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FrankRep
06-16-2010, 02:31 PM
Speaking to the nation from the Oval Office of the White House on the evening of June 15, President Obama addressed the ongoing oil spill in the Gulf of Mexico and promised that he would demand that British Petroleum (BP) set up an account for compensating businesses and workers affected by one of the most devastating oil spills in U.S. history, despite the fact that the U.S. Constitution only allows the taking of property after companies and individuals have had their day in court. by Dave Bohon


Constitutional Concerns Raised as President Pledges to Make BP Pay for Spill (http://www.thenewamerican.com/index.php/usnews/constitution/3800-constitutional-concerns-raised-as-president-pledges-to-make-bp-pay-for-spill)


Dave Bohon | The New American (http://www.thenewamerican.com/)
Wednesday, 16 June 2010


Speaking to the nation from the Oval Office of the White House on the evening of June 15, President Obama addressed the ongoing oil spill in the Gulf of Mexico and promised that he would demand that British Petroleum (BP) set up an account for compensating businesses and workers affected by one of the most devastating oil spills in U.S. history.

Nearly two months after an explosion destroyed an off-shore BP rig, killing 11 and injuring another 17, an estimated 1.5 to 2.5 million gallons of crude oil continue to gush into the Gulf daily. The President called the resulting catastrophe “the worst environmental disaster America has ever faced,” adding that “unlike an earthquake or a hurricane, it’s not a single event that does its damage in a matter of minutes or days. The millions of gallons of oil that have spilled into the Gulf of Mexico are more like an epidemic, one that we will be fighting for months and even years.”

Painting a grim picture of a disaster that only the full force of the federal government would be equipped to address, Obama assured the nation that he and his team of expert scientists and engineers “will fight this spill with everything we’ve got for as long as it takes. We will make BP pay for the damage their company has caused. And we will do whatever’s necessary to help the Gulf Coast and its people recover from this tragedy.”

The President said that he would meet with BP’s chairman “and inform him that he is to set aside whatever resources are required to compensate the workers and business owners who have been harmed as a result of his company’s recklessness. And this fund will not be controlled by BP. In order to ensure that all legitimate claims are paid out in a fair and timely manner, the account must and will be administered by an independent third party.”

In tandem with the President’s pledge, on June 14 Democrats in the U.S. Senate sent a strongly worded letter to BP demanding that it set up an account to be used to pay for economic damages and cleanup costs associated with the spill. “In order to ensure BP fully and quickly covers the costs of this disaster,” the Senators wrote, “we are calling on BP to immediately establish a special account of $20 billion, administered by an independent trustee, to be used for payment of economic damages and clean-up costs. Establishment of this account would serve as an act of good faith and as a first step towards ensuring that there will be no delay in payments or attempt to evade responsibility for damages.”

While no one has suggested that BP is not liable for the damages that have been caused in the Gulf, serious questions have been raised about what constitutional authority the President has to make official demands on the company. In an editorial published following Obama’s address to the nation, Terence Jeffrey, editor-in-chief of the Conservative News Service, asked aloud what many Americans were wondering: “Where does the President get the lawful power to order any private-sector company — BP or any other — that it must surrender its money? Should not courts and normal legal proceedings determine who is responsible, who has been harmed, and who owes what to whom in regards to the Gulf oil spill?”

Calling the President’s actions toward BP tantamount to extortion, Representative Michele Bachmann (R-Minn.) was quoted by the Conservative News Service as saying that there is “a misreading of the Constitution and a misunderstanding of jurisdictional limits from this White House on what the extent of executive power is.” Bachmann said that what Obama and company seem to want is to “create a pot of money for themselves that they can control, and that’s not what the Executive is supposed to do. There is a real misreading of jurisdictional limits, and they continue to stretch those limits beyond all bounds.”

Noting that the Fifth Amendment to the Constitution ensures that no person shall be “deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law,” Jeffrey wondered what rights BP’s stockholders would be left with if the President has his way. “Does Obama think he can ‘inform’ persons and corporations to surrender or exchange their property without due process of law?” he asked. “Will Congress, the legislative branch of the federal government, have a say before Obama takes unilateral executive action in regard to how the government treats BP?”

The answer to that question is no, unless more voices like Bachmann’s — on both sides of the aisle — are raised to challenge the President’s heavy-handed assumptions.


SOURCE:
http://www.thenewamerican.com/index.php/usnews/constitution/3800-constitutional-concerns-raised-as-president-pledges-to-make-bp-pay-for-spill

Vessol
06-16-2010, 02:33 PM
P.S
Don't worry BP, we got you buddy. We just have to make sure that people don't think that we look too close. I'll make sure that any claim against you doesn't go over 75,000$.

Zippyjuan
06-16-2010, 02:36 PM
Is the president seizing any property?

“we are calling on BP to immediately establish a special account of $20 billion, administered by an independent trustee, to be used for payment of economic damages and clean-up costs.

Vessol
06-16-2010, 02:37 PM
I wonder who this "independent" third party is. And who got to choose them.

specsaregood
06-16-2010, 03:12 PM
Is the president seizing any property?

Nope sounds voluntary.

John Taylor
06-16-2010, 03:14 PM
Nope sounds voluntary.

Haha, of course it is.

specsaregood
06-16-2010, 03:16 PM
Haha, of course it is.

You aren't disagreeing are you? Until they seize it without permission, I don't see anything wrong here.

specsaregood
06-16-2010, 04:15 PM
Jason lewis is discussing this btw on the radio.
http://www.ktlkfm.com/mediaplayer/?station=KTLK-FM&action=listenlive&channel_title=

MelissaWV
06-16-2010, 04:19 PM
Well if you disagree with this, you hate everyone living near the Gulf! And baby dolphins! And sea turtles!

paulitics
06-16-2010, 04:29 PM
I don't understand why BP would not be insured for an accident like this, and why an insurance company would not pay for the damage in this situation.

specsaregood
06-16-2010, 04:35 PM
I don't understand why BP would not be insured for an accident like this, and why an insurance company would not pay for the damage in this situation.

You don't think BP is big enough to self insure?

squarepusher
06-16-2010, 04:40 PM
they should just seize BP, call it a day.

RonPaulwillWin
06-16-2010, 04:50 PM
Looks like Obama has appointed himself judge and jury.

Vessol
06-16-2010, 05:06 PM
You don't think BP is big enough to self insure?

Seriously. Their income was in the 240 billion dollar range in 2009.

Anti Federalist
06-16-2010, 06:29 PM
Is the president seizing any property?

Let's see...


The President said that he would meet with BP’s chairman “and inform him that he is to set aside whatever resources are required to compensate the workers and business owners who have been harmed as a result of his company’s recklessness


"Recklessness" has been determined by a court of law? News to me.

The executive branch has the authority to "inform" a company that they are now subject to the whims of said executive branch? News to me.

Danke was right, you really are an apologist for the regime, aren't you?

Dr.3D
06-16-2010, 06:38 PM
You don't think BP is big enough to self insure?

Does that mean Bill Gates doesn't have to have auto insurance when he drives a car?

Vessol
06-16-2010, 06:46 PM
Does that mean Bill Gates doesn't have to have auto insurance when he drives a car?

No one should -have- to have drivers insurance when they drive. If they crash and ruin another persons car, then through a court of law they will have to pay that person through any of their assets that they can.

Of course it's smart to have liability insurance, to protect yourself, but you should be prepared to pay the price if you fuck up.

This whole situation is akin to a trucker driving a load of dangerous chemicles. He wants to drive down the highway where he knows what is there from experience and how to navigate it. However, the government won't allow him to go down that road because he could potentially damage it.
They then say, you have to drive on THAT road. They then point to a winding, dangerous road which has a minimum speed of 160 mph and cliffside drops.

They then tell him, "Don't worry, in compensation, if you crash you don't have to worry about paying that much, we'll cover most of it."

So predictably, the truck carrying the load of dangerous chemicals goes around a curve way too fast and crashes. The chemicals start leaking and end up damaging tons of property and make many people sick.

The government then storms up to the driver whom somehow survived and then starts yelling at him "WHY DID YOU GO DOWN THAT ROAD!? YOU'RE GOING TO PAY FOR THIS!"

specsaregood
06-16-2010, 07:02 PM
Does that mean Bill Gates doesn't have to have auto insurance when he drives a car?

I don't know about all states, but yes it does mean that in most states. Most states have an option to self-insure by putting up a bond or proving sufficient net worth.

Anti Federalist
06-16-2010, 07:06 PM
I don't know about all states, but yes it does mean that in most states. Most states have an option to self-insure by putting up a bond or proving sufficient net worth.

Or, there is no state mandate to purchase auto insurance.

Anti Federalist
06-16-2010, 07:08 PM
No one should -have- to have drivers insurance when they drive. If they crash and ruin another persons car, then through a court of law they will have to pay that person through any of their assets that they can.

Of course it's smart to have liability insurance, to protect yourself, but you should be prepared to pay the price if you fuck up.

This whole situation is akin to a trucker driving a load of dangerous chemicles. He wants to drive down the highway where he knows what is there from experience and how to navigate it. However, the government won't allow him to go down that road because he could potentially damage it.
They then say, you have to drive on THAT road. They then point to a winding, dangerous road which has a minimum speed of 160 mph and cliffside drops.

They then tell him, "Don't worry, in compensation, if you crash you don't have to worry about paying that much, we'll cover most of it."

So predictably, the truck carrying the load of dangerous chemicals goes around a curve way too fast and crashes. The chemicals start leaking and end up damaging tons of property and make many people sick.

The government then storms up to the driver whom somehow survived and then starts yelling at him "WHY DID YOU GO DOWN THAT ROAD!? YOU'RE GOING TO PAY FOR THIS!"

You've just thumbnailed why commercial fishing is one of the most dangerous jobs out there.

Vessol
06-16-2010, 07:12 PM
You've just thumbnailed why commercial fishing is one of the most dangerous jobs out there.

Could you better explain how my analogy matches commercial fishing as well? I think I understand, but I wouldn't mind it being clarified.

Anti Federalist
06-16-2010, 07:23 PM
Could you better explain how my analogy matches commercial fishing as well? I think I understand, but I wouldn't mind it being clarified.

Government assigns quotas on amounts caught and time spent fishing.

Government says if you do not fish on such and such a day or time of month, you lose that slot forever and can lose that quota.

Take one of the most dangerous commercial fishing jobs on the east coast, that I did years ago, offshore clamming.

Government limits you to specific days of the week, if you don't fish that day, you lose that day.

So consequently, vessel masters and owners are forced into the difficult position of deciding whether to wait out bad weather or vessel breakdowns and lose that day, or go, under adverse conditions.

Of course, nine times out of ten, you go.

Many vessels and many men have been lost that way, where if there was any sanity to it, government regulations would allow for "make up days" for repairs or weather delays.

Imagine what air traffic would look like if the airlines operated under such a system.

Some of this applies to the Horizon spill as well. Why was a well being drilled in block that did not have the capability to "produce" from that well?

Because government regulations require that some activity take place or you lose your lease.

Vessol
06-16-2010, 07:50 PM
Ah, yes, the 'unintended consequences'. Many of those for regulation would state matter-of-factily that such regulations, even with the unintended consequences, are worth it for the point of the regulation.

It is that point that I believe that the black market must take hand and regulations disobeyed. Sadly, the heavy hand of the State comes down on this hard.

specsaregood
06-16-2010, 07:51 PM
Or, there is no state mandate to purchase auto insurance.

Which state would that be? NH? Hopefully you don't answer "the state of bliss".

Anti Federalist
06-16-2010, 08:11 PM
Which state would that be? NH? Hopefully you don't answer "the state of bliss".

Yes, NH.

Probably one of, if not the, last state that does not require compulsory auto insurance purchases

Same with the seat belt laws.

Roxi
06-16-2010, 08:13 PM
I have been arguing with some guy on facebook about this for weeks. He thinks I am crazy for not wanting to seize their assets I can not believe they are going to get away with this. EVEN if they aren't going in with guns and taking the money.

I LOVE the ocean, more than anyone I have ever known, just the smell of it eases my entire soul. I also am completely 100% obsessed with turtles (anyone who is my facebook friend could tell you this) I LOVE the gulf, and I think this is a terrible, horrible, no good, very bad situation. It makes me sad inside knowing I can't go there and help do something. I am so pissed that this happened.

BUT. I still support private property rights, and do not advocate forcing a private business to do anything. Am I wrong or did BP not say they would cover all the costs in spite of the cap? And yeah maybe there is complete corruption up top, and they probably deserve to go down. But that should be done through complete boycott and not through US federal force. Don't buy BP products and they will go out of business.

how hard is that concept? The people have the power to stop them, but so many want the feds to do it for us.

specsaregood
06-16-2010, 08:15 PM
Yes, NH.
Probably one of, if not the, last state that does not require compulsory auto insurance purchases

Probably so, so how does that work if you drive out of the state? Do other states honor NH law? ie: you drive to MA for a weekend and you get pulled over. Do the MA police give you a ticket for not having insurance?

Is car insurance cheaper in NH due to a freer market?

Anti Federalist
06-16-2010, 08:23 PM
Probably so, so how does that work if you drive out of the state? Do other states honor NH law? ie: you drive to MA for a weekend and you get pulled over. Do the MA police give you a ticket for not having insurance?

Is car insurance cheaper in NH due to a freer market?

Recall the last time you got pulled over by an out of state cop, they only ask for license and registration, they don't ask for insurance.

It's entirely up to the state and other states have to honor that, just like they have to honor your license, registration and tags.

Yes, insurance is cheaper and guess what, just like seat belts (we have one of the highest usage rates), we have one of the highest rates of insured motorists.

Vessol
06-16-2010, 08:32 PM
People are unaware of their power as individuals, they feel that only the 'supernatural' entity of the State can save them.

Matt Collins
06-16-2010, 08:40 PM
YouTube - Glenn Beck - The Judge Sits In For Glenn (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdFSC-fZbwk&feature=player_embedded)

Jordan
06-16-2010, 08:45 PM
Does that mean Bill Gates doesn't have to have auto insurance when he drives a car?

Who is going to insure them? BP is one of the largest businesses on the face of the earth, so you'd have to sell that to a number of insurance companies in pieces. I doubt even Buffett, who could afford float the insurance, wouldn't take the offer since he'd have to dedicate far too much to keep the contract open. His risk management department would be screaming.

Plus, from BP's perspective, what sense does it make to purchase third-party insurance and incur a premium to the actual risk if you can cover the possible outcomes?

BP just set up a $20.1 billion fund to make good on the spill, or about one year's income. $20 billion of that is to be spread out over four years. That's nothing.