ok, so BP can't STOP the oil flow but...

[SooperDave]

why don't they have ships collect the oil at the source - even if there is some spillage - rather than allow the oil to flow into the sea for months? am I a simpleton or isn't this a viable temporary solution until they find a way to plug it?

[CUnknown]

Well the source is a mile or more underwater. ;)

If they had specially designed submarines, maybe. :D

Once it reaches the surface, it is too spread out to collect. But yeah, I sort of agree that maybe some kind of siphoning / capture system could be tried... I mean, they've tried everything else and it hasn't worked, so..

[Working Poor]

I think the reason is that they truly have no respect for life. They are just trying to figure out who is gonna make the most money nothing new next...

[Kludge]

They should evaporate the ocean with Lazers so they can get to the leak without an alleged fleet of diamond-saw-toting robots.


... Operation.... um... "Lift Up."


Maybe, like... ULTRA-Lift-Up, so the hope from having a hardcore project name encourages them to work harder.


... Maybe I should stick to philosophy & sarcasm.

[TheFlashlight.org]

why don't they have ships collect the oil at the source - even if there is some spillage - rather than allow the oil to flow into the sea for months? am I a simpleton or isn't this a viable temporary solution until they find a way to plug it?

They tried this and failed. Wasn't this the long pipe + dome? I think they're trying it again. Idiots. It took them like a week and a half to realize they could melt ice crystals and keep them from forming by circulating hot water around the dome. Apparently, instead of acting acting acting revising revising revising and winning, they fail and then go back to the drawing board and sulk for a week.

[MelissaWV]

They tried this and failed. Wasn't this the long pipe + dome? I think they're trying it again. Idiots. It took them like a week and a half to realize they could melt ice crystals and keep them from forming by circulating hot water around the dome. Apparently, instead of acting acting acting revising revising revising and winning, they fail and then go back to the drawing board and sulk for a week.

They are not just going to cap it this time. They are basically cutting the pipe, THEN fitting something atop it. This might work, or it might not. I still believe they are stalling until August when the relief wells will drill into the source and be able to suck the oil out.

As for skimming for oil, at this point it's late in the game for that. The wonderful (poisonous) chemicals they added to the oil in an attempt to disperse it... have done so only to a certain extent. Now a lot of the Gulf has the consistency of a lava lamp, with oil globs floating around suspended in the water. This would be incredibly hard to skim.

[Bruno]

They are not just going to cap it this time. They are basically cutting the pipe, THEN fitting something atop it. This might work, or it might not. I still believe they are stalling until August when the relief wells will drill into the source and be able to suck the oil out.

As for skimming for oil, at this point it's late in the game for that. The wonderful (poisonous) chemicals they added to the oil in an attempt to disperse it... have done so only to a certain extent. Now a lot of the Gulf has the consistency of a lava lamp, with oil globs floating around suspended in the water. This would be incredibly hard to skim.

The saw blade is stuck in the pipe. Another fail

[torchbearer]

The saw blade is stuck in the pipe. Another fail

they could always mill it down instead of sawing. probably using robots which is a pain in the ass.

[Bucjason]

The reason they can't close it is because all the solutions they are coming up with involve a way to salvage the well. They want to be able to access the well again , because it contains so much oil ,and it is too valuable to lose ( even if it means destroying the environment ).

They could stop the flow TODAY by just boming it. Explosives have been used many times in the past to close out of control oil leaks , and it would work again.The well opening would cave in under explosives, and problem solved.

Problem is, that would mean the access to all that oil (i.e. money ) is gone forever , however. It would also mean all Obama's kick-backs from BP would end , which is why he won't order this to be done.

[torchbearer]

The reason they can't close it is because all the solutions they are coming up with involve a way to salvage the well. They want to be able to access the well again , because it contains so much oil ,and it is too valuable to lose ( even if it means destroying the environment ).

They could stop the flow TODAY by just boming it. Explosives have been used many times in the past to close out of control oil leaks , and it would work again.The well opening would cave in under explosives, and problem solved.

Problem is, that would mean the access to all that oil (i.e. money ) is gone forever , however. It would also mean all Obama's kick-backs from BP would end , which is why he won't order this to be done.

cutting the riser, like they are trying right now, would make it very difficult to use that well as drilled, ever again.
the riser, with safety valves are required for production of the well. they are cutting that part off.

[RCA]

Why can't they bomb it, then re-drill a new well? Am I just a simpleton?

[torchbearer]

Why can't they bomb it, then re-drill a new well? Am I just a simpleton?

simpleton.
they are planning to redrill the well to relieve the pressure. they are seriously trying to stop it from flowing right now.

[furface]

The relief wells will work, and most likely nothing else. They will take another 2 months. Anything that BP is doing between now and then is complete noise, PR.

http://www.bp.com/liveassets/bp_internet/globalbp/globalbp_uk_english/incident_response/STAGING/local_assets/downloads_pdfs/relief-well.pdf

[RCA]

simpleton.
they are planning to redrill the well to relieve the pressure. they are seriously trying to stop it from flowing right now.

But why not bomb it to stop the leak until new wells are drilled?

[torchbearer]

But why not bomb it to stop the leak until new wells are drilled?

how does that solve the problem?

[Bucjason]

RCA:

It's because BP knows that the government will never let anyone re-drill that deep after this debacle. Thier only hope is to seal and then repair the existing well they already own. The red-tape to build a new one would be endless and impossible.

[torchbearer]

no seriously, how the fuck does detonating an explosion fix the massive amount of natural gas pushing the crude up?

[Bucjason]

how does that solve the problem?

Because it stops the leak ..immediately , unlike these bullshit little robots and mud shots...

[RCA]

RCA:

It's because BP knows that the government will never let anyone re-drill that deep after this debacle. Thier only hope is to seal and then repair the existing well they already own. The red-tape to build a new one would be endless and impossible.

But aren't they already drilling relief wells?

[MelissaWV]

The saw blade is stuck in the pipe. Another fail

Excellent! The saw blade is obstructing the pipe then, right? All they need is about 2,000 more saw blades to put in their like a bad game of Kerplunk...

http://www.giftmonger.com/acatalog/retrogames_kerplunk2.jpg

[The Patriot]

I hate to blame it on Obama, and give the typical GOP party line statement, because there are other's involved in this f**kup. But the Federal Government totally screwed up by not letting the Louisiana Government build sand berms weeks ago.

While I don't think Obama wanted this to happen, he isn't sad it did. This is just an event that can be used to promote the green agenda and enrich not only the new green companies who will be getting a lot of government money for their projects, but also Goldman Sachs, who will be trading these carbon credits. Obama is more interested in this point at litigation against BP than stopping the oil spill.

[Bucjason]

It has been done before and it works. The soviets used to do it all the time. Watch the video on this link :

http://crooksandliars.com/david-neiwert/it-time-blow-leaking-gulf-oil-well-b

[MelissaWV]

I hate to blame it on Obama, and give the typical GOP party line statement, because there are other's involved in this f**kup. But the Federal Government totally screwed up by not letting the Louisiana Government build sand berms weeks ago.

While I don't think Obama wanted this to happen, he isn't sad it did. This is just an event that can be used to promote the green agenda and enrich not only the new green companies who will be getting a lot of government money for their projects, but also Goldman Sachs, who will be trading these carbon credits. Obama is more interested in this point at litigation against BP than stopping the oil spill.

It's most definitely something the Administration will use to their advantage, or at least to advance agendas. I still maintain that unless the GOP *gives* it away, Obama was set up to be a token, sacrificial one-termer. The GOP could still give it away.

Anyhow, I bolded "letting" because it's a sad commentary on our country and its mid-level leadership. I'm sorry, but if my state was facing a Level 11 FuckStorm like this, I would not be playing "Mother May I?" with the President. You won't let me build the sand berms? Okay, arrest me. AFTER I've built them. Go for it, Obama; I don't think you have the stones, and if you do, I'm a damned hero and I saved parts of the coast.

[Bucjason]

But aren't they already drilling relief wells?

Key word being "relief" well , not "new" well. They can do it under the guise of stopping the spill, but if the spill is already stopped it's no longer a state of emergency , and they'd have to go through all the normal red tape. Not to mention the new law Obama is bound to pass after this that bans offshore drilling.

[torchbearer]

Because it stops the leak ..immediately , unlike these bullshit little robots and mud shots...

when the guys in kuwait were putting out those oil well fires, i want you to notice what was still happening after the blew up the riser. notice in particularly that the crude was still shooting up in the air.all they did was make a crater at the top of a still open and gushing well. they didn't close it with explosives. you would have to shift earth, not remove it.

[Bruno]

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/national/leak_solution_Zw3RdLcmYcdsA4UAz6WMwM#ixzz0phF8fb9b

BP's engineers can't stop the gushing oil spill, but a young genius from Long Island says she found the solution in less time than it takes most people to finish a crossword puzzle.

Since the "top kill," "junk shot" and "top hat" techniques failed to end the environmental nightmare, Alia Sabur -- who started her engineering Ph.D. at age 14 -- is pushing for a more radical idea.

The Northport native, who started reading before she could walk and who at 18 broke a 300-year-old record to become the youngest-ever college professor, proposes surrounding a pipe with deflated automobile tires, inserting it into the leaking riser, and then inflating the wheels to form a seal.

She calls the plan the "seabed retread."

"It's not completely out there, considering that tires are used for everything and they're expected to withstand a lot," Sabur, 21, told The Post.

The idea came to her while watching television reports of the failed attempts to plug the hole last week, she said. And she had it all worked out in a just a few minutes, sketching it out on paper.

"I can't believe that at this point, with all our technology, that something like this can happen and devastate an entire area," she said. "Even at the smallest estimate, it's still a lot of oil."

Since BP's Deepwater Horizon rig exploded on April 20, more than 40 million gallons of crude have spilled into the Gulf.

Sabur, who is finishing her doctorate in engineering at Drexel University in Philadelphia, said it frustrated her that none of BP's solutions seemed to have any success.

The oil company has tried to drop containment domes over the leaks, but one missed its mark and the other got clogged with an icy mix of methane gas and water. It has also tried pumping mud, golf balls, tire scraps and other objects into the well to stop the flow.

"I figured experts would know more about it than I did but their ideas didn't work," she said. "So I started thinking about it."

The prodigy, who has received awards and fellowships from NASA and the Department of Defense, decided to take a different tack from BP's latest strategy, the "lower marine riser package," in which the riser pipe is cut and a housing is placed over it to collect the oil.

"This was a thought experiment," she said. "They tried covering it and now they're trying to block it, and it seems they are trying things that go on it or around it.

"I started thinking of something that goes inside it."

The tires might not be able to fully inflate inside the pipe, but the resulting seal would be able to stem the flow of oil and redirect it into a new pipe, she said. A valve in the pipe could be closed to block the oil or open to allow it to flow, presumably to a ship on the surface.

Sabur admitted that she's not certain the inflated tires would be enough to hold the new pipe in place.

"But if it works, then it might be possible to then put something on top of it -- to brace the inserted pipe -- to do something more permanent," she said. "Obviously, I hope that what they're doing now works. It's just absolutely terrible."

Even if her idea fails to stave off further catastrophe, Sabur has an amazing history.

At the age of 2, she started reading novels, and at 11 she played the clarinet with the Rockland Symphony Orchestra.

She hasn't yet been able to get her idea to BP, but thinks they should consider it if other efforts fail.

[torchbearer]

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/national/leak_solution_Zw3RdLcmYcdsA4UAz6WMwM#ixzz0phF8fb9b

BP's engineers can't stop the gushing oil spill, but a young genius from Long Island says she found the solution in less time than it takes most people to finish a crossword puzzle.

Since the "top kill," "junk shot" and "top hat" techniques failed to end the environmental nightmare, Alia Sabur -- who started her engineering Ph.D. at age 14 -- is pushing for a more radical idea.

snip.

how does she plan to get the tires and air pump down to the bottom of the gulf (at 5000ft). then how does she plan to get those tires "around" a broken riser without cutting off the safety valves(which they are trying to do right now with no luck). how do the tires cut off the flow if you could inflate them remotely?

everyone thinks they are geniuses when it comes to oil wells. even people who have never seen one.

[Bucjason]

everyone thinks they are geniuses when it comes to oil wells.

Including you apparently.


Blow the damn thing up already. It is proven to be the most effective way.

[Jordan]

The reason they can't close it is because all the solutions they are coming up with involve a way to salvage the well. They want to be able to access the well again , because it contains so much oil ,and it is too valuable to lose ( even if it means destroying the environment ).

They could stop the flow TODAY by just boming it. Explosives have been used many times in the past to close out of control oil leaks , and it would work again.The well opening would cave in under explosives, and problem solved.

Problem is, that would mean the access to all that oil (i.e. money ) is gone forever , however. It would also mean all Obama's kick-backs from BP would end , which is why he won't order this to be done.

I don't think that is the reason. That well brought in 5,000 barrels per day, or about $400,000 in daily revenue. I doubt $146 million in revenue each year is really THAT important to a firm that brings in roughly $300 billion a year in revenue.

[Bucjason]

Trust me , if they didn't need the revenue they would have just blown the fucker up on day 1 and saved themselves the P.R. disaster.

Does anyone actually think this latest attempt ...a giant pair of pruning shears , is actually going to work??

HAHA! yeah right. They are simply stalling . This is nothing but a dog and pony show to give them enough time to drill the new wells.

[torchbearer]

Trust me , if they didn't need the revenue they would have just blown the fucker up on day 1 and saved themselves the P.R. disaster.

Does anyone actually think this latest attempt ...a giant pair of pruning shears , is actually going to work??

HAHA! yeah right. They are simply stalling . This is nothing but a dog and pony show to give them enough time to drill the new wells.

well, let's see- you've just spent 3 months drilling at a cost of $500,000 dollars a day. what do you do? do you not owe it to your share holders to try and salvage the well so that you may recover at least some of the money?

[MsDoodahs]

It's being allowed to continue because it will help BOzo push cap and tax.

BP was real big into going green before this happened. Remember the whole "beyond petroleum" ad campaign?

How much do they stand to make from that arm of their business if cap and tax passes?

[Razmear]

I also agree that the leak could be stopped if they really wanted to. There was an article I read a week back or so that said BP was using long suction tubes near the leak to skim about 1 million gallons of oil so far. It was a news report and I probably have no chance of finding it again, and I doubt BP wants that factoid published.
My solution would be similar to the 'savants' idea, but more like an angioplasty. Put a 'balloon' over a small pipe, lower and insert pipe into hole, inflate balloon with cement or similar stuff, repeat til pipe is clogged.
Part two of my solution involved sending the BP CEO and board members to Gitmo til they get this thing plugged, maybe that will motivate them a bit.

Anyways, that's not why I bothered posting to this thread, I was checking Freedom's Phoenix and I see this headline:


Goldman Sachs Sold 44% of its BP stock THREE weeks before the Disaster

Now I understand coincidences can happen, but when those coincidences involve a quarter of a billion dollars I think the odds drop dramatically.
Here is the link to the FP article, basically a blurb with a link to the share holdings report.
http://www.freedomsphoenix.com/Find-Freedom.htm?At=0096522&From=News

I doubt the general public is going to get pissed about this til it starts raining oil on their nice clean cars come hurricane season, It seems the oil companies are keeping gas prices low to deflate any anger as well. There was no typical Memorial day spike here anyways.

K, done ranting, time to find coffee....
eb

[MsDoodahs]

I really HATE to think that BP and the BOzo gang along with the Goreish gang planned this leak but I swear, I know they're all a bunch of liars and theives, so the thought has crossed my mind.

[Ethek]

RCA:

It's because BP knows that the government will never let anyone re-drill that deep after this debacle. Thier only hope is to seal and then repair the existing well they already own. The red-tape to build a new one would be endless and impossible.

Ding Ding Ding.. uintended consequences of Gov regulations? Not that BP has acted responsibly. Detonating an explosive, even a small tactical nuclear weapon should have been an option as soon as this was out of anyone's control.

[MsDoodahs]

Ding Ding Ding.. uintended consequences of Gov regulations? Not that BP has acted responsibly. Detonating an explosive, even a small tactical nuclear weapon should have been an option as soon as this was out of anyone's control.

I heard someone speaking about that option yesterday and the thing is, the sea floor would crumble creating a HUGE opening for all the oil to gush out through hundreds...thousands...millions? of cracks.

It's some kind of rock...basalt maybe?

[Aratus]

its one heck of a big oil bubble...
it could go woosh up all at once?

[MelissaWV]

I really HATE to think that BP and the BOzo gang along with the Goreish gang planned this leak but I swear, I know they're all a bunch of liars and theives, so the thought has crossed my mind.

I thought of it myself, briefly, but I think that there would have been more convenient times for such a thing to happen, and I also believe that the Government is less likely to be behind certain types of incidents based on their response.

What I mean is that 9/11 being a Government-assisted job is *more likely* to me based on the "patriotism" rallying behind the President and the excuse to go to war(s) immediately after. The Government swooped in and was incredibly popular all of a sudden. Local government officials (Guiliani, etc.) became almost celebrity status and figured prominently in iconic pictures.

This thing doesn't have that feeling. The Government had no good plans to fix this, and their response was slow. If they were behind it, I think Obama would have been down there as soon as sheen was visible, and as soon as the first oil hit the shore, to babble on and on about this. There also would have been "solutions" proposed by Government, so that the people would remember that only Government can fix our problems. This is too much of a fuckup for me to believe it's likely the Government's fault.

[Razmear]

Stupidity is more dangerous than Terrorism.

[amonasro]

Not to worry everyone. James Cameron will save us.


'Titanic' director Cameron joins effort to plug Gulf spill (http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5ha9u6GXDyPYMHdsssGB97ZlgNi0g)


(AFP) – 1 day ago


WASHINGTON — Filmmaker James Cameron and another Canadian who built submersibles for the director's 1989 thriller "The Abyss" joined talks on Tuesday in Washington on innovative ways of capping the Gulf oil spill.

[MelissaWV]

Not to worry everyone. James Cameron will save us.

Do you know what's scariest? This is the plot of a South Park episode. When terrorists attacked our Imagination, they turned to all the filmmakers for help. Of course it was Mel Gibson, not James Cameron, who had the winning idea. Have we learned NOTHING?!

[LibForestPaul]

well, let's see- you've just spent 3 months drilling at a cost of $500,000 dollars a day. what do you do? do you not owe it to your share holders to try and salvage the well so that you may recover at least some of the money?
Or blowing it to save your shareholders from being sued in the billions of dollars. Wait, that is what congressional Bribes emm donations are for.

[Razmear]

Or blowing it to save your shareholders from being sued in the billions of dollars. Wait, that is what congressional Bribes emm donations are for.

They can only be sued for 75 million dollars due to damage caps. It's more profitable for them to let it leak and suck up what they can with skimmer pipes as they have already done more than 75mil in damage so there is no incentive to prevent more.



Section 1004 of the Oil Pollution Act (OPA), passed into law in August 1990 after the Exxon Valdez incident, limits the liability of holders of leases or permits for offshore facilities to $75 million per spill, plus removal costs.

http://www.dayontorts.com/miscellaneous-gulf-oil-spill-the-impact-of-damage-caps-will-be-felt-by-tens-of-thousands.html

eb

[torchbearer]

Or blowing it to save your shareholders from being sued in the billions of dollars. Wait, that is what congressional Bribes emm donations are for.

i'm not understanding people who believe setting off explosives is going to stop the leak. it won't, it will only make a crater at the top of the well.
I hope you don't go around saying this in public, it would be embarrassing.

[terryhamel]

Texas spawned Spillfighters (http://www.spillfighters.com) was invited to Louisiana to detail how their repository of field tested, natural oil eating microbes employed in calm waters can clean the Gulf Spill in 6 weeks. Even if the spill is never fixed (which is unlikely), the coastal regions CAN save it's environment.

[torchbearer]

Texas spawned Spillfighters (http://www.spillfighters.com) was invited to Louisiana to detail how their repository of field tested, natural oil eating microbes employed in calm waters can clean the Gulf Spill in 6 weeks. Even if the spill is never fixed (which is unlikely), the coastal regions CAN save it's environment.

good to hear.

[romacox]

It's being allowed to continue because it will help BOzo push cap and tax.

BP was real big into going green before this happened. Remember the whole "beyond petroleum" ad campaign?

How much do they stand to make from that arm of their business if cap and tax passes?
I think you may be making a good point.

1. Using microbes to clean up oil is a viable solution..But I am wondering why it is being ignored by BP and the administration. I highly doubt BP is unfamiliar with it. The ex president of Shell Oil has also publicly recommended sending a fleet of ships from all the oil companies to suck up the oil before it reaches the beaches. Why is this also being ignored?

2. For some time we have been financing companies moving out of the U.S. to form businesses in foreign countries. http://our-cyber-space.blogspot.com/search?q=general+motors (note: I linked to that article in May of 2009, but the date on the article has been changed to 2010. odd)

3. There is currently a proposed amendment to the "Financial Reform Bill" in Congress that amounts to a bail out for companies like BP and Walmart. Why? I do not know (haven't connected all the dots yet). But something smells fishy
http://biggovernment.com/capitolconfidential/2010/06/02/durbins-outrageous-bailout-for-bp/
(http://biggovernment.com/capitolconfidential/2010/06/02/durbins-outrageous-bailout-for-bp/)

4. On top of all of this, Obama has ordered the halt of all Gulf oil drilling even in shallow water. That is putting even more people in Louisiana out of work. Why?

[Number19]

I haven't been following this on the forum, this is the first thread I've read, but I've notice a point no one has mentioned in this thread and that has been in the news recently :

Obama is making the point, and double emphasizing it, that BP IS NOT in control and has not been from day1. "Make no mistake..." (my people) are in total control. BP cannot and has not done anything without our direction or approval (paraphrased, not a direct quote).

In another announcement, it was reported that BP execs were not even permitted in the planning sessions. The Coast Guard was directing these meetings.

Just something I find interesting because just the other day he also attacked BP for their lack of success.

There's comments about what should be done, but what I know is that this disaster is a first in this deep water environment. The engineers are learning a lot. It's hindsight and arm chair quarterbacking to say what might have been done to prepare for this ahead of time. I work in the petro-chemical industry and there's been a lot of office talk why hasn't this or that been tried. But we're just outsiders and we don't know. As pointed out, America has a lot of resources and ingenuity. The problem is finding ways to access this wealth of experience.

So who's fault is this? Who's in charge? We've had a failure in leadership and this is apparent in the comment about not letting Louisiana build the sand berms.