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FrankRep
06-02-2010, 03:10 PM
There is a sizable bloc of Tea Party supporters calling for repeal of the 17th Amendment to the United States Constitution. The 17th Amendment establishes direct, popular election of U.S. Senators, superseding Article 1, Section 3, Clauses 1 and 2 which empowered state legislatures to elect senators. by Joe Wolverton II


Tea Party Wants to Dump 17th Amendment? (http://www.thenewamerican.com/index.php/usnews/constitution/3689-tea-party-wants-to-dump-17th-amendment)


Joe Wolverton, II | The New American (http://www.thenewamerican.com/)
Wednesday, 02 June 2010


There is a sizable bloc of Tea Party supporters calling for repeal of the 17th Amendment to the United States Constitution. The 17th Amendment establishes direct, popular election of U.S. Senators, superseding Article 1, Section 3, Clauses 1 and 2 which empowered state legislatures to elect senators.

The relevant parts of Article 1, Section 3 of the Constitution reads: "The Senate of the United States shall be composed of two Senators from each State, chosen by the legislature thereof...."

The 17th Amendment altered the language to read: "The Senate of the United States shall be composed of two Senators from each State, elected by the people thereof...." By substituting the words "elected" and "people" for "chosen" and "legislature," the 17th Amendment significantly shifted the delicate balance of power between state and national government. The drafters of the Constitution as composed in 1787, considered this balance fundamental to the perpetuation of our new republic.

James Madison, the Father of the Constitution, wrote often in The Federalist of the sacred sovereignty of the states. In Federalist No. 39, he wrote, "Each state, in ratifying the constitution, is considered as a sovereign body, independent of all others, and only to be bound by its own voluntary act."

In the 62nd of those now famous letters advocating ratification of the proposed national constitution, Madison addresses the nature of the national senate and recommends the election of its members by the state legislatures as a way of giving "the state governments such an agency in the formation of the federal government, as must secure the authority of the former...." This arrangement, he continues, will work as "check on legislation" as passage of any bill would require the assent of the majority of the people (as manifest by the House of Representatives) and the majority of the states (as manifest by the Senate).

Under the original scheme, a senator was elected by the state legislature and as such he was to represent that state in the national congress. The people, as such, would only be indirectly represented by the senators, as their interests would be more closely guarded by the members of the House of Representatives.

There was widespread concern among the delegates in Philadelphia that the popular election of senators might encourage demagoguery and vulgar electioneering, thus rendering a senator beholden to special interests and more anxious for their welfare than for the welfare of the sovereign state whose emissary he was meant to be.

Curiously, the susceptibility to the folly of influence and pandering was precisely the purported impetus for the passage of the 17th Amendment. Often, so the argument went, partisanship and sectional strife prevented the legislatures of states from electing a senator and therefore the state would go unrepresented in Washington.

Inspection of the records reveal that while there were occasional vacancies in the Senate that lasted anywhere from a few days to a few months, most of these delays occurred while Congress was not in session so the effect was impotent.

Progressives of the day were intent on "giving power to the people" and pushed an amendment for the popular election of senators through the Congress and on April 8, 1913, Connecticut became the 38th state to ratify the proposal and thus the 17th Amendment became part of the Constitution, significantly altering the structure of our federal government.

As it stands today, the "check on legislation" placed in the Constitution by our Founding Fathers is removed. Also, the states, as sovereign entities, are no longer represented in the federal government, as all members of Congress are elected by the people and thus are answerable to the them (if at all).

For proponents of the repeal of the 17th Amendment, the question is not simply "In America, who is sovereign?" but "In America, who else is sovereign?" The people, it is not denied by those who prefer the original set up, are certainly sovereign in America, but so are the several states whose ratification in 1787 created the federal government that now passes — in a manner most unrestrained — one after another mandate that must be obeyed. If the sovereignty of the states is sacrificed in the name of populism, is there any doubt which sovereign body will be the next to go?

Nationwide, there are candidates and activists (many within the Tea Party movement) that are working to repeal the 17th Amendment. In Idaho, for example, two candidates in the Republican primary for the First Congressional District race advocated repeal, including the winner, Raul Labrador. In the campaign to represent Ohio's 15th Congressional District, Republican candidate Steve Stivers supports repealing the 16th and 17th Amendments. In Utah, Republican Senator Robert Bennett was unseated by Tim Bridgewater whose website proclaims, "We traded senators who represent rights of states for senators who represent the rights of special interest groups."

So sound is the reasoning behind the call the repeal the 17th Amendment, even the New York Times in an editorial had to acknowledge the unimpeachable constitutionality of the proposition, "It may be true that appointed senators, accountable only to state legislators, would never approve of many useful federal mandates designed to put the national interests above local parochialism — including everything from the minimum wage to the new health reform law."

While admittedly a back-handed compliment and hardly an endorsement of the return to the Article 1, Section 3 method of senatorial selection, the author reluctantly recognizes the difficulty passage of federal laws of the type mentioned above would have if the senate were to regain its former status and be empowered anew to exercise its right as the representatives of the states.

For now, the most potent recourse for those in favor of the repeal of the 17th Amendment is the ballot box and the election of state and federal legislators committed to the restoration of the foundational principle of federalism upon which our republic was founded.


SOURCE:
http://www.thenewamerican.com/index.php/usnews/constitution/3689-tea-party-wants-to-dump-17th-amendment

FrankRep
06-02-2010, 03:12 PM
Representative Louie Golmert of Texas has recently proposed that United States senators be elected as they once were, by the legislatures of the states. This would require a repeal of the 17th Amendment, which requires direct election of senators by the people. by Bruce Walker


Should We Repeal the 17th Amendment? (http://www.thenewamerican.com/index.php/usnews/politics/3229-should-we-repeal-the-17th-amendment)


Bruce Walker | The New American (http://www.thenewamerican.com/)
31 March 2010


Representative Louie Golmert of Texas has recently proposed that United States senators be elected as they once were, by the legislatures of the states. This would require a repeal of the 17th Amendment, which requires direct election of senators by the people.

When the Constitution was adopted, state governments were given great power and, in particular, state legislatures were given vast power. This was intended to make the language of the Constitution, which preserves the states as sovereign entities, protect that sovereignty in practice. When the two senators from each state were chosen by state legislatures, then those senators would not last long if they advocated a surrender of state power to the federal government.

The president also was not chosen by the people, but by presidential electors who were chosen themselves not by the people but by the state legislatures. This effectively gave state legislatures control over the presidency and the Senate. Because the president nominates and the Senate confirms federal judges, the nomination and confirmation of members of thee Supreme Court and all inferior federal courts also were subject to veto by the states.

The intention of the Founding Fathers was that these United States be a federation of equal members. Each state might have very different policies and laws on different issues, but people could choose which state they wished to live in, and so robust state governments naturally led to general freedom for all Americans.

The Constitution and Bill of Rights, which enshrined the sovereignty of the states, could not be amended without the concurrence of three quarters of the states. Again, the Founding Fathers saw how to prevent the federal government from whittling away at states’ rights.

The crumbling of states’ rights became when federal judges began to arrogate to themselves the power to amend the Constitution by simply reading it as they chose. Five justices became equal to 76 state legislative chambers. State legislators also gave up their power to choose presidential electors by providing that these individuals be elected by the people (in the early American presidential elections, there was no “popular vote” at all — not even for presidential electors.)

The greatest loss, though, came when the states voluntarily agreed to amend the Constitution so that the people, not the state legislators, would now choose the members of the Senate. After that, there were virtually no real checks that state governments had to preserve their balanced rights in our federal system. Would amending the Constitution to repeal the 17th Amendment restore that balance? Yes, if state legislatures also became to assume responsibility again for electing the president (by choosing the electors, rather than leaving that to the people) and if state legislatures had the backbone to begin to reassert their rights.

The strong reaction to the massive healthcare bill by states’ attorneys general is a good sign that perhaps states are ready to step back into their intended role in our federal system. Having robust states is not a partisan issue. It is not even an issue on what policies a particular state should adopt (if Massachusetts wishes to tax itself into penury, it is that state’s right — as long as the rest of us do not need to bail the Bay State out.)


SOURCE:
http://www.thenewamerican.com/index.php/usnews/politics/3229-should-we-repeal-the-17th-amendment

libertybrewcity
06-02-2010, 03:13 PM
they are probably talking about the ron paul wing of the tea party.

TheDriver
06-02-2010, 03:14 PM
they are probably talking about the ron paul wing of the tea party.

And not everyone in that wing supports it repeal. ;)

libertythor
06-02-2010, 03:14 PM
I am all for this! The Senate was originally created to give the states themselves representation in Congress.

libertythor
06-02-2010, 03:29 PM
I am all for repealing the 17th amendment because the original intent of our founders was to have a senate that represented the states.

NewFederalist
06-02-2010, 04:27 PM
It won't happen because the MSM won't allow it but it is a good idea.

KCIndy
06-02-2010, 06:25 PM
It won't happen because the MSM won't allow it but it is a good idea.


Yep...

MSM's take: "Radical political activists want to deny citizens' right to vote!"

Koz
06-02-2010, 07:23 PM
It is an excellent idea.

1836er
06-02-2010, 08:00 PM
Yes!

tpreitzel
06-02-2010, 08:02 PM
I've been harping on its repeal for so long I can't even remember when I started ... before Devvy Kid, I think .. :) Thankfully, the harping might finally translate into some action ... I'll field this question to the Republican establishment here locally.... ha ha I know at least a couple of locals who'll support it!

Razmear
06-02-2010, 10:18 PM
I've long wished for the repeal of the 12th amendment, so we can go back the original method.



The Electors shall meet in their respective States, and vote by Ballot for two persons, of whom one at least shall not lie an Inhabitant of the same State with themselves. And they shall make a List of all the Persons voted for, and of the Number of Votes for each; which List they shall sign and certify, and transmit sealed to the Seat of the Government of the United States, directed to the President of the Senate. The President of the Senate shall, in the Presence of the Senate and House of Representatives, open all the Certificates, and the Votes shall then be counted. The Person having the greatest Number of Votes shall be the President, .....(tie breaker stuff omitted)....

In every Case, after the Choice of the President, the Person having the greatest Number of Votes of the Electors shall be the Vice President.


No political parties needed and a balance of power returns to the Executive Branch.
Of course it's just about as likely as a repeal of the 17th, but if your going for one, might as well shoot for both of them at the same time.

eb

link:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twelfth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitutio n

Warrior_of_Freedom
06-02-2010, 10:20 PM
what is the tea party?