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Agorism
05-31-2010, 08:07 PM
http://news.antiwar.com/2010/05/31/turkey-future-gaza-aid-ships-will-have-military-escorts

CharlesTX
05-31-2010, 08:15 PM
Good for Turkey.

I can't believe the Israeli government is defending it's offensive actions as "defense". Hysterical.

angelatc
05-31-2010, 08:18 PM
This has the potential to be WW III. Turkey is a member of NATO.

speciallyblend
05-31-2010, 08:19 PM
Good for Turkey.

I can't believe the Israeli government is defending it's offensive actions as "defense". Hysterical.

If i were Turkey i would send a full armada with the next aid mission!! what the US and Israel are doing is disgusting!

Dr.3D
05-31-2010, 08:23 PM
Well, say goodbye to that military escort. Israel won't put up with it.

Agorism
05-31-2010, 08:35 PM
I don't think they should be to hasty to bite off more than they can chew.

Just saying. Sometimes it's best to take a step back.

CharlesTX
05-31-2010, 08:43 PM
I'd like to see what the rest of the world would do if Israel takes out a NATO Turkish military escort.

That could very well be the "Lusitania" that the world is waiting for.

Vessol
05-31-2010, 08:46 PM
Ugh..this is gonna get ugly >_<

DAFTEK
05-31-2010, 08:47 PM
I don't think they should be to hasty to bite off more than they can chew.

Just saying. Sometimes it's best to take a step back.

They can chew allot more then Israel can, i wouldn't be to worried about the Turkish military, they have friends in high places with bigger guns that are not afraid to use them... I am glad Turkey is fighting back and cant wait to hear what other countries will do. Israel is getting away with murder in this case as this boat was on international waters and had every right to be there, the Israeli military attacked them like pirates!!!!

jmdrake
05-31-2010, 08:51 PM
I'd like to see what the rest of the world would do if Israel takes out a NATO Turkish military escort.

That could very well be the "Lusitania" that the world is waiting for.

Israel will claim it was an "accident" like the U.S.S. Liberty.

YumYum
05-31-2010, 09:06 PM
This has the potential to be WW III. Turkey is a member of NATO.

So the line up for WWIII looks like this:

Turkey, Iran, Syria, Iraq, Lebanon, France, Eastern Europe, Sweden, Norway, Belgium, Denmark, Spain, Italy, North Korea and Greece.

versus

Israel, Beverly Hills, Miami Beach, Florida and New York City.

Vessol
05-31-2010, 09:11 PM
So the line up for WWIII looks like this:

Turkey, Iran, Syria, Iraq, Lebanon, France, Eastern Europe, Sweden, Norway, Belgium, Denmark, Spain, Italy, North Korea and Greece.

versus

Israel, Beverly Hills, Miami Beach, Florida and New York City.

My money is on the later.

CharlesTX
05-31-2010, 09:11 PM
so the line up for wwiii looks like this:

Turkey, iran, syria, iraq, lebanon, france, eastern europe, sweden, norway, belgium, denmark, spain, italy, north korea and greece.

Versus

israel, beverly hills, miami beach, florida and new york city.

lmao!

dr. hfn
05-31-2010, 09:14 PM
Turkey woot!

Agorism
05-31-2010, 09:15 PM
If U.S. is involved they all get mopped up.

Our military spending is larger than the rest of the world combined.

Also all our technology feeds into Israel. They can get back door military supplies and funding through various channels. I wouldn't be surprised to see Israel mop the tables in 1v1 with turkey.

Dr.3D
05-31-2010, 09:19 PM
If U.S. is involved they all get mopped up.

Our military spending is larger than the rest of the world combined.

Also all our technology feeds into Israel. They can get back door military supplies and funding through various channels. I wouldn't be surprised to see Israel mop the tables in 1v1 with turkey.

Neither would I. Israel can pretty much handle whatever comes it's way.

Agorism
05-31-2010, 09:19 PM
Also..

It seems we could reach a European consensus that more supplies need to be allowed in Gaza. Obama could agree to that rather than starting a new war.

DAFTEK
05-31-2010, 09:20 PM
Turkey woot!

Turkish F35 production to be expected by 2012 with 100 % Turkish suplies.
A picture of X35
http://homepage.eircom.net/~steven/images/jsfturjey.jpg

Turkey became the seventh international partner in the JSF Project, joining the United Kingdom, Italy, the Netherlands, Canada, Denmark and Norway. On 25 January 2007, Turkey signed a memorandum of understanding (MoU) for involvement in F-35 production. Turkey is expected to order 100 F-35A "CTOL/Air Force versions" at a reported cost of $11 billion.[57] It is reported that the aircraft will be produced under license in Turkey by Turkish Aerospace Industries (TAI).

Turkish Production of the F-35

A Letter of Intent (LOI) was signed between TAI and Northrop Grumman ISS (NGISS) International on 6 February 2007. With the LOI, TAI becomes the second source for the F-35 Lightning II center fuselage during the JSF Signing. The number of center fuselages to be produced by TAI will be determined depending on the number of F-35s Turkey will procure and the number of F-35s to be produced worldwide. The LOI represents a potential value in excess of $3 billion.[58]

TAI of Turkey is one of the only two International Suppliers to Northrop Grumman Corporation (the other being Denmark). On 10 December, 2007 the Turkish Aerospace Industries, Inc. (TAI) was authorized by Northrop Grumman Corporation to commence fabricating subassemblies for the first two F-35 production aircraft. The subassemblies – composite components and aircraft access doors – will be used in the F-35 center fuselage, a major section of the aircraft being produced by Northrop Grumman, a principal member of the Lockheed Martin-led F-35 global industry team.[59]

In February 2007, Northrop Grumman also signed a letter of intent with TAI to also make it a second source for producing F-35 center fuselages. Under that agreement, TAI will produce a "minimum" of 400 center fuselages starting during LRIP-2. Northrop Grumman currently produces all F-35 center fuselages at its F-35 assembly facility in Palmdale, Calif.

It is also anticipated that TAI after 2013 will also produce 100% of the F-35 under licence from Lockheed Martin Corporation, as was also the case with the F-16 Fighting Falcon program Peace Onyx I and II.

Turkey also intends to incorporate in the distant future several Turkish designed and manufactured electronic systems into the F-35 platform.

DAFTEK
05-31-2010, 09:23 PM
If U.S. is involved they all get mopped up.

Our military spending is larger than the rest of the world combined.

Also all our technology feeds into Israel. They can get back door military supplies and funding through various channels. I wouldn't be surprised to see Israel mop the tables in 1v1 with turkey.

So you say, opinionated & speculated view talking point...:rolleyes:

angelatc
05-31-2010, 09:27 PM
Ugh..this is gonna get ugly >_<

SO Turkey has more balls than the US did when Israel actually took out our ship. Good for them.

I keep wondering if Rand Paul will get suckered into commenting on this. I think the "Let the US stay out of it" answer would be popular, but I never know any more.

YumYum
05-31-2010, 09:27 PM
Don't we have a B-52 bomber base in Turkey?

eproxy100
05-31-2010, 09:28 PM
I don't know if Turkey has any Soviet/Russian weapons, but don't look down on those. The S-300 and Moskit, and many others, are superior to the NATO equivalents.

DAFTEK
05-31-2010, 09:29 PM
SO Turkey has more balls than the US did when Israel actually took out our ship. Good for them.

I keep wondering if Rand Paul will get suckered into commenting on this. I think the "Let the US stay out of it" answer would be popular, but I never know any more.

Agreed, i pray he is smart and wont fall into a trap..

angelatc
05-31-2010, 09:29 PM
So the line up for WWIII looks like this:

Turkey, Iran, Syria, Iraq, Lebanon, France, Eastern Europe, Sweden, Norway, Belgium, Denmark, Spain, Italy, North Korea and Greece.

versus

Israel, Beverly Hills, Miami Beach, Florida and New York City.

Yes, but who provides most of the military might for the majority of those countries up there?

And there's a huge faction of people who want WWIII to happen because they believe it means Jesus is finally going to return.

YumYum
05-31-2010, 09:30 PM
I don't know if Turkey has any Soviet/Russian weapons, but don't look down on those. The S-300 and Moskit, and many others, are superior to the NATO equivalents.

Yes, but the Israeli fighter jets are the best in the world.

DAFTEK
05-31-2010, 09:44 PM
I wonder if the German president resignation has anything to do with this event..


Turks march against Israeli attack

Israeli security forces fired tear gas at protesters in the occupied West Bank [AFP]
Thousands of people have taken to the streets in the Turkish city of Istanbul and around the world to denounce Israel over its attack on the convoy of Gaza-bound aid ships that left at least nine people dead.

Around 10,000 people marched from the Israeli consulate in Istanbul towards the city's main square shouting slogans and waving banners saying "Killer Israel".

Bulent Arinc, Turkey's deputy prime minister, said there were up to 400 Turks among those aboard the Mavi Maramara, the Turkish cruise vessel which was leading the so-called Freedom Flotilla.

Other demonstrations denouncing the Israeli raid have been held in many cities around the world, including the capitals of Syria, Jordan, Iraq, Lebanon and the UK.

Palestinians in the occupied West Bank clashed with Israeli security forces who responded with tear gas, injuring many people.

An emergency session of the United Nations Security Council is under way to discuss the matter.

Ban Ki-moon, the UN secretary-general, condemned Israel's actions and called for an investigation.

European anger

Pro-Palestinian campaigners marching in London spoke of their fears about the fate of British citizens aboard the flotilla.

Several hundreds activists blocked Whitehall, the main administrative area for the UK government, shouting "Free Palestine" and carrying flags and banners with slogans such as "Stop Israel's War Crimes in Gaza" and "End the Criminal Siege of Gaza".

Hundreds of protesters marched in London against the Israeli raid [Jacqueline Head]
Kate Hudson, chairwoman of the Campaign for Nuclear Disarmament (CND), who joined the demonstration, said: "Obviously we have great support for the humanitarian convoy which has gone there to try to bring relief to the people in Gaza.

"It is devastating and deplorable that the Israeli forces have attacked civilians on the flotilla.

"We have close friends on the boat on which people were killed and we are here waiting for news.

"We are trying to get through to them but we are not getting any answers."

Turkey, Egypt, Cyprus, Spain, Greece, Denmark and Sweden have all summoned the Israeli ambassadors in their respective countries to protest against the assault.

Greek police fired tear gas at demonstrators protesting outside the Israeli embassy in Athens after about 2,500 protesters rallied outside the building, chanting "Hands off Gaza".

In Paris, hundreds of protesters also clashed with police after charging at the Israeli embassy.

Police responded by firing tear gas, and some officers used police batons to beat back protesters.

Paris police headquarters said about 1,200 people had joined the demonstration.

Consulate stormed

Earlier on Monday, protesters in Istanbul attempted to storm the consulate, scaling over the compound's walls, but were blocked from going further by police.

Protests also took place in Ankara, the Turkish capital.

"Since the Gaza war [Turkish-Israeli] relations have nose-dived and it would be absolutely fair to say that this is the lowest point."

Anita McNaught, Al Jazeera correspondent

A charity in Turkey has said most of those killed in the raid on six ships in international waters were Turkish nationals.

Israel has advised its citizens to avoid travel to Turkey and instructed those already there to keep a low profile and avoid crowded downtown areas.

Arinc said that the nation would be cancelling three joint military exercises and recalling a youth football team from Israel.

Anita McNaught, Al Jazeera's correspondent in Istanbul, said relations between Israel and Turkey have deteriorated since Israel's recent war on Gaza.

"Up until that point they had ... a constructive military alliance and for many years they saw the issue of domestic terrorism as one they had to share information about," she said.

"But since the Gaza war relations have nose-dived and it would be absolutely fair to say that this is the lowest point."

International condemnation

Israeli forces stormed the flotilla, which was carrying 700 pro-Palestinian activists and 10,000 tonnes of aid, while they were 65km off the Gaza coast in international waters.

PEOPLE ON BOARD


Two Palestinians who are also members of Israeli parliament
Swedish author Henning Mankell (unharmed according to the Swedish foreign ministry)
Northern Irish Nobel peace prize laureate Mairead Maguire
Aengus Snodaigh, member of the Irish parliament
Irish writer and historian Fintan Lane
Three German parliamentarians

The action has brought widespread condemnation, with the EU foreign affairs chief demanding that Israeli authorities mount a "full inquiry" into the attack.

Catherine Ashton also reiterated a longstanding demand for "an immediate, sustained and unconditional opening of the crossings for the flow of humanitarian aid, commercial goods and persons to and from Gaza," a spokesman said.

France and the UN's Middle East envoy have also condemned the attack, while Greece suspended a military exercise with Israel and postponed a visit by Israel's air force chief.

There are about 700 activists on board the flotilla, included people from the US, Britain, Australia, Greece, Canada, Malaysia, Algeria, Serbia, Belgium, Ireland, Norway, Sweden and Kuwait.

The majority of people on the ships are from Turkey.

DAFTEK
05-31-2010, 09:46 PM
Haven't seen much talk about this...


German president quits over remarks

Koehler's resignation is expected to cause further problems for Chancellor Merkel (left) [AFP]
Horst Koehler, the German president, has unexpectedly resigned following criticism over comments he made about military action abroad.

He cited the fallout from a radio interview he gave following a visit to German troops in Afghanistan as the reason for the surprise move.

"I regret that my comments could lead to a misunderstanding about an important and difficult question for our nation," Koehler said in a statement on Monday.

He had said in the broadcast that, for a country with Germany's dependency on exports, military deployments could be "necessary ... in order to defend our
interests, for example free trade routes".

His remarks were taken by many as relating to Germany's unpopular mission in Afghanistan, although his office later said that he was referring to anti-piracy patrols off the coast of Somalia.

Koehler's resignation is likely to cause further problems for Angela Merkel, the German chancellor, who is already facing a euro zone debt crisis, sinking popularity and an increasingly awkward coalition partner.

Search for successor

Koehler, 67, a former head of the International Monetary Fund, had spoken out on the debt crisis enveloping the euro zone.

Now she will have to find a new and successful candidate for president.

Merkel's conservatives had backed Koehler, who was a year into his second term, for re-election by a special assembly last year.

Discussing Koehler's resignation, Thomas Kielinger, London correspondent of the German newspaper Die Welt, told Al Jazeera it "adds to the instability that we have in many areas of the political culture in my country.

"Does it add to the embarrassment of Merkel? Only to the degree that he is a member of the CDU, and he was given the job of president after a finally balanced poll five years ago, which said it was the time for a member of the conservative party to be president".

Political sensitivity.

The role of president is largely symbolic, but the row leading to Koehler's resignation underscores the sensitivity of military issues in Germany even 65 years after the end of the second world war.

"We had a hard time rationalizing and defending the deployment of German troops because my country, after the Hitler experience, has become largely a pacifist nation," Kielinger, the Die Welt journalist, said.

"It's not certain whether the conservative party is entitled to find a replacement. [The resignation] throws the possibility of who might succeed Koehler wide open. It's totally unpredictable."

A new German president must be elected within 30 days.

A special Federal Assembly, made up of all the members of parliament and an equal number of delegates sent by the 16 state assemblies, elects German presidents.

RSLudlum
05-31-2010, 09:57 PM
Yes, but who provides most of the military might for the majority of those countries up there?



Interesting facts to consider...

US Treasury Holdings:

Turkey: $29 billion
Israel: $22 billion

http://www.ustreas.gov/tic/mfh.txt
(who aren't we in debt to??)

US arms aid to Turkey up to 80-99 = $11.5 billion
http://www.fas.org/asmp/profiles/turkey_fmschart.htm


Anybody have any recent numbers on total aid we've given to Turkey in the past decade? I imagine it's been quite abit since the invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan.




U.S. WEAPONS AT WAR 2005:
PROMOTING FREEDOM OR FUELING CONFLICT?
U.S. Military Aid and Arms Transfers Since September 11

Military Aid and Weapons
As a member of NATO and Washington’s ally in the war on terrorism, Turkey is the third largest recipient of U.S. military aid, behind Israel and Egypt. Between 1994 and 2004, it received well over $1.3 billion in FMF and another $21.4 million in IMET.[224] Congress granted another $33 million in FMF and $4 million in IMET in 2005. The President’s request for 2006 is more modest-- $25 million in FMF and $3 million in IMET.[225]
In the midst of a thirty-year plan to modernize its military, Turkey purchases an enormous quantity of weapons and other military equipment from the United States. Between 1994 and 2003, Turkey took delivery of more than $6.8 billion in U.S. weaponry and services.[226]

Turkey and Iraq
Throughout the course of the U.S.-led war against Iraq, military relations between the U.S. and Turkey have been strained. Ankara was unwilling to allow use of Turkish territory as a Northern front for intervention into Iraq and refused the U.S. military access to its Incirlik base. This was a shocking reversal as the U.S. had the privilege of using this base for the past 50 years.

Recently, Ankara has been more amenable to Washington’ s requests, and the two countries are discussing housing 72 F-16 fighter planes on the base. According to a senior Turkish military official, "the bottom line is that we will gain nothing by rejecting the U.S. request. Plus a failure to accommodate the request could be unnecessarily costly. So Turkey’s final response should be a yes."[227]

http://www.worldpolicy.org/projects/arms/reports/wawjune2005.html#15

RM918
05-31-2010, 10:00 PM
If U.S. is involved they all get mopped up.

Our military spending is larger than the rest of the world combined.

Also all our technology feeds into Israel. They can get back door military supplies and funding through various channels. I wouldn't be surprised to see Israel mop the tables in 1v1 with turkey.

This is a movement dedicated to fight the excesses of big government, under the pretext that it oppresses freedom and it doesn't work. Do you really think our military is worth, dollar for dollar, that of every other country and that it is the ONLY branch of government mismanagement where more money = better magically works? I find that hard to believe.

sratiug
05-31-2010, 10:07 PM
Well, say goodbye to that military escort. Israel won't put up with it.

Aren't we obligated to retaliate against Israel if that happens? We have no treaties with Israel, they are not our allies. The turks are. In fact. Aren't we obligated to retaliate now?

virgil47
05-31-2010, 10:07 PM
My question is who gave the Turks the right to stick their noses into this mess. Or for that matter who gave the members of the "so called" relief convoy the right to interfere. The members of the convoy should not have been interfering in the business of other countries. At least that's what most of those on this forum advocate. If they had minded there own business no one would have been hurt or killed. Now let's here how this is different and it's ok for these bottom feeders to poke their noses into other peoples business.

Agorism
05-31-2010, 10:09 PM
Yes because we spend it much on R and D. North Korea has a million man army but all they do is feed and shelter it.

The other countries are all divided up. It's why we were able to NASA but they weren't, which is kind of a military project in many senses.

speciallyblend
05-31-2010, 10:12 PM
Yes, but who provides most of the military might for the majority of those countries up there?

And there's a huge faction of people who want WWIII to happen because they believe it means Jesus is finally going to return.

i have actually heard right-wing gop Christians say this in their explaining the undeclared wars in the name of god!! CRAZY, this is the neo-con wing of brainwashed republicans! this is the wing of the gop that needs to be shut up asap!!

LibertyWorker
05-31-2010, 10:12 PM
If U.S. is involved they all get mopped up.

Our military spending is larger than the rest of the world combined.

Also all our technology feeds into Israel. They can get back door military supplies and funding through various channels. I wouldn't be surprised to see Israel mop the tables in 1v1 with turkey.

We been mopping up for 10 years and still can't get out of Iraq or Afghanistan.

speciallyblend
05-31-2010, 10:13 PM
My question is who gave the Turks the right to stick their noses into this mess. Or for that matter who gave the members of the "so called" relief convoy the right to interfere. The members of the convoy should not have been interfering in the business of other countries. At least that's what most of those on this forum advocate. If they had minded there own business no one would have been hurt or killed. Now let's here how this is different and it's ok for these bottom feeders to poke their noses into other peoples business.

turkish aid ship!!! no one interefered except the idf and israel when they violated international law!! virgil what right did israel have boarding a private aid ship in international waters??

Dr.3D
05-31-2010, 10:16 PM
Aren't we obligated to retaliate against Israel if that happens? We have no treaties with Israel, they are not our allies. The turks are. In fact. Aren't we obligated to retaliate now?

It won't play that way. Israel will be on the defensive and claim to be just defending it's coastline. It will be Turkey that will be called the aggressor and thus there wouldn't be any kind of retaliation needed.

One must look at the situation as to who is in the area where they don't belong? Obviously Turkey has no business being in that area.

If the U.S. were to be doing what Turkey claims it is going to do, then the U.S. ships would end up under attack. It's about who's territory is being invaded.

I'm sure those boats would sooner or later end up being inside of the territorial waters of Israel and that is when they would run into problems.

speciallyblend
05-31-2010, 10:18 PM
It won't play that way. Israel will be on the defensive and claim to be just defending it's coastline. It will be Turkey that will be called the aggressor and thus there wouldn't be any kind of retaliation needed.

One must look at the situation as to who is in the area where they don't belong? Obviously Turkey has no business being in that area.

If the U.S. were to be doing what Turkey claims it is going to do, then the U.S. ships would end up under attack. It's about who's territory is being invaded.

I'm sure those boats would sooner or later end up being inside of the territorial waters of Israel and that is when they would run into problems.

why not board the ship in territoral waters instead of international waters?? then they would of had an argument!

Dr.3D
05-31-2010, 10:22 PM
why not board the ship in territoral waters instead of international waters?? then they would of had an argument!

Perhaps they were trying to avoid that argument by trying to dissuade them from entering territorial waters. From what I understand, they were advising those boats to turn back before entering territorial waters and came under attack at that time. This is why the U.S. is trying to gather the facts of the circumstances of the situation before making any kind of hasty decision about what stance it should take.

fj45lvr
05-31-2010, 10:23 PM
It's about friggin time that people in the region helped Palestine with some balls.

too bad other "turkeys" didn't help the American Indian, aborigines, Maoris, Africans, etc. and etc.


Hopefully the follow through with it and break this immoral seige on Gaza and its people that have UNALIENABLE RIGHTS....not granted by any government (even their corrupt HAMAS thugs!!!)

Imaginos
05-31-2010, 10:27 PM
So the line up for WWIII looks like this:

Turkey, Iran, Syria, Iraq, Lebanon, France, Eastern Europe, Sweden, Norway, Belgium, Denmark, Spain, Italy, North Korea and Greece.

versus

Israel, Beverly Hills, Miami Beach, Florida and New York City.
:D

sratiug
05-31-2010, 10:29 PM
My question is who gave the Turks the right to stick their noses into this mess. Or for that matter who gave the members of the "so called" relief convoy the right to interfere. The members of the convoy should not have been interfering in the business of other countries. At least that's what most of those on this forum advocate. If they had minded there own business no one would have been hurt or killed. Now let's here how this is different and it's ok for these bottom feeders to poke their noses into other peoples business.

If the Zionists had left Palestine alone a hundred years ago Israel wouldn't exist and none of this would have ever happened.

LibertyWorker
05-31-2010, 10:31 PM
It's about friggin time that people in the region helped Palestine with some balls.

too bad other "turkeys" didn't help the American Indian, aborigines, Maoris, Africans, etc. and etc.


Hopefully the follow through with it and break this immoral seige on Gaza and its people that have UNALIENABLE RIGHTS....not granted by any government (even their corrupt HAMAS thugs!!!)

to bad other "turkeys" were not around when the Armenian Genocide was going on.......o never mind that was Turkey committing genocide.... never-mind.

Warrior_of_Freedom
05-31-2010, 10:33 PM
world war 3
world war 3
world war 3
over jews, again

fj45lvr
05-31-2010, 10:40 PM
to bad other "turkeys" were not around when the Armenian Genocide was going on.......o never mind that was Turkey committing genocide.... never-mind.


good one. Let's hope things have changed but dealing with humans--not likely.

virgil47
05-31-2010, 10:42 PM
If the Zionists had left Palestine alone a hundred years ago Israel wouldn't exist and none of this would have ever happened.

Well the same could be said of the crusades. If the Christians hadn't back off there might not be any Muslims and this wouldn't have happened. All you have is the same old "woulda, coulda, shoulda" argument. If the blockade runners had minded their own business there would have been no confrontation and there fore no one would have been hurt. Oh, and if Hammas hadn't been on the 6th ship in force this certainly wouldn't have happened.

pvnole89
05-31-2010, 10:45 PM
I'm smoking a Camel in solidarity. I have always been one to give the benefit of the doubt to Israel, but this attack was absolutely despicable!!!! Between this and the issues in Korea, shit is starting to get scary for the first time really since the end of the cold war. I need to get working on that hideout in Costa Rica.

BlackTerrel
05-31-2010, 10:45 PM
I'd like to see what the rest of the world would do if Israel takes out a NATO Turkish military escort.

That could very well be the "Lusitania" that the world is waiting for.

Why is the rest of the world waiting for this?

I thought we were non-interventionists? Now we have people salivating over WWIII.

BTW nothing is actually going to happen. People will talk tough but no one wants to risk their own peoples lives. But it is interesting seeing the reactions of some of the "non-interventionists" on here.

puppetmaster
05-31-2010, 10:48 PM
Well the same could be said of the crusades. If the Christians hadn't back off there might not be any Muslims and this wouldn't have happened. All you have is the same old "woulda, coulda, shoulda" argument. If the blockade runners had minded their own business there would have been no confrontation and there fore no one would have been hurt. Oh, and if Hammas hadn't been on the 6th ship in force this certainly wouldn't have happened.

you crack me up v

Inflation
05-31-2010, 10:52 PM
Yes, but the Israeli fighter jets are the best in the world.

Remember the time, before Pakistan suddenly went nuclear, when Mossad was "the best in the world?"

Remember the time, before Hezbollah kicked their butt out of Lebanon, when IDF was "the best in the world?"

As a non-interventionist US taxpayer, I can't wait to see a major source of trouble and expense get taken out.

RedStripe
05-31-2010, 10:52 PM
http://bit.ly/c9Ubeh

speciallyblend
05-31-2010, 11:17 PM
Perhaps they were trying to avoid that argument by trying to dissuade them from entering territorial waters. From what I understand, they were advising those boats to turn back before entering territorial waters and came under attack at that time. This is why the U.S. is trying to gather the facts of the circumstances of the situation before making any kind of hasty decision about what stance it should take.

legally they should of waited to have legal means to board them , so they chose to ignore international law?? and board a private ship in international waters!!

did they have an interpol warrant?? or permission from the turks to board?? if not then it seems to be the law breakers are the idf and israel!

Dr.3D
05-31-2010, 11:24 PM
legally they should of waited to have legal means to board them , so they chose to ignore international law?? and board a private ship in international waters!!

did they have an interpol warrant?? or permission from the turks to board?? if not then it seems to be the law breakers are the idf and israel!

Perhaps you are correct. Myself, I don't have all of the facts in the matter and neither does the U.S. government, and thus they have waited till they can gather the facts before making any kind of statement.

I won't be able to ascertain who was at fault till I know the facts of the matter and perhaps I will never know the facts, as it seems they usually have a way of becoming distorted because of politics. I guess time will tell... then again, it may not.

speciallyblend
05-31-2010, 11:29 PM
Well the same could be said of the crusades. If the Christians hadn't back off there might not be any Muslims and this wouldn't have happened. All you have is the same old "woulda, coulda, shoulda" argument. If the blockade runners had minded their own business there would have been no confrontation and there fore no one would have been hurt. Oh, and if Hammas hadn't been on the 6th ship in force this certainly wouldn't have happened.

bottom line the Israelis boarded a Turkish aid ship illegally and did so without legal authority!! they should of waited for them to enter legal waters

maybe we should go 7 miles into mexico and start busting down doors and shooting folks!! and violating laws!! we already violate our own constitution. lets screw all laws!!

speciallyblend
05-31-2010, 11:30 PM
Perhaps you are correct. Myself, I don't have all of the facts in the matter and neither does the U.S. government, and thus they have waited till they can gather the facts before making any kind of statement.

I won't be able to ascertain who was at fault till I know the facts of the matter and perhaps I will never know the facts, as it seems they usually have a way of becoming distorted because of politics. I guess time will tell... then again, it may not.

that i can agree on!!

virgil47
05-31-2010, 11:31 PM
you crack me up v

The truth can be humorous at times. However the facts are plain to see. Five of the ships did not raise a fuss as they were aware that they were trying to run a blockade but the sixth ship was indeed salted with Hammas terrorists trying to make waves.

HOLLYWOOD
05-31-2010, 11:34 PM
The best thing to happen, would be for nations to unite and send a coalition of escorts and aid ships in a huge armada to peacefully deliver badly needed aid to GAZA. (of course the US won't be part of it since AIPAC runs US foreign operations/polices.

If the Zionist Sociopaths running Israel want to take on multiple nations... then let the fireworks begin. GAME ON!

DAFTEK
05-31-2010, 11:35 PM
The truth can be humorous at times. However the facts are plain to see. Five of the ships did not raise a fuss as they were aware that they were trying to run a blockade but the sixth ship was indeed salted with Hammas terrorists trying to make waves.

Stop spreading misinformation on this forum. The bullshit is starting to stink from Israel to the USA.

speciallyblend
05-31-2010, 11:38 PM
The truth can be humorous at times. However the facts are plain to see. Five of the ships did not raise a fuss as they were aware that they were trying to run a blockade but the sixth ship was indeed salted with Hammas terrorists trying to make waves.

yeah screw international law!! let's all invade virgil's house at 4 am;) see if he fights back??

angelatc
05-31-2010, 11:39 PM
Stop spreading misinformation on this forum. The bullshit is starting to stink from Israel to the USA.

The thought that they were smuggling in terrorists is so absolutely hysterical I can't believe the disinfo agents can type it so vehemently.

"Hey Mo, let's put all the terrorists on the last ship."
"Great idea, Achmad! No doubt the soldiers will be too tired to search after the 5th ship"

God knows there's a shortage of terrorists in Gaza.

DAFTEK
05-31-2010, 11:39 PM
The best thing to happen, would be for nations to unite and send a coalition of escorts and aid ships in a huge armada to peacefully deliver badly needed aid to GAZA.

If the Zionist Sociopaths of Israel want to take on multiple nations... then let the fireworks begin. GAME ON!

I think we will see many nations step up to the plate this time, from Brazil to China.

angelatc
05-31-2010, 11:43 PM
I think we will see many nations step up to the plate this time, from Brazil to China.

And we'll be forced to listen to how everybody in the whole world is wrong. Except us and Israel.

DAFTEK
05-31-2010, 11:43 PM
My biggest problem in all of this is we still give Israel BILLION$$$$$$$ I hope Obama spanks Israel this time and cut of the aid. I might actually start to give him the benefit of the doubt but i wont get my hopes up to high as the Zionist machine power grabbing in washington is out of control...

Pauls' Revere
05-31-2010, 11:54 PM
So the line up for WWIII looks like this:

Turkey, Iran, Syria, Iraq, Lebanon, France, Eastern Europe, Sweden, Norway, Belgium, Denmark, Spain, Italy, North Korea and Greece.

versus

Israel, Beverly Hills, Miami Beach, Florida and New York City.

LOL

all the while China and Russia laugh and watch as we drop bombs on each other.

p.s. You forgot Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Venezuela, and Cuba.

angelatc
05-31-2010, 11:59 PM
My biggest problem in all of this is we still give Israel BILLION$$$$$$$ I hope Obama spanks Israel this time and cut of the aid. I might actually start to give him the benefit of the doubt but i wont get my hopes up to high as the Zionist machine power grabbing in washington is out of control...

Yes, the only positive thing about him was that perhaps his foreign policy wouldn't be so hawkish, but he hasn't done anything to make me think I was right about that yet.

Still, I wouldn't complain if he stayed out of this mess.

Pauls' Revere
06-01-2010, 12:04 AM
SO Turkey has more balls than the US did when Israel actually took out our ship. Good for them.

I keep wondering if Rand Paul will get suckered into commenting on this. I think the "Let the US stay out of it" answer would be popular, but I never know any more.

Perhaps the unpopular view is the one which needs the most attention. Afterall we all know what the typical response is.


Albert Einstein: "We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them."

CheezItsRule
06-01-2010, 12:24 AM
legally they should of waited to have legal means to board them , so they chose to ignore international law?? and board a private ship in international waters!!

did they have an interpol warrant?? or permission from the turks to board?? if not then it seems to be the law breakers are the idf and israel!

I hate playing the devil's advocate here but isn't Israel within its rights under the San Remo manual 67(a)?
This is not a moral question...just a legal one.:confused:

Liberty Star
06-01-2010, 03:42 AM
Could Obama send US military to escort aid ships to Palestinian civilians?
US needs a leader who can protect US economic and military interests without getting into a direct costly war with Israel.


CUFI founder Pastor Hagee criticizes US Military says "we are racing toward end of time"

By Stephen K. Ryan April 24, 2010

"We are racing toward the end of time."\We are living in a very dangerous time. The World Net Daily Intelligence Report states that the U.S. Military will take a posture in the West Bank and the Gaza Strip. It's unbelievable! Pastor Hagee April 5, 2010


Pastor Hagee friend of Presidents and US Senators earlier this month confirmed his strong opposition to General Patraeous's new policies towards the Palestinian/Israel conflict. General Patraeous has suggested recent Israeli policies regarding the expansion of settlements in East Jerusalem is tangentially putting US soldiers at risk in Afghanistan and Iraq.

This new focus by the United States armed forces has led to heated debate inside the White House.






23/04/2007

U.S. had emergency plan for attacking Israel in 1967

By Amir Oren, Haaretz Correspondent

For some time, the United States had had an emergency plan to attack Israel, a plan updated just prior to the 1967 war, aimed at preventing Israel from expanding westward, into Sinai, or eastward, into the West Bank.



http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/851708.html

nobody's_hero
06-01-2010, 03:55 AM
We shouldn't be in the business of giving aid to any country. (1. It makes no sense to borrow from a foreign country and then give that same country aid. 2. It's unconstitutional to appropriate spending to things that in no way benefit the 'general welfare' of the American people).

devil21
06-01-2010, 05:03 AM
world war 3
world war 3
world war 3
over jews, again

I see a trend. Also note that the same defense contractors, Northrup Gruman et al, are supplying weapons tech to both sides, again. Guess who bankrolls the defense industry? The banks. Rinse and fucking repeat. Over and over. No wonder TJ warned against standing armies and central banks! Dwight Eisenhower warned against the military industrial complex. George Washington warned against entangling alliances!

DO WE EVER FUCKING LEARN ANY LESSONS FROM HISTORY?

This situation will probably be the catalyst for WW3. We've known it was coming.


Perhaps the unpopular view is the one which needs the most attention. Afterall we all know what the typical response is.

Albert Einstein: "We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them."

Also known as Einstein's definition of insanity. Doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.

devil21
06-01-2010, 05:06 AM
I hate playing the devil's advocate here but isn't Israel within its rights under the San Remo manual 67(a)?
This is not a moral question...just a legal one.:confused:

Ugh. This again? Read that same manual farther where is specifically exempts declared humanitarian aid vessels.

It's the same reason you can't bomb Red Cross ambulances. But yeah Israel does that too.

libertarian4321
06-01-2010, 05:21 AM
So the line up for WWIII looks like this:

Turkey, Iran, Syria, Iraq, Lebanon, France, Eastern Europe, Sweden, Norway, Belgium, Denmark, Spain, Italy, North Korea and Greece.

versus

Israel, Beverly Hills, Miami Beach, Florida and New York City.

Sweden? Norway? Denmark?

If you think those nations (and the other European nations) are going to go to war with Israel (and potentially the USA) over a few dead "relief workers" you are out of your mind.

Sweden, Denmark, and Norway aren't the USA, folks, they are VERY pacifist. Their idea of taking action is a strongly worded diplomatic letter.

LibertyBrews
06-01-2010, 06:12 AM
Sweden? Norway? Denmark?

If you think those nations (and the other European nations) are going to go to war with Israel (and potentially the USA) over a few dead "relief workers" you are out of your mind.

Sweden, Denmark, and Norway aren't the USA, folks, they are VERY pacifist. Their idea of taking action is a strongly worded diplomatic letter.

Both Norway and Denmark have troops in Afghanistan, Denmark also had troops in Iraq, they're not pacifist, they're lapdogs for the US, partners in our aggressive nation building policy.

angelatc
06-01-2010, 06:27 AM
I hate playing the devil's advocate here but isn't Israel within its rights under the San Remo manual 67(a)?
This is not a moral question...just a legal one.:confused:

No, because humanitarian ships are specifically exempted.

angelatc
06-01-2010, 06:29 AM
Sweden, Denmark, and Norway aren't the USA, folks, they are VERY pacifist. Their idea of taking action is a strongly worded diplomatic letter.

How soon we forget. Denmark has drawn political fire for its strong cartoon messages.