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Slutter McGee
06-08-2010, 03:57 PM
The liberty movement often argues that we live in a culture of victimhood. And they are right. That is why it so unfortunate that the Ron Paul movement is one of the chief offenders when it comes to promoting this culture.

Criticism of our views is evil. This idea, so prevalent among our supporters is somewhat responsible for our problem. When one can correlate an idea to an evil conspiracy it demonizes those who support it, taking away the need for rational discussion with those who are tools, puppets, sheep, and ignorant. We are the victims of this conspiracy and as such we feel no need to embrace or talk to those whom with we disagree. Because placing labels is far easier than accepting criticism.

When the media ignored Ron Paul, we were again the victims. Forget the fact that Ron Paul had only 1% in the polls. Because the 1% poll results were lies perpetrated by the pollsters, in collusion with the mainstream media. Again we were the victims.

When Beck went after Medina we cried foul. When Hannity insulted Ron, we cried foul. We are always crying foul, because we are always the victims.
I am not contending that we should not fight injustice. I am not arguing that we are not all victims of a corrupt government. I am not saying that the Media, the Party, and the Neo-cons are correct. I am not saying that we should lie down and take it.

What I am saying is that we ought to grow up. And stop crying victim every time somebody disagrees. We ought to spread our message instead of believing we are the special entitled few. And that we should be cordial to those we disagree with, because we never know what the future holds.

Our movement may be victimized at times, but we should stop acting like victims. Personal responsibility is a part of what liberty represents. Why don’t we start believing in it and stop blaming our movement’s problems on everyone else.

Sincerely,

Slutter McGee

Slutter McGee
06-10-2010, 04:50 PM
Forum rules give me two personal bumps. I am only going to use one. I don't need anybody to respond, but I think what I said should be read by a few more people. After all, this one star thread is reflective of how many people view our movement. A bunch of cry-babies with no damn backbone. And if you don't like what I have to say...I don't care.

Sincerely,

Slutter McGee

Teaser Rate
06-10-2010, 05:04 PM
Great post, in my short time here, I've been struck by how arrogant and paranoid some people are.

The government is not evil, it is a reflection of the will of the people; the media is not evil, it reports on what people are interested in.

Get enough people interested in liberty and the government and media will work in our favor.

MsDoodahs
06-10-2010, 05:10 PM
Outstanding post.

Thanks.

heavenlyboy34
06-10-2010, 05:10 PM
Great post, in my short time here, I've been struck by how arrogant and paranoid some people are.

The government is not evil, it is a reflection of the will of the people; the media is not evil, it reports on what people are interested in.

Get enough people interested in liberty and the government and media will work in our favor.

The government is a reflection of the will of the people? :rolleyes: Maybe the people who buy favor with the plutocrats, but not "The People".

As an old saying goes, "democracy is the delusion that my wife and I together have more influence than John Rockefeller."

dannno
06-10-2010, 05:39 PM
I completely disagree with all of this, HB has the right idea... the only positive thing I can take away is the part about not labeling people as lost causes.

dannno
06-10-2010, 05:41 PM
It's like you weren't even around when Ron Paul was outraising all of his opponents and the media was completely silent. Who cares what the polls say when a campaign is building momentum like that?

What we are saying is that any other campaign, based on statism, would have gotten the attention of the media if they were outraising their opponents.. polls be damned.. but because this campaign was based on freedom, it was ignored. It's really that simple, that is how it works.

Where were you when all of this was happening? Ignoring reality?

heavenlyboy34
06-10-2010, 05:42 PM
I completely disagree with all of this, HB has the right idea... the only positive thing I can take away is the part about not labeling people as lost causes.

Thanx, danno. Nice to see ya, btw. :cool:

Teaser Rate
06-10-2010, 05:58 PM
The government is a reflection of the will of the people? :rolleyes: Maybe the people who buy favor with the plutocrats, but not "The People".

As an old saying goes, "democracy is the delusion that my wife and I together have more influence than John Rockefeller."

Believe it or, voters have all the power. The reason why politicians are corrupt is because it’s more politically expedient to take special interest contributions and vote against your constituents’ best interests than it is to do the right thing and run against someone with their money.

Every single vote that a congressman/senator casted in his entire career is documented and open to the public, in the age of youtube and cellphone cameras almost anything someone said or wrote publicly is one click away. The fact that most people are not willing to put in the time and effort to research who they vote for and are instead swayed by 30 sec ads does not mean they do no posses the power to have a government that represents them.

It just means they choose not to use it.

Sentient Void
06-10-2010, 06:02 PM
I completely agree with the OP. Sure, we have been marginalized by the establishment - the OP and no one contends this. But it is not productive to cry about it - simply keep pushing our message out there.

Also, being combative about our views is not going to help convert anyone. Our reasoning is logical, consistent and true to liberty and prosperity of *everyone* - we can win most people over who are open to actual discussion through sheer logic, reasoning and empathy - we shouldn't need to reduce ourselves to such tactics (logical fallacies), which are usually used by the 'liberals' and 'conservatives'. As for others who are absolutely 100% stuck in their world view and won't listen to anything - don't bother with them. Use the socratic method, use historical examples, and put it in a way they'd understand. Carry each argument to it's logical conclusion and discuss it. I have won MANY people over to the philosophy of liberty by using these tactics and avoiding the negative ones.

I also recommend, 'How to Win Friends and Influence People' by Dale Carnegie.

As we can see, our message is growing, significantly. A few years back 0 who would have thought we'd have shows like 'Stossel' and 'FreedomWatch' entering the mainstream? Who would think that 'The Road to Serfdom' would be #1 on ALL of Amazon.Com? That Rand Paul would win his primary, and other liberty candidates looking to win as well?

We're on the right path - we just need to improve our tactics more and stop playing the victim.

good stuff, SM.

dannno
06-10-2010, 06:11 PM
Well the problem is the OP acts like we aren't a victim of the establishment, Ron Paul was low in the polls, end of story. Then at the end of the post admits that yes, we may be the victim of the establishment sometimes. But it's not a conspiracy :rolleyes:

Austrian Econ Disciple
06-10-2010, 06:21 PM
Believe it or, voters have all the power. The reason why politicians are corrupt is because it’s more politically expedient to take special interest contributions and vote against your constituents’ best interests than it is to do the right thing and run against someone with their money.

Every single vote that a congressman/senator casted in his entire career is documented and open to the public, in the age of youtube and cellphone cameras almost anything someone said or wrote publicly is one click away. The fact that most people are not willing to put in the time and effort to research who they vote for and are instead swayed by 30 sec ads does not mean they do no posses the power to have a government that represents them.

It just means they choose not to use it.

Please read, Democracy: The God that Failed. It's quite short, but will shatter the myths, and lies of 'voting', and Democratic principles.

Believe it or not, voters have no power. If voting actually worked, why has the State increased every year since 1860?

Teaser Rate
06-10-2010, 07:30 PM
Please read, Democracy: The God that Failed. It's quite short, but will shatter the myths, and lies of 'voting', and Democratic principles.

Not that I won't look into reading the book you recommended, I think it would be more convincing to first refute someone's argument and then reference a book rather than substitute that reference for a counter-argument.


Believe it or not, voters have no power. If voting actually worked, why has the State increased every year since 1860?

That would a valid argument if the majority of voters were libertarians.