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Anti Federalist
07-03-2010, 12:27 PM
What the hell???



Old technology foils Schwarzenegger's wage order

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_california_budget_minimum_wage

SACRAMENTO, Calif. – As the Terminator, Arnold Schwarzenegger was the technology of the future, feared by humans. As governor, he's being foiled by the technology of the past.

For the second time in two years, Schwarzenegger has ordered most state workers' pay cut to the federal minimum wage because lawmakers missed their deadline to fix the state's $19 billion budget deficit. The Legislature's failure to act has left the state without a spending plan as the new fiscal year begins.

A state appellate court ruled in Schwarzenegger's favor Friday, but the state controller, who issues state paychecks, says he can't comply. One reason given by Controller John Chiang, a Democrat elected in 2006: The state's computer system can't handle the technological challenge of restating paychecks to the federal minimum of $7.25 an hour.

Chiang cited Friday's ruling by the 3rd District Court of Appeals, which said "unfeasibility" would excuse him from complying with Schwarzenegger's minimum wage order. He said a fix to the state's computerized payroll system won't be ready until October 2012.

Meanwhile, more than 200,000 state workers remain in limbo about the size of their July paychecks while Chiang asks the court for guidance on how to proceed. If wages are indeed cut to $7.25 an hour, employees will be reimbursed once a budget is signed.

At least one expert said the outdated nature of the payroll system should not be an excuse for failing to comply with the governor's directive.

John Harrigan, who served as a division chief for the state's payroll services from 1980 to 2006, said upgrading the system would be complicated, time-consuming and expensive, but it could be done.

"It's not something that you can take lightly and do overnight," said Harrigan, who also served as chief deputy controller from 2000 to 2002. "You have all the collective bargaining for civil servants and (state universities) that have to be taken into consideration. ... It's very complicated. It would take considerable effort."

The state's payroll system was designed more than 60 years ago and was last revamped in 1970, Hallye Jordan, state controller's office spokeswoman, said in an e-mail.

A report by the nonpartisan legislative analyst's office said an overhaul of the state's computerized payroll system was proposed by the controller's office in 2004. A year later, the Legislature approved $130 million for the effort, called the 21st Century Project.

Work to complete the project has been postponed by the controller's office repeatedly over the past several years, said Lynelle Jolley, spokeswoman for the governor's Department of Personnel Administration.

"They had various setbacks that only they can explain," she said.

Harrigan said he was involved with the 21st Century Project when it was conceived in the late 1990s. He said the state fired the vendor executing the project in 2008 because the company went bankrupt.

As the project dragged on, the state has had fewer experts on hand who could thoroughly understand the programming languages used to design the system.

"There's been a knowledge loss with people retiring," Harrigan said.

Even so, he said changing the system to pay state workers the federal minimum wage could be accomplished by the programmers currently on staff.

Implementing the minimum wage change would take six to nine months, in part because the Legislature would have to pass a bill to modify the computer system or collect additional data, said Nick Dedier, former chief information officer for the state Department of Justice.

Asked if the administration agreed that the payroll system could not handle the change, Schwarzenegger spokesman Aaron McLear cited the 2009 lower court ruling in the governor's favor. In part, it said the controller's office "has not made a sufficient factual showing of impossibility ..."

The state's chief information officer declined to take a position when asked whether it would be technically possible for the controller to follow the order. In an e-mail, spokesman Bill Maile said the office is ready to help the controller comply with the order if asked.

The controller's chief of staff, Collin Wong-Martinusen, said in a letter to the governor's office Friday that the administration is well aware of the problems with the state's payroll system because it has been working closely with the controller to modernize it.

"The new payroll system will have the capacity to address the state's current and future business needs, including the lawful reduction of wages in the absence of a budget," he wrote. "If you have solutions to the identified challenges, it would be in the State's best interest that you share them."

A spokesman for state Sen. Tony Strickland, the Republican nominee for controller who is challenging Chiang this fall, said he was in Portland, Ore., on Friday and unavailable for comment. His campaign manager, Chris Wangsaporn, did not return a call seeking comment.

Republican gubernatorial nominee Meg Whitman, who is campaigning on a proposal to make state government more efficient by updating its technology, did not respond to requests for comment Friday. She acknowledges the problem with California's payroll system in her policy booklet but does not offer a specific solution.

With all the difficulties that would be involved, some technical experts seem perplexed that the governor wants to go through with the order.

"The state isn't saving any money on paying them minimum wage, because they ultimately have to make them whole," Harrigan said. "So what's the point?"

The average state employee makes $65,000 annually, according to the state Department of Personnel Administration. A cut to minimum wage would mean state workers would make the equivalent of $15,000 a year.

In its letter to Schwarzenegger, the controller's office said it would take at least six months to reinstate workers' full pay once a budget is passed.

Brian4Liberty
07-03-2010, 12:39 PM
the state controller, who issues state paychecks, says he can't comply. One reason given by Controller John Chiang, a Democrat elected in 2006: The state's computer system can't handle the technological challenge of restating paychecks to the federal minimum of $7.25 an hour.

Chiang is full of crap. He has made it more than clear that he will not comply any orders coming from Schwarzenegger. He's just making stuff up.

specsaregood
07-03-2010, 12:41 PM
Just lay them all off, seems like an easy enough solution to me. I bet they fix that system up in no time.

roho76
07-03-2010, 01:27 PM
Take their rate and divide it by 7.25 and then pay them on this weeks. If they make 21.75 pay them every three weeks. Problem solved.

michaelwise
07-03-2010, 01:36 PM
I do so enjoy watching Keynesian economic collapses. They do happen a little too slowing for my enjoyment but the end result is so entertaining. The California and Illinois collapses are meeting my wildest expectations though.

RideTheDirt
07-03-2010, 01:45 PM
This is so much BS. I can't stand the MORONS up in Sacramento.:mad:


The state's payroll system was designed more than 60 years ago and was last revamped in 1970, Hallye Jordan, state controller's office spokeswoman, said in an e-mail.
I bet they didn't install a way to lower paychecks.:rolleyes:

Original_Intent
07-03-2010, 01:47 PM
What a load of crap. I'm no SQL expert and I could probably write the query that would do this in no time.

There is no way all those salaries are not just stored in a database somewhere, and there is no way that they could not save out the current salary (for restoring later) and replace it with 7.25 an hour.

This has nothing to do with technology, and everything to do with Chiang saying he is going to do what he wants.

puppetmaster
07-03-2010, 02:00 PM
Have the Governator arrest him......thats what they would do for one of us if we did not comply....

specsaregood
07-03-2010, 02:04 PM
What a load of crap. I'm no SQL expert and I could probably write the query that would do this in no time.

There is no way all those salaries are not just stored in a database somewhere, and there is no way that they could not save out the current salary (for restoring later) and replace it with 7.25 an hour.

This has nothing to do with technology, and everything to do with Chiang saying he is going to do what he wants.

No doubt about it. I'm sure there are plenty of out of work computer experts that would be willing to replace the incompetents that claim it can't be done quickly.

Promontorium
07-03-2010, 06:02 PM
"The long run is a misleading guide to current affairs. In the long run we are all dead." Keynes 1883-1946

Looks like we're entering Keynes' long run. Him and all his laughing thieving cronies are dead. We will pay the devil. I don't even understand the morons that support pushing debt on to the 'next guy'.

Danke
07-03-2010, 06:09 PM
What a load of crap. I'm no SQL expert and I could probably write the query that would do this in no time.

There is no way all those salaries are not just stored in a database somewhere, and there is no way that they could not save out the current salary (for restoring later) and replace it with 7.25 an hour.

This has nothing to do with technology, and everything to do with Chiang saying he is going to do what he wants.

I somehow doubt they have the same problems when it is time for their yearly raises?

Humanae Libertas
07-03-2010, 06:16 PM
Why doesn't Arnie cut his pay as well as the State legislatures salary? Anyone know how much on average a California congressmen makes in a year?

They get the highest salary of any state.

http://www.empirecenter.org/html/legislative_salaries.cfm


California
$113,098/year
$162/day for each day they are in session.

Give the state legislature minimum wage! They surely don't care about our problems, except passing more gun-grabbing bills, EPA emission scams.

Akus
07-03-2010, 07:41 PM
What the hell???



Old technology foils Schwarzenegger's wage order

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_california_budget_minimum_wage

SACRAMENTO, Calif. – As the Terminator, Arnold Schwarzenegger was the technology of the future, feared by humans.

LIE!!!!!!!!

One sentense into the article and they're already lying. Schwarzenegger clearly stated in 3rd Terminator that he was "an obsolete model".

SevenEyedJeff
07-03-2010, 08:19 PM
All they need to do is find a computer programmer willing to work for minimum wage. Problem fixed.:D

specsaregood
07-03-2010, 09:11 PM
Why doesn't Arnie cut his pay as well as the State legislatures salary?

Uhm because he doesn't take any.
"Because of his personal wealth from his acting career, Schwarzenegger does not accept his governor's salary of $175,000 per year.[53]"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arnold_Schwarzenegger

someperson
07-03-2010, 09:38 PM
Wow, even the state's codebase is epic fail. I don't believe it. As Original_Intent said, a change like this should only involve a very simple SQL query... assuming their software is actually using a database. If the payroll data was hard-coded into the software... wow. Even if that's the case, October 2012 for a fix? lol Canonical will have released five more versions of the Ubuntu operating system by then. Microsoft will have released Windows 7 SP1, probably SP2, and Windows 8, by then.

Yeah, I simply can't believe it.

buffalokid777
07-03-2010, 09:55 PM
All they need to do is find a computer programmer willing to work for minimum wage. Problem fixed.:D

India has hundreds of thousands that would do it.

Promontorium
07-03-2010, 10:23 PM
Why doesn't Arnie cut his pay as well as the State legislatures salary? Anyone know how much on average a California congressmen makes in a year?

They get the highest salary of any state.

http://www.empirecenter.org/html/legislative_salaries.cfm



Give the state legislature minimum wage! They surely don't care about our problems, except passing more gun-grabbing bills, EPA emission scams.

Typical anti-intellectualism.

Should a CEO get paid nothing if he/she has to make cuts to the budget? It is non sequitur. You don't even address if it's a good idea, you effectively argue "No you!" and think your work here is done.

I've seen the media use the same argument every single time a budget issue comes up, then under their breathes, long after explaining his irrelevantly large paycheck they mention that he has refused to be paid all these years. When an organization is billions in the whole, eliminating the paycheck of the one person struggling to resolve the issue won't solve anything.

Apologies but this is not a personal issue with you, just every Californian I hear from thinks cutting paychecks of officials IS the solution. It's not, not in any city, county, or state. Maybe some employees are overpaid, but even if all employees made nothing California would still be billions down. The paycut is only meant to be temporary and all wages lost would be paid back, mathematically you might realize this tactic is actually costing the state more money. The means of cutting pay is to inspire action in resolving the budget. Perhaps only the legislature's pay should have been cut, but Arnold played the only hand he had.

Promontorium
07-03-2010, 10:30 PM
What I find funny about the claim of having no technological ability to change pay is... Then how does anyone get paid? If they get a raise what happens? If the state raises pay for a job, how? I'm really confused. The way they talk about their payment system is like the pampered ignorant people in "The Time Machine" that were ruled by a computer they didn't understand. This isn't post apocalyptic Earth circa 2112. They should walk their asses into silicon valley and ask if some intern wants the street cred for fixing California's payment system.

Humanae Libertas
07-04-2010, 12:50 AM
Typical anti-intellectualism.

Should a CEO get paid nothing if he/she has to make cuts to the budget? It is non sequitur. You don't even address if it's a good idea, you effectively argue "No you!" and think your work here is done.

I've seen the media use the same argument every single time a budget issue comes up, then under their breathes, long after explaining his irrelevantly large paycheck they mention that he has refused to be paid all these years. When an organization is billions in the whole, eliminating the paycheck of the one person struggling to resolve the issue won't solve anything.

Apologies but this is not a personal issue with you, just every Californian I hear from thinks cutting paychecks of officials IS the solution. It's not, not in any city, county, or state. Maybe some employees are overpaid, but even if all employees made nothing California would still be billions down. The paycut is only meant to be temporary and all wages lost would be paid back, mathematically you might realize this tactic is actually costing the state more money. The means of cutting pay is to inspire action in resolving the budget. Perhaps only the legislature's pay should have been cut, but Arnold played the only hand he had.

I never argued in favor of cutting anyones pay. All I was saying is if Arnie and his Progressive buddies want to cut salary, look no further than Sacramento.

osan
07-04-2010, 06:56 AM
Chiang is full of crap. He has made it more than clear that he will not comply any orders coming from Schwarzenegger. He's just making stuff up.

Maybe, maybe not. I've been in that business for 30 years and can assure you that what he says about the complexities is almost certainly true. I have worked, for example, on rewrites of state unemployment benefits systems and those are far less complex than payroll for the simple fact that they are more uniform, yet even those are very complex and rewrites take about 2 years to accomplish and cut into production.

Chiang's potential full-of-shitness aside, what he is quoted as saying is essentially true. That said, it is possible that he is playing the problems up in order to play the idiot-democrat agenda against the idiot-republican agenda.... would not surprise me much. The point about having to make the workers "whole" again is, however, correct. Add to that the cost to rewrite the payroll system and you come out a large chunk in the red. I can guarantee you that such a rewrite will be significantly greater than $100MM. In fact, if it topped $200MM it would not surprise me a bit. You are talking about the most populous state with more government per capita than any other place in the nation, save maybe NJ, plus all manner of union contigencies as well as other legislative nonsense that must be embodied in the code. Then there is training, documentation, cutting to production... it is a HUGE project no matter how you cut it, so on these points I would say Chiang is absolutely telling the truth.

Austrian Econ Disciple
07-04-2010, 07:04 AM
The State will do everything except cut out their parasitic devourers. Nothing is going to change California, until it collapses, and it will. You thought TARP was a big deal, wait until DC rolls out the red carpet for California. I'd like to see what transpires in more frugal states like MT, WY, AK, etc. You thought the 10th and secession movements are growing now, just wait for that moment.

osan
07-04-2010, 07:07 AM
I do so enjoy watching Keynesian economic collapses. They do happen a little too slowing for my enjoyment but the end result is so entertaining. The California and Illinois collapses are meeting my wildest expectations though.

BLIND IDIOT!!!!!! Government is the only thing that can save us. Government is holy and sacred and always knows what is best for you. Damn your ignorance and hubris! Damn your refusal to buy government-approved knee pads! Damn you, damn you DAMN YOU!

Big Brother is the only salvation we shall ever know. Sin against Him if you dare, but come the day of your damnation, look to nobody but yourself and seek not the comfort you will so bitterly regret having forsaken!

YAYUH!

Inflation
07-04-2010, 02:09 PM
Come on Arnold, TERMINATE this POS!

Remember when you FIRED the head of the DMV because he refused to kill the car tax, using the same lame "blame the computer" excuse?

That was AWESOME.

Anti Federalist
07-04-2010, 02:16 PM
BLIND IDIOT!!!!!! Government is the only thing that can save us. Government is holy and sacred and always knows what is best for you. Damn your ignorance and hubris! Damn your refusal to buy government-approved knee pads! Damn you, damn you DAMN YOU!

Big Brother is the only salvation we shall ever know. Sin against Him if you dare, but come the day of your damnation, look to nobody but yourself and seek not the comfort you will so bitterly regret having forsaken!

YAYUH!

Laughing...:D

CCTelander
07-04-2010, 02:18 PM
Laughing...:D

Me too! :D

Fredom101
07-04-2010, 02:43 PM
If all the idiots in Sacramento went away tomorrow, no one in CA would miss them, except for the parasites (but that would be a good thing).

Pauls' Revere
07-04-2010, 02:59 PM
Seems the system works when it comes to handing out raises!
:mad:

Brian4Liberty
07-06-2010, 10:48 AM
Maybe, maybe not. I've been in that business for 30 years and can assure you that what he says about the complexities is almost certainly true. I have worked, for example, on rewrites of state unemployment benefits systems and those are far less complex than payroll for the simple fact that they are more uniform, yet even those are very complex and rewrites take about 2 years to accomplish and cut into production.


Of course that is what it takes to re-write (or even release a new version) of software. We are talking about data here. Accountants and the payroll dept should be able to do the payroll by hand on pieces of paper if they had to. There is no doubt that no one wants to do the hard work, which in this case may be some manual data manipulation. "There is no button on my computer that does that" is no excuse.

I have seen all journal entries in an accounting system created manually for months during implementation of a new accounting system.

Deborah K
07-06-2010, 10:51 AM
Cali is going to self destruct. As a resident, I am very afraid.

Austrian Econ Disciple
07-06-2010, 01:45 PM
Cali is going to self destruct. As a resident, I am very afraid.

While we have our disagreements our views are mostly amicable. Have you thought about joining the FSP?

tasteless
07-06-2010, 03:34 PM
I remember seeing this story a year or so ago, they can't change wages because the software is written in an old language (I think FORTRAN or COBOL) that no one really uses anymore. I think they were talking about getting a bunch of old programmers to come out of retirement to update.

Funny how it's still not resolved. Gotta love how slow the state is at resolving problems.

Anti Federalist
07-06-2010, 03:39 PM
While we have our disagreements our views are mostly amicable. Have you thought about joining the FSP?

That ^^^

Get out, DK, while the gettings good.

puppetmaster
07-06-2010, 07:13 PM
I remember seeing this story a year or so ago, they can't change wages because the software is written in an old language (I think FORTRAN or COBOL) that no one really uses anymore. I think they were talking about getting a bunch of old programmers to come out of retirement to update.

Funny how it's still not resolved. Gotta love how slow the state is at resolving problems.


hey I know COBOL...and I am not OLD....LOL
There are still millions of lines of COBOL code in use...in the banking industry

Koz
07-06-2010, 08:30 PM
Aahhhh, another great reason I left Kaliforniastan.