Man Calls For Bullet In Orrin hatch's Head / To Burn His House Down

[Immortal Technique]

YouTube - GiveUsOurMoney.org We Are Coming For Our Money-Unemployment Extension July (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bSb6Ik-HSCs)

Seen this over at a "democratic" board (D.U)
The guy is from a website called GiveUsOurMoney.org, demanding more unemployment benefits.
And it is the tea partiers that are angry and dangerous?

[specsaregood]

And it is the tea partiers that are angry and dangerous?
Well the difference is they don't have the guns to back it up, due to their own lobbying....

[angelatc]

Wow. It looks like Greek-like riots aren't too far over the horizon.

(Hmmm - unemployment lasts 2 years now. That baby didn't look 1 yet. Perhaps they should have planned things a little better.)

[michaelwise]

Those kind of people are just misguided, but for the people who really deserve it, well...

I just do the "Men Staring at Goats" thing to them cocksuckers. The power of prayers thing works. Not necessarily making their hearts explode thing, but giving them an aneurysm, stroke, or appearing to give them a natural death. That sort of thing. Like with Robert Byrd and Ted Kennedy.

[angelatc]

It appears that even though they are destitute, they're planning a trip to Washington on 7/12 to demand some more of our money.

[roho76]

WOW!!!!:eek::eek::eek:

Words can't even express what I just saw. Holy mother of God.

[TNforPaul45]

I understand times are hard for a lot of unemployed people. I am not callous to their feelings and fears.

But if they got this passionate about going out and finding work, any work, and not participating in this depression, then, well, you see my point.

They are angry that Government is not providing for them.

We will see a lot more of this soon. :(

[t0rnado]

They could be spending the time they're ranting on their computers finding jobs. Why the hell don't they just sell the computers they're editing and recording this on if they need money so badly.

Jobs are available, but these parasites feel that they are too good for a job at Burger King.

[newbitech]

They could be spending the time they're ranting on their computers finding jobs. Why the hell don't they just sell the computers they're editing and recording this on if they need money so badly.

Jobs are available, but these parasites feel that they are too good for a job at Burger King.


We are in a depression. the economy must reorganize. no one knows what the value of money is because we have been in a fake economy for at least 20 years.

Jobs are not available. whoever is telling you this is lying.

you are lumping a whole crap load of people into one category. Why?

[angelatc]

Jobs are not available. whoever is telling you this is lying.

?

Really? Because I have a ton of odd jobs that need to be done around my house, but for some reason $30 an hour is still the going rate.

[TNforPaul45]

We are in a depression. the economy must reorganize. no one knows what the value of money is because we have been in a fake economy for at least 20 years.

Jobs are not available. whoever is telling you this is lying.

you are lumping a whole crap load of people into one category. Why?

When jobs are not available, you innovate and create jobs, including ones for yourself.
I realize that not everyone in the population of the unemployed are able to do this.

But also, realize that the above is only possible in an economic environment where the Government does not get in the way of job creation and market innovation, which is what we have now.

[newbitech]

Really? Because I have a ton of odd jobs that need to be done around my house, but for some reason $30 an hour is still the going rate.

sorry, but tons of odd jobs around peoples houses does not reorganize an economy of a nation of 300 million people. Not to mention that we are due for another leg down here in the capital markets where even more jobs are going to be lost.

30 bucks an hour? Like I said, no one knows what the value of money is because we have been living in a fake economy for the last 20 years at least.

[newbitech]

When jobs are not available, you innovate and create jobs, including ones for yourself.
I realize that not everyone in the population of the unemployed are able to do this.

But also, realize that the above is only possible in an economic environment where the Government does not get in the way of job creation and market innovation, which is what we have now.

yes, this is what will happen. But in the mean time...

I ran out of UI too. Believe me, I worked my ass off doing the odd jobs. Still do. It doesn't cover it.

I have to find people who need real work done. And by real work, I mean production of a good or service that is in demand. Only a few services I know of are in demand right now that 500 other people don't have the skill to compete with me. And producing goods? I have lucked out and found a few innovators.

I can't survive on luck forever. I need the economy to reorganize and for people with capital to start investing in production again.

[t0rnado]

We are in a depression. the economy must reorganize. no one knows what the value of money is because we have been in a fake economy for at least 20 years.

Jobs are not available. whoever is telling you this is lying.

you are lumping a whole crap load of people into one category. Why?

http://www.mcstate.com/careers/

I see lots of jobs there.

[TNforPaul45]

yes, this is what will happen. But in the mean time...

I ran out of UI too. Believe me, I worked my ass off doing the odd jobs. Still do. It doesn't cover it.

I have to find people who need real work done. And by real work, I mean production of a good or service that is in demand. Only a few services I know of are in demand right now that 500 other people don't have the skill to compete with me. And producing goods? I have lucked out and found a few innovators.

I can't survive on luck forever. I need the economy to reorganize and for people with capital to start investing in production again.

Investment with Capital is absolutely the key newbitech. To quote Clinton, "I feel your pain."

It is frustrating as hell when there are so many eager workers, and artificially restricted opportunities for work.

Right now the only thing that our Capital is being (involuntairly) invested in is foreign wars and bailouts for financial elites.

[TNforPaul45]

From McState Website:

http://www.mcstate.com/careers/jobs/2526


Position:
Hourly Manager
As an hourly Floor Manager Trainee, you will spend up to four months learning our business in order to gain a high experience and competency level. After successful completion of this phase, you will advance to Shift Manager, earn a pay increase, and continue to climb the ladder of opportunity. Trainees with the best and most flexible shift availablity will be consider first for advancement opportunities.

Looks like McState needs to hire a proofreader themselves.

[akforme]

I can't get anyone to work in my town, they are all on government assistance, they don't need to make any money.

[newbitech]

http://www.mcstate.com/careers/

I see lots of jobs there.

no you don't... you are trying to be funny, or just repeating the meme. either way, its a joke and if you believe what our country needs is more golden arches, then you are simply out of touch.

[angelatc]

sorry, but tons of odd jobs around peoples houses does not reorganize an economy of a nation of 300 million people..

Sorry, but it does create a starting point. The market will organize itself when it is allowed to move.

[newbitech]

Sorry, but it does create a starting point. The market will organize itself when it is allowed to move.

for a few people sure. I am not discounting that. The problem is, the people who are unemployed are people with skills that cannot be used.

People will get by and survive, just like in the last depression. Unfortunately tho, this time around, people don't have the same survival skills. These are the desperate ones who will wreak havoc in our cities once the welfare spigot is turned off.

This is what happens when a fake economy is propped up for 20+ years. People forget how to live.

Makes it real tough on the honest folks who do understand what their time is worth and refuse to trade it in for something that is worth far less.

UI is a joke because it doesn't come close to covering the necessities.

I collected max UI and used the money to start a business so that when the UI ran out, I'd have way to get some extra cash without having to rely on craigslist or knocking on doors all day long to find side jobs.

I will make my fate, survive, and hopefully be in the right place to cash in on the street when this economy does encourage real growth again. Whatever that might be, cause I haven't been alive long enough to know what real growth in the macro economy looks like. I'm 33, this is my second recession, and second successful business.

[angelatc]

Makes it real tough on the honest folks who do understand what their time is worth and refuse to trade it in for something that is worth far less.

The market determines worth.

[newbitech]

The market determines worth.

i am the market ;)

[lynnf]

http://www.mcstate.com/careers/

I see lots of jobs there.

ha, you fell for that one! just because you see a job advertised, doesn't mean there is a job there. there are lots of vapor jobs out there. some companies advertise for jobs that don't exist just to keep their name out there in the market.
some places have authorization to advertise a job, but don't have authorization to actually hire someone. and when they interview, the hire never materializes. and some places advertise jobs just to see what kind of market is out there for statistical purposes -- there is no real job.

think again when you think just because a job is advertised that there actually is one. fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me.

lynn

[GunnyFreedom]

I've seen with my own eyes when a new dollar store project opens and five positions will be created, there are literally 5000 people applying for those 5 minimum-wage jobs. It's really not like people are not willing to take minimum wage jobs when 5000 people show up to apply for 5 openings. That said, government is still clearly the problem.

[t0rnado]

no you don't... you are trying to be funny, or just repeating the meme. either way, its a joke and if you believe what our country needs is more golden arches, then you are simply out of touch.

You're complaining that I'm placing people on unemployment in the same category as lazy people who feel entitled and won't take jobs that are too lowly for them. Show me where I stated our country needs more McDonalds. Your profile says you're in Tampa, so have you bothered applying to any of these open job positions you're telling me that don't exist:


Type Position Location
Mgmt Hourly Manager 6013 East Dr Martin Luther, Tampa, FL
Mgmt Hourly Manager 6717 N. Dale Mabry Hwy, Tampa, FL
Mgmt SMT (fast track GM program) 4443 W. Kennedy, Tampa, FL
Crew Late Night Crew 2101 E. 13th Avenue, Tampa, FL
Crew Crew 4333 W. Hillsborough Ave., Tampa, FL
Mgmt SMT (fast track GM program) 10410 N. Dale Mabry, Tampa, FL
Mgmt Hourly Manager 4333 W. Hillsborough Ave., Tampa, FL
Mgmt Salaried Manager Trainee 11707 N. 56th St., Tampa, FL
Mgmt Salaried Manager Trainee 2205 E. Fletcher Ave., Tampa, FL
Mgmt Shift Management 165 W. Shore Plz, Tampa, FL
Mgmt Hourly Manager 5393 Ehrlich Rd., Tampa, FL
Mgmt Assistant Manager 12205 W. Linebaugh Ave., Tampa, FL
Crew Crew Position 165 W. Shore Plz, Tampa, FL
Mgmt SMT (fast track GM program) 3411 Busch Blvd., Tampa, FL
Crew Crew 17757 North Dale Mabry Highway , Tampa, FL
Mgmt SMT (fast track GM program) 1908 E. Hillsborough Ave., Tampa, FL
Mgmt Salaried Manager Trainee 6505 S. Dale Mabry Dr., Tampa, FL
Mgmt SMT (fast track GM program) 1002 S. 78th St., Tampa, FL
Crew Crew 5101 Pointe of Tampa Way, Tampa, FL
Mgmt Hourly Manager 920 E. Fowler Ave., Tampa, FL
Crew Crew 8214 N. Florida Ave., Tampa, FL
Crew Crew Position 1520 W. Kennedy Blvd., Tampa, FL
Mgmt Salaried Manager Trainee 926 W. Fletcher Ave., Tampa, FL
Mgmt Salaried Manager Trainee 6013 East Dr Martin Luther, Tampa, FL
Mgmt Hourly Manager 926 W. Fletcher Ave., Tampa, FL
Mgmt Hourly Manager 15698 N. Dale Mabry, Tampa, FL
Mgmt SMT (fast track GM program) 1905 N. Dale Mabry Hwy, Tampa, FL
Support Part Time Maintenance/ Custodial 501 E. Dr. M. L. K. Jr. Dr., Tampa, FL
Mgmt Manager Trainee 165 W. Shore Plz, Tampa, FL
Mgmt Hourly Manager 6192 Gunn Hwy, Tampa, FL
Mgmt Management 2101 E. 13th Avenue, Tampa, FL
Mgmt Salaried Manager Trainee 17757 North Dale Mabry Highway , Tampa, FL
Crew Crew 4009 N. Armenia, Tampa, FL
Crew Crew 920 E. Fowler Ave., Tampa, FL
Mgmt Hourly Manager 11707 N. 56th St., Tampa, FL
Mgmt Hourly Manager 7350 W. Waters Ave., Tampa, FL
Mgmt Store Manager in Training 8002 Citrus Park Dr., Tampa, FL
Mgmt Hourly Manager 4443 W. Kennedy, Tampa, FL
Crew Crew Member 5393 Ehrlich Rd., Tampa, FL
Crew Crew Member 8002 Citrus Park Dr., Tampa, FL
Mgmt Salaried Manager Trainee 7350 W. Waters Ave., Tampa, FL
Mgmt Salaried Manager Trainee 501 E. Dr. M. L. K. Jr. Dr., Tampa, FL
Mgmt Hourly Managers 2101 E. 13th Avenue, Tampa, FL
Mgmt Shift Management 3315 S. Dale Mabry, Tampa, FL
Mgmt Salaried Manager Trainee 4333 W. Hillsborough Ave., Tampa, FL
Mgmt SMT (fast track GM program) 7350 W. Waters Ave., Tampa, FL
Crew Crew 2006 50th St., Tampa, FL
Support Part Time Maintenance/ Custodial 4009 N. Armenia, Tampa, FL
Mgmt Hourly Manager 4009 N. Armenia, Tampa, FL
Mgmt SMT (fast track GM program) 2 Columbia Dr., Tampa, FL
Mgmt Hourly Manager 1908 E. Hillsborough Ave., Tampa, FL
Mgmt Hourly Manager 4818 S. Manhattan, Tampa, FL
Mgmt SMT (fast track GM program) 926 W. Fletcher Ave., Tampa, FL
Mgmt Salaried Manager Trainee 4443 W. Kennedy, Tampa, FL
Mgmt SMT (fast track GM program) 4818 S. Manhattan, Tampa, FL
Mgmt Salaried Manager Trainee 2 Columbia Dr., Tampa, FL
Crew Maintenance/Custodial 3315 S. Dale Mabry, Tampa, FL
Mgmt Manager Trainee 1520 W. Kennedy Blvd., Tampa, FL
Crew Crew 2 Columbia Dr., Tampa, FL
Mgmt Assistant Manager 6192 Gunn Hwy, Tampa, FL
Crew Crew 3411 Busch Blvd., Tampa, FL
Crew Crew 1908 E. Hillsborough Ave., Tampa, FL
Mgmt SMT (fast track GM program) 8214 N. Florida Ave., Tampa, FL
Mgmt Salaried Manager Trainee 4818 S. Manhattan, Tampa, FL
Crew Crew Position 3315 S. Dale Mabry, Tampa, FL
Mgmt SMT (fast track GM program) 10019 Adamo Drive, Tampa, FL
Crew Crew 6717 N. Dale Mabry Hwy, Tampa, FL
Mgmt SMT (fast track GM program) 104 W. Bearss Ave., Tampa, FL
Mgmt Store Manager in Training 6192 Gunn Hwy, Tampa, FL
Mgmt SMT (fast track GM program) 501 E. Dr. M. L. K. Jr. Dr., Tampa, FL
Crew Crew 501 E. Dr. M. L. K. Jr. Dr., Tampa, FL
Mgmt Salaried Manager Trainee 6717 N. Dale Mabry Hwy, Tampa, FL
Crew Crew 2205 E. Fletcher Ave., Tampa, FL
Mgmt Hourly Manager 2006 50th St., Tampa, FL
Support Part Time Maintenance/ Custodial 4443 W. Kennedy, Tampa, FL
Mgmt Hourly Manager 1905 N. Dale Mabry Hwy, Tampa, FL
Mgmt Salaried Manager Trainee 1908 E. Hillsborough Ave., Tampa, FL
Crew Crew- Openers/Dayshift 6717 N. Dale Mabry Hwy, Tampa, FL
Mgmt Salaried Manager Trainee 7909 W Hillsboro Avenue, Tampa, FL
Crew Crew 10019 Adamo Drive, Tampa, FL
Mgmt Store Manager In Training (SMT fast-track) 165 W. Shore Plz, Tampa, FL
Mgmt Hourly Manager 104 W. Bearss Ave., Tampa, FL
Crew Maintenance/Custodial 2 Columbia Dr., Tampa, FL
Crew Maintenance/Custodial 17757 North Dale Mabry Highway , Tampa, FL
Mgmt Hourly Manager 1002 S. 78th St., Tampa, FL
Mgmt Salaried Manager Trainee 4009 N. Armenia, Tampa, FL
Crew Crew 7909 W Hillsboro Avenue, Tampa, FL
Crew Crew 10410 N. Dale Mabry, Tampa, FL
Mgmt SMT (fast track GM program) 15698 N. Dale Mabry, Tampa, FL
Mgmt Salaried Manager Trainee 3411 Busch Blvd., Tampa, FL
Mgmt SMT (fast track GM program) 6013 East Dr Martin Luther, Tampa, FL
Mgmt Salaried Manager Trainee 920 E. Fowler Ave., Tampa, FL
Mgmt SMT (fast track GM program) 4333 W. Hillsborough Ave., Tampa, FL
Mgmt Hourly Manager 12205 W. Linebaugh Ave., Tampa, FL
Mgmt Store Manager in Training 12205 W. Linebaugh Ave., Tampa, FL
Mgmt Hourly Manager 6505 S. Dale Mabry Dr., Tampa, FL
Mgmt SMT (fast track GM program) 920 E. Fowler Ave., Tampa, FL
Crew Crew 1002 S. 78th St., Tampa, FL
Mgmt Store Manager In Training (SMT fast-track) 3315 S. Dale Mabry, Tampa, FL
Crew Crew Member 12205 W. Linebaugh Ave., Tampa, FL
Crew Part Time Maintenance/ Custodial 3315 S. Dale Mabry, Tampa, FL
Mgmt SMT (fast track GM program) 11707 N. 56th St., Tampa, FL
Mgmt Salaried Manager Trainee 6906 N. 56th St., Tampa, FL
Mgmt Hourly Manager 2 Columbia Dr., Tampa, FL
Mgmt SMT (fast track GM program) 2205 E. Fletcher Ave., Tampa, FL
Mgmt Salaried Manager Trainee 10019 Adamo Drive, Tampa, FL
Crew Crew 104 W. Bearss Ave., Tampa, FL
Mgmt Salaried Manager Trainee 10410 N. Dale Mabry, Tampa, FL
Mgmt SMT (fast track GM program) 6717 N. Dale Mabry Hwy, Tampa, FL
Mgmt Salaried Manager Trainee 15698 N. Dale Mabry, Tampa, FL
Support Part Time Maintenance/ Custodial 4818 S. Manhattan, Tampa, FL
Mgmt Salaried Manager Trainee 104 W. Bearss Ave., Tampa, FL
Mgmt Store Manager in Training 5393 Ehrlich Rd., Tampa, FL
Crew Crew 11707 N. 56th St., Tampa, FL
Mgmt SMT (fast track GM program) 7909 W Hillsboro Avenue, Tampa, FL
Mgmt SMT (fast track GM program) 6906 N. 56th St., Tampa, FL
Mgmt SMT (fast track GM program) 6505 S. Dale Mabry Dr., Tampa, FL
Mgmt Hourly Manager 501 E. Dr. M. L. K. Jr. Dr., Tampa, FL
Mgmt Hourly Manager 3411 Busch Blvd., Tampa, FL
Mgmt Salaried Manager Trainee 1905 N. Dale Mabry Hwy, Tampa, FL
Crew Crew 1905 N. Dale Mabry Hwy, Tampa, FL
Mgmt Assistant Manager 5393 Ehrlich Rd., Tampa, FL
Crew Crew Member 6192 Gunn Hwy, Tampa, FL
Crew Crew 6906 N. 56th St., Tampa, FL
Mgmt Hourly Manager 8214 N. Florida Ave., Tampa, FL
Crew Crew 15698 N. Dale Mabry, Tampa, FL
Crew Crew 926 W. Fletcher Ave., Tampa, FL
Crew Crew 4443 W. Kennedy, Tampa, FL
Mgmt Hourly Manager 10410 N. Dale Mabry, Tampa, FL
Mgmt Store Manager In Training (SMT fast-track) 1520 W. Kennedy Blvd., Tampa, FL
Mgmt SMT (fast track GM program) 4009 N. Armenia, Tampa, FL
Mgmt Salaried Manager Trainee 2006 50th St., Tampa, FL
Mgmt Hourly Manager 7909 W Hillsboro Avenue, Tampa, FL
Crew Cashiers 2101 E. 13th Avenue, Tampa, FL
Mgmt Manager Trainee 3315 S. Dale Mabry, Tampa, FL
Mgmt SMT (fast track GM program) 2006 50th St., Tampa, FL
Crew Crew 6013 East Dr Martin Luther, Tampa, FL
Mgmt Salaried Manager Trainee 1002 S. 78th St., Tampa, FL
Mgmt Hourly Manager 10019 Adamo Drive, Tampa, FL
Mgmt Hourly Manager 8002 Citrus Park Dr., Tampa, FL
Crew Crew 4818 S. Manhattan, Tampa, FL
Mgmt Hourly Manager 6906 N. 56th St., Tampa, FL
Crew Crew 19080 Bruce B. Downs Blvd, Tampa, FL
Mgmt Salaried Manager Trainee 8214 N. Florida Ave., Tampa, FL
Crew Crew 7350 W. Waters Ave., Tampa, FL
Crew Crew 6505 S. Dale Mabry Dr., Tampa, FL
Mgmt Hourly Manager 2205 E. Fletcher Ave., Tampa, FL
Mgmt Shift Management 1520 W. Kennedy Blvd., Tampa, FL
Crew Maintenance/Custodial 4009 N. Armenia, Tampa, FL
Mgmt Assistant Manager 8002 Citrus Park Dr., Tampa, FL

[t0rnado]

ha, you fell for that one! just because you see a job advertised, doesn't mean there is a job there. there are lots of vapor jobs out there. some companies advertise for jobs that don't exist just to keep their name out there in the market.
some places have authorization to advertise a job, but don't have authorization to actually hire someone. and when they interview, the hire never materializes. and some places advertise jobs just to see what kind of market is out there for statistical purposes -- there is no real job.

think again when you think just because a job is advertised that there actually is one. fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me.

lynn

Is the excuse people on unemployment should use? Because some job advertisements MIGHT not materialize, they shouldn't apply to any jobs at all?

Generally when a job is advertised, it exists.

[osan]

They are angry that Government is not providing for them.

Dead wrong. They are angry that they are not getting that to which they feel they are ENTITLED. They don't give half a shit who provides it.

May I also point out that YOU are "Government". Government does not exist apart and separately from you. Or me. Or Anyone.

You folks really do need to pop your heads out of your butts and get with a program because you all seem to keep making this single, fatal, and most significant error. There is no such thing as "government" except as a set of ideas in the minds of individuals. Until you wrap your heads around this truth and those that follow from it most axiomatically, the cause of freedom will go absolutely nowhere. Of this I assure you.

I feel this needs to be discussed extensively, gotten straight, and spread from one end of the nation to the other. Without it, the shred of freedom remaining to us is doomed.


We will see a lot more of this soon. :(On this we violently agree.

[JeNNiF00F00]

..

[osan]

ha, you fell for that one! just because you see a job advertised, doesn't mean there is a job there. there are lots of vapor jobs out there. some companies advertise for jobs that don't exist just to keep their name out there in the market.

It is inexpensive advertising. So-called "wired" jobs are common, usually due to GOVERNMENT REGULATION - EEO and all that bullshit. If a company wants to hire internally, they also may be required to put out a broader ad for the position in order to avoid "appearances". Appearances of what? Of wanting competent, known quantities? What evil!

[osan]

I've seen with my own eyes when a new dollar store project opens and five positions will be created, there are literally 5000 people applying for those 5 minimum-wage jobs. It's really not like people are not willing to take minimum wage jobs when 5000 people show up to apply for 5 openings. That said, government is still clearly the problem.

"Government" is only a symptom of the real problem, which is closer to fascism - more than just "government" - a culture and a mindset that radiates from the originating source to the rest of a population.

Our economy is in the toilet because of the manipulations whose origins in concept and execution are the elite interests that are forwarded via the corporate extensions of their persons that confer upon them great material and psychological powers - enormous leverage.

Make no mistake about it, the United States is a full-throttle fascist organization at this point. To deny this is to deny reality in even the smallest measure. That certain overt technical elements may be missing is irrelevant. That counts is that "they" are achieving the goals of control and "we" are doing precious little to stop them. We could stop them, but we aren't, so in truth there is no difference because the result is the same - total control over the herd in every way that counts.

[angelatc]

i am the market ;)

No, you're the commodity in this example. I remember when gas was worth $5.00 a gallon, but that has absolutely no bearing on what the guy at the corner can charge today.

[angelatc]

And as for the Mcdonalds positions, you can't live off of a mcdonalds position in Tampa. The cost of living is high compared to other places. You would have to have 3 jobs at least in order to just get by.

Or get 2 roommates, which is what I did when I lived in Tampa Bay and made minimum wage.

McDonald's pays their management trainees more than minimum wage.

They promote from within. I know a woman who started working on the line in high school. These days she and her fellow employee (now spouse) own 3 McDonalds franchises.

[angelatc]

It is inexpensive advertising. So-called "wired" jobs are common, usually due to GOVERNMENT REGULATION - EEO and all that bullshit. If a company wants to hire internally, they also may be required to put out a broader ad for the position in order to avoid "appearances". Appearances of what? Of wanting competent, known quantities? What evil!

They also do it in order to keep their resume file fresh, in case management decides they want to look through it.

[MelissaWV]

We are in a depression. the economy must reorganize. no one knows what the value of money is because we have been in a fake economy for at least 20 years.

Jobs are not available. whoever is telling you this is lying.

you are lumping a whole crap load of people into one category. Why?

I went to www.indeed.com and searched for all jobs in Tampa, FL. There were only 32,569.

Youngsville, NC yielded 20,195.


ha, you fell for that one! just because you see a job advertised, doesn't mean there is a job there. there are lots of vapor jobs out there. some companies advertise for jobs that don't exist just to keep their name out there in the market.
some places have authorization to advertise a job, but don't have authorization to actually hire someone. and when they interview, the hire never materializes. and some places advertise jobs just to see what kind of market is out there for statistical purposes -- there is no real job.

think again when you think just because a job is advertised that there actually is one. fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me.

lynn

And on the flipside, temp agencies and other placement companies do not advertise all the jobs that are available. In fact, companies with multiple openings often advertise "samplings" of what's available. You might find that you submit your resume for one job, but interview and get a totally different one within the company. Have you never gone to a job website and found a job you liked, only to be redirected to the employer's website? If you look at the "careers" section, you will often see more jobs there than were on the job website you started on.

As for the McDonald's debate, the original contention was that there were no jobs. Then it was that there were no good jobs, or jobs that paid enough. Now it's that the jobs might not exist.

This only reinforces the assertion that a LOT of the people out there on unemployment could stand to re-evaluate how they're going about the job hunt.

Or are you going to tell me that, even though there are literally tens of thousands of jobs out there, the guy in the video can't do a single one? His spouse can't? They seem like they're still forking over a monthly bill for internet, and they certainly have enough money to have another kid....

[GunnyFreedom]

To be fair, I would be surprised to hear that Youngsville, NC has over 1,000 residents...

They must be pulling listings from Raleigh to get those kinds of numbers. Raleigh, on the other hand, is much larger at about half a million.

It also doesn't stop what I've seen with my own eyes: 5000 people lining up to apply for 5 minimum wage clerking jobs. I've seen it, I can't un-see it.

I agree that in PART some jobseekers are not looking very hard. Also doesn't stop people from applying for jobs just to check a box on their unemployment claim. But the problem out there is indeed worse than most are giving credit for.

[specsaregood]

This only reinforces the assertion that a LOT of the people out there on unemployment could stand to re-evaluate how they're going about the job hunt.

Or are you going to tell me that, even though there are literally tens of thousands of jobs out there, the guy in the video can't do a single one? His spouse can't? They seem like they're still forking over a monthly bill for internet, and they certainly have enough money to have another kid....

From what I understand, If you take a job, you lose your unemployment benefits. So why take a lower paying job as long as you are still getting free money and can hold out hope for a better paying job. Cut those unemployment benefits and they'll start taking up those jobs, quickly.

[osan]

I've seen it, I can't un-see it.

Great line.

[GunnyFreedom]

From what I understand, If you take a job, you lose your unemployment benefits. So why take a lower paying job as long as you are still getting free money and can hold out hope for a better paying job. Cut those unemployment benefits and they'll start taking up those jobs, quickly.

That too, yes. I've heard people say that in my hearing a dozen times, and they were the person in that situation.

[MelissaWV]

From what I understand, If you take a job, you lose your unemployment benefits. So why take a lower paying job as long as you are still getting free money and can hold out hope for a better paying job. Cut those unemployment benefits and they'll start taking up those jobs, quickly.

Yes, it's hard to do the right thing when you're being bribed (with your own money, no less) to do otherwise.

Those are all factors.

Add "the commute would be too long" to the list of reasons not to find a job (I had forgotten that one, Gunny).

None of these amounts to "there just aren't any jobs" but, instead, add up to "there just aren't any jobs... that I feel like working."

[JeNNiF00F00]

..

[JeNNiF00F00]

..

[GunnyFreedom]

Yes, it's hard to do the right thing when you're being bribed (with your own money, no less) to do otherwise.

Those are all factors.

Add "the commute would be too long" to the list of reasons not to find a job (I had forgotten that one, Gunny).

None of these amounts to "there just aren't any jobs" but, instead, add up to "there just aren't any jobs... that I feel like working."

Well, as an independent jobber, I've driven 7hrs round trip three times for a single $1200 job, and everywhere I have gone looks just as bleak.

One of the things I do more often than others, is to install the POS system for a store "turn up" which is most often a new location that is going to open for the first time.

If you live in Youngsville, you just accept that you will have to drive 45 minutes to Raleigh to work. It's always been that way. Why would people be OK with the commute before the crash, (and when gas was $4 a gallon) but now they say it's too long to commute when jobs are desperate and gas is down to $2.60? It doesn't make sense.

I, for one, am NOT saying that we need to extend unemployment benefits further than they are already extended. However, the bottom line is there are absolutely NOT thousands of open jobs out there waiting for people to take. There are just not.

Sure, it would sound cliché for me to say that I am in a unique position to know, but in fact I am. Most of the jobs I get now (since I told them I will be spendig most of my time running for State House) are new store turn ups and I can see with my own eyes how the people are beating down the doors to ask for work. I can see the compassion and sadness (not to mention dread for all the filtering work they will have to do) in the managers eyes as she or he tells me they have collected 4500 applications to fill a mere 10 positions.

No way will extending unemployment benefits fix the situation, and will probably continue to make it worse, but at the same time most of those job listings have either got to be gossamers, or they pretty much get filled instantly on account of (from what I have directly observed) 500 active (and desperate) applicants for every single open minimum wage position.

And that includes fast food places. I fix/install Hardees, Applebees, Wendy's, BigLots, Dollar Tree, GameStop and more. I do them pretty much over the entire eastern half of NC, so my experience is not confined to just one small area. Every new store turn up I have done in the last 18 months has been the exact same story. 500 or more applicants for every single minimum wage opening.

I promise you I am not making this up, nor am I doing the sour grapes thing as I am not the one looking for work.

[Pizzo]

Shouldn't their organization be called GiveUsOtherPeoplesMoney.org?

[TNforPaul45]

Dead wrong. They are angry that they are not getting that to which they feel they are ENTITLED. They don't give half a shit who provides it.

May I also point out that YOU are "Government". Government does not exist apart and separately from you. Or me. Or Anyone.

You folks really do need to pop your heads out of your butts and get with a program because you all seem to keep making this single, fatal, and most significant error. There is no such thing as "government" except as a set of ideas in the minds of individuals. Until you wrap your heads around this truth and those that follow from it most axiomatically, the cause of freedom will go absolutely nowhere. Of this I assure you.

I feel this needs to be discussed extensively, gotten straight, and spread from one end of the nation to the other. Without it, the shred of freedom remaining to us is doomed.

On this we violently agree.

No, Osan,

WE ARE NOT "THE GOVERNMENT" ANY MORE, WRONG WRONG WRONG!

"We" ceased being the Government when we allowed the two parties to take total control of our elections, of state districting, when we allowed innumerable corporate lobbies to begin making pitches to Congress instead of the people.

WE CEASED BEING "THE GOVERNMENT" WHEN THOSE IN POWER FELT THEY COULD RULE US BETTER THAN WE COULD RULE OURSELVES.

And these people in this video have ALREADY gotten months and months of unemployment benefits. They are angry that they are not getting MORE benefits. They are frustrated that Government is keeping them from BOTH more benefits and artificially restricting Job creation to keep them POOR and DEPENDENT.

They are begging, ultimately, though they do not know it, for the dependent chains of a Tyranny.

You are very right that Government SHOULD be the people and the set of ideals that unite them, and yes we should ensure the spread of this notion as far and as wide as possible. The great "cancer" in our Republic is that there is a group of people who fail to realize that when you ask Government to do most things for you, they end up realizing they can do everything for you, and do so at a rapid pace. Since "you" are clearly not capable of doing some things for yourself (the people), they figure, why not take over the rest?

[Meatwasp]

Guess thats why I was totally fucked. No way im living with people. I hate people :)
Maybe that is why you couldn't get a job. Employers sense this.

[newbitech]

the "there are no jobs" comment was only directed at individuals who can't understand why 30 million plus are unemployed or working dead end jobs that don't pay living wages.

MelissaVW. Do some digging on those jobs that you found in Tampa. What I have found is that the job postings are often repeated in searches of that type. I have been a hawk on internet job search. My email gets blasted daily with "job offers" that fit my search criteria. The problem is, many of these hits are repeated by the vast array of temp agencies that exist in FL. At one point I had 6 temp agencies trying to apply me for the same job. And do you think I am the only candidate they are sending to the manager? No way.

Go back to indeed.com do an advanced search and filter the list by "jobs from employer site only" and "full time jobs".

Now there are "only" 5,673 jobs. If I expand the search to 100 miles this number "jumps" to 13,724. The greater Tampa Metro statistical area is populated by 2.7 million people and the greater Tampa Bay region is populated by around 4 million people.

Our unemployment rate here is hovering around 13%.

Some quick math, if we assume that only half the people in the region are in the working pool, then we are looking at around 200,000 unemployed people. So that is right around 15 people per job posted.

The fact is, while there may be "jobs" for some, for other there are just flat out NO JOBS. This is a fact that is being reported all over the country.

The fact that some people are filling the jobs listed is just a function of a normal economy. We will never fill every job, just like not everyone who busts their ass day in and day to FIND a job is going to actually get one.

It's easy for people who have never experienced the worst of an economic collapse to sit there and say, oh there are plenty of jobs yada yada and act like we aren't really in a depression. I know because I was one of them who for the life of me could not understand why people couldn't find jobs during the recovery of the early 2000's. It was easy for me to quickly find work after I was downsized.

Not so now, totally different animal we are facing here. This thing is still chewing people up and spitting them out. I am not defending the lazy people who refuse to work. But you know what, those people are with us in GOOD times too.

That is not what is going on here. Hard working, educated, enlightened, honest, caring, REAL Americans, CANNOT FIND WORK, because THERE ISN'T WORK. That is a fact.

Please don't lump all the unemployed into one big class and slap them down while they are already on their knees and you are still standing.

I am fine, I can survive. I have the skills, I have the business sense to know how to find people with capital who are ready to spend and squeeze something out of this economy with my help. No its not easy like it was in 2005-6 when I found my last "real" job. That search number from indeed was in the 100's of thousand then. Not everyone knows how to do this, and the competition among the people that do is increasing due to the economy still being in a free fall.

It's not getting better. It's getting worse. There is no sense in bashing the unemployed or making them feel like shit.

I appreciated folks linking to job boards and giving me the cursory search results. But please, believe me when I tell you. I have been at this for TWO YEARS!! Those aren't jobs you are seeing. That is what I would call noise. Waste of time most of them. Sure, you might find a diamond in the rough. I also might hit the lottery. Or more realistically, find someone who has capital to invest and use my skills to sharpen their business.

[angelatc]

Guess thats why I was totally fucked. No way im living with people. I hate people :)

As do I, and the feeling often tends to be mutual. As soon as I moved up a little in income, I moved into a disgusting but cheap studio apartment that was actually an illegally converted garage that was behind an illegally converted duplex in a part of town with a horrible crime rate.

Because I always paid my rent on time and took care of minor repairs myself, the landlord offered me a sweet deal when half of that duplex became available.

People go a long way towards making their own luck.

[angelatc]

Shouldn't their organization be called GiveUsOtherPeoplesMoney.org?

Or at least "giveusyourmoney.org"

[angelatc]

However, the bottom line is there are absolutely NOT thousands of open jobs out there waiting for people to take. There are just not.

Of course there aren't, but seeing people to hold out for "what they're worth" is just another part of the entitlement mentality.

[newbitech]

You're complaining that I'm placing people on unemployment in the same category as lazy people who feel entitled and won't take jobs that are too lowly for them. Show me where I stated our country needs more McDonalds. Your profile says you're in Tampa, so have you bothered applying to any of these open job positions you're telling me that don't exist:

You are saying that people on unemployment can go work at McDonald's. This is a joke. I continued the joke and also made the statement that you are out of touch if your suggestion to people in this vid, and to me is to go work at McDonald's.

Have YOU bothered to apply for one of those "open" McDonald's positions? I'd rather keep doing what I am doing thank you very much.

You are trying to be funny, and in the process you are continuing the insult that the person in this video is pissed at.

Posting the big long list of "jobs" for the McDonald's positions in Tampa is a joke. Why? Because clearly you haven't tried to go through a McDonald's hiring process. What you posted is not all the "Open" positions at McDonald's in Tampa. What you posted is a list of ALL the positions of the McDonald's in Tampa.

If McDonald's really had this much of a shortage of people, do you really think all they could afford to pay a manager is 28k a year? LOL. No. This is a revolving door company FOR HIGH-SCHOOLERS. This is how this company was set up to be run. By teens, and maybe a few college kids.

You have to fit the McDonald's culture to work there. They aren't going to hire me. To answer your question. Yes, I have applied at McDonald's. I am not one of those people who won't work if the work is there. I am also one of those people who understand that working a McDonald's isn't going to cut it, and that folks who insist that McDonald's is the answer to unemployment are joking or out of touch.

I am beginning to think you are out of touch, because you are sounding pretty serious about me continuing to waste my time with McDonald's.

[newbitech]

Of course there aren't, but seeing people to hold out for "what they're worth" is just another part of the entitlement mentality.

Bullshit angelatc. You are again putting people into classes and slapping them down from you high horse.

If you can't self evaluate and understand what you are worth then how do you expect to compete? You are trying to accuse me of having an entitlement mentality, but you are basing this off my not willing to give away my skills and abilities for free?

Does it make you feel good to take out your anger on people that you don't understand?

No the entitlement mentality has nothing to do with not being willing to sell yourself short.

I'd rather live in the woods and eat insects then share my skills for some chump who is not willing to reciprocate. Especially when all that chump has to offer is fiat, and even MORE especially when that chump is taking advantage of the labor market to continue to try and trade as little fiat as he/she possibly can because most people aren't like me, and would trade their valuable skills for nothing instead of eating insects and wiping their ass with leaves.

Don't give me this entitlement bullshit because I am on the other side of the deal for my labor and skills and want what its worth..

and you took another dig at me with you "making their own luck" comment. Luck is that there are still people left with capital to spend on my skills. Its luck because I have no control over how other people choose to spend their capital. Finding them has more to do with my own skill and no luck involved there. But if those people aren't out there, luck or not skill or not, you and I would both be eating bugs and finding non poisonous leaves to wipe with. Your roomies would then be the coyotes and the foghorns.

[low preference guy]

I am on the other side of the deal for my labor and skills and want what its worth

newbitech, I agree with most of what you said, but I'm sure you're smart and know that "what labor is worth" changes with time, and it's the cold result of where supply and demand meet.

Everyone "wants" to be paid a good amount of money, but in the end whether we "want" it or not is not going to have any effect on whether the offers appear or not.

By the way, I seem to recall you being good at Computer Science. Would you be willing to tutor? If so, is it hard to find jobs on that area?

[helmuth_hubener]

The problem is, the people who are unemployed are people with skills that cannot be used.

...

Makes it real tough on the honest folks who do understand what their time is worth and refuse to trade it in for something that is worth far less.

Maybe it turns out your skills are not useful to anyone right now. And maybe it turns out your time is not worth as much as you think it should be.

This attitude is *exactly*, precisely what was mentioned by a poster earlier: the attitude that "I'm too good for McDonalds, I have a law degree". Guess what, maybe you're not a very good lawyer. Maybe there's too many lawyers out there already, or too many of whatever degree you wasted your time getting. And now you have to change course.

A guy can get quite wealthy working at McDonalds if he puts his focus and energy and dedication into the job. I personally believe all unemployment checks should be cut off immediately. No more checks. That would go a long way to reducing the unemployment problem. Subsidize something, and you get more of it. Give people no other choice but to work or starve, and most will find a way to work.

[paulitics]

The problem is that the government sector is squeezing out all of the money from the private sector. This causes a depreciation in wages, thus people in the private sector aren't getting what they were accustomed to.

The high government salaries of unproductive people are paid for by tax dollars, or worse, paid for with the depreciation of the dollar. This is why you are paying more for food, gas, and health insurance.

Chinese goods are cheap because they manipulate their currency, maintain prison camps, as well as operate in abysmal working conditions. It's not free trade at all, when corrupt politicians rig the game on both sides.

[low preference guy]

I personally believe all unemployment checks should be cut off immediately. No more checks.

That's not going to do much good if the minimum wage is not abolished. It will drive the price of labor very low, below the minimum wage, so employers won't be able to hire them legally.

[GunnyFreedom]

newbitech, I agree with most of what you said, but I'm sure you're smart and know that "what labor is worth" changes with time, and it's the cold result of where supply and demand meet.

Everyone "wants" to be paid a good amount of money, but in the end whether we "want" it or not is not going to have any effect on whether the offers appear or not.

By the way, I seem to recall you being good at Computer Science. Would you be willing to tutor? If so, is it hard to find jobs on that area?

As a computer and network technician, I remember my "worth" going from $50k/annum in 1999 to $25k/annum in 2002.

[helmuth_hubener]

That is not what is going on here. Hard working, educated, enlightened, honest, caring, REAL Americans, CANNOT FIND WORK, because THERE ISN'T WORK. That is a fact.


Lower the price of a commodity enough (in this case labor) and eventually you will find a buyer.

[low preference guy]

Lower the price of a commodity enough (in this case labor) and eventually you will find a buyer.

But if it the price gets below minimum wage, it will be illegal for the buyer to hire you!

[MelissaWV]

The fact is, while there may be "jobs" for some, for other there are just flat out NO JOBS. This is a fact that is being reported all over the country.

Out of curiosity, what makes the latter category too good for the same jobs the former category have available to them? Perhaps there's a physical limitation that keeps one from applying for the Track Worker position (starting wage $19.36/hour), or maybe there's a competency gap that keeps someone from matching up and sorting documents for $9-$10/hour. Maybe they can't type (but how did they get online and upload a video without basic computer skills), and that's why they can't fulfill one of the numerous data entry positions. Who are these people for which these are not okay jobs?

The jobs are there, but the seekers don't want to change, in some cases. In others, they make excuses before the job hunt even begins. In a slim portion of cases, a physical or mental problem prevents them from meeting the basic requirements for a position. In yet other cases, they look and look, and don't realize their resume is off-putting.

I just took on someone to help me with an overload of work. I'll probably need to find someone else as the holidays approach. It was actually difficult to find someone at all, because most of the resumes were terrible. Two of the people who were so pleading and desperate in their cover letters did not return my calls within the first couple of days, so I passed them up. One of the interviews showed up peculiarly late to the mutual location, and proceeded to stick me with the check.

There are a multitude of reasons that people are unemployed, but an overall lack of jobs is not one of them. Your gripe is that there are only a few thousand jobs open, and that they waste your time. You talk down your nose at temp agencies, when they are actually pretty great at finding you work so long as you are honest with them about your expectations. You speak as if it's impossible to find a job in this economy, when others have, so "impossible" seems like a stretch. It's difficult, and there are fewer jobs opening than seekers, but it's not impossible, and by your own admission there are open positions.

Have you tried going directly to company websites for places you'd like to work at? I like going in person to those places, resume and business card in hand :) It garners me a fair bit of work and a lot of nice contacts. Following up with a thank you note or a polite phonecall (made after hours, so that I know I'll get voicemail and not interrupt someone during their busy day) seems to do wonders.

The difference between me now, and me when I was at my lowest point, is that I don't drag around a whiny, excuse-ridden debt-puddle of a husband :p But I've never been out of work for long, and my resume is a terrific read.

Insurance agent, grocery store cashier, front office coordinator, receptionist, administrative assistant, warehouse worker, switchboard operator, proofreader, copy editor, obituary writer, technical writer, check proofer, mailroom clerk, data entry clerk, fulfillment specialist for a corporate telecommunications company, inventory control, bilingual customer service, voice recording for Government agency phonetrees, issuing professional state licenses, grading tests for private certifications, file clerk, computer-generated labeling content/graphics design and implementation... and even a brief stint at the Library of Congress that was cut short by the anthrax scare(s). Some of those duties, of course, overlap, and it shouldn't be seen as an all-inclusive list.

I have been at the bottom before, and it was unpleasant. Even from there, there were plenty of jobs; it was just a matter of the difficulties in getting them.

Incidentally, there are a lot of "facts" reported all over the country that are flat-out not true. I wouldn't rely upon that as the basis for an argument.

[helmuth_hubener]

That's not going to do much good if the minimum wage is not abolished. It will drive the price of labor very low, below the minimum wage, so employers won't be able to hire them legally.

It would so do good, even on its own. But you're right -- eliminating the minimum wage would be another big plus factor. There's about $1000 worth of paperwork and other costs right up front to hire a new worker (this is one reason temp services have become so popular -- they take away this up-cost). Eliminating all that would be helpful. All the liability nonsense leaving the employer crossing his fingers that the bum he just hired doesn't "slip" on his second day of work and end up costing him 100s of 1000s of dollars, that doesn't help the job market. The gov't could also exempt all new hires from having to pay any income or withholding taxes.

So there's our four-part policy proposal:
No more dole checks
No minimum wage
You work at your own risk
No reporting or taxation requirements on new hires

[AuH20]

Relying on the government is a bad career choice anyway you look at it. The harsh lessons that will be learned during this period are going to be invaluable. It's going to be very Darwinian, to say the least. Hopefully, the parasites at the top of the food chain get their comeuppance as well.

[Seraphim]

"Government" is only a symptom of the real problem, which is closer to fascism - more than just "government" - a culture and a mindset that radiates from the originating source to the rest of a population.

Our economy is in the toilet because of the manipulations whose origins in concept and execution are the elite interests that are forwarded via the corporate extensions of their persons that confer upon them great material and psychological powers - enormous leverage.

Make no mistake about it, the United States is a full-throttle fascist organization at this point. To deny this is to deny reality in even the smallest measure. That certain overt technical elements may be missing is irrelevant. That counts is that "they" are achieving the goals of control and "we" are doing precious little to stop them. We could stop them, but we aren't, so in truth there is no difference because the result is the same - total control over the herd in every way that counts.

I agree 100%. Government IS the symptom. The virus/disease/source is corporate and banking (mainly banking) interest that control the govt.

[roho76]

To get back to the video. Isn't it illegal to talk about shooting a government official. I would think it's not wise to talk about killing government officials when you have a baby to feed. You can't do anything when your behind bars. What a bunch of idiots.

On the other note. I was unemployed for a year and a day and while it sucked I'm glad I saved my money for hard times just like those. I let go of my house on a short sale which was depressing but necessary. Probably one of the greatest things to happen to me in retrospect. But a lot of people don't want to go and get a job that won't be enough to save all their stuff. People are still to tied to their material goods to let them go because of low income so they get stuck in a rut if they can't replace the income they had.

Sell your shit and down grade before your wiped out.

[Brown Sapper]

When I got out of the Regular Army in '07, I decided to apply to McD's for shits and giggles. My plan was to work there for a week and then freak out (throwing the fries around while screaming "I'M A GOD DAMN VETERAN!!!"). Unfortunately when they interviewed me they said I was overqualified for the job even though I said I was willing to work for minimum wage. I have a degree in chemistry. They were scared that I would leave as soon as I found something in my field. McDs only wants low skilled workers from my experience.

[helmuth_hubener]

Newbitech, you do make your own luck to a very large degree. You are the captain of your life. Ever read the story of the Blue Vase? It's a good one!

http://www.fullbooks.com/The-Go-Getter.html

[newbitech]

dlow preference guy - its not so much that my skills aren't useful to anyone. The problems I have found with presenting my skills is not so much the skills but the character behind them. That is besides the point tho. Cutting edge tech skills are in demand I believe. Its just a matter of making quick adjustments and keeping your ear to the tracks.

But you are right, I have had to reevaluate what my skills are worth, and the interesting thing is I have found my skills to be worth more now than ever before. The problem is, like I said earlier to MelissaVW, we have been living in a fake economy for 20+ years. Trying to quantify skills in terms of fiat is not going to work. For instance, if I can spend 1 hour at your business configuring your infrastructure to a point that you spend 1 hours less each day on a task, what is that worth to you?

It only took me an hour to do, but I have just save you 365 productive hours for the entire year. If you make $10/productive hour, then that is $3,650 that I just saved you. Should my rate STILL be $30 an hour? Is that reasonable?

I also experienced a similar fate as Gunny in the bust.com. Except instead of a reduction in pay, I was given a pink slip. However, I choose to do as I did this time around. Take all my savings/401k, take my UI, and start a business while looking for that "perfect" job. Well last time around, that "perfect" job came at what I thought at the time was the last place I would ever work. JPMorgan Chase Bank, as a Programmer/Analyst. Talking about going from the lions den to the lions throat! I WON'T make that mistake again, and of course now I am armed with the knowledge of the Ron Paul Revolution, and great folks that won't let me escape with bullshit ideas.

I'd be willing to teach anyone who is willing to learn and ask questions. Really, all you'd need to do is watch me work. I have trained hundreds of people in my career, including those who have come in with advanced degrees and certs. Send me a PM, and let me know what you want to learn. I might even be willing to trade some work from you that I need done. Sort of OJT.

Gunny, yeah I was offered different ways to keep my job, but I felt like I was being ripped off. I'd rather find something else to do than take a huge pay cut. I think this is why now, I have decided that I am not going to go into the corp environment ever again. I felt undervalued even at the 40k I was getting. This is probably because I was surrounded by folks also making 40k who had absolutely no clue what they were doing and basically read from college text books or company scripts. That just doesn't work in the real world.

MelissaVW, thank you for sharing your experience openly. I understand what you are saying, I don't disagree. I just believe that the problems in the economy are much much deeper than people not willing to work. About the temp agencies. I have personal relationships with several staffing companies around the Bay Area. They know me well by now as I have sent in several referrals and they ALL used to get copies of my resume on a monthly basis. I can tell when a real job offer comes that fit my skills because I get slammed with emails from all of them.

These folks at staffing agencies are hounds and the competition is fierce. The point I was making was not to talk down on them, but to simply point out that the reason the indeed search looked like there was more jobs then there really is, is because the staffing firms offer those jobs up with different descriptions but they are for the same job. This is why I filter them out of my active searches. Believe me, all of my passive searches capture this redundancy. I don't filter those because I often exchange friendly banter with those firms offering the same job, and I try to drive of the prices (and lower the firms margins) by sharing the offers I get. If one firm offers the same job for 20/h and another offers for 18/h I let the 18/h firm know that I am getting a better offer for the same job.

I was also on the other end of the staffing community in that I assisted my managers in vetting potential applicants for 3 years at the bank. I know that the company doing the hiring is paying in some cases 50% more than what is being offered. So you can push those salaries up with the right skill set and the right attitude when dealing with the staff company. Those companies aren't exactly working on thin margins you know?

And yes if there are 15 applicants per job opening, then that means 1/15 will be successful in their job search while the other 14 will not. This is why there are "no jobs".

Helmuth, thanks for the encouragement. The kind of luck that I am talking about is the luck that other people out there are as prudent as I am in good times. Prudent enough to have created wealth and capital needed to pay me for my skills. If those folks weren't out there, I'd be hosed. Yes, I am not lucky to find those people, cause I understand what to look for, how to approach wealthy small business owners, how to explain to them why I can help them save money, etc etc..

The luck comes in because there are actually people out their who didn't fall into the trap of the last 20 years in the first place. I know I fell in to it, as did the vast majority of people. Thanks to RPF, and the broader liberty movement, I now recognize the trap, know how to crawl out of the hole and get back on my feet, and avoid falling for the bullshit again in the future when this thing rebounds, and it will because of people like you and most people responding in this thread.

[t0rnado]

You are saying that people on unemployment can go work at McDonald's. This is a joke. I continued the joke and also made the statement that you are out of touch if your suggestion to people in this vid, and to me is to go work at McDonald's.

Have YOU bothered to apply for one of those "open" McDonald's positions? I'd rather keep doing what I am doing thank you very much.

You are trying to be funny, and in the process you are continuing the insult that the person in this video is pissed at.

Posting the big long list of "jobs" for the McDonald's positions in Tampa is a joke. Why? Because clearly you haven't tried to go through a McDonald's hiring process. What you posted is not all the "Open" positions at McDonald's in Tampa. What you posted is a list of ALL the positions of the McDonald's in Tampa.

If McDonald's really had this much of a shortage of people, do you really think all they could afford to pay a manager is 28k a year? LOL. No. This is a revolving door company FOR HIGH-SCHOOLERS. This is how this company was set up to be run. By teens, and maybe a few college kids.

You have to fit the McDonald's culture to work there. They aren't going to hire me. To answer your question. Yes, I have applied at McDonald's. I am not one of those people who won't work if the work is there. I am also one of those people who understand that working a McDonald's isn't going to cut it, and that folks who insist that McDonald's is the answer to unemployment are joking or out of touch.

I am beginning to think you are out of touch, because you are sounding pretty serious about me continuing to waste my time with McDonald's.

McDonald's was just one example of a job you think you are too educated and skilled to take. Those were all the open jobs at McDonalds in Tampa. You'd know that they were the OPEN positions and not just positions if you had really applied there, wouldn't you? If you think 28k/year "isn't going to cut it" for someone who is currently unemployed then you are living beyond you're means.


Bullshit angelatc. You are again putting people into classes and slapping them down from you high horse.

If you can't self evaluate and understand what you are worth then how do you expect to compete? You are trying to accuse me of having an entitlement mentality, but you are basing this off my not willing to give away my skills and abilities for free?

Does it make you feel good to take out your anger on people that you don't understand?

No the entitlement mentality has nothing to do with not being willing to sell yourself short.

I'd rather live in the woods and eat insects then share my skills for some chump who is not willing to reciprocate. Especially when all that chump has to offer is fiat, and even MORE especially when that chump is taking advantage of the labor market to continue to try and trade as little fiat as he/she possibly can because most people aren't like me, and would trade their valuable skills for nothing instead of eating insects and wiping their ass with leaves.

Don't give me this entitlement bullshit because I am on the other side of the deal for my labor and skills and want what its worth..

and you took another dig at me with you "making their own luck" comment. Luck is that there are still people left with capital to spend on my skills. Its luck because I have no control over how other people choose to spend their capital. Finding them has more to do with my own skill and no luck involved there. But if those people aren't out there, luck or not skill or not, you and I would both be eating bugs and finding non poisonous leaves to wipe with. Your roomies would then be the coyotes and the foghorns.

You keep mentioning these "skills". Mind sharing what they are?

[newbitech]

McDonald's was just one example of a job you think you are too educated and skilled to take. Those were all the open jobs at McDonalds in Tampa. You'd know that they were the OPEN positions and not just positions if you had really applied there, wouldn't you? If you think 28k/year "isn't going to cut it" for someone who is currently unemployed then you are living beyond you're means.



You keep mentioning these "skills". Mind sharing what they are?

Actually, I know that they are a list of all the positions because I recognize just about every location in that list which represents pretty much all of the McDonald's store locations in Tampa. Further, when you look at each location, you will realize that each location has an opening for every job that can be done there. So regardless of whether or not I applied for the positions you posted, its pretty easy to tell what is going on here. Its called recruitment. This means they are getting a field of applicants to have on file and handy so when some manager at a store or some GM for the region decides to fill the position, they can vet the list and find someone to call to interview and go through the process.

Yes, I have applied for ALL of those positions and even went to the stores to find out what is going on. I was told by one manager that chances are I wouldn't even be contacted because of my skill set. They aren't looking to fill jobs with people who are only looking for temp work to fill an unemployment gap. You'd know this if YOU applied and actually tried to get hired by McD's. So once again, please end the joke, it wasn't funny the first time. I can't help if you don't believe what I am saying about McDonald's or the myriad of other low/no skill jobs NOT being the answer for skilled workers.

Yes, people will have to change their skills sets. I have had to change mine. No problem, I am in an industry that changes literally by the minute. I am used to that. Others, it will take years to retrain, but that is only AFTER the economy picks a direction that is not DUMPING skilled employees.

If you want a general idea of my skill set, check my profile. I am not going to post my resume here for you. I don't need to. I have also posted an commented plenty in the past about my previous corporate jobs and business adventures.

To sum it up, I can work efficiently, effectively, and expertly in every computer programming language, platform, software, OS, network, and hardware configuration. I have many specialized skills in all of these areas that I can target specifically on a companies needs. Too many to list in general.

Beyond that, I can fix any car, repair any appliance, wire any circuit, solder any component, troubleshoot any chip set or circuit board configuration, and eat glass while walking with my eyes closed.

While suffering somewhat early in this depression, I have worked hard to dig myself out of the hole I was in thanks to a lot of humility, belt tightening beyond what any reasonable person would consider acceptable, and of course the understanding of what this country is really supposed to be about thanks to people in this forum and in the broader Ron Paul liberty movement.

I share my experience and whiny complaints hoping to help other avoid the pitfalls that caught me in a trap nearly 4 years ago.

No 28k is not going to cut it for someone who is unemployed and requires more than the after tax bring home income that comes out of that.

As far as living beyond their means, if someone has been unemployed for the last 2 years, its pretty damn near impossible to live beyond their means in this current depression.

[angelatc]

This is probably because I was surrounded by folks also making 40k who had absolutely no clue what they were doing and basically read from college text books or company scripts. That just doesn't work in the real world.

If they are still at your old company, apparently it does work in the real world. Maybe it isn't fair, but statistically employers put greater value on education over experience.

You don't think McDonald's would be interested in a system that would save them money?

[helmuth_hubener]

It only took me an hour to do, but I have just save you 365 productive hours for the entire year. If you make $10/productive hour, then that is $3,650 that I just saved you. Should my rate STILL be $30 an hour? Is that reasonable? That reminds me of when Thomas Edison was called to go to some electrical plant and fix a problem they were having. He spent 10 minutes, solved it, and sent them a bill for some extremely high amount. But you were only here 10 minutes, they said. You're not just paying for my 10 minutes, you're paying for all the time and intelligence and effort it took to know how to repair it in 10 minutes. Something like that; I'm probably butchering the story.



Helmuth, thanks for the encouragement. The kind of luck that I am talking about is the luck that other people out there are as prudent as I am in good times. Prudent enough to have created wealth and capital needed to pay me for my skills. If those folks weren't out there, I'd be hosed. Yes, I am not lucky to find those people, cause I understand what to look for, how to approach wealthy small business owners, how to explain to them why I can help them save money, etc etc..

The luck comes in because there are actually people out their who didn't fall into the trap of the last 20 years in the first place. I know I fell in to it, as did the vast majority of people. Thanks to RPF, and the broader liberty movement, I now recognize the trap, know how to crawl out of the hole and get back on my feet, and avoid falling for the bullshit again in the future when this thing rebounds, and it will because of people like you and most people responding in this thread. Thank you for the thanks! :)

Indeed, without savings and capital accumulation, we'd all be scratching in the dirt. Let's all rebound, get rich, and use th wealth to further the cause of liberty!

[newbitech]

If they are still at your old company, apparently it does work in the real world. Maybe it isn't fair, but statistically employers put greater value on education over experience.

You don't think McDonald's would be interested in a system that would save them money?


Actually, what I learned is there is very little difference between the hiring and firing practices of large corps and government. It is a political process that has next to nothing to do with merit, skill, education, or experience.

I was fired because I challenged the status quo. I wanted to know why the patch I wrote to "fix" origination problems with loans that needed freddie approval for 18 year olds to be the primary on 2nd home loans over 400k for their parents while the kid was in college, wasn't being applied.

Apparently, UW management and Legal decided my patch wasn't needed because the error was the excuse needed to manually underwrite these bogus loans and allow them to override the automated system which is technically designed to obey the laws and make decisions based on good math.

I was getting sick of the support calls I had to answer to explain to LO's how to override the system and push these bogus type loans through. It got to a point where my managers realized I was making to big a fuss about this issue, and they sat me down and gave me the "attitude/team player/good of the dept" lecture. When I didn't back down, it went down hill from there.

I was fired for being good at what I did. When I was fired, no one there wanted my position. They tried to pawn it off on contractors. They tried to pawn it off on people with "education". These folks either couldn't do my job or refused to do it for the pittance that the managers were trying to pay. Eventually, they found someone in Singapore willing to take up my old responsibilities and completely ignore the manual overrides that were happening in the system daily. When I was fired, the entire department was shaken up. Several people quit, several posted out.

For what I was doing, which was proprietary and specific to that job function, no without on the job training and the reams of documentation that I produced someone coming in with an advanced degree would not be able to jump in and hit the ground running. Yes, they would be more likely to pick it up quickly, but clearly hands on experience was far superior. I know this is true in the industry as a whole. People often forget the I in IT and choose to focus on the technology part. Real time information is not something you can learn in school. Processing corporate data and producing information is not something a professor can train. Sure, you can have the structure in some cookie cutter case study, but unless you actually have the ability to adapt skills to the problem at hand, then no education is not enough.

I agree, it drove me nuts that managers tended to want to hire degreed people. I believe now that whether they knew it or not, managers were looking for people who were susceptible to indoctrination so that those folks would be more easily controlled. Unlike me and my uneducated ass who would not fall for the bullshit when the time came to decided if the excuses I was being given for lack of problem solving on a systemic level was due to my incompetence or to some empty suit trying to keep their illegal gravy train going. Plus, college kids are happy to do whatever the manager asks, cause they have those 100k plus educations loans to be paid off. These make great little busy bee employees who won't question the status quo for fear of losing their "stipends" and having their "education" become a losing investment.

I am sure McDonald's is interested in a system that saves them money. One of my early responsibilities in the IT field when I worked at IBM in 2000 was to troubleshoot their menu system and read the log files etc to figure out what was causing the break downs. They were having problems with moisture in southern states fogging up the glass and shorting out the speakers. One solution was to put a small air condition inside the menu system. Many other solutions were presented to the menu engineers from the desk I worked on. Think I got any credit for solving problems that the engineers couldn't or wouldn't figure out? Hell no. This is repeated over and over again in the corporate world. You work for 15 bucks an hour, provide a solution to a 15 million dollar a year problem, and get a pat on the back. Good job my little uneducated busy bee. Good job.

[t0rnado]

Actually, I know that they are a list of all the positions because I recognize just about every location in that list which represents pretty much all of the McDonald's store locations in Tampa. Further, when you look at each location, you will realize that each location has an opening for every job that can be done there. So regardless of whether or not I applied for the positions you posted, its pretty easy to tell what is going on here. Its called recruitment. This means they are getting a field of applicants to have on file and handy so when some manager at a store or some GM for the region decides to fill the position, they can vet the list and find someone to call to interview and go through the process.

Yes, I have applied for ALL of those positions and even went to the stores to find out what is going on. I was told by one manager that chances are I wouldn't even be contacted because of my skill set. They aren't looking to fill jobs with people who are only looking for temp work to fill an unemployment gap. You'd know this if YOU applied and actually tried to get hired by McD's. So once again, please end the joke, it wasn't funny the first time. I can't help if you don't believe what I am saying about McDonald's or the myriad of other low/no skill jobs NOT being the answer for skilled workers.



Try Burger King next.




Yes, people will have to change their skills sets. I have had to change mine. No problem, I am in an industry that changes literally by the minute. I am used to that. Others, it will take years to retrain, but that is only AFTER the economy picks a direction that is not DUMPING skilled employees.

If you want a general idea of my skill set, check my profile. I am not going to post my resume here for you. I don't need to. I have also posted an commented plenty in the past about my previous corporate jobs and business adventures.

To sum it up, I can work efficiently, effectively, and expertly in every computer programming language, platform, software, OS, network, and hardware configuration. I have many specialized skills in all of these areas that I can target specifically on a companies needs. Too many to list in general.


If you told your interviewer that you could program at an 'expert' level in every language, platform, and OS, you wouldn't get a job. I'm a programmer and I don't know of a single person who can do all of that, so either you're a wizard or you aren't aware of your skill set. The latter is more probable.



Beyond that, I can fix any car, repair any appliance, wire any circuit, solder any component, troubleshoot any chip set or circuit board configuration, and eat glass while walking with my eyes closed.

While suffering somewhat early in this depression, I have worked hard to dig myself out of the hole I was in thanks to a lot of humility, belt tightening beyond what any reasonable person would consider acceptable, and of course the understanding of what this country is really supposed to be about thanks to people in this forum and in the broader Ron Paul liberty movement.

I share my experience and whiny complaints hoping to help other avoid the pitfalls that caught me in a trap nearly 4 years ago.

No 28k is not going to cut it for someone who is unemployed and requires more than the after tax bring home income that comes out of that.

As far as living beyond their means, if someone has been unemployed for the last 2 years, its pretty damn near impossible to live beyond their means in this current depression.

You're contradicting yourself here. On one hand you say that you're an expert at every programming language and on the other, you say that you have a lot of humility. You keep saying that 28K won't cut it. If you think you're entitled to a certain figure, then enjoy staying unemployed.

[newbitech]

Try Burger King next.




If you told your interviewer that you could program at an 'expert' level in every language, platform, and OS, you wouldn't get a job. I'm a programmer and I don't know of a single person who can do all of that, so either you're a wizard or you aren't aware of your skill set. The latter is more probable.



You're contradicting yourself here. On one hand you say that you're an expert at every programming language and on the other, you say that you have a lot of humility. You keep saying that 28K won't cut it. If you think you're entitled to a certain figure, then enjoy staying unemployed.

This will be my last public response to you because you are clearly in this topic to insult and agitate unemployed people by telling them their solution is the fast food industry. That kind of joking might be cool with your peers, but it doesn't help any of mine.

Thank god you were never my interviewer.

What language do you program in? Have you ever had to integrate two completely different systems, like when one big ass bank buys out another big ass bank? Kind of like JPMorgan did back in 05-06 when they were bought out by bankone? Who do you think handles those types of integrations? Someone who only knows .asp? Or someone who only knows knows .pl? Don't you think you need someone who understands UNIX and Windows? Once I realized, I mean really realized that its all 1's and 0's the rest just became a matter of studying the languages.

Well, pleasure to make your acquaintance. I have never met someone who can speak 10 languages fluently. Do I doubt such a person exists, no. I am sure there are folks who can speaks in any language they want.

No I am not contradicting myself because I have approached my troubles with humility. What does being able to program in any language expertly have to do with humility unless you think I am lying? You are not calling me a hypocrite, you are calling me a liar. Unless you have some cash to back up your bet, please don't try to get me to prove my skills to you. What language is that again that you'd like to test me in? And how much do I win when I pass? I've got my business check card and code editor right here ready to take up that offer. Send me a PM if you seriously want to check my skills.

No I don't think I am entitled to anything. I actually earn it. I know you have found some reason to think otherwise which shows how far out of touch you are at least about my circumstances, what with you lumping me into a category and trying so hard to prove that I am a liar. You could have taken 5 seconds to actually figure out what I do, you know asked me. But you aren't interested in that. Are you? Didn't think so. And the funny thing is, I know you are not reading me because I have already explained how I have handled my problems in the last 2 recession right here in this thread. Basically, for me, unemployment is a status or label I only use when discussion government created problems. Personally for me, there is no such thing as unemployment. I am always employed.

Again 28k/year is not a one size fits all number. You used that number cause that is how much McD's is paying FOOD MANAGERS. Probably a good reason I won't eat there either. It's like you won't even bother to suggest to me to go work at a place like say Bonefish, or Outback even, where food managers there make in the 50k range. Nope, you want to humiliate me and insult me by telling me that I am a hypocrite and liar cause I am not flipping burgers right now.

Next you will be saying that I am a druggie, and spend my unemployment insurance at strip bars, and overage charges for my Iphone. Not the ghost you think I am bud. A real person you are talking to here.

[YumYum]

We should stop spending 1 trillion a year in welfare that is given to foreign entities before we fight with each other over Americans getting food stamps and unemployment. How much are we spending a day in Iraq? In Afghanistan? If we are going to give welfare to anybody, I would rather see it go to my fellow American citizens, rather than unappreciative foreigners in other countries.

[specsaregood]

//

[newbitech]

That might be your loss. I might hire them, but first I would ask them to prove it. :)


Come on now, I doubt you are an instant expert in every single OS and programming language. Sure once you have the skillset it is relatively easy/quick to get up to "expert" on a new language or OS, but I doubt you could be dropped into any situation right now without any references and go,go,go. And yes I too have done those things you asked about. But I would phrase it that I have the ability to perform as an expert in any such scenario. Provided I have access to resources and time to tool around/research a new platform.

I mean, could you write to the BEOS framework right this second and then tomorrow whip out a VAX program in cobol, both without any references?


what if I told you I could? Are you willing to pay me to prove it? Because if not, then what is the point of asking?

Anyways, look, I didn't post a resume for a reason. Anyone right now who says they are a programmer and is only bringing one language to the table is going to end up being a liability to the company that contracts with them. (I should also add, that even bringing multiple languages probably won't cut it either. You'll need to be able to adapt to the M&A actions that is on the horizon once real business starts up again. That means doing all that stuff, in my little world.)

Yes, I am an expert in the field. My nickname at the bank was "neo" given to me by my peers. I own the matrix. Maybe I came across cocky in this thread, and I will back off that because I have been around long enough to know that things change. I would never get into a group of peers and start talking shit about my uber skills. I see I am being called out for emphasizing my level of expertise. I don't question skills, I question the results and output. The only way to know for sure in my business is to test test test. And test some more. So without that test, whether I can or can't based on what I say is pointless.

I see no value in trying to prove myself to peers, because my peers aren't doing the hiring.

But thanks for the hip check anyways. I appreciate that. With that, I will take my bow out, as I have to answer some questions for a new client that I have put on hold for the last couple hours responding to the outrage that is unemployment.

[MelissaWV]

:eek: I hope you have some really awesome hold music.