PDA

View Full Version : Mpls Star Tribune: In jail for being in debt




ctiger2
06-09-2010, 03:23 PM
http://www.startribune.com/investigators/95692619.html?elr=KArksUUUycaEacyU


As a sheriff's deputy dumped the contents of Joy Uhlmeyer's purse into a sealed bag, she begged to know why she had just been arrested while driving home to Richfield after an Easter visit with her elderly mother.

No one had an answer. Uhlmeyer spent a sleepless night in a frigid Anoka County holding cell, her hands tucked under her armpits for warmth. Then, handcuffed in a squad car, she was taken to downtown Minneapolis for booking. Finally, after 16 hours in limbo, jail officials fingerprinted Uhlmeyer and explained her offense -- missing a court hearing over an unpaid debt. "They have no right to do this to me," said the 57-year-old patient care advocate, her voice as soft as a whisper. "Not for a stupid credit card."

It's not a crime to owe money, and debtors' prisons were abolished in the United States in the 19th century. But people are routinely being thrown in jail for failing to pay debts. In Minnesota, which has some of the most creditor-friendly laws in the country, the use of arrest warrants against debtors has jumped 60 percent over the past four years, with 845 cases in 2009, a Star Tribune analysis of state court data has found.

Not every warrant results in an arrest, but in Minnesota many debtors spend up to 48 hours in cells with criminals. Consumer attorneys say such arrests are increasing in many states, including Arkansas, Arizona and Washington, driven by a bad economy, high consumer debt and a growing industry that buys bad debts and employs every means available to collect.

Whether a debtor is locked up depends largely on where the person lives, because enforcement is inconsistent from state to state, and even county to county.

In Illinois and southwest Indiana, some judges jail debtors for missing court-ordered debt payments. In extreme cases, people stay in jail until they raise a minimum payment. In January, a judge sentenced a Kenney, Ill., man "to indefinite incarceration" until he came up with $300 toward a lumber yard debt.

John Taylor
06-09-2010, 03:25 PM
http://www.startribune.com/investigators/95692619.html?elr=KArksUUUycaEacyU

I'm all in favor of holding debtors accountable, but it seems to me that this woman was arrested for not showing up to court, not because of a debt...

KCIndy
06-09-2010, 03:35 PM
I'm all in favor of holding debtors accountable, but it seems to me that this woman was arrested for not showing up to court, not because of a debt...

That was my thought. If you don't show up for a court hearing, it's usually standard for a bench warrant to be issued.

The important thing for everyone to remember when it comes to debt is to always address it, even if it means showing up in court just so you can say, "sorry, I'm broke."

I had a friend who almost had the same thing happen to him over some unpaid medical bills. He felt the charges were unwarranted, so he simply didn't pay the bill... :rolleyes:

dannno
06-09-2010, 03:42 PM
I'm all in favor of holding debtors accountable, but it seems to me that this woman was arrested for not showing up to court, not because of a debt...


You are in favor of imprisoning debtors :confused:

ctiger2
06-09-2010, 03:45 PM
I like how they put people in prison for a $250 debt and the cost for the night in the clink is double that. Makes perfect sense to me.

Elle
06-09-2010, 04:01 PM
Well if they are going to jail debtors, DC and Wall Street would be the place to go. Plenty of fish there.

sratiug
06-09-2010, 04:14 PM
Our Mississippi constitution says you can't go to jail for debt. Which means you shouldn't have to pay any fines here. But if you don't, they'll lock you up.:confused:

erowe1
06-09-2010, 04:51 PM
You are in favor of imprisoning debtors :confused:

You mean thieves?

dannno
06-09-2010, 04:56 PM
You mean thieves?

No, I mean debtors.

Giving somebody a loan is a voluntary transaction. For any number of reasons, the debtor might not repay their loan. This could be due to sudden financial hardship or dishonesty. Either way, it is the responsibility of the lender to take into consideration the risks involved in making the loan.

So do you believe in putting debtors in prison?

erowe1
06-09-2010, 05:20 PM
So do you believe in putting debtors in prison?

I'm not a big fan of prison for most crimes. I can see better ways of dealing with thieves, maybe garnishing their wages or making them indentured servants of their victims for something like 4 x the value of what they stole. And I can't see how borrowing something with the promise to return it and then not returning it or providing remuneration should be treated differently.

osan
06-10-2010, 04:18 AM
I'm all in favor of holding debtors accountable, but it seems to me that this woman was arrested for not showing up to court, not because of a debt...

This is simply a back door end run on the debtor's prison deal. First of all, the issue is civil, not criminal. If Party A sues Party B and Party B fails to show up in court, a summary judgment is likely to be entered for Party A and the onus will rest with Party A to collect by whatever means are legally available to them, which should not include arrest and incarceration. Swearing out a warrant in such cases drags those cases (kicking and screaming) into the realm of criminal complaints.

If you feel this is OK, then why not go all the way and start enacting ex post facto law as well and dispense with statutes of limitation? If we're going to go drooling, barking mad - let us go all the way.

As far back as twenty five years ago I used to half seriously predict that one day people would flee the United States to places like Russia to be free. I never really expected it to become reality, yet look around and see what our nation has become. The United States of America has made the descent into shrieking, gnawing madness, and that is no overstatement of the truth.

We are so fucked.

osan
06-10-2010, 04:35 AM
You mean thieves?

Is this an ignorant response or disingenuous?

Assuming the former, I will so very generously provide you with a basic lesson in business of which all clued-in businessmen are aware: doing business at any level entails risk. Any time one enters into a business transaction there is some degree of risk in question. That degree may be great or it may be vanishingly small. For example, when a consumer enters a furniture store in good faith, buys a couch for $2000 on credit for 36 months and a year later loses their job, the subsequent inability to pay is NOT an act of theft. It is the result of circumstance that lay beyond one's control. The credit company took a RISK when loaning the cash to you. Risk means they are gambling and with every roll of the dice one may lose. Nobody puts a gun to the heads of businessmen forcing them to buy and sell. They do so voluntarily and are therefore equally responsible for the outcomes.

osan
06-10-2010, 04:39 AM
Our Mississippi constitution says you can't go to jail for debt. Which means you shouldn't have to pay any fines here. But if you don't, they'll lock you up.:confused:
That is the result of end-running your constitution by claiming you have been arrested for disobeying a court order and not for the debt in question. It is wholesale bullshit.

Austrian Econ Disciple
06-10-2010, 04:53 AM
That is the result of end-running your constitution by claiming you have been arrested for disobeying a court order and not for the debt in question. It is wholesale bullshit.

Dude, but don't you know, thats not possible! It's the freaking Constitution! No one would ever dare disobey the piece of paper! :eek:

bobbyw24
06-10-2010, 04:55 AM
I'm all in favor of holding debtors accountable, but it seems to me that this woman was arrested for not showing up to court, not because of a debt...

Do you believe that Americans should be able to file bankruptcy?

osan
06-10-2010, 05:30 AM
Dude, but don't you know, thats not possible! It's the freaking Constitution! No one would ever dare disobey the piece of paper! :eek:

Huh?! Oh... right... silly me.