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View Full Version : US Warns It Cannot Guard Arizona Section of Border




hillbilly123069
06-18-2010, 02:29 AM
The DC crime ring is getting stupid. I was born in Phoenix. I'm ready to go find the local militia and enlist! Seriously, all the money these pricks have been syphoning out of us the last 10 years for HOMELAND SECURITY? This is an admission of incompetence by these idiots.
http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/border-arizona-closed-mexico/2010/06/16/id/362195

hillbilly123069
06-18-2010, 05:43 AM
Uptick in Violence Forces Closing of Parkland Along Mexico Border to Americans
*About 3,500 acres of southern Arizona along the Mexican border is closed to U.S. citizens due to increased violence in the region*
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/06/16/closes-park-land-mexico-border-americans/

fisharmor
06-18-2010, 05:55 AM
Where in those articles does it say the US warned it can't protect the border?
Are we assuming that's implied, since the area is closed off?

Yeah, here's a good article on "homeland security"...
http://www.lewrockwell.com/vance/vance119.html

We have two departments of defense now,
One is supposed to be the department of war and isn't supposed to keep standing armies,
and the other is unconstitutional.
Welcome to America.

FrankRep
06-18-2010, 06:01 AM
Texas (http://www.texasnationalist.com/) and Arizona should both secede from the union together. Oklahoma will likely follow.

TonySutton
06-18-2010, 06:06 AM
Texas (http://www.texasnationalist.com/) and Arizona should both secede from the union together. Oklahoma will likely follow.

If they do, I hope they allow immigration from the north ;)

fisharmor
06-18-2010, 06:06 AM
Texas (http://www.texasnationalist.com/) and Arizona should both secede from the union together. Oklahoma will likely follow.

All it'll take is one to start the chain reaction.
Montana, Vermont, New Hampshire... though unfortunately, the Commonwealth of Virginia has a history of being the center of attention when it comes to secession, and also a large part of the population has crocodile's jaws on the federal tit, so I'll probably have to move when it starts happening....

Dr.3D
06-18-2010, 06:19 AM
Where in those articles does it say the US warned it can't protect the border?
Are we assuming that's implied, since the area is closed off?

Yeah, here's a good article on "homeland security"...
http://www.lewrockwell.com/vance/vance119.html

We have two departments of defense now,
One is supposed to be the department of war and isn't supposed to keep standing armies,
and the other is unconstitutional.
Welcome to America.

From what I've read in other articles, they claim they can't use vehicles in those parks and thus can't protect the border as well as they would if they could use vehicles.

7_digitz
06-18-2010, 06:23 AM
easy solution, bring home the troops

Live_Free_Or_Die
06-18-2010, 06:50 AM
Free people do not beg other people for resources to secure their property. Shit or get off the pot Arizona. Raise a state militia or stop bitching.

tangent4ronpaul
06-18-2010, 07:38 AM
From what I've read in other articles, they claim they can't use vehicles in those parks and thus can't protect the border as well as they would if they could use vehicles.

hmmmm....

http://blog.lib.umn.edu/deg/campfire/images/ah64_2.jpg

They happen to be made in Masa AZ and the AZ NG flies them...

just an idea...

beyond that, if the feds won't, AZ should! Just like the states in the Gulf are doing! Point out the gvmts incompetence and getting in the way instead of fixing the problem will go a long way toward getting power back from the fud guv!

pie ==> face ==> WIN!

:D

-t

Toureg89
06-18-2010, 07:49 AM
predator UAV would be cheaper to operate

Carole
06-18-2010, 08:26 AM
Comments say this park was closed four years ago.

Comments say that this Paul Bab is a total loser who is in this for political gain.

Regardless of these comments, the border needs to be secured. Is this not an invasion by drug dealers, other criminals/illegals?

At some point, we must admit that our government is at war against the American people.

tangent4ronpaul
06-18-2010, 08:27 AM
Succession is an interesting concept from a military contracting POV. When the USSR fell, their states kept all the nukes and other mil hardware. Just considering the Apache, if AZ succeeded they would have the Pentagon by the balls as the factory is there. OTOH, things like hellfire missiles and chain gun chow probably are not made in AZ, so their usefulness defending the state would be limited.

Viewed from that rubric, the states with reps on committees responsible for military procurement are most likely to come out on top. At the same time, the distribution of parts and munitions manufacture being spread out would act as a safety valve against succession being successful, unless done by more than one state.

That wouldn't apply to states like MT, ND and CT (the sub base) who would suddenly find themselves in the position of nuclear superpowers - but also in the awkward position of the guy that brought a hand grenade to a knife fight...

Another factor is that most mil personnel trained in a particular task (outside of the NG) are most likely not from that state, so loyalty to the state vs the fed gvmt would be an issue.

If AZ did this and the Feds were stupid enough to try to take back control by force, I think we would see a domino effect. The fall of a house of cards.

-t

Pericles
06-18-2010, 08:41 AM
Free people do not beg other people for resources to secure their property. Shit or get off the pot Arizona. Raise a state militia or stop bitching.

Thread winner!

Acala
06-18-2010, 09:12 AM
Free people do not beg other people for resources to secure their property. Shit or get off the pot Arizona. Raise a state militia or stop bitching.

Quit taking all our money in Federal taxes and you've got a deal!

idirtify
06-18-2010, 09:33 AM
Originally Posted by Live_Free_Or_Die
Free people do not beg other people for resources to secure their property. Shit or get off the pot Arizona. Raise a state militia or stop bitching.

Quit taking all our money in Federal taxes and you've got a deal!

Both good points.


some comic relief:

So US citizens are restricted from the area because the US is unable to restrict Mexicans from the area?? HMMM. If the US can not keep illegals out, how is it going to keep US out???

Picture this future: The feds finally decide to secure this section of the border, but not like you think. As you enter the area, you see a border guard patrolling every 100 feet along the border, and one instructs you to leave “because we can not secure this area from dangerous illegals coming in”. Then you realize that the guards are actually guarding the illegals and aiming their guns at YOU.

heavenlyboy34
06-18-2010, 09:48 AM
Texas (http://www.texasnationalist.com/) and Arizona should both secede from the union together. Oklahoma will likely follow.

I'd be down for that! :cool::D

tangent4ronpaul
06-18-2010, 10:29 AM
Texas (http://www.texasnationalist.com/) and Arizona should both secede from the union together. Oklahoma will likely follow.

To be effective, NM would have to also. And then AZ would need to build a fence on it's western border...

-t

TNforPaul45
06-18-2010, 12:11 PM
If Texas goes, Tennessee should go with it.

jkr
06-18-2010, 12:47 PM
we cant protect your freedom becuase we are giving it to iraq

Live_Free_Or_Die
06-18-2010, 01:13 PM
Quit taking all our money in Federal taxes and you've got a deal!

Stop paying via civil disobedience or state interposition utilizing nullification or withholding federal monies until the states petition for redress of grievances to congress is addressed.

In the meantime stop bitching and raise a state militia even if it is a volunteer militia with no payment or funded on donations. All the state needs to do is authorize a state militia utilizing force to enforce trespassing.

John Taylor
06-18-2010, 01:28 PM
Stop paying via civil disobedience or state interposition utilizing nullification or withholding federal monies until the states petition for redress of grievances to congress is addressed.

In the meantime stop bitching and raise a state militia even if it is a volunteer militia with no payment or funded on donations. All the state needs to do is authorize a state militia utilizing force to enforce trespassing.

This is the solution here in AZ, because at present, civil liability for private actions to secure and interdict illegals trespassing deter the good folks of AZ from assisting law enforcement with a presence with backbone on the border.

Acala
06-18-2010, 01:30 PM
Stop paying via civil disobedience or state interposition utilizing nullification or withholding federal monies until the states petition for redress of grievances to congress is addressed.

In the meantime stop bitching and raise a state militia even if it is a volunteer militia with no payment or funded on donations. All the state needs to do is authorize a state militia utilizing force to enforce trespassing.

I support outright secession - but we are not there yet. First the Federal government has to run out of funny money so that it can't pay its thugs or bribe the states to stay in the union. And then people have to come to the full realization that Uncle Sugar is a scam. THEN if several states act in concert, we can do it. And probably with nary a shot fired. Following the model of the Soviet breakup.

As for not bitching in the meantime, one of the very few things that the Federal government does that it is actually authorized to do under the Constitution is police the border. And it is failing to do that. We are paying for a service we are not getting. Why should we not bitch about it? And, arguably, the states are not allowed to police International borders under the Constitution as that is a power expressly granted to the Federal government. That is where Arizona's recent law is going to fall. Not because of the supposed racist implications, but because it usurps a Federal function.

By the way, I am an advocate of open borders. But that only works with minimalist government. I support Arizona's recent efforts not because I think immigration is our real problem but because I think anything that helps widen the rift between the states and the Federal government brings us closer to the only likely hope for a new liberty - the break up of the union.

eOs
06-18-2010, 01:37 PM
By the way, I am an advocate of open borders. But that only works with minimalist government. I support Arizona's recent efforts not because I think immigration is our real problem but because I think anything that helps widen the rift between the states and the Federal government brings us closer to the only likely hope for a new liberty - the break up of the union.

++ I agree. And the rhetoric in the forum's getting pretty hot lately. Pretty soon we're going to need Josh to encrypt the entire site and run it off of a darknet. :D

sevin
06-18-2010, 03:11 PM
Texas (http://www.texasnationalist.com/) and Arizona should both secede from the union together. Oklahoma will likely follow.

Won't happen until after Rick Perry is kicked out of office. (I don't care if he's mentioned the idea of secession a few times, he's full of shit.)

hillbilly123069
06-18-2010, 06:52 PM
Check out what's going on now!
http://www.abc15.com/dpp/news/region_central_southern_az/florence/citizen%27s-group-taking-border-battle-into-own-hands

susano
06-18-2010, 07:04 PM
Quit taking all our money in Federal taxes and you've got a deal!

Ding, ding, ding!

Secede and there goes sending all of the local money to the enemy. Imagine the money any state would have if it pulled out of ALL federal taxes. States may think they need federal money but it's their own damn money being doled out back to them!

On another note, that traitorous bitch, Hillary Clinton, told a FOREIGN GOVERNMENT that the US federal gov't was going to sue one of the members of union! There is no point to this union, anymore.

Live_Free_Or_Die
06-18-2010, 08:50 PM
This is the solution here in AZ, because at present, civil liability for private actions to secure and interdict illegals trespassing deter the good folks of AZ from assisting law enforcement with a presence with backbone on the border.

If there are illegal aliens as you suggest, which I do not agree is the case under constitutional law because in the constitution I read, there are only persons and citizens. But let's throw the constitution out the window and pretend like illegal aliens exist. What is an illegal person? What jurisdiction is an illegal person under? Is an illegal person a pirate? Is there any civil liability with regards to pirates?

If you are right and illegal persons exist why do you fear civil liability over pirates? You not not act as though you believe there is such a thing as illegal persons.

Your fear to act dictates I am de facto correct in that there is no such thing as an illegal person.

Although Mexico might not be all that excited about Arizona treating it's citizenry as pirates... that is a different matter.


As for not bitching in the meantime, one of the very few things that the Federal government does that it is actually authorized to do under the Constitution is police the border.

Feel free to take up lordindra3's challenge on page 16 of this thread:
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=249186&page=16