Use the Gulf disaster to push for legalization of Industrial Hemp

[Razmear]

Did you know that all the oil used in the US can be grown at home?
The US has 922,095,840 acres of farmland. (source USDA)
Industrial Hemp produces 1000 gallons of methanol per acre per harvest.
Industrial Hemp also can be turned into resin to make plastics, which accounts for about 35% of US oil usage.

The US consumes 321,930,000,000 gallons of oil per year for all purposes (gas, plastics, etc).

If 100% of US farmland was used to grow Industrial Hemp, 922,095,840,000 gallons of methanol could be produced.
Using 35% of US Farmland would exceed the amount of gallons of oil used per year in methanol production. Methanol is diesel engine compatible without further refinement, and burns a lot cleaner.
I need further data on the plastics side of the equation, but replacing all petroleum based products is doable with Industrial Hemp.
After all why do you think the oil companies had it banned back in 1937? Henry Ford had already built a car from Hemp Resin and fueled it with hemp based fuels just a few years prior to the prohibition of the plant that has served the people of this planet for over 10,000 years.
You are being lied to. We don't need Oil, We don't need to fight wars for oil, We don't need to die for oil, we don't need to drill for it anymore, and we certainly don't need it spilling into our Gulf.
Please use this crises to push for the legalization of Industrial Hemp, it is our planets only hope for a sustainable future.

eb

[WaltM]

Good thinking!

http://207.199.174.56/img/EIjCOFNTdS_opportunism-with-25m-in-the-bank-even-a-wicked-witch-can-become-president-of-the-united-states.jpg

[BuddyRey]

This is what I've been saying too, but so many people are so ignorant about hemp that they actually think it's marijuana, and that those of us who are calling for its legalization are just using the industrial benefits as a pretext for "getting stoned." Even many of the people here at the RPF's seem to have generally bought into the propaganda.

[Fox McCloud]

It's interesting, but I question the statistics; as far as I know we're the only country that actively bans hemp; if hemp was really that great as a fuel, why aren't other countries using it to directly compete against oil?

I'm fine with legalizing it and stopping all energy subsidies, but until I see more data (after all, gallons is truly a meaningless term here; I need to know how much energy one gallon can produce--if 1 gallon of oil is equal to 10 gallons of methanol, well, we have a problem), I'm going to remain skeptical

[Razmear]

Do your own googling Fox. The data is out there.
The EU has just started legalizing Industrial Hemp, and Canada only grows around 50,000 acres in overly regulated plots.

eb

[axiomata]

Never let a good crisis go to waste, aye. ;)

[aravoth]

I wrote about this a while back.

http://objectsinmotion.org/the-alternative-2/

[Fox McCloud]

It's interesting, but the research I'm gathering says otherwise.

There's conflicting information on how much methanol is produced (there's also the case of what we're talking about here; methanol or ethanol)--there's the 1000 gallon claim I see on one particular hemp site and the much more common 100-120 gallon claim by others.

in any event, if we go with the 1000 gallon claim and I assume your numbers are right...the conversion of methanol to gasoline isn't so grand; you'd require 2.1 gallons of methanol to equal 1 gallon of oil; this alone kicks up your gallons consumed, per year, to 459 billion gallons per year....which, in turns kicks up the amount of farmland to 50%, which is already showing me how unfeasible this is, even in the event of de-regulation, legalization, and removing subsidies.

You also have to factor in the costs of raising said hemp to maturity vs the cost of drilling+refining one gallon of oil; I don't have these statistics, but I know it's very unfavorable for corn (though that is ethanol and an entirely different plant, I know). I'd love to see these numbers too, but they're very difficult to come by.

You also have to factor in what the methanol can be used for or the various uses you can use hemp for (for example, you can use hemp oil for bio-diesel, but it's wayyyyy more profitable to sell the oil as a food product).

Please, don't take this as a "we should keep hemp illegal and blow it off" by all means, legalize it! Remove subsidies to every energy industry (all of them, oil, nuclear, coal, etc get them...every single one); then we can see which one will win. Heck, maybe you guys are right, but just looking at some numbers and doing some quick and dirty math makes me question otherwise.

my biggest fear is that it'd just turn into another corn fiasco; they'll end up subsidizing the living daylights out for it for being supposedly "greener" (and you have to admit, most of the arguments made in favor of this stem from your localism/fair trader/greenie types) and we end up with another disaster.

[JeNNiF00F00]

..

[aravoth]

werent the first cars designed to run on hemp?

yes

[Krugerrand]

The Coconut Revolution (2001, 50min) (480x360) (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=9073157933630784238#)

When you see these people fueling their revolution on coconut oil ... it probably isn't a bad idea to have something like a hemp alternative already in place. Even if it's not the most efficient - anything you can produce yourself is something that you don't long for on the other side of a blockade.

[Bruno]

Some hemp pics I took here a few years back

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=238344&highlight=bruno+hemp+ames

Hemp could also be grown in many states in otherwise unused roadside ditches

[Icymudpuppy]

I've been saying this for years. However, I do have one correction to make to the OP.

Methanol is not diesel compatible. Methanol is "Racing" fuel. It's what Drag racers and Nascar use instead of Gasoline in Otto Cycle engines. It is highly explosive, evaporative, and will cause vapor-lock and damage to the cams in a diesel engine just like running gasoline in a diesel.

Methanol (CH3OH) is a key ingredient in the production of biodiesel. Mixed with NaOH (sodium Hydroxide aka plumbers lye) you get another compound which separates the glycerine (active ingredient in soap) from the vegetable oils, thinning the fuel and allowing it to be injected as a mist into the combustion chamber. Cold vegetable oil without the glycerine removed first will give uneven globular spray into the combustion chamber and a much less efficient combustion resulting in lower fuel economy, more particulate emissions (smog), and buildup of carbon deposits on the piston and rings.

1 gallon Vegetable oil + 1 quart Methanol + 1 Tbsp NaOH = 1 gallon biodiesel + 1 quart gelled glycerine

Put the biodiesel in your truck, mix the glycerine with stabilizers to make soap, or with Nitrogen fertilizer to make explosive.

[Razmear]

Thanks for the clarification Icy. I'm really just starting to research this myself and I know that I don't know all the details yet.
Fox, I did some more searching and found numbers in the 100-600 gallons of methanol range per acre as well. One of the first sites I found stated 1000. Not sure which is more true, and who knows what the true numbers would be if the past 70 years could have been used researching and further refining the processes.
I also agree that it should not be subsidized, and neither should oil or anything else, all I am asking for is that it be legalized so that it can compete with oil in the free market.
There is no rational reason to keep Hemp illegal except to protect the interests of Big Oil and other industries who would have to compete with a cheap and renewable resource.

btw, great vid here:
YouTube - Hemp for the industry (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kybQTtnJjQA)
shows how it can be used as a building material, as a fiberglass substitute, and more.

eb

[w2992]

the good thing about hemp is that it will grow almost anywhere. doesnt need to compete w farmland. it could replace ragweed please. doesnt require any pesticides and little water.

[RCA]

This is what I've been saying too, but so many people are so ignorant about hemp that they actually think it's marijuana, and that those of us who are calling for its legalization are just using the industrial benefits as a pretext for "getting stoned." Even many of the people here at the RPF's seem to have generally bought into the propaganda.

So...what's the best hemp "Cliff's Notes"?

[Bruno]

I've posted this before, but for those who haven't seen it, here it is.

The reason hemp (aka "ditchweed") grows wild throughout the Midwest is because those plants are ancestors of the ones planted by patriotric farmers responding to U.S. govt. requests to grow it for the war effort. The Manilla Hemp lines where cut off by the Japanese, so farmers were enlisted to resupply the hemp used for clothing, ropes, parachutes, etc.

YouTube - Hemp For Victory (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ne9UF-pFhJY)

[youngbuck]

It will be a glorious day when I can legally grow my own hemp.

[Razmear]

The audio on that vid seems to be almost a full minute out of synch. Still a classic tho.

[jkr]

I've been saying this for years. However, I do have one correction to make to the OP.

Methanol is not diesel compatible. Methanol is "Racing" fuel. It's what Drag racers and Nascar use instead of Gasoline in Otto Cycle engines. It is highly explosive, evaporative, and will cause vapor-lock and damage to the cams in a diesel engine just like running gasoline in a diesel.

.

not to pick but...i h8 NAPcar...
they used gasoline.

Champ cars used to run methanol... so do sprint cars and other things.
some papers say it is a better economy than ethanol period point blank.
that is why the iRl "winning" thier civil war was bad-the tech in place vs champ cars.:eek:

[Bruno]

The audio on that vid seems to be almost a full minute out of synch. Still a classic tho.

Sorry about that. There's probably a better version out there.

I purchased the VHS back in 1995. I had lost it in a move, and was always bummed about it. Then along came youtube... :D

[dannno]

It's interesting, but I question the statistics; as far as I know we're the only country that actively bans hemp; if hemp was really that great as a fuel, why aren't other countries using it to directly compete against oil?



Because they regulate it too much.. You can only grow so much of it, you can only grow it here, it has to be secure (why? it's not a drug.. nobody knows..)

[Travlyr]

It will be a glorious day when I can legally grow my own hemp.

And that is true for everybody. :) Hemp has many benefits and it should have never been banned in the first place.

For those of you who do not know why it was banned:

Hemp, or cannabis, or marijuana was outlawed in 1937 because it threatened the nation-less corporate interests of - William Randolph Hearst * and - DuPont. They had to get rid of the competition. - Hearst's yellow journalism newspaper chain wrote scathing stories about "marijuana" - a word he made up - because he knew no one would believe them about hemp, which George Washington himself grew hemp.

The decorticator, a state of the art hemp harvester, led Popular Mechanics to call hemp the New Billion Dollar Crop. - - Because of printing and bindery lead time required for publication, this February 1938 article was actually prepared in the spring of 1937, when cannabis hemp was still legal to grow and was an incredibly fast-growing industry. - - Newsprint could now be produced far more cheaply than any other method, and one acre of hemp could produce as much newsprint as four acres of forest trees. - Hearst owned vast timber acreage and competition from the hemp industry might have driven his paper manufacturing out of business. He stood to lose millions of dollars.

DuPont stood to lose on two fronts. DuPont owned the patent for converting wood pulp into newsprint and supplied Hearst with the necessary chemicals. Secondly, in the 1930s DuPont was gearing up to introduce nylon and other man-made fibers, along with synthetic petrochemical oils, which they hoped would replace hemp see oil used in paints and other products. The decorticator meant that hemp fibers could be manufactured as fine as any man-made fibers. DuPont would lose untold millions of invested dollars, plus an estimated 80 percent of all future business, unless hemp was outlawed.

More here: http://www.venusproject.com/ethics_in_action/Real_Reason_Hemp_Illegal.html

The "it's just a way for potheads to grow their own legally" opposition crowd has a point. Not that I agree with them, but it would be very easy to grow "hemp with THC" in and around industrial hemp. Legalizing hemp would be analogous to legalizing pot, and it would be nice if it was legalized tomorrow morning.

[Bruno]

And that is true for everybody. :) Hemp has many benefits and it should have never been banned in the first place.

For those of you who do not know why it was banned:


The "it's just a way for potheads to grow their own legally" opposition crowd has a point. Not that I agree with them, but it would be very easy to grow "hemp with THC" in and around industrial hemp. Legalizing hemp would be analogous to legalizing pot, and it would be nice if it was legalized tomorrow morning.

While you could grow cannabis around hemp, the two would be as different as night and day. Hemp fields are grown in tight rows. Pot for smoking needs much more room. And the variety would also be noticably different to even an average layman.

But the argument persists. The Candians and others seemed to have worked around it. We should learn from them. (rather we just just make it all legal/end prohibition anyway)

[Travlyr]

While you could grow cannabis around hemp, the two would be as different as night and day. Hemp fields are grown in tight rows. Pot for smoking needs much more room. And the variety would also be noticably different to even an average layman.


Okay. Point taken. :cool:

[Bruno]

Okay. Point taken. :cool:

Check out the wild hemp pics in my link at post #12 if you haven't already. Generally much paler, thinner leaves, grows taller, and very woody stalks.

[Travlyr]

Check out the wild hemp pics in my link at post #12 if you haven't already. Generally much paler, thinner leaves, grows taller, and very woody stalks.

I see the difference is rather stark. It's just that I could argue for a month with my older neo-con brother about it... and he will remain steadfast nonetheless. We don't need people driving around while high on dope... yada... yada... yada... :rolleyes:

[Bruno]

I see the difference is rather stark. It's just that I could argue for a month with my older neo-con brother about it... and he will remain steadfast nonetheless. We don't need people driving around while high on dope... yada... yada... yada... :rolleyes:

Some people are hard to reach, and simply don't want to stray from their comfort zone of belief.

Driving around high is already illegal. But maybe it shouldn't be. Iowa DOT study showed little or even positive effects.


THEORY: MARIJUANA "INTOXICATION" IS HAZARDOUS TO DRIVING
FACT: SCIENTIFIC TESTS OVER 2 AND 1/2 DECADES HAVE NOT SUBSTANTIALLY CONFIRMED THIS THEORY. In fact, marijuana use may slightly improve driving performance, according to science. Two studies (one indexed below) have shown a negative correlation between marijuana and accidents.

http://www.iowatelecom.net/~sharkhaus/driving.html

[BuddyRey]

So...what's the best hemp "Cliff's Notes"?

I would recommend a book called The Emperor Wears No Clothes by Jack Herer. It goes into a lot of detail regarding the political and industrial alliance that was able to have hemp successfully banned, and contains a great deal of information while still being an accessible and entertaining read.

[Razmear]

Here is another 'cliff notes' of why hemp was banned:

http://www.thc-ministry.net/untoldstory/hemp_5.html

also googling: why hemp was banned
will bring up lots of info.

from the above link:


After Alcohol Prohibition ended in 1933, funding for the Federal Bureau of Narcotics (now the Drug Enforcement Administration) was reduced. The FBN's own director, Harry J. Anslinger, then became a leading advocate of Marijuana Prohibition. In 1937 Anslinger testified before Congress in favor of Marijuana Prohibition by saying: "Marijuana is the most violence causing drug in the history of mankind." "Most marijuana smokers are Negroes, Hispanics, Filipinos and entertainers. Their Satanic music, jazz and swing, result from marijuana usage. This marijuana causes white women to seek sexual relations with Negroes." Marijuana Prohibition is founded on lies and rooted in racism, prejudice, and ignorance. Just as politicians believed Harry J. Anslinger to be a marijuana expert in 1937, many people still believe law enforcement officials are marijuana experts. In reality, law enforcement officials have no expert knowledge of marijuana's medical or health effects, but they do represent an industry that receives billions of tax dollars to enforce Marijuana Prohibition.


eb

[Fox McCloud]

Sorry about that. There's probably a better version out there.

I purchased the VHS back in 1995. I had lost it in a move, and was always bummed about it. Then along came youtube... :D

I already delved into some "quick and dirty" statistics on hemp and methanol and it pretty much shows that it'd unlikely to completely replace oil--it might compete, slightly, but on a small scale.

[catdd]

Never let a good disaster go to waste.

[Razmear]

Bump:

H.R. 1866: Industrial Hemp Farming Act
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h111-1866
Sponsored by Ron Paul !!!

Time to get this out of committee and on to the floor for a vote.

Last Action: May 26, 2009: House Judiciary: Referred to the Subcommittee on Crime, Terrorism, and Homeland Security.

Hemp is the solution to our dependency on Foreign Oil (and domestic too)

I wasn't aware of this bill till I saw the HR # on a BP Protest sign just now on the news....

[TCE]

Bump:

H.R. 1866: Industrial Hemp Farming Act
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h111-1866
Sponsored by Ron Paul !!!

Time to get this out of committee and on to the floor for a vote.

Last Action: May 26, 2009: House Judiciary: Referred to the Subcommittee on Crime, Terrorism, and Homeland Security.

Hemp is the solution to our dependency on Foreign Oil (and domestic too)

I wasn't aware of this bill till I saw the HR # on a BP Protest sign just now on the news....

If anyone hasn't already, please shoot your Rep. an email.

[Razmear]

Really old bump.
Had to find this post to quote to another one, figured it deserved a bump.

eb

[Razmear]

Bump for DJLoti.
Just so he isn't the only one with recent posts about the Gulf.

[TCE]

Wow, 24 co-sponsors including some powerful members of the House. I will be sending my Rep another Email and I hope you guys do the same. Most Democrats are pretty open to this.