Owner of Blackwater has Contributed to Ron Paul in the Past.

[Nash]

FTFA:


Prince was a White House intern under President George H.W. Bush. Political donations over the past two decades total almost $263,000 to Pat Buchanan, Oliver North, Rep. Ron Paul, R-Texas, and former Sen. Rick Santorum, R-Pa., among others.

Just note this tidbit of info as something he could potentially be smeared with. Now that we know we are in a position to defend it.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2003948606_blackwater14.html

[TheIndependent]

Here's what I said in another related thread:

Look, mercs aren't a bad idea, but they should be held to U.S. law. That's the way you do it: hold them to the same standards as any of the military.

You've seen what happens when they aren't.

Also, expect some degree of blowback from this. There are a lot of people looking for ways to take Paul down and they'll use it in any way they can even if taken completely out-of-context. You simply cannot blame the candidate for the sins of his donors.

---

Bloggers, get ready to post your defenses and supporters, write LTEs at once should the smear brigade come out in force. This is something the campaign should get ready to defend itself against also.

[Lord Xar]

I don't know. This is NOT a big deal, not in the least. I mean, how can someone control WHO DONATES to you. I mean, look at Shillary, based on her record - every high dollar donor is some sort of corruption case.....

I am sure "if" we search we can find some HARDCORE socialists who donate to hillary etc.. and some high powered corrupt people donating to others.. so if they want to smear Ron Paul, fine --- lets smear back.

[Richandler]

The Blackwater thing is so bad because the Iraqi constitution, as a condition for US endorsement, exluded these private contractors from the rules of war.

[TheIndependent]

I don't know. This is NOT a big deal, not in the least. I mean, how can someone control WHO DONATES to you. I mean, look at Shillary, based on her record - every high dollar donor is some sort of corruption case.....

I am sure "if" we search we can find some HARDCORE socialists who donate to hillary etc.. and some high powered corrupt people donating to others.. so if they want to smear Ron Paul, fine --- lets smear back.

I guarantee the pundits are going to bring this up, and it will be a factor. Keep in mind that association equates to implication in the eyes of a lot of people. It's best to prepare a unified and cogent defense and present it when the smear begins.

[pdog]

This is not a bad thing. It shows that Prince's outfit is probably very loyal to the ideals we uphold. In fact, if Ron Paul ever starts to get even bigger money rolling in and higher poll numbers, he should hire a security detail from Blackwater to protect him.

[TheIndependent]

This is not a bad thing. It shows that Prince's outfit is probably very loyal to the ideals we uphold. In fact, if Ron Paul ever starts to get even bigger money rolling in and higher poll numbers, he should hire a security detail from Blackwater to protect him.

Perhaps you don't understand the complexity of explaining to the general public or even anti-war voters supporting this campaign that may not understand that Prince's donations to Paul and the fact that Blackwater is responsible for unjustified killing are mutually exclusive situations that should have no bearing on one another.

And to hire Blackwater as security detail for Paul with this in the media, well, you might as well ask the campaign to give up and go home because it'll feed the beast with every bit of ammunition against this campaign (through demonstrated association) it could possibly ever want or need.

Nobody is going to look at this and say "Well, Prince believes in what Ron Paul is saying!" when his employees are implicated in killing without the predication of self-defense and that's what gets splashed all over the media. Cold-blooded killing, at that.

[aksmith]

FTFA:



Just note this tidbit of info as something he could potentially be smeared with. Now that we know we are in a position to defend it.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2003948606_blackwater14.html

Here's the defense. Prince is a private citizen. How would Ron Paul even know who he is or was, when he donated. In fact, he may not have donated after he formed Blackwater. And in fact, Ron Paul has not voted to authorize any of the money that was paid to Blackwater, so Prince either loves liberty or he made a terrible investment in Ron Paul, a congressman who can't be bought.

[TheIndependent]

Here's the defense. Prince is a private citizen. How would Ron Paul even know who he is or was, when he donated. In fact, he may not have donated after he formed Blackwater. And in fact, Ron Paul has not voted to authorize any of the money that was paid to Blackwater, so Prince either loves liberty or he made a terrible investment in Ron Paul, a congressman who can't be bought.

Precisely.

[BarryDonegan]

there doesn't need to be a defense for this. libertarians are very pro-privatization and 2nd ammendment. their platform makes sense to small government types such as security contractors; idealogically.

some times people give money to a candidate to buy a vote, sometimes they do it bc the candidate in question just already promotes ideals that would benefit them.

a libertarian thinking and hands off government would benefit a private security firm in a lot of ways. they would still most definately be subject to U.S. laws though. the problems that blackwater is having are related to the vacuum they are in; they are in a place with uninforceable laws, and the individuals in the employ of blackwater are acting as such.

im sure blackwater is not wild about it happening, they just can't well control it when the power structure in a country is so fucked that they can't enforce their own laws.

FYI... theres nothing stopping the US citizens from hiring blackwater to defend us in the event of martial law ;)

[MicroBalrog]

So what?

Blackwater is a huge and legal corporation.

Yes, their employees screwed up recently in Iraq.

Guess what? US soldiers also screw up in Iraq, a lot.

This no more means Prince is responsible for the recent screw-ups then Petraeus is responsible when some US soldier abuses some Iraqi (which does sometimes happen), because it's neither the policy of the US Army nor of the Blackwater Corporation to commit these crimes.

[Paulitician]

Doesn't this "private" company receive tax payer subsidies? (I haven't researched it, despite its coverage). That's what I've heard at least. So it would seem it is part of the corporatism/military-industrial complex Ron Paul speaks up against, no?

[B964]

Does anyone one know when he donated to Dr. Paul?

This could only help.

The man must be pro 2nd amendment.
He also may be anti-war.
Maybe he is a economist at heart.
Maybe he has children and worries about thier future.

I don't think his company would have less to do if we pulled out of Iraq, perhaps more.

[MicroBalrog]

Doesn't this "private" company receive tax payer subsidies? (I haven't researched it, despite its coverage). That's what I've heard at least. So it would seem it is part of the corporatism/military-industrial complex Ron Paul speaks up against, no?

THey have government contracts.

It's one thing to provide the government with a service and be paid for it and quite another to receive subsidies.

[Bradley in DC]

Does anyone one know when he donated to Dr. Paul?

This could only help.

The man must be pro 2nd amendment.
He also may be anti-war.
Maybe he is a economist at heart.
Maybe he has children and worries about thier future.

I don't think his company would have less to do if we pulled out of Iraq, perhaps more.

More likely he just donates to everyone thinking he'll "have access" on Capitol Hill. :rolleyes:

[Cowlesy]

More likely he just donates to everyone thinking he'll "have access" on Capitol Hill. :rolleyes:

CORRECT.

When your firm is estimated to be worth over a billion greenbacks, it's easy to spread the love.

[FluffyUnbound]

If Paul received a donation from this guy several years ago, it's not a big deal.

Several years ago Blackwater was essentially just a big private security company. It's only recently that they graduated into being an evil private army.

Blackwater is going to be a sore subject among Paul's libertarian supporters because private armies are kind of an ideological dividing line in libbie academic circles. On one hand you have people who would gladly see the state wither away to the point where even military and police functions are taken over by companies like Blackwater. And on the other side you have the more Randian libertarians who mistrust private armies as incipiently barbaric and want the police power entrusted only to the state, where it can be kept in line using the Constitution. I tend to be more on the latter side, so I look at Blackwater and see an organization that is fundamentally dangerous and essentially criminal in its very conception.

I guess I also hate Blackwater because I have my own little conspiracy theory [and hey, we all get to let our hair down and come clean about our conspiracy theories here, right?] where Blackwater is a critical piece of the Dominionist effort to subvert the Constitution. For the Regent University types to achieve their ultimate political goals, they need an armed force that will listen to them and that does not reflect the diversity of American political opinion and is not bound by the professional traditions of the US military. Something like Blackwater can be that force.

[american.swan]

Naomi Wolf's book "End of America" has a chapter on Blackwater that isn't too pretty.

[ButchHowdy]

The cronyism is indeed stinky, the fact that Blackwater went from near bankruptcy to the behemoth it is today is suspicious, but Divine intervention can be at work as well.

The amount of private contractors in Iraq is at 180000 and has now surpassed the number of military at 160000 http://www.boston.com/news/globe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2007/09/30/the_shadow_army/

In scripture; each time Israel went-a-whoring, God raised someone bigger and stronger to punish them.

[Shink]

I don't know. This is NOT a big deal, not in the least. I mean, how can someone control WHO DONATES to you. I mean, look at Shillary, based on her record - every high dollar donor is some sort of corruption case.....

I am sure "if" we search we can find some HARDCORE socialists who donate to hillary etc.. and some high powered corrupt people donating to others.. so if they want to smear Ron Paul, fine --- lets smear back.

Murdoch is a big headstart. Anyway, Blackwater gets defended by 'conservative' talking heads all the time, so I think we're fine.

[atilla]

This is not a bad thing. It shows that Prince's outfit is probably very loyal to the ideals we uphold. In fact, if Ron Paul ever starts to get even bigger money rolling in and higher poll numbers, he should hire a security detail from Blackwater to protect him.
if george w refuses to turn over the white house after ron paul is inaugerated, we know where to turn for help.

[Shink]

I've heard somewhere that Ron's huge with the Blackwater guys--makes sense.

[militant]

this is a high profile donor favored and defended by mainstream republicans. if it gets brought up, smile about it, enjoy it just a little, it COULD help. if someone asks about the problems in iraq with his company, just say that paul doesn't control the company and has been busy working in congress and running his campaign.

[American]

You guys are funny, like we could do anything about it to being with in the first place. Now you want to create problems that dont exist.

Freedom message is popular, Prince donated almost twenty years ago when there was no Blackwater.

Lets move on....

[cac1963]

this is a high profile donor favored and defended by mainstream republicans. if it gets brought up, smile about it, enjoy it just a little, it COULD help. if someone asks about the problems in iraq with his company, just say that paul doesn't control the company and has been busy working in congress and running his campaign.

Hillary is currently catching alot of heat from the left blogosphere (http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2007/10/6/185516/919) over her connections to Blackwater, fyi. It's the left who'll use these donations against Paul, especially if they're able to defeat Clinton in the primaries.

[Delivered4000]

Yeah, but this was probably before the Blackwater scandals

[cjhowe]

Does anyone one know when he donated to Dr. Paul?

This could only help.

The man must be pro 2nd amendment.
He also may be anti-war.
Maybe he is a economist at heart.
Maybe he has children and worries about thier future.

I don't think his company would have less to do if we pulled out of Iraq, perhaps more.

11/24/1995 - 1000
4/22/1996 - 1000

While he was an employee of the U.S. NAVY!!

Shortly thereafter he contributed to such PAC as The Susan B. Anthony List (goal is to elect pro-life women) and Restoring the American Dream (principles are restoring individual responsibility, traditional values, respecting human life, overhauling our tax system, understanding the limits of government, protecting our faith and families, defending America)

[skiingff]

http://www.unionleader.com/uploads/media-items/cartoons/new%20folder/o12edcartoon_470px.jpg

[Adamsa]

Businesses should start to support Paul as he gains traction anyway. Blackwater has bad press and done some questionable things, but it isn't illegal at the same time.

[KingTheoden]

The idea of Blackwater doesn't bother me at all. I think it is fine that there is a company, generally populated by ex-military, who offer security services. The problem is their application in Iraq; indeed, the entire operation in Iraq is something that should never have occurred.

I do not think this is at all a big deal. There have squads of regular military that have done very bad things in Iraq, but that does not mean the military as a whole is indictable.

[Brian4Liberty]

http://www.lewrockwell.com/blog/lewrw/archives/016102.html

"October 14, 2007
More WaPo Disinfo On Ron Paul
Posted by Daniel McAdams at October 14, 2007 12:22 PM

Reading this weekend's Washington Post piece on Blackwater founder Erik Prince, I came across a paragraph that perplexed me:

"Prince was a White House intern under President George H.W. Bush. His political donations over the past two decades total almost $263,000 to Pat Buchanan, Oliver North, Rep. Ron Paul (R-Tex.) and former senator Rick Santorum, a Pennsylvania Republican, among others."

What? Why would an individual who has profited to the tune of several billion dollars from the drug war and the Iraq and Afghanistan war be giving money to the most antiwar and anti-war-on-drugs Member of Congress? Catholic guilt?

So I decided to do some looking around.

First I went to the Federal Election Commission website and checked contributors to Dr. Paul's presidential campaign. No Erik Prince.

Then I looked at Dr. Paul's contributors to every congressional race since 2001 (pre-Blackwater bonanza days). No Erik Prince.

Then I cross-checked all of Erik Prince's political giving, going back to 2001 on CQ's excellent Moneyline website. Nothing.

Surely the reporter didn't make this up?

Ah, finally found it! When Ron Paul returned to Congress in 1995 Prince gave $1,000. Then he gave another $1,000 the next year. Nothing since then. And Prince's listed profession when he gave two grand to Ron Paul? US Navy!

That equals less than one-one hundredth of what Prince is said to have given to dozens of GOP recipients, yet somehow that same Washington Post that doesn't seem to know that Ron Paul even exists saw fit to print it without clarification or explanation, leaving the reader to conclude that Ron Paul is just another candidate who gets money from the military industrial complex that he (pretends) to rail about.

This is called "disinformation," and from Ron Paul to the wars they are shilling for against Iran and Syria, the Washington Post is proving itself a master that would have made Trotsky proud. "

[MicroBalrog]

There's nothing wrong with Ron receiving money from E. Prince, even if he were giving this money now.

[Johncjackson]

If anything it just shows that contributions do not influence RP and he can't be bought.

Blackwater would benefit from a continued Iraq War and continued military presence around the world. Ron Paul wants to bring troops home.

There is no way to smear RP with this info. He is 100% against the Iraq occupation. If he were FOR war, then smeone could make an argument-that Blackwater was paying him to support the war so they could profit.