California Results

[0zzy]

http://www.politico.com/2010/maps/

Senate: Carly Fiorina, 50.5% w/ 0.5% reporting, Campbell 29.8%
Governor: Meg Whitman, 65.2% w/ 0.1% reporting, Steve Poizner 26.8%


my peeps be losing bad.

edit:

Your new GOP California Governor candidate is officially:

http://countenance.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/whitman.jpg
http://www.megwhitman.com/

63% - 26%

edit:

GOP Senatorial Candidate:

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.switched.com/media/2009/03/switched_carly.jpg
http://carlyforca.com/

[South Park Fan]

Where's the barf emoticon?

[0zzy]

Where's the barf emoticon?


http://archive.patteroast.net/vis/BARF.gif

[libertybrewcity]

well if turnout means anything, the republicans seem to be kicking ass. could be just because it's a good year for republicans.

[South Park Fan]

well if turnout means anything, the republicans seem to be kicking ass. could be just because it's a good year for republicans.

To be fair, the GOP is the only party with seriously contested primaries. Boxer and Brown are all but assured to win on the Democratic side, so that might impede turnout.

[speciallyblend]

no ORLY results?? only race that matters in cali:P

[dannno]

well if turnout means anything, the republicans seem to be kicking ass. could be just because it's a good year for republicans.

Too bad I can't vote for any of them in the General.

[JCF]

Well, Whitman did spend 80+ million, much of it her own money...


I'm not fan of Poizner but this guy DESTROYED Whitman in the last debate I watched... She totally bought the election.

[lx43]

Why anyone would vote for Fiorina is beyond me. Just take a look at what she did to HP and you'll see what she would do for California/the country.

[South Park Fan]

Why anyone would vote for Fiorna is beyond me. Just take a look at what she did to HP and you'll see what she would do for California/the country.

Her candidacy lacks any logical basis. Those concerned with electabilty ought to have gone with Campbell and those concerned with consistancy ought to have gone with DeVore.

[tangent4ronpaul]

Meg Whitman wins

[0zzy]

Your new GOP California Governor candidate is officially:

http://countenance.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/whitman.jpg
http://www.megwhitman.com/

[jmdrake]

How's John Dennis doing?

[JCF]

Whitman... Damn...

[tangent4ronpaul]

Your new GOP California Governor candidate is officially:

http://countenance.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/whitman.jpg
http://www.megwhitman.com/

She's really bad news. While she does know how to run a business - E-Bay, (though drove HP into the ground) for a "republican" (thy RINO) shes completely pro gun control, and very in favor of corporate / federal police state partnerships. Really - the worst traits of the neocons and the worst of the progressives.

YEACH!

-t

[Brian4Liberty]

She's really bad news. While she does know how to run a business - E-Bay, (though drove HP into the ground) for a "republican" (thy RINO) shes completely pro gun control, and very in favor of corporate / federal police state partnerships.

-t

Meg Whitman and Carly Fiorina (fired HP-CEO) are two different people.

Yippee, Meg Whitman, former Goldman Sachs Board member and beneficiary of questionable insider trades...

[BlackTerrel]

Don't really like any of these. Everyone I know who ever worked at eBay said Meg is a huge bitch.

But that's second hand information.

[angelatc]

Whitman screwed up eBay, and bailed out just as the repercussions of her big-brotheresque policies were taking hold.

I hate the fact that she's probably going to win this primary.

[0zzy]

Whitman screwed up eBay, and bailed out just as the repercussions of her big-brotheresque policies were taking hold.

I hate the fact that she's probably going to win this primary.

she did win :>

[tangent4ronpaul]

Just heard that Whitman donated 4K to Boxer as well as an endorsement :eek:

The tea party is not getting behind her.

-t

[angelatc]

Her candidacy lacks any logical basis. Those concerned with electabilty ought to have gone with Campbell and those concerned with consistancy ought to have gone with DeVore.

Unfortunately, I think DeVore and Campbell spoiled each other's chances. Not intentionally, but that's the way it is.

[Alawn]

Looks like 14 is passing. This is the worst possible thing for elections. It makes it so instead of a primary there is a combined primary where everyone in every party is voted on and then only the top 2 vote getters are allowed in the general. So you could end up with 1 republican 1 democrat, 2 republicans, or more likely 2 democrats. There wont be any chance of a third party candidate being in the general.

[tremendoustie]

Poizner wasn't any good either ...

I voted for the guy running against David Drier, and on all the props, and wrote in "nobody" in all the other races.

[0zzy]

Unfortunately, I think DeVore and Campbell spoiled each other's chances. Not intentionally, but that's the way it is.

she got 50%+ more though, soooo, she would of won either way methinks.

buttttt, whatevas.


I wanted to do campaign work for the GOP this summer, but with Whitman and Carly, yukkk. what am I to do? :\

[vonMises]

Well, Whitman did spend 80+ million, much of it her own money...


I'm not fan of Poizner but this guy DESTROYED Whitman in the last debate I watched... She totally bought the election.

Michael Bloomberg seems the only exception when it comes to wealthy candidates winning an electable office. The son of the founder of Amway, Dick DeVos, tried to buy the Michigan governorship and that failed horribly. Log Cabin Michael Huffington (ex-husband to Arianna Huffington), tried to take the seat away from Feinstein back in 1994, and spent the most money of any candidate for a senate seat at that time, but he still lost by less than 2 percent anyway. And there are many other examples where money doesn't equal any electoral success. I'd say Whitman's money will put a bad taste in many voters mouths come the general election, and she won't win it. (and Jerry Brown, for a man that believes in Rawlsian "fairness" which would turn off any libertarian, is actually moderate enough to not be that scared of).

[tremendoustie]

Looks like 14 is passing. This is the worst possible thing for elections. It makes it so instead of a primary there is a combined primary where everyone in every party is voted on and then only the top 2 vote getters are allowed in the general. So you could end up with 1 republican 1 democrat, 2 republicans, or more likely 2 democrats. There wont be any chance of a third party candidate being in the general.

The local advertisements here for it are casting it as some sort of a breakup of the two party system, and end to partisanship.

In case you're curious about the particular lie they used to sucker people on this one.

[angelatc]

she got 50%+ more though, soooo, she would of won either way methinks.

buttttt, whatevas.


I wanted to do campaign work for the GOP this summer, but with Whitman and Carly, yukkk. what am I to do? :\

To be perfectly honest, it would be great experience to work with either one of them. And you'd get to meet some new people.

[tangent4ronpaul]

she got 50%+ more though, soooo, she would of won either way methinks.

buttttt, whatevas.


I wanted to do campaign work for the GOP this summer, but with Whitman and Carly, yukkk. what am I to do? :\

Spend the summer in another state where you support the candidate

-t

[BamaFanNKy]

I'd probably work for Hugo Chavez to get Boxer out of office.

[0zzy]

GOP Senatorial Candidate:

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.switched.com/media/2009/03/switched_carly.jpg
http://carlyforca.com/

[RonPaulFanInGA]

I wanted to do campaign work for the GOP this summer, but with Whitman and Carly, yukkk. what am I to do? :\

If he wins the primary tonight, and you're not scared to work for a candidate with no chance whatsoever to win the general election, you could do campaign work for John Dennis.

[0zzy]

If he wins the primary tonight, and you're not scared to work for a candidate with no chance whatsoever to win the general election, you could do campaign work for John Dennis.


Spend the summer in another state where you support the candidate

-t

I'm going to be stuck in Santa Barbara area cause I'm taking a summer school class :). I'd love to go to Kentucky and help Rand! Or even Dennis! But I can't D:.

[Brian4Liberty]

Looks like 14 is passing. This is the worst possible thing for elections. It makes it so instead of a primary there is a combined primary where everyone in every party is voted on and then only the top 2 vote getters are allowed in the general. So you could end up with 1 republican 1 democrat, 2 republicans, or more likely 2 democrats. There wont be any chance of a third party candidate being in the general.

Lol! Two Republicans in California?

[vonMises]

I'd probably work for Hugo Chavez to get Boxer out of office.

I'm not much of a fan of Fiorina, but I will probably be voting for her in November. She may be a failure at business, but she seems competent enough when discussing issues even if you don't agree with her. In fact most of the GOP candidates (and at the other end, Governor Boombeam) are actually intelligent people. I wouldn't necessarily "trust" Fiorina, but I know she could analyze and think things through much better than Boxer. And I'd rather vote for intelligence, and not character or ideological consistency, as those options seem to be out now.

[0zzy]

Lol! Two Republicans in California?

hardyharharharharharharhar.


question: Do you think the parties will now make their "own" primary by having a convention?

[BamaFanNKy]

I'm not much of a fan of Fiorina, but I will probably be voting for her in November. She may be a failure at business, but she seems competent enough when discussing issues even if you don't agree with her. In fact most of the GOP candidates (and at the other end, Governor Boombeam) are actually intelligent people. I wouldn't necessarily "trust" Fiorina, but I know she could analyze and think things through much better than Boxer. And I'd rather vote for intelligence, and not character or ideological consistency, as those options seem to be out now.

Boxer is 'El Diablo.'

[silentshout]

Lol, sorry I'd vote for Boxer over Fiorina..but I won't. I don't like either of them at all. I'll be voting 3rd party for this as well as for the governor. Then again, I guess I can't since prop14 passed....:( I just can't vote for these people.

[BamaFanNKy]

Oh and for Jerry Brown. Dead Kennedy's said it better.
YouTube - California Uber Alles (Dead Kennedys) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=quLqEu4mUOU)

[Brian4Liberty]

I'm not much of a fan of Fiorina, but I will probably be voting for her in November.

Sell-out.

Sorry, the establishment doesn't deserve a single vote, whether it is Carly or Barbara.

[vonMises]

Boxer is 'El Diablo.'

Fiorina actually made a video depicting Campbell as a demon sheep (very weird video), so I could only wonder what she thinks of Boxer being.

[Brian4Liberty]

Boxer is 'El Diablo.'

Carly is the same.

[BamaFanNKy]

Lol, sorry I'd vote for Boxer over Fiorina..but I won't. I don't like either of them at all. I'll be voting 3rd party for this as well as for the governor. Then again, I guess I can't since propr 14 passed. Not that it will do any good, but I just can't vote for these people.

A death nail to Boxer is needed. Again, I'd vote for Sid Haig over Boxer:
http://www.robzombiemovies.com/sid-haig/sidhaig.jpg

[BamaFanNKy]

Carly is the same.

Um..... this is just a side issue.... but I CAN'T STAND BOXER!
YouTube - Barbara Boxer "Call Me Senator!" must Apologize! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nVtQ7M0V15M&feature=related)

[silentshout]

Well, I see it differently. I really don't like Fiorina. I had a friend at HP back in the day when she was oh-so-proud about shipping jobs overseas. Sure, the company should be allowed to do it, but I've never bought an HP product, and I really don't like companies that do that. Her attitude about it was repugnant.
I'm no fan of Boxer either. But since I was a Democrat before, I didn't realize she was so hated :) i just didn't care for her.

[Brian4Liberty]

A death nail to Boxer is needed.

Sorry, Carly ain't flying...

[Brian4Liberty]

Um..... this is just a side issue.... but I CAN'T STAND BOXER!

No one can stand Boxer. And no one with any sense should be able to stand Fiorina.

[vonMises]

Sell-out.

Sorry, the establishment doesn't deserve a single vote, whether it is Carly or Barbara.

Well I just don't want Boxer as one of our senators anymore. While Fiorina is a two-faced bitch, Boxer is worst. Sadly, compromise needs to happen to make incremental improvements.

[BamaFanNKy]

Ah.... So more Babs Boxer.

Guess no one cares about these ratings:
American Land Rights Association – 11% for 2006
Americans for Tax Reform – 5% for 2006
AFL-CIO – 100% in 2006
Campaign for America's Future – 100% for 2005–2006
Conservative Index-John Birch Society – 20% for Fall 2004
Family Research Council – 0% for 2006
FreedomWorks – 17% for 2006
Gun Owners of America – 0% for 2006
National Education Association – 100% for 2005–2006
National Federation of Independent Business – 0% for 2005–2006
National Journal – Composite liberal score of 95% for 2006
National Rifle Association – F for 2006
National Right to Life Committee – 0% for 2005–2006
National Taxpayers Union – 11% for 2006
Republican Liberty Caucus – 10% for 2005

[Brian4Liberty]

Sadly, compromise needs to happen to make incremental improvements.

Lol. Carly never had a chance in the General. It's over. Tom Campbell was the compromise, Chuck DeVore was the conservative. Carly is the establishment shill; a back-up in case Boxer has a stroke before November.

[JCF]

Prop 14 passed.

[vonMises]

Prop 14 passed.

That's the worst news for today actually.

[07041826]

Prop 14 passed.

http://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/elections/all/Proposition_14_Primary_Elections_-95654244.html


PROPOSITION 14 PRIMARY ELECTION PARTICIPATION

Precincts Reporting: 18%
Updated 36 minutes ago

Yes 60%1,124,376
No 40%750,590

Only 18% reporting so far

[Badger Paul]

A dark day in California sadly

[BetaMale]

wawa. The primaries for CA show just how far we have yet to fall in order to begin to make things better. Meg has already said that she won't attack pensions, so even if she gets in, we'll see CA in the red. Then the rest of the country will bail us out.

Only when the dollar is devalued and unemployment is nearing 20-25 percent will our back-asswards state start to get things in order.

So, the moral of the story is, thanks for the coming bailout, 49 states. Our unions will be pleased.

[vonMises]

wawa. The primaries for CA show just how far we have yet to fall in order to begin to make things better. Meg has already said that she won't attack pensions, so even if she gets in, we'll see CA in the red. Then the rest of the country will bail us out.

Only when the dollar is devalued and unemployment is nearing 20-25 percent will our back-asswards state start to get things in order.

So, the moral of the story is, thanks for the coming bailout, 49 states. Our unions will be pleased.

While California does depend on outside sources of money (even water), we in turn hopefully can produce enough goods, entertainment, etc, to justify such aid. I mean we stole water and electricity from other states for almost a century, but it was predicated on the idea that we could sustain a rather profitable agricultural and industrial base in return...of which is reliant on cheap labor...

[tremendoustie]

Sell-out.

Sorry, the establishment doesn't deserve a single vote, whether it is Carly or Barbara.

I agree

[JCF]

http://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/elections/all/Proposition_14_Primary_Elections_-95654244.html


PROPOSITION 14 PRIMARY ELECTION PARTICIPATION

Precincts Reporting: 18%
Updated 36 minutes ago

Yes 60%1,124,376
No 40%750,590

Only 18% reporting so far

Sorry for the late response.



I heard it called on the radio, and by now I think it is... On the radio (at least on conservative radio) I never heard one anti-14 ad, all of them were pro.

---


What can you do guys? It's California and in some areas you aren't getting anything unless you have the $$$$

[vonMises]

Whitman... Damn...

If it's any reassurance, Meg Whitman is what I call "Anglo-American" while her husband Griffith Rutherford Harsh V, is a "White Anglo-Saxon Protestant". Both groups share a whiter than white ancestral background, where values like individualism, industriousness, financial responsibility, etc, tend to be promoted than with more spendthrift ethnics or people with a Catholic background (in fact it could be argued that such groups are the very reason America is the success that it is today). (However WASPs are willing to support socialistic causes out of necessity, like public schooling and water projects whenever practical needs arise). As almost religiously bigoted as this statement is, it's almost a welcome relief in Californian politics to have a non-Catholic governor who could possibly also bring in non-Catholic advisers, staff and cabinet members. California has been without a Protestant governor (and a Mainline Protestant at that) for 16 years, and Protestants running things in general (like the prisons, public schools, etc), for even longer.

If it's any indication, WASPs or the lessor sort near them, of whatever political party, affiliation or ideological belief, seem to be able to manage money with their hands tied. At the top of my head, Howard Dean comes as the quintessential example even though he was a Democratic Governor.

I suppose one can ignore whatever ideological issues one can have with Whitman, and simply support her because of the genes running through her veins, as it is those genes that created and sustained this country up until 1990.

Now I'm not necessarily voting for Whitman because she's a Presbyterian Anglo-American (in fact I may write in a candidate for governor instead), but surely it's something to consider for other people.

[0zzy]

If it's any reassurance, Meg Whitman is what I call "Anglo-American" while her husband Griffith Rutherford Harsh V, is a "White Anglo-Saxon Protestant". Both groups share a whiter than white ancestral background, where values like individualism, industriousness, financial responsibility, etc, tend to be promoted than with more spendthrift ethnics or people with a Catholic background (in fact it could be argued that such groups are the very reason America is the success that it is today). (However WASPs are willing to support socialistic causes out of necessity, like public schooling and water projects whenever practical needs arise). As almost religiously bigoted as this statement is, it's almost a welcome relief in Californian politics to have a non-Catholic governor who could possibly also bring in non-Catholic advisers, staff and cabinet members. California has been without a Protestant governor (and a Mainline Protestant at that) for 16 years, and Protestants running things in general (like the prisons, public schools, etc), for even longer.

If it's any indication, WASPs or the lessor sort near them, of whatever political party, affiliation or ideological belief, seem to be able to manage money with their hands tied. At the top of my head, Howard Dean comes as the quintessential example even though he was a Democratic Governor.

I suppose one can ignore whatever ideological issues one can have with Whitman, and simply support her because of the genes running through her veins, as it is those genes that created and sustained this country up until 1990.

Now I'm not necessarily voting for Whitman because she's a Presbyterian Anglo-American (in fact I may write in a candidate for governor instead), but surely it's something to consider for other people.

Race and religion are things to consider? WhAAAaAAt.

As an Caucasian-Asian, I'm offended!
Not really, but I just wanted everyone to know that I was a Caucasian-Asian cause it sounds funny :).

[07041826]

If it's any reassurance, Meg Whitman is what I call "Anglo-American" while her husband Griffith Rutherford Harsh V, is a "White Anglo-Saxon Protestant". Both groups share a whiter than white ancestral background, where values like individualism, industriousness, financial responsibility, etc, tend to be promoted than with more spendthrift ethnics or people with a Catholic background (in fact it could be argued that such groups are the very reason America is the success that it is today). (However WASPs are willing to support socialistic causes out of necessity, like public schooling and water projects whenever practical needs arise). As almost religiously bigoted as this statement is, it's almost a welcome relief in Californian politics to have a non-Catholic governor who could possibly also bring in non-Catholic advisers, staff and cabinet members. California has been without a Protestant governor (and a Mainline Protestant at that) for 16 years, and Protestants running things in general (like the prisons, public schools, etc), for even longer.

If it's any indication, WASPs or the lessor sort near them, of whatever political party, affiliation or ideological belief, seem to be able to manage money with their hands tied. At the top of my head, Howard Dean comes as the quintessential example even though he was a Democratic Governor.

I suppose one can ignore whatever ideological issues one can have with Whitman, and simply support her because of the genes running through her veins, as it is those genes that created and sustained this country up until 1990.

Now I'm not necessarily voting for Whitman because she's a Presbyterian Anglo-American (in fact I may write in a candidate for governor instead), but surely it's something to consider for other people.

Uh.....so I should vote for her based on her race and religion? Isn't that sort of collectivist reasoning the opposite of what we are striving for?

[libertybrewcity]

yea, i don't think her race or religion matters. it is the fact that she is a neocon who probably won't do much good in california if she does get elected.

[JCF]

She's nuts... Like someone else said she's the worst of both sides. (gay marriage, pot legalization, gun control, public funds for abortion etc...)


I'm just going to vote for Chelene Nightingale. I don't see how Jerry Brown could be any better.

http://www.nightingaleforgovernor.com/

[libertybrewcity]

http://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/elections/all/Proposition_14_Primary_Elections_-95654244.html


PROPOSITION 14 PRIMARY ELECTION PARTICIPATION

Precincts Reporting: 18%
Updated 36 minutes ago

Yes 60%1,124,376
No 40%750,590

Only 18% reporting so far

what is wrong with prop 14 passing? on the ballot i only wanted to vote for two republicans and the rest libertarians but i couldn't because i only had the republican ballot.

[vonMises]

Uh.....so I should vote for her based on her race and religion? Isn't that sort of collectivist reasoning the opposite of what we are striving for?

The very culture and values you embrace were first their own. This country would be substantially different if it wasn't founded by British Isle immigrants (most especially the English or Anglo-Saxon (of whom since time immemorial have always been individualistic, and remained so if they continued only to marry among themselves). Common-law and our traditional form of capitalism are their creations. It wasn't limited government per-se that made America great, rather it was Anglo-Americans, who then created institutions and forms of government that allowed America to prosper. What we call capitalism in America (unregulated markets), has actually been called "le systeme Anglo-Saxon" by the French, and even as recently as 2009, President Lula of Brazil associated "blue eyed" people (which Anglo-Saxon people tend to be) as causing the financial crisis since there were no controls over markets.

As awful it is to say this, socialism is essentially a consequence of having white ethnic and non-white ethnic populations since their ancestors, up until now, never really experienced freedom or self-sufficiency. I mean if this country was to have been mostly founded by people (well to use such racial epithets like) named Hans, Fritz, Yung Tung, and Patrick (as oppose to individuals named John Smith), it would have probably started as rather autocratic (and collectivist).

[Depressed Liberator]

Uhh... I should vote for her because she's white?

mymindisfuck.jpg

[someperson]

Yet another individual who has fallen into the trap of group affiliation and emotional attachment to labels. I can't help but feel disappointed when I see an individual inadvertently (I hope) promoting the destructive philosophy of collectivism.

http://nowsourcing.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/bush_doing_it_wrong.jpg
Added for levity (no offense intended)

[vonMises]

Uhh... I should vote for her because she's white?

mymindisfuck.jpg

Not necessarily. Either because she's Anglo-American or rather married to a WASP. (What I mean by Anglo-American and WASPs are rather complicated to explain now). And hopefully it would be that WASP husband of her's that would be helping her run things.

A WASP looks like the people in the photo at 0:23.
<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/MQ3gpMUFPpU&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/MQ3gpMUFPpU&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

George W. Bush can be considered a WASP, but in WASP circles he seemed to have failed only because he relied upon non-WASPs on his policies (especially opportunistic Jews). They tend to be an anti-semitic bunch, as Jews have basically challenged their place in American politics and the economy (and in many cases replaced them). (Not to mention other individuals of non-WASP/Anglo-American background).

Though a nepotistic tribe, they have means of punishing members for failure. For the most part I trust them with running things even when they are Democrats or Republicans who at times what to raise taxes. (Some WASPs are also globalist, in so much that they want to revive the British Empire. Some are also eugenicists to this day).

As John Sweeny says from a WSJ article talking about Kagan's nomination to the Supreme Court and how that would basically put 3 Jews and 6 Catholics as justices and no more Protestants at http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704414504575244622954114574.html#a rticleTabs_comments%3D%26articleTabs%3Dcomments :

"...the thing that is truly dying is the Protestant ethos of public service. The incoming cultures are much more insular and exploitative of the politico/economic system, particularly regarding taxation and political corruption. Over time, working for public betterment has become working for the money behind you....

The Old Protestant Establishment took its good fortune seriously, undertaking projects that benefited all of society. Today, you'd be hard pressed to think of a nouveau riche, non-Protestant character who is out to do more than game the system as hard as possible. In contrast, Bill Gates, guided by his Protestant father and deceased mother, is in the old tradition, one we will miss sorely as the nation succumbs to common greed."

[RideTheDirt]

http://nolongerquivering.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/anim_smileyBARF.gif

[vonMises]

Yet another individual who has fallen into the trap of group affiliation and emotional attachment to labels. I can't help but feel disappointed when I see an individual inadvertently (I hope) promoting the destructive philosophy of collectivism.

http://nowsourcing.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/bush_doing_it_wrong.jpg
Added for levity (no offense intended)

As of a few years ago, I used to believe in the liberal notion that everyone is created equal (which is shared among classical liberals and current welfare liberals, in fact I think this is the reason why modern liberals call themselves liberals). (I was a big Mises fan too then). But in my experience people are predictable enough that you can certainly stereotype them (as others here have been stereotyping Mexicans as socialistic).

People here seem to come from different ethnic and religious backgrounds but are nonetheless individualistic, so a notion that anyone of any background could potentially be an individual is shared among the people here. And I certainly see everyone here as an individual who is capable of rational thought. But to see everyone else beyond libertarian forums like this one or other groups, as capable of individualism and whatever else, is something I am reluctant to do anymore. Up until learning about demographics, ethnography and religion, I treated everyone as the same and tried to convince them of a libertarian perspective to certain things, and it always failed unless the person was smart (of which they could be convinced over time of something, and they could have been of any ethnic background) or had a significant Anglo-Saxon, Scottish or Scot-Irish ethnic background (as it seems liberty was a natural inclination for these people, with or without a proper education in it).