Organisations that will support Ron Paul that are not affiliated with the campaign.

[BrianH]

I had a long conversation today with the someone well connected in the financial world. He had a call from someone who wanted to give a very large donation to the campaign but couldn't figure out how to do it legally. The main "loophole" that's available is called "bundling" where you essentially give to supporters who have not reached their maximum contribution and so they give it. It's sort of a grey area legally I think, and also rather tedious to do.

I said there must be organisations that can receive the funds and do some promotion of their own. Could people suggest some here?

I also wondered about the idea posted earlier today to hire a polling company to do a proper representation of Ron Paul's support base - many "moderates" and with no party affliation. Surely there must be a way to design a "scientific" poll that comes closer to representing the kind of results we're seeing in the straw polls.

That's one idea, but there must be lots. I will check Brits4RonPaul site again and find out who they were supporting. I'd like to start compiling a list of options for mega wealthy people to look at and think how they could support with large donations to a project that was not directly affiliated with the Ron Paul official campaign. It's a hot issue and I understand HQ of RP campaign cannot even talk to people who are thinking about these questions as it is so touchy legally. There are a lot of very wealthy investors that really like Ron Paul.

What I would REALLY love is there was some way there could a legal non-profit which could meet-up groups could make proposals to for projects - but I don't think there is a legal way to do this. But I am just putting it out there in case someone has a great solution or idea

[bbachtung]

Traditional bundling is NOT about illegally funneling money in excess of contribution limits (or at least it is not supposed to be); it is about one person convincing a bunch of his rich buddies to give to the campaign. This guy should call all of his business contacts and encourage them to donate up to the maximum.

There are certainly those who illegally bundle, including funnelling money to their employees (many of whom are not registered to vote or not politically active); no one really talks about it because the people who receive this money usually end up in power.

[stevedasbach]

I had a long conversation today with the someone well connected in the financial world. He had a call from someone who wanted to give a very large donation to the campaign but couldn't figure out how to do it legally. The main "loophole" that's available is called "bundling" where you essentially give to supporters who have not reached their maximum contribution and so they give it. It's sort of a grey area legally I think, and also rather tedious to do.

What you decribe above isn't a grey area -- it is absolutely ILLEGAL. It also isn't bundling. Bundling is when someone (the bundler) collects checks from other people and sends them in together to the campaign.

[constituent]

^he could donate to any number of causes including ron paul radio (PR, equip. and full-time support staff), the ron paul riders (PR and full-time support staff), the commercial project i'm about to have coming up (basically funding the expense of shooting the commercials for now, great price w/ friendly media co., contact me for scripts), and the Shop Freedom program.

[TVMH]

Sounds like the best route would be a PAC.

Where's OptionsTrader? :)

[ItsTime]

pac pac pac pac..... and get him on the phone with his friends

[stevedasbach]

PACs are also limited. If he wants to make a very large donation, he can do so as an independent expenditure (e.g. run ads). However, they can't be ads from the campaign. If he spends more than $1000, he has to file a report with the FEC.

[partypooper]

I also wondered about the idea posted earlier today to hire a polling company to do a proper representation of Ron Paul's support base - many "moderates" and with no party affliation. Surely there must be a way to design a "scientific" poll that comes closer to representing the kind of results we're seeing in the straw polls.

don't do this. it will be very expensive and you will get the same results as with the other polls. whomever you should hire is there to give you the real results, not to confirm our hopes.

i have done some surveys (of the scientific i.e. "scientific" kind) myself (i have a graduate degree from harvard in statistics) and in principle i know how to do this but it is a very big project and the results will be disappointing (e.g. the same as those we already heard).

[ronpaulyourmom]

I had a long conversation today with the someone well connected in the financial world. He had a call from someone who wanted to give a very large donation to the campaign but couldn't figure out how to do it legally. The main "loophole" that's available is called "bundling" where you essentially give to supporters who have not reached their maximum contribution and so they give it. It's sort of a grey area legally I think, and also rather tedious to do.

I said there must be organisations that can receive the funds and do some promotion of their own. Could people suggest some here?

I also wondered about the idea posted earlier today to hire a polling company to do a proper representation of Ron Paul's support base - many "moderates" and with no party affliation. Surely there must be a way to design a "scientific" poll that comes closer to representing the kind of results we're seeing in the straw polls.

That's one idea, but there must be lots. I will check Brits4RonPaul site again and find out who they were supporting. I'd like to start compiling a list of options for mega wealthy people to look at and think how they could support with large donations to a project that was not directly affiliated with the Ron Paul official campaign. It's a hot issue and I understand HQ of RP campaign cannot even talk to people who are thinking about these questions as it is so touchy legally. There are a lot of very wealthy investors that really like Ron Paul.

What I would REALLY love is there was some way there could a legal non-profit which could meet-up groups could make proposals to for projects - but I don't think there is a legal way to do this. But I am just putting it out there in case someone has a great solution or idea

http://www.operationnh.com/
http://www.ronpaulgraphs.com/chipin.html

Maybe he could donate to the chipins listed on these two websites. I also have a project that I'm working on in which they could pay to advertise Ron Paul inside of video games.

[ronpaulyourmom]

http://www.operationnh.com/
http://www.ronpaulgraphs.com/chipin.html

Maybe he could donate to the chipins listed on these two websites. I also have a project that I'm working on in which they could pay to advertise Ron Paul inside of video games.

One idea by the way, might to setup some political action committees (PAC). Each PAC could setup a basic website to collect funds from individuals, and these PACs can donate 5k to the official campaign and then expend the rest by donating to the types of projects listed above or directly by conducting advertising.

Each wealthy person could then donate up to $5,000 each PAC, increasing their ability to influence the campaign. I would imagine that it's important that these PAC's operate independent of each other, but I don't know for sure. In either event though, we could have a website that lists all known Ron Paul PAC's and that would certainly not be collusive in nature. Here's how it would all play out...

- Form five PAC's.
- Get 10 wealthly people to donate $5000 to each registered PAC.
- Each PAC donates $5000 to the official campaign, and spends the rest on advertising.
--------------------------------------------------------
$25,000 donated by 10 individuals.
$50,000 collected by each of the five PACs.
$5,000 * 5 = $25,000 funds sent directly to Ron Paul PCC
$45,000 * 5 = $225,000 left for advertising.

Total spent on behalf of Ron Paul: $250,000 raised by 10 people.

We already know of two PAC's that have been established, one by Lord Xar and the other by skiingf. All that would be required for this to work would be to establish 3 other PAC's.

I'm not a lawyer...all my knowledge comes from wikipedia and I could have very easily overlooked something. Do not take this as legal advice, thanks.

[BrianH]

These are all great suggestions -- thanks! And keep them coming. He's asked me to keep working on it. The one person he spoke to wanted to know how to legally spend 200K to promote Ron Paul. There must be lots of people like him. He thought it was a difficult problem but I want to talk to a few people tommorrow and see what can they think. We can't ask anyone connected officially to the Ron Paul Campaign that much I know - they wont talk. PM me if you prefer if you have some specific ideas - I got 4 pms already - thanks!

[RonPaulCentral]

Hey everyone -- I have not looked into it -- so before I research it I figured someone here might know.

Reference this individual that wants to donate this money ....

Are their any limits to the number of PACs one can form? If there isn't couldn't they by theory form 40 PAC's ???

I also don't know how time consuming the formation process is... if forming 40 PACs is as easy as filing 40 forms... that might be the answer.

I really know nothing about forming PACs so everyone, PLEASE BE NICE. :D

[me3]

Why not contact the FEC tomorrow and ask them directly?

It's always best to get information from the source. Just make sure you keep track of who you spoke to, if you need to reference back to it later.

[ChooseLiberty]

If your friend and his friends have a lot of money to donate why not contact an attorney familiar with the campaign law? Not only could they tell him all the legal implications, a specialist would probably have a laundry list of legal and effective options available.

Good luck. I'm sure there are many people out there like this.

[johnscr]

Hey everyone -- I have not looked into it -- so before I research it I figured someone here might know.

Reference this individual that wants to donate this money ....

Are their any limits to the number of PACs one can form? If there isn't couldn't they by theory form 40 PAC's ???

I also don't know how time consuming the formation process is... if forming 40 PACs is as easy as filing 40 forms... that might be the answer.

I really know nothing about forming PACs so everyone, PLEASE BE NICE. :D

Heh. Not surprisingly, they thought of that. PAC's that have overlapping executives or make similar contributions are considered affliated and the contribution limits would apply across them.

[uncle saddam]

FEC toll-free line for questions about federal campaign finance law:

(800) 424-9530

(202) 694-1100 (Local - D.C.)

...and FEC .pdf on 'Nonconnected Committees:'

http://www.fec.gov/pdf/nongui.pdf

[ronpaulyourmom]

Heh. Not surprisingly, they thought of that. PAC's that have overlapping executives or make similar contributions are considered affliated and the contribution limits would apply across them.

The Ron Paul grassroots is so large that this really shouldn't be an issue for us. We can easily have 10+ decentralized PAC's out there acting on their own. Anybody who has already setup a PAC, perhaps you can tell us how easy / hard the process is.

Anybody who knows of existing PACs, please list them for us.

[Tidewise]

How about someone with some BALLS and MONEY file a declaratory relief action against the FEC because the FEC is violating core political speech protected by the FIRST AMENDMENT! The Supreme Court is highly fractured on this issue with Scalia and Thomas (of course) calling McCain-Feingold an UNCONSTITUTIONAL infringement of free speech.

Ron Paul is the classic example of how this law - which is supposed to prevent corporate influence on elections - is having the perverse, opposite effect by preventing willing individuals from giving to Ron Paul more than the pittance this putative law allows.



I am a lawyer, and I will work for free on that case.

[paulicywonk]

One thing that it occurs to me that you could do is to have your friend network with some of the people who he knows in his circles. Half of successful fundraising is reaching out to people in your network and convincing them to come on board. We need some more high level giving to the campaign to boost our numbers.

[AdamT]

The PACs I'm aware of by members of RPF.

Americans United For Freedom PAC (http://www.unitedforliberty.com/) (Lord Xar/Dean)
Americans United For Liberty PAC (http://unitedforfreedom.us) (Skiingff/Brandon Lloyd)
The American Liberty Coalition PAC (http://alcpac.com) (AdamT/Chris Rye)

Individuals can donate $5000/year to a non-connected PAC.

[ronpaulyourmom]

The PACs I'm aware of by members of RPF.

Americans United For Freedom PAC (http://www.unitedforliberty.com/) (Lord Xar/Dean)
Americans United For Liberty PAC (http://unitedforfreedom.us) (Skiingff/Brandon Lloyd)
The American Liberty Coalition PAC (http://alcpac.com) (AdamT/Chris Rye)

Individuals can donate $5000/year to a non-connected PAC.

Hey Adam, how hard was it to setup the PAC in terms of paperwork?

Aloha from Milwaukee, btw. :)

[ronpaulyourmom]

How about someone with some BALLS and MONEY file a declaratory relief action against the FEC because the FEC is violating core political speech protected by the FIRST AMENDMENT! The Supreme Court is highly fractured on this issue with Scalia and Thomas (of course) calling McCain-Feingold an UNCONSTITUTIONAL infringement of free speech.

Ron Paul is the classic example of how this law - which is supposed to prevent corporate influence on elections - is having the perverse, opposite effect by preventing willing individuals from giving to Ron Paul more than the pittance this putative law allows.



I am a lawyer, and I will work for free on that case.

Somebody does need to do that... but if there's people out there with money right now we should focus on getting it to Ron Paul and maybe he'll take care of that one for us. :)

[Tidewise]

Somebody does need to do that... but if there's people out there with money right now we should focus on getting it to Ron Paul and maybe he'll take care of that one for us. :)
Agreed, we have very little time and need to put the money to the best use possible. Of course, as President, the only thing Paul could really do (aside from goading congress to repeal McCain-Feingold) would be to appoint more judges and Justices like Scalia and Thomas. I am pretty sure Ginsburg and Stevens won't make it another 4 years.

I think I will set up a PAC. Yeah, that's what I am going to do. :D

[born2drv]

Lord Xar is running a very good PAC from what I can tell, you may want to contact him.

Also I think it would be great to sponsor a poll from a reputable company like Gallup, Rassmussen, etc.... something that is favorable to the REAL demographics of voters....

like random telephone calls instead of just registered republicans and only those with landlines..... ask them if they plan to vote in the primary, which party, then which candidate, and who they voted previously if at all. Also gather things like age, gender, etc.

What we really need right now are 2 things:
1) More media attention and awareness of Ron Paul
2) Favorable polls from "REPUTABLE" agencies.

[Burns401]

Hey Adam, how hard was it to setup the PAC in terms of paperwork?

Aloha from Milwaukee, btw. :)

Hello, new poster here, but I am setting up a political committee. It is not horribly hard. There is some moderate amount of reading that needs to be completed however (FEC regs, etc.). Getting an FEIN for banking purposes is pretty much duck soup though.

[AdamT]

Hey Adam, how hard was it to setup the PAC in terms of paperwork?

Aloha from Milwaukee, btw. :)

It was pretty easy. Here's the info from the FEC site:


How do I start a nonconnected PAC?

Nonconnected PACs must register by filing FEC Form 1 (http://www.fec.gov/pdf/forms/fecfrm1.pdf) [PDF], Statement of Organization within 10 days after raising or spending in excess of $1,000 in connection with federal elections. Such PACs should download the Campaign Guide for Nonconnected Committees (http://www.fec.gov/pdf/nongui.pdf) [PDF] for more information on the laws that apply to them.

Feel free to PM me if you want more info. I would like to see a Wisconsin-specific PAC for organizing in the state and coordinating the state's Meetups. Also someone needs to do research on the delegate thing in WI and how exactly it works. I contacted the head of the GOP in my county but they were not exactly open to giving the info.

[BrianH]

I've located 3 PACs so far from this thread. Each can accept $5K from an individual. We need lots more!

Just found a page that lists current Chip-ins for Ron Paul - good for people that have maxed their contributions: http://splat.chowda.net/fundraiser/chipin.html

13 separate chipins listed, 6 PledgeBank ads listed

Done by dan at ron paul graphs

We need one of these for PACs and also spread this message to wealthy individuals