue for toll roads. Such information is already being used against people in court.

http://www.istockphoto.com/file_thumbview_approve/2634771/2/istockphoto_2634771-hitting-a-nail-on-the-head.jpg